Released!! F9F Cougar by Rob Richardson

[robcarrich]

Rob is correct - flaps were either UP or DOWN. Always down for takeoff and landing, period.

Mike, thank you for the knowledgeable first hand information.
Take-off must have needed very precise handling, I would imagine hitting the ground with the tailskid was a problem waiting to happen?
What was the normal take-off speed on a warm summer day?

RobR

[Josh Patterson]

If its accuracy your after Josh you will find the Cougar had just one notch of flap at 22degs for the outboard and 40degs for inboard, no intermediate flap setting can be made, that is according to the pilots notes.

RobR

Ahh! I was going off the flap gauge on the panel! Two flap positions IS easier to remember than four! (Just like the EE Lightning I guess!) Either way I still love it!

[Penz]

Thank you and happy birthday Rob!

[PhantomP]

Happy Birthday Rob,and thanks for this amazing gift.

[Bjoern]

I have enough fuel.

In all the tanks?

[Mike71]

Mike, thank you for the knowledgeable first hand information.
Take-off must have needed very precise handling, I would imagine hitting the ground with the tailskid was a problem waiting to happen?
What was the normal take-off speed on a warm summer day?

RobR

Rob - takeoff speed (knots indicated) did not vary with temp; I realize most civilian aircraft vary this for climbout capability/engine loss, but not in Navy tactical jets in my experience, both in the fleet and as a test pilot, but my flying ended in the late 80's.

Here is what I have from old notes ( speed in KIAS):

TOW (K lbs ) rotate 10 deg
25.0 145
23.0 138
21.0 131
19.0 124
17.0 117
15.0 110

do NOT over rotate - let airplane lift off at 10 deg NU
climb out at rotation speed for obstacle clearance if necessary
accelerate to 150 KIAS / 1000 AGL before flap retraction
gear retraction takes approximately 10 sec - avoid abrupt elevator inputs to maintain safe rate of climb as gear retracts

The tail bumper was never a problem for takeoffs because everyone was paranoid about the danger of over-rotating and causing dangerously increased induced drag from excessive angle of attack.

However, the bumper was necessary because of the very limited tailpipe clearance and a possible nose high carrier landing. Also, the "pull back" from the arresting gear after landing often caused the airplane to rock back on the skag as the retraction process was stopped and the pilot hit the brakes (as signaled by the director).

I will put together some additional performance info over the next few days; the least I can do to enhance your marvelous contribution to our hobby

[gray eagle]

I wonder if the tail hook contact could be adjusted so that the wire is in the tail hook instead of riding up the hook to the tail pipe as seen here on the Midway.



Current settings:
[TailHook]
tailhook_length= 4.0
tailhook_position=-13.623, 0.00, -1.489
cable_force_adjust=1.99

[robcarrich]

What program are you using for the arrester wire vis?

[fallenphoenix1986]

Thanks Rob and happy birthday.

Re. the wire animation, pretty sure its a feature of the SWS carriers:

http://simworksstudios.com/products/...-midway-cv-41/

[fliger747]

The prototype Me 262 was a taildragger and almost wouldn't get off the ground. Especially true of the first turbojets was a lack of thrust at low speed and the extra drag of early rotation, or in the case of the first 262, three point attitude when added to the adverse inlet geometry could prevent acceleration. Not a lot of thrust till you really got going!

Even in commercial jets there is an issue with possible over rotation due to fuselage length. Boeing for instance recommended a two stage rotation, an initial rotation depending on the plane to maybe 8 degrees, the rotation could then be continued to the target for climb out, usually around 13 degrees. The rotation rate was critical so as to allow the struts time to extend as the weight comes off. Even making an improved climb takeoff from Denver in a 737-400 racing down the runway at about 190 knots! Rotating for takeoff would be enough inlet Geometry change to get the over temp lights wink on, the slightest squeeze on the thrust levers would put them out.

A lot of wing on the F9F! Some of my first officers had flown the F9F in flight school back in the day!

Nice plane from a great era of aviation!

[robcarrich]

Thanks Rob and happy birthday.

Re. the wire animation, pretty sure its a feature of the SWS carriers:

http://simworksstudios.com/products/...-midway-cv-41/

Thanks for that,
I’ve had a look at this software before, the animated wirereally is a nice feature but at fifty bucks its not for this old pensioner!
I can see what the problem is with the wire miss-alignmentbut without the program in question there is not much I can do.
I’d recommend playing around with the hook settings, maybeincreasing the vertical value.

RobR

[gray eagle]

What program are you using for the arrester wire vis?

I'm using the Midway by SimWorks Studio, I used Win 7 snipping tool for screen capture. (P3D V3)

[MDIvey]

Thanks Rob for another masterpiece... and especially for doing an Fsx version

Matt

[robcarrich]

I'm using the Midway by SimWorks Studio, I used Win 7 snipping tool for screen capture. (P3D V3)

I dont have that program unfortunately but the post above yours is relevant, try playing around with the hook settings as described above.
Good luck!

RobR

[Duckie]

Doesn't the Midway carriers come with instructions for adjusting hook hinge point and length to address the visible contact of the cable to hook? Check the pdf docs. I think it's in there.

[Mike71]

For those interested in tech mods to the aircraft.cfg file, my old notes show this


Fuel system: this was fully automatic with the exception of selecting drop tank transfer to the main cell. Their were two fuselage bladders interconnected, but so what. These were the quantities for the -8, as could be changed in your cfg file:
Center1 = -0.0, 0.0, -1.50, 830.5, 16.5
LeftMain = -4.1, -7.9, -0.8, 107.5, 0.5
RightMain = -4.1, 7.9, -0.8, 107.5, 0.5

J-48-P8 engine with 7250 lb thrust

NATOPS data for weights:
Empty Weight (including a 210 lb pilot with flight gear): 12400 lb typical
Max Field Takeoff: 25,000 lb
max Catapult Launch: 24,500 lbs
Max Field Landing: 17,000 lbs
Max Arrestment; 16,000 lbs

High OAT takeoff info - SEA LEVEL (flaps DOWN): takeoff INADVISABLE
OAT (F) TOW Limit (lb) Vr / Climbout (KIAS) Ground Run - Zero Wind (ft)
100 22,000 135 7150
90 23,400 139 7500
60 25,000 145 6700

Airspeed limits: Gear/Flaps/ Canopy open - 220 KIAS
Speed Brakes - 0.95 IMN
No max KIAS or max IMN - limited by airframe drag. However, an extensive g vs speed envelope had to be complied with ("V-n Diagram").With drops or ordnance, I assume at that time it was 450 KIAS / 0.90 IMN, but need to dig further.
I recall gear and flaps being revised to 250 KIAS, but not sure.


I reported to NAS Kingsville for advanced jet training in August of 1965, got my wings in November. God, South Texas can get hot!
I never flew with the canopy open. When Martin-Baker developed the 100 knot seat with automatic seat-man separation, this was no longer done.

I never flew the single or two-seater with external tanks or ordnance except with 25 lb "turd bombs" used for practice. Our single seaters had the two inboard nose cannons removed to reduce weight and maintenance costs.

We typically climbed at 300 KIAS to 0.72 IMN to about FL300 for cruise at 0.72 best range. I will get some better data later. As I recall, we started to comply with what I believe were fairly new rules about 250 KIAS below 10,000 MSL when not in a military practice area.

Remember, this was a centrifugal flow engine with a chubby profile; high thrust to weight and aerodynamic elegance were lacking.

By the time I was flying the Cougar, Navy jets had the AoA system and we used it like religion. It consisted of both a round gauge/ needle and the indexer chevron lite "V donut inverted V", all colored yellow. Today I believe they are red for slow, yellow donut and green fast chevron. They were mounted on the upper left, the gauge under the glare shield, the indexer lights on the glare shield. This is pretty standard on any jet as far as I know.

I never saw a Navy tactical airplane with ILS - we used PAR radar, and in my opinion is better than ILS if the controller is good, which they always seemed to be. We only had TACAN, which is UHF bearing and DME, coupled together and channelized. We used UHF comms, and had UHF ADF, not LF ADF. I believe P-3s had ILS, and the transports did. First ILS I ever used in a Navy plane was when I did the acceptance tests on the C-12B KingAir 200. I had a lot of civilian flight experience as well, so I got that bonus assignment at Pax River. What a good deal.

The Cougar had no autopilot -this was typical in those days. The Navy was worried about pilots in a single-seater dozing off and running low on fuel, and tactical jets in the air for more than a couple of hours was unusual.

[henrystreet]

I reported to NAS Kingsville for advanced jet training in August of 1965, got my wings in November. God, South Texas can get hot!

Mike, please keep it coming! Love to hear more about your training, the local course rules or any other details you can offer.

[mikezola]

Congrats to Rob for another birthday and another beautifully done aircraft! Salute!

-Mike Z.

[Roger]

It would be great to see some screenshots of this work-of-art from some of those brilliant screenshot takers

[menef]

Thank you Mister Rob for this gift!!! Very well done! The only question mark I have is about the VOR/ILS indicator (top right hand of the cockpit) : the adjusting knob should move the compass card in order to
set any radial/QDM/QDR but the compass card actually is a gyrodirectional indicating the aircraft heading so it is very hard to understand its indications. I haven't figured out how it works, for sureit's not a
conventional VOR indicator.

[jamminjames]

Great job Rob! Thanks for this one. Looks and flies great......

[robcarrich]

[QUOTE=menef;1124675]Thank you Mister Rob for this gift!!! Very well done! The only question mark I have is about the VOR/ILS indicator (top right hand of the cockpit) : the adjusting knob should move the compass card in order to
set any radial/QDM/QDR but the compass card actually is a gyrodirectional indicating the aircraft heading so it is very hard to understand its indications. I haven't figured out how it works, for sureit's not a
conventional VOR indicator. QUOTE]

The gauge is an old Microsoft ILS (FS9 I think), works OK for me, its the only cab gauge in the cockpit so you could put whatever you like in.
If you need help doing that just let me know.

RobR

[Bjoern]

The Cougar had no autopilot -this was typical in those days. The Navy was worried about pilots in a single-seater dozing off and running low on fuel, and tactical jets in the air for more than a couple of hours was unusual.

What about stick-between-knees?

[johndetrick]

Here's a link to the F9F-8 Flight Manual.

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/search?q=cougar

[Crusader]

Here's a link to the F9F-8 Flight Manual.

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/search?q=cougar

Thanks for the link John . You thinking about doing some Marine paints ?

Rich