FR Handley Page Halifax WIP - Page 2
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Thread: FR Handley Page Halifax WIP

  1. #26
    absolutly stunning . . . . btw - what kind of interior setup do you envision?
    They all start with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience .
    The trick is, to fill the bag with experience before you run out of luck . . .

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Case View Post
    absolutly stunning . . . . btw - what kind of interior setup do you envision?
    Sorry, don't quite understand the question?

    Mike

  3. #28

    Halifax interior

    Hi Mike,

    The pics from the cockpit are just awe inspiring - as far as I remember it's been a single pilot cockpit, back to back with the flight engineer and with a Navigator sitting between the bombadiers compartment and the Pilot together with the radio operator with something remotly reminding me of an isle running along the fuselage . . .

    it looks like a couple of square miles for extra instrumentation, camera positions and eye candy
    They all start with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience .
    The trick is, to fill the bag with experience before you run out of luck . . .

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Case View Post
    Hi Mike,

    The pics from the cockpit are just awe inspiring - as far as I remember it's been a single pilot cockpit, back to back with the flight engineer and with a Navigator sitting between the bombadiers compartment and the Pilot together with the radio operator with something remotly reminding me of an isle running along the fuselage . . .

    it looks like a couple of square miles for extra instrumentation, camera positions and eye candy
    Yes, and unusual arrangement, with the radio operator sitting right below the pilot's position. The flight engineer had a folding seat so as to be able to assist the pilot when needed, but as far as I can tell nothing permanent (A second control yoke and pedals could be installed for training). Navigator and bombardier together in the nose, but separated by a curtain.

    To copy and paste from a reply on a different forum: If as pilot you lean over and peer down into the passageway, you'll see that the radio operators curtain is closed, as is the one leading forward to the navigator and bombardier's positions. Having curtains there is authentic (and necessary, as there won't be enough polygons available to suitably model other compartments). But leading rearwards, aft of the flight engineer's station behind the pilot, we're going to have to assume that the crew decided they didn't want light coming up front in case anyone brewed some tea in the centre section, and jury rigged a curtain sealing off the fuselage interior.

    I will try to make it so that a little light leaks around the curtains, so you'll know your crew is hard at work at their individual jobs as you fly the aircraft.

    Mike

  5. #30
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    Hi Mike,
    THis Halifax is really beautiful... and what a cockpit!!!
    you can count me in if you add liveries from (Free French) No.346 or 347 Squadrons that were based at RAF Elvington near the city of York...
    Cheers,

    Stéph.

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  7. #32
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    Yes!!!

  8. #33
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    Guess I'm definitely updating my Elvington as well, then.

    Ian P.

  9. #34
    SOH-CM-2017 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    This is looking pretty good Mike. A fascinating aeroplane, solid operational record, interesting postwar use as the Halton. You going to include the Halton? not that it matters that much, I am in for this one too.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by BendyFlyer View Post
    This is looking pretty good Mike. A fascinating aeroplane, solid operational record, interesting postwar use as the Halton. You going to include the Halton? not that it matters that much, I am in for this one too.

    Yes indeed, the H.P. 70 Halton will be in there, too.

    Mike

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_cyul View Post
    Yes indeed, the H.P. 70 Halton will be in there, too.

    Mike
    Great news. Look forward to the release sure lot of things to do in the meantime. The Bristol Hercules engine sounds will be tricky. I presume it will be the MK III. Well if I may suggest a possible fitting paint would be 462 Squadron RAAF who operated these from 1942 to 1944 and were a pure Halifax Squadron only in WW2. Interestingly this Squadron was mostly poms for awhile but were basically Mediteranean based and did the Africa campaign etc and it was not until 1944 they went back to the UK and joined the Bomber Command campaign.

  12. #37
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    The Halifax was supposed to be much easier for the pilot to get out of in an emergency than the Lancaster, but on the other hand, the Lancaster was judged by no less an authority than Sir Arthur Harris to be the superior aircraft.

    I can see what was meant about that ease of departure. It looks like a lot roomier cockpit than a Lanc had.

  13. #38
    That thing about the roomier cockpit reminds me of Martin Shaw [Actor] relating at one Duxford show how Brewster Buffalo pilots took evasive action. They ran around in the cockpits.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by SSI01 View Post
    The Halifax was supposed to be much easier for the pilot to get out of in an emergency than the Lancaster, but on the other hand, the Lancaster was judged by no less an authority than Sir Arthur Harris to be the superior aircraft.

    I can see what was meant about that ease of departure. It looks like a lot roomier cockpit than a Lanc had.

    I think the appearance of a roomier cockpit is just the perspective that an FSX VC gives. That said, Halifax's did have a slightly wider fuselage, with less encumbrances, and crews appreciated the extra room both during normal ops and especially in emergencies. The Halifax had a higher survival rate than did the Lancaster. That said, the pilot still had to find and clip on the parachute (in the dark) before using that nice large hatch above him, and once centrifugal forces set in if the aircraft spun I imagine it was as next to impossible to get out of as anything else. And the pilot would stay with the aircraft longer than anyone else before trying to get out.

    As far as which is superior, the Lancaster or the Halifax, that's probably a good discussion, but I think the early model Halifax with Merlin engines was definitely inferior (apparently primarily due to problems with propwash over the wing due to the Merlins' placement) and needed a long development period, not to mention the rudder stalls with the early tail shape. The later Hercules-engined variants with the square fins were as good as anything else. The Lancaster came out-of-the-box in pretty good shape and so had less of a history of headaches. From Harris' point of view, the Lancaster could carry much larger bombs due to the bomb bay design, and that's what counted for him!

    Mike

  15. #40
    SOH Staff .."Bartender" AussieMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_cyul View Post
    The Lancaster came out-of-the-box in pretty good shape and so had less of a history of headaches. From Harris' point of view, the Lancaster could carry much larger bombs due to the bomb bay design, and that's what counted for him!

    Mike

    Actually Mike The Lancaster was a derivative of the Avro Manchester. Lack of power and performance forced Avro to redesign the Manchester by extending the wingspan to 102ft and adding 4 Rolls Royce Merlin engines although a mark of the Lancaster retained the Bristol Hercules engines.


    Cheers
    Pat


    "Some people might say that freedom is being alone in the bush with the only sounds being the murmurs from the birds ... but I believe freedom is at 5000 feet with no other sound than the engine roaring."- William Hutchison, a young man taken from us far too young (16).

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  17. #42
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    The Halifax was supposed to be much easier for the pilot to get out of in an emergency than the Lancaster
    Unfortunately I can't remember where it was, but somewhere I've seen a comparison of survival rates of crew members of shot down Lancasters and Halifaxes. All too often the rear gunner was the only survivor from a Lancaster.
    Rats - why won't anything work properly first time?

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by AussieMan View Post
    Actually Mike The Lancaster was a derivative of the Avro Manchester. Lack of power and performance forced Avro to redesign the Manchester by extending the wingspan to 102ft and adding 4 Rolls Royce Merlin engines although a mark of the Lancaster retained the Bristol Hercules engines.
    Not to pre-empt Mike, ( and I'm sure he's as aware of the Manchester as any of us ) - I think what he means is that the Lancaster was a success from the day the prototype first flew, whereas the Halifax suffered from performance and aerodynamic problems, and was developed through a number of marks before it evolved into the B.Mk III. The latter was considered to be every bit as capable as the Lancaster ( more so, according to some ), but it took time to get there. The Lancaster, on the other hand, was a success from day one.

    Just for info, it was the Mk. II Lancaster that was fitted with Hercules engines, though it was not something retained from an earlier version.

  19. #44
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    I read somewhere those Mk IIs went mostly to No. 6 (Canadian) group.

    In a biography of Harris I've got somewhere, I remember him writing the Halifax was what he termed "a typical Handley-Page product," whatever that meant. I know he had earlier experience with fixed-undercarriage HP bomber products so maybe he was transferring his opinion from the older to the new product. I know the earlier marks had stability problems with the smaller rudders plus the slightly shorter wing with the rounded tips.

    Interestingly, the Manchester suffered from a rather poor power plant, the RR Vulture engine. Supposed to have been prone to running hot, and to fires. That's something that was a rarity, I suppose - a RR engine that wasn't up to snuff.

    Gibson flew the aircraft for a while, but I can't remember if he wrote or said anything about it. "Enemy Coast Ahead" AFAIK covers only his operations flying HP Hampdens.

  20. #45
    SOH-CM-2018 dhasdell's Avatar
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    Gibson flew the aircraft for a while, but I can't remember if he wrote or said anything about it. "Enemy Coast Ahead" AFAIK covers only his operations flying HP Hampdens
    No, It covers Hampdens, Beaufighters, Manchesters and Lancasters including the Dams Raid, but with little specific detail for security reasons.
    Rats - why won't anything work properly first time?

  21. #46
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    few things to note - the Halifax had to make do engines it wasn't designed for, it was planned for it to have the same merlin engines as spitfires and hurricanes had, but due to being told "no chance" it had to make do with weaker engines, eventually leading to the dumping of the merlins altogether. The lanc got the engines it wanted and was designed for from day 1 because by then then we were making enough! Also from pilots accounts the issue with the tail depended on pilot experience, those who knew about it didnt think it was a problem, but it caught out the lesser experienced pilots. It was also easier to survive a halifax crash because it tended to break apart into sections and you could actually move about in it, unlike the lanc, where it was very tight inside.

    The Manchester's were just an utter failure by all accounts, flew horribly and spent more time having its engines fixed than flying!

    Also, the Halifax cockpit WAS roomier than the lanc, having been in one it is actually very spacious and very easy to move around in, you do step rather than crawl and can pretty much stand upright

    As to harris .. he only liked the lanc because it could carry more bombs further, and thats all that mattered to him, he didnt give tuppence to anything else!
    yes i know i cant spell half the time! Thank you kindly to those few who pointed that out

  22. #47
    SOH-CM-2017 BendyFlyer's Avatar
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    Heads up for those interested, latest pictures updating progress on the Halifax posted over on the Flight Replicas Facebook page. Looking very good at this stage.

  23. #48
    Thanks, Bendy.

    And here are a few more new screenshots, as the dedicated BOAC version is now complete.

    Keep in mind that everything is still a work in progress, however!

    After this, it'll be on to making more textures for the wartime Mk.III's.






  24. #49

  25. #50
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    Excellent Mike!
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