Lockheed Harpoon, Ventura, and Lodestar - Native

[gaab]

Milton,

Gerard,
Also, with all the tank options, the Harpoon is set up so that all tanks feed the center tanks from where the engines are directly fed via engine-driven pumps. OF course, booster pumps are available as needed. Secondly, fuel may be pumped from any tank to any engine.
So, generally, the fuel system feeds are automatic and transfers are only necessary in the event of pump, line, tank, or engine failures.

In order to have fuel tanks selected whatever default flight setting, I have added

	<Keys>
		 <On Event="TOGGLE_PRIMER1">
			 1 (>K:FUEL_SELECTOR_ALL)
		 </On>
		 <On Event="TOGGLE_PRIMER2">
			 1 (>K:FUEL_SELECTOR_2_ALL)
		 </On>
	</Keys>

in one of the Vcockpit01 gauge (Cabin Lights, because it is a simple one..)

It is a simple way to insure proper vc start to everybody.

Gérard

[Milton Shupe]

Hi Milton
Not sure if this is something to look at but a couple of times during takeoff i have noticed that with the tail wheel lock on I don't have enough rudder authority to keep the airplane centered on the runway despite using full differential braking. There may have been a 10 - 15 knot crosswind during these takeoffs but it might be something to think about before the final version and of course if anyone else has experienced this. I'm using P3D V4.2 with FXRealWXPro.
Thanks
Warren

In the real world of course, one would use differential throttle to control these take offs.
Since most here do not have the that ability, I guess, I will decrease the torque to make it more manageable.

Hi Milton
I'm back again.
A while back I mentioned having difficulty seeing the pitch controls in the night lit cockpit. In fact there are several controls with which I have this difficulty and they include the carb heat and sometimes the tail wheel lock. Might be worth a look before the final version.
Thanks
Warren

The night lighting throughout the cockpit has been updated.

I have notice that, also. It seems the handles of those levers blend into the console when looking at them from certain angles. At those times I rely on a keyboard stroke or two.

All taken care some time ago.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

[aspen31]

Hi Milton
Always possible that my own technique is at fault regarding the takeoff. I wouldn't change the torque on my account. I'll try some additional takeoffs and see if I can improve.
Thanks
Warren

[aspen31]

Hi Milton
Have to confess I forgot about torque factor in these airplanes - tried a few more takeoffs and on a reasonably wide runway and applying power judiciously I was able to better manage the roll - all in all my fault - no adjustments necessary.
Thanks
Warren

[Milton Shupe]

Hi Milton
Have to confess I forgot about torque factor in these airplanes - tried a few more takeoffs and on a reasonably wide runway and applying power judiciously I was able to better manage the roll - all in all my fault - no adjustments necessary.
Thanks
Warren

Warren,

Regarding applying power properly, attached is a small video of the Howard 500 takeoff and climb. It starts as they taxi into position, then at about 15 seconds in, you will see the throttles being moved forward. You see a small application and a pause ensuring the aircraft is direction-ally oriented properly, then a very slow, smooth application over 15-20 seconds completing just before rotation.

That seems long to me, and as I recall, the pilot told me it should take 12 seconds to ease the throttle forward in a smooth steady application.

[fliger747]

Indeed there would be limitations for crosswind takeoffs. In that era a lot of technique was passed down by word of mouth. As far as any FS taildragger and especially real world ones, judicious application of throttle is quite essential, there will be a point at which the rudders become effective and one can begin adding more power, you will feel this as finally being able to slack of on the rudder, then more power can be added till further in the takeoff run one achieves a rudder/trim condition that will be stable in initial climb. It is essential that a proper rudder trim setting be applied prior to takeoff initiation.

Typically one might not have full power applied till you have maybe 45-50 knots airspeed. Indeed asymmetric power application is easier and often using a little wrist action rather than a lot of leg muscle. I at one time had a nice multi throttle joystick and even in the sim an elegant technique.

Cheers: Tom

[aspen31]

Hi all
Interesting video. In my limited experience with similar airplanes (Beech 18) I only remember having to stand on the appropriate brake to keep straight - of course dealing with far less power. Easing the power on in the PV2 in fact makes the take off fairly realistic and the whole package quite immersive
Thanks
Warren

[r678idtyj]

Would it be possible to set the VC windows material to be visible from the inside? Somehow I always found the full transparency from the vc a bit odd.
Old Plexiglas should at the very least remind you it's there.

That's of course assuming that there are polys there, if not, well it's not that big a deal.

[Milton Shupe]

Would it be possible to set the VC windows material to be visible from the inside? Somehow I always found the full transparency from the vc a bit odd.
Old Plexiglas should at the very least remind you it's there.

That's of course assuming that there are polys there, if not, well it's not that big a deal.

Of course, easy to do. My experience has been that most prefer a clear view.

The key is to not use exterior or moving reflections. I put interior windows in some aircraft, like the Mallards that also have some barely visible imperfections, and no one complained. :-)

Like to hear from others on this.

[MZee1960]

Of course, easy to do. My experience has been that most prefer a clear view.

The key is to not use exterior or moving reflections. I put interior windows in some aircraft, like the Mallards that also have some barely visible imperfections, and no one complained. :-)

Like to hear from others on this.

+1000 !

After downloading and installing Aerosoft's beautiful twotter extended, the first thing I did was spend the next several days (yes .... days !) surfing the web for a 'solution' to the hazy, dusty appearance of the glass from the VC which made everything seem as if the windows were a bit fogged up. Then I finally came across a file which portrayed the glass transparency back as clean and clear, with just a few small 'dust droplets' here and there ! Now I can finally see all the scenery I paid hundreds of $'s for in it's glory while flying one of my favourite STOL AC's .

[Jafo]

I go to great pains to add glass to the 2D panels I do....just to add some semblance of realism....to make you feel like you are inside the plane, not sitting on a wing somewhere...

So for me....give me some indication of VC glass....every time....just not too much that you're wiping your hand over the monitor to see where you are going....or what you're about to run into...

[thefrog]

I would definitely always like to see some indication that there is glass in the vc - it only needs to be very subtle, either some reflection, scratches or spots of dirt. Otherwise, without anything, it seems unrealistic like there is no glass in the windows. People argue that in real life the windows are spotless, but this isn't real life and we need all the visual cues we can get to produce a feeling of immersion from a 2D monitor.

[wombat666]

I know this is FSX but after the first test flight in P3Dv4 I decided a couple of screenies might be in order.
Flying out of Stockholm early evening and IMHO looking good.
And FWIW, I too like ever so slightly grubby glazing, RealAir do it just right with their Beech 60 Turbo Duke.

[J.Case]

Gerard,

Thanks for your comments.

I do not have proper fuel tank selectors and fuel transfer capabilities as I do not have a gauge programmer.
None of the default xml code matches up with the Harpoon.

In FSXA, I did go to the Beaver and turn OFF fuel.
I came back to the Harpoon and used cntrl+e to start without issues so that obviously turns on fuel to ALL.

From there, fuel usage uses the standard MS fuel tank usage sequence.

Maybe you have P3D and that works differently?

EDIT: Also, with all the tank options, the Harpoon is set up so that all tanks feed the center tanks from where the engines are directly fed via engine-driven pumps. OF course, booster pumps are available as needed. Secondly, fuel may be pumped from any tank to any engine.

So, generally, the fuel system feeds are automatic and transfers are only necessary in the event of pump, line, tank, or engine failures.

Does someone have any information on just how the Fuelsystem is supposed to work ?

[Bjoern]

Does someone have any information on just how the Fuelsystem is supposed to work ?

Open valve, turn on associated fuel pump?

[Milton Shupe]

Does someone have any information on just how the Fuelsystem is supposed to work ?

Yes, I do in the Pilot's Operating Handbook.

I uploaded it for you.
Starts on page 18 I think.

http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...tsHandbook.zip

[gaab]

After downloading and installing Aerosoft's beautiful twotter extended, the first thing I did was spend the next several days (yes .... days !) surfing the web for a 'solution' to the hazy, dusty appearance of the glass from the VC which made everything seem as if the windows were a bit fogged up. Then I finally came across a file which portrayed the glass transparency back as clean and clear, with just a few small 'dust droplets' here and there ! Now I can finally see all the scenery I paid hundreds of $'s for in it's glory while flying one of my favourite STOL AC's .

Would you accept to share this file for the vc glass. I am missing this same "fix".


Gérard

[MZee1960]

Hi Gerard,

No problem.
I came across this by chance after I downloaded some of Hani's beautiful repaints and found out his repaints had the clean glass I liked so much.
Go to this site (or any of the other sites he has listed at this location) : http://hanimichal.wixsite.com/myaddonsfsx
Download the 'Susi Air' livery for the Twin Otter DHC-6 300 Wheel version.

This video by scisimmer shows what the glass should look like when looking out from the VC (clear glass with only a few little specks of dust) :

https://youtu.be/6eE5Zt-WD44

[gaab]

Hello MZee1960,

Thank you very much


Gérard

[J.Case]

Yes, I do in the Pilot's Operating Handbook.

I uploaded it for you.
Starts on page 18 I think.

http://www.sim-outhouse.net/download...tsHandbook.zip

==>awesome ==> we´ve got a WIP . . .

[Bjoern]

Hooooo boy, that fuel system is a bit head crunching.

E.g:
User interaction:
Set transfer valve to "cabin"

Gauge logic:
Check cabin tank for fuel.
If fuel is present in tank and tranfer pump is on, set FSX fuel selector to cabin tank.
If no fuel is present in tank or transfer pump is off, set FSX fuel selector to forward center section tank.

If the transfer valve is set to "cabin" and the cabin tank contains fuel and the transfer pump is off and you're drawing from the front center section tank: If you switch on the transfer pump, you will have to set the fuel selector to the cabin tank and replenish the front center tank at the same time. (I assume that the ouput pressure of the transfer pump is higher than the one of the engine driven or booster pumps.) And that's where you'll need XMLTools.


Having the emergency bypass on ignores the front central tank and transfer pump for the FSX fuel selector, but you will (and should) run into trouble when you select an empty tank since there is no forward center tank as a fallback.


For cross feeding, I'd simply match the left FSX fuel selector to the tank used by the right fuel selector if the left booster pump is off and set the left FSX selector to the front center tank if the left booster pump is on. With a bit of XMLTools trickery, one can even account for reduced fuel flow from the left tank.


Fuel systems like these are probably the reason why I stick to aircraft with three tanks at most.

[Milton Shupe]

Unless someone wishes to add bomb bay and cabin tanks, the flow is much simpler.
Those tanks do not exist in the package now.

So wing mains and externals flow to the center tanks that feed the engines.
That flow is automatic in flight sim.

Even with an engine out, fuel will still flow to the center tanks and maintain balance in the simulator.

In the real world, certainly all those options were necessary in the event of damage to lines or center tanks.

I do not see that as necessary for the sim.

That would be a lot of complexity and work for nothing IMO.

EDIT: Glad I tested that as I discovered an oil temp issue in the engine #2 3-way gauge.

[J.Case]

Hooooo boy, that fuel system is a bit head crunching.

Fuel systems like these are probably the reason why I stick to aircraft with three tanks at most.

I can't find it that bad . . . .



Plan A: Flow control valve normal

Left engine on on frnt CS lft (116Gal) / reight engine on on frnt CS rt (116Gal)


the frnt CS Tanks are getting a refill from the Transfer Valve/Transfer Pump and the Tanks behind


Giving a fuelburn of about 110gal/h will give you about one hour flight time to get a refill going from one of the other 4 Tanks per side
A check light is telling you, when the selected tank is empty - e.g. doesn't provide fuel pressure at the transfer pump

The magnificent Sir Dr Naegele did something like that on the terrific BT-67 (M.Jahn) about 10 years ago with one auxtank in the wing - so it's basically study and learn / copy and paste . . .


Just-in-case you've got 'real engine' doing it's stuff, the Crossfeed Valve will supply the fuel from the other side . . .

So while the guys at Lockheed cramped fuel tanks into every available corner of the aircraft, your task while flying is reduced to check the 'selector indicator light' every hour or so and select a new tank if it's on - incredibly simple and easy enough for a 19/20 year old riding the stormy waves under the northern light some 700miles away from home port on the lookout for bad boys !


Suggestion for starters: hook up the engines to FUEL TANK LEFT MAIN / FUEL TANK RIGHT MAIN with 650gal each - until the fuel system is done




Plan B: Flow control valve emergancy

The booster- and/or transfer pump is gone west / the frnt CS Tank resambles a swiss cheese (no pun intended - after all it's a military aircraft) / the electrics went with the booster pump . . . . .etc

Now you can bypass the frnt tank and sip directly from the selected tank without the 116Gal/1H buffer in between with the added fun of flying a glider once in a while until you get it restarted on the next tank - one out of ten . . .




At this point I'd like to adapt to Miltons opinion . . . . . . just reducing the fuel connection to the center tank prevents any further development


Just my two cents . . . .

[Bjoern]

Unless someone wishes to add bomb bay and cabin tanks, the flow is much simpler.
Those tanks do not exist in the package now.

So wing mains and externals flow to the center tanks that feed the engines.
That flow is automatic in flight sim.

Even with an engine out, fuel will still flow to the center tanks and maintain balance in the simulator.

In the real world, certainly all those options were necessary in the event of damage to lines or center tanks.

I do not see that as necessary for the sim.

That would be a lot of complexity and work for nothing IMO.

Technically, the sim only draws from tanks in a certain order (external -> aux -> wing -> center) and there is no active flow. The FS2000 Concorde had a fuel pump for pumping fuel between tanks, but the associated variables and events don't work in FSX.

While not necessary in the sim, more complex fuel management adds a bit of excitement to flying.

Plan A: Flow control valve normal

Left engine on on frnt CS lft (116Gal) / reight engine on on frnt CS rt (116Gal)


the frnt CS Tanks are getting a refill from the Transfer Valve/Transfer Pump and the Tanks behind


Giving a fuelburn of about 110gal/h will give you about one hour flight time to get a refill going from one of the other 4 Tanks per side
A check light is telling you, when the selected tank is empty - e.g. doesn't provide fuel pressure at the transfer pump

The magnificent Sir Dr Naegele did something like that on the terrific BT-67 (M.Jahn) about 10 years ago with one auxtank in the wing - so it's basically study and learn / copy and paste . . .

Copy-paste is too simple.

You can indeed set the fuel selectors to only ever draw from the front center section tanks, but you'll have to replenish them from the other tanks somehow by using XMLTools or Doug Dawson's Fuel Dump gauge (yes, it also works in reverse) if you want to make this available to the FS9ers.

Just-in-case you've got 'real engine' doing it's stuff, the Crossfeed Valve will supply the fuel from the other side . . .

In the above scenario, this is as simple as assigning the opposite side's tank to the fuel selector that's being cross fed. You can use the example code from FSDev for that without much or even any modifiaction.

Plan B: Flow control valve emergancy

The booster- and/or transfer pump is gone west / the frnt CS Tank resambles a swiss cheese (no pun intended - after all it's a military aircraft) / the electrics went with the booster pump . . . . .etc

Now you can bypass the frnt tank and sip directly from the selected tank without the 116Gal/1H buffer in between with the added fun of flying a glider once in a while until you get it restarted on the next tank - one out of ten . . .

No sane pilot would switch tanks for both engines at the same time.

[AussieMan]

Milton, is there going to be a paintkit for the Ventura? Or have I missed it somewhere along the line. I am assuming I may have missed it as I don't have it in my paint work folder.