Maryadi's MV22B Osprey Rel2.0 released

[rcbarend]

Thanks Rob, glad I'm not hunting another issue down.

I've had a look at a display on youtube where the yaw rate was in the order of 30 degree per second. I can see at that rate with the roll sensitivity I'd come to grief quite quickly!

It's quite a fascinating vehicle to watch maneuver, a much more agile aircraft than you would think.

Many thanks

Andy

Hi Andy,

Do you have a link to that video ??

Cheers, Rob

*edit* I was wrong. Can't do the math anymore ..(age ..LoL)
On my system it isn't 2 degrees / sec but 12 degrees/sec (30 sec for a full 360 circle). So about half of what you observed.
Which could very well be possible.

But if you observe only 1-2 degrees/sec on your PC: are you sure your rudder (pedals) work OK c.q. are well-calibrated ??
If you PM me your EMail address, I can send you a small test gauge that measures the exact % of rudder input..

[PhantomTweak]

Thanks Rob, I'll try that shortly. Just got home from hospital after cataract surgery so don't feel like doing much right at the moment!
Maybe tomorrow I'll go through your suggestions.

Glad you're home and doing...relatively well, let's say.
Don't feel too bad. I lost my left eye back in 1992. Just be VERY careful.
If the eye you got surgery on is covered for now, remember some things. You have no depth perception now. Watch out for walking into corners you're trying to go around, you'll have real fun picking things up (you'll miss a lot ), and there's no catching things thrown to you. Trust me on these.
Driving, if you do, will be dangerous now. Practice getting close to other cars, limit lines, stop lites, or things like that, in a relatively empty parking lot. Slowly. Going around corners, too. You WILL jump curbs, Makes my wife nuts when I do that. With practice, you'll be just as good as you ever were.

Good luck to ya! Surgery is never fun, and the older, the worser. Get better soonest!
Just so you know, a damp cloth, as warm as you can stand it, really helps the pain in the eye. First couple weeks, I practically lived with a warn, damp, cloth held up on my eye.
Fun times.
Pat☺

Andy,
Check that your yaw damper is NOT engaged. Ctrl+D is the key combo to toggle it. If your yaw rate is slow, try toggling it and see if it makes any difference.
Just a thought...
Pat☺

[MrZippy]

OK, Zippy is done with the inverted flight tests. She passes with flying colors...colours....crullers. I think the last one is a doughnut

[rcbarend]

OK, Zippy is done with the inverted flight tests. She passes with flying colors...colours....crullers. I think the last one is a doughnut

That is what I mean; makes no sence ..LoL
Should be falling out of the sky like a brick ....

[Josh Patterson]

That is what I mean; makes no sence ..LoL
Should be falling out of the sky like a brick ....

Naw, the extremely skilled pilot obviously pulled reverse pitch on the props/rotors just to show ol' Shawn D how aerobatics are REALLY performed!!

[strykerpsg]

That is what I mean; makes no sence ..LoL
Should be falling out of the sky like a brick ....

Not certain if you are being sarcastic, but current generation helicopters are very much able to do loops/donuts for about last 20 years or so. Sustained inverted flight? Your comment would make sense.

[rcbarend]

Not certain if you are being sarcastic, but current generation helicopters are very much able to do loops/donuts for about last 20 years or so. Sustained inverted flight? Your comment would make sense.

No, not being sarcastic at all .....
And Yes, I was referring to sustained inverted flight in VTOL configuration.

In my current implementation I forgot to model that, so now it IS possible to fly inverted in VTOL continuously. Which makes no sense ..
Just a shortcomming of my current VTOL implementation (for this Osprey) .

Rob

[strykerpsg]

No, not being sarcastic at all .....
And Yes, I was referring to sustained inverted flight in VTOL configuration.

In my current implementation I forgot to model that, so now it IS possible to fly inverted in VTOL continuously. Which makes no sense ..
Just a shortcomming of my current VTOL implementation (for this Osprey) .

Rob

LOL! Thanks. I assumed you meant sustained, but some people just don't realize some of the advances. Looking forward to your tweaking. Admittedly, since I have not finished tweaking my HOTAS setup, I have not tried this beauty. However, with upcoming extended leave of absence, I suspect I will very get to enjoy the labor of your FDE and Maryadi's labor of love.

[rcbarend]

LOL! Thanks. I assumed you meant sustained, but some people just don't realize some of the advances. Looking forward to your tweaking. Admittedly, since I have not finished tweaking my HOTAS setup, I have not tried this beauty. However, with upcoming extended leave of absence, I suspect I will very get to enjoy the labor of your FDE and Maryadi's labor of love.

Not sure if/when I'm going to model this (exceptional) flight behaviour, because it's rather complex to model with some form of realisme.
Apart from the fact that I don't even know what "realisme" is, when trying inverted flight in VTOL config in a real Tiltrotor aircraft ...LoL

Reason: in my gauge calculations and "overwriting" the FDE, I can only command lon/lat/vert. speed relative to the aircraft axis, not earth axis.
So these should be dependant on current pitch and bank attitude.
This is modelled now, but not for inverted flight.

Cheers, Rob

[freded]

Glad you're home and doing...relatively well, let's say.
Don't feel too bad. I lost my left eye back in 1992. Just be VERY careful.
If the eye you got surgery on is covered for now, remember some things. You have no depth perception now. Watch out for walking into corners you're trying to go around, you'll have real fun picking things up (you'll miss a lot ), and there's no catching things thrown to you. Trust me on these.
Driving, if you do, will be dangerous now. Practice getting close to other cars, limit lines, stop lites, or things like that, in a relatively empty parking lot. Slowly. Going around corners, too. You WILL jump curbs, Makes my wife nuts when I do that. With practice, you'll be just as good as you ever were.

Good luck to ya! Surgery is never fun, and the older, the worser. Get better soonest!
Just so you know, a damp cloth, as warm as you can stand it, really helps the pain in the eye. First couple weeks, I practically lived with a warn, damp, cloth held up on my eye.
Fun times.
Pat☺

Andy,
Check that your yaw damper is NOT engaged. Ctrl+D is the key combo to toggle it. If your yaw rate is slow, try toggling it and see if it makes any difference.
Just a thought...
Pat☺

Hi Pat,

Very sorry to hear about your left eye. Was it an accident?

I’m already noticing my lack of depth perception! Being very cautious when walking. But I’m certainly not going to drive till my vision is better.

Thanks for the hot damp cloth tip. I’ll try it if the eye hurts.

Take care!

[strykerpsg]

Not sure if/when I'm going to model this (exceptional) flight behaviour, because it's rather complex to model with some form of realisme.
Apart from the fact that I don't even know what "realisme" is, when trying inverted flight in VTOL config in a real Tiltrotor aircraft ...LoL

Reason: in my gauge calculations and "overwriting" the FDE, I can only command lon/lat/vert. speed relative to the aircraft axis, not earth axis.
So these should be dependant on current pitch and bank attitude.
This is modelled now, but not for inverted flight.

Cheers, Rob

We have total faith and confidence you will either figure it out specifically or as close to realistic as is allowable.

[PhantomTweak]

Hi Pat,

Very sorry to hear about your left eye. Was it an accident?

Yes. I ran into a horse on my motorcycle in Yuma, a 1978 Yamaha Police Special. Looked just like the bikes on CHiPS, back when. Wild horses run free there. This particular (black) horse ran free, right out in front of my bike, at 60 MPH. It was just before dawn, the Monday before Thanksgiving, and I was heading out to work. Hour drive each way, each day, 12 hour shift. Nice, huh? I don't remember much after he turned the white blaze on his face toword me, until a couple guys found me, walking in circles picking up pieces of the bike. Piecing it together afterwards, they figure he reared at the last second, rode the forks and front fairing up, and scraped me off the bike. If not, I would have hit him square on, probably killing me. We went bouncing down the highway. I figure my head ricocheted off the highway centerline a few (dozen) times. Big yellow stripe down the side of my helmet. I still have it as a memento. Anyway, it knocked my retina loose, and cataracted the lens over. Took about a week to fully take effect.
They tried to stick the retina back up with what then was a new device, the scleral buckle it's called. A ziptie for the retina, essentially, that holds it to the inner surface. Laser tacked it in place as well. They pulled the lens out too. Too badly damaged. The morning after the operation, though, the retina tore loose, and now looks, the doctor told me, like a wad of paper in the bottom. I was stoned out of my mind on pain meds during the exam, and threw up down the female intern's blouse. Really nice cleavidge, iirc. So, the ball is still there, physically, but no retina, or lens. Apparently they nicked the nerve to the pupil, as well, and it no longer closes. Stuck as wide open as it gets.

By the way, the horse died at the scene, after thrashing around in the ditch beside the road for about a half hour. No one could put it down, because of the Az laws. Only BLM could do that, and they were over an hour away. So it layed in the ditch, thrashing around, slowly drowning in it's own blood.
I am the only person I know of, however, that's ever killed a horse with his chest. Marines

Good luck yo you, Mark. Hope you feel better soonest, and the operation works as advertised. Me, I died on the table for about 10 min. Don't remember a thing, though.

Pat☺

Andy,
Any luck, yet, on the yaw thing?
Pat☺

[QUOTE]We have total faith and confidence you will either figure it out specifically or as close to realistic as is allowable.[/QUOTE]

Yes Rob!
You make things with the very greatest level of realisme
Pat☺

[rcbarend]

Andy,
Any luck, yet, on the yaw thing?
Pat☺

Just had another user test this on both FSX-SE and P3Dv4; same results as me on FSX-Accel.
So appr. 30 sec for a full 360 turn with full rudder.

[QUOTE=PhantomTweak;1123070]

We have total faith and confidence you will either figure it out specifically or as close to realistic as is allowable.[/QUOTE]

Yes Rob!
You make things with the very greatest level of realisme
Pat☺

Thanks for the appreciation and faith ...LoL

Rob

PS: Nested Quotes doesn't appear to work on this forum

[andy277uk]

Hi again,

Still no luck, the pedal animations seem to be doing strange things when full left yaw is put in. It kicks back when to about half depression after reaching full.

Regardless of the animation, the performance in either direction remains the same.

I did a static turn to port and starboard and it's 20 seconds through 90 degrees so a little faster than I thought, but still nowhere near what you are seeing.

Here is the link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujTr7ZOLdrU

He does a yaw turn at 4:25, but it's a fascinating aircraft to watch fly so enjoy the full video!

Put the rudder through FSUIPC as raw and still no change. Only Osprey seems afflicted.

Thank you so much for spending the time looking at this, much appreciated.

I'll PM you my e-mail for that gauge you mentioned.

Best regards

Andy

[rcbarend]

Hi again,

Still no luck, the pedal animations seem to be doing strange things when full left yaw is put in. It kicks back when to about half depression after reaching full.

Regardless of the animation, the performance in either direction remains the same.

I did a static turn to port and starboard and it's 20 seconds through 90 degrees so a little faster than I thought, but still nowhere near what you are seeing.

Here is the link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujTr7ZOLdrU

He does a yaw turn at 4:25, but it's a fascinating aircraft to watch fly so enjoy the full video!

Put the rudder through FSUIPC as raw and still no change. Only Osprey seems afflicted.

Thank you so much for spending the time looking at this, much appreciated.

I'll PM you my e-mail for that gauge you mentioned.

Best regards

Andy

Hi Andy,

Got your PM... I will mail you a test gauge soon, with instructions how to add it.
As to the rudder animation in the VC: yes, looks a bit odd ... but is known and can be explained. But has nothing to do with your problem.

As to the video: Yes, great to see.
And the yaw rate looks a bit faster then what I implemented, but the perspective is also changing (camera zooms in, and the V22 has some forward speed).
So it's hard to tell exactly.

Rob

[freded]

Yes. I ran into a horse on my motorcycle in Yuma, a 1978 Yamaha Police Special. Looked just like the bikes on CHiPS, back when. Wild horses run free there. This particular (black) horse ran free, right out in front of my bike, at 60 MPH. It was just before dawn, the Monday before Thanksgiving, and I was heading out to work. Hour drive each way, each day, 12 hour shift. Nice, huh? I don't remember much after he turned the white blaze on his face toward me, until a couple guys found me, walking in circles picking up pieces of the bike. Piecing it together afterwards, they figure he reared at the last second, rode the forks and front fairing up, and scraped me off the bike. If not, I would have hit him square on, probably killing me. We went bouncing down the highway. I figure my head ricocheted off the highway centerline a few (dozen) times. Big yellow stripe down the side of my helmet. I still have it as a memento. Anyway, it knocked my retina loose, and cataracted the lens over. Took about a week to fully take effect.
They tried to stick the retina back up with what then was a new device, the scleral buckle it's called. A ziptie for the retina, essentially, that holds it to the inner surface. Laser tacked it in place as well. They pulled the lens out too. Too badly damaged. The morning after the operation, though, the retina tore loose, and now looks, the doctor told me, like a wad of paper in the bottom. I was stoned out of my mind on pain meds during the exam, and threw up down the female intern's blouse. Really nice cleavage, iirc. So, the ball is still there, physically, but no retina, or lens. Apparently they nicked the nerve to the pupil, as well, and it no longer closes. Stuck as wide open as it gets.

By the way, the horse died at the scene, after thrashing around in the ditch beside the road for about a half hour. No one could put it down, because of the Az laws. Only BLM could do that, and they were over an hour away. So it layed in the ditch, thrashing around, slowly drowning in it's own blood.
I am the only person I know of, however, that's ever killed a horse with his chest. Marines

Good luck to you, Mark. Hope you feel better soonest, and the operation works as advertised. Me, I died on the table for about 10 min. Don't remember a thing, though.

Pat☺

Pat,

What a terrifying thing to have happen to you! And to the poor wretched horse, too, of course... You were certainly lucky to survive it and the subsequent surgery!

Yes, feeling better today. Had a follow-up with the eye-surgeon this afternoon and he's satisfied with progress. Still very blurry vision in that eye but that's said to be normal and will improve.

[freded]

Pat,

I am trying to open the list of Sling Loads in Rel.2 running in P3D, but nothing happens when I hit Shift+J.

I've checked that AICarriers is running and that conf.d contains the file SLING LOADS FOR AICARRIERS.CFG.

What am I missing?

[PhantomTweak]

Ok, Mark, let's see...
Do you see AICarriers in the Add-ons menu drop-down at the top of the screen when you're flying? I don't have P3D but I can try to help here...
I know that for some users, AICarriers needs to be installed under the root P3D folder for it to show up.
I would install it there.
Leave your original AICarriers installation alone, and use it for FSX. That's no trouble. Just do a second install under the P3D root folder, and make sure your EXE.XML file has the right path to the new installation. The complete path. Like D:\Lockheed\P3D\AICarriers\AICarriers.exe just for example.
Also, make sure you're not trying to run 2 AICarriers.NET iterations. The .NET version only allows 1 iteration. To run more iterations, you have to use the original, JAVA based version.
Finally, when you do the AICarriers install for P3D, make absolutely sure you have the proper .NET Redistributable installed. There's a link to it in the AICarriers' readme file.
Make sure you do a cold reboot after every install you do. AICarriers, .NET Redist, whatever.

Bear in mind, Rob's Hoist Operations/A-A Refueling gauge for REL.2 Hasn't been released yet, so the hoist stuff doesn't function in the Rel.2 yet. This won't have any effect on the functioning of AICarriers, of course. But...

After all this fun stuff, NOW check and see if it's showing up in the Add-ons drop-down. If it is, see if your Hoist loads are showing up. Make sure that you look for the hoist loads on a second or third page in the SHFT+J menu. Depending on what all you have in your basic aicarriers.cfg, and any other .cfg files in the .conf.d folder, the hoist loads can be on a second, third, fourth, or whatever, pages. That's why I try to keep my .cfg files down to a minimum. It can get annoying to have to flip through multiple pages trying to find the one load that you want.

By the way, I've made up a new Sling Loads config file, with a large number of unique items. Some from missions, some from Hovercontol's forum, etc. You should have most of them installed, but if not, they simply won't show in the shft+j menu. Once you get it going, that is
I can zip it and post it this thread, or send it to you in an email. Your choice.

Let me know what's what
Pat☺

Edit: Here's the new .cfg file. Enjoy!
Hint: The Pallet of Boxes load (thie first one in the list) has a large variety of different items placed near each other. Some big, some small. The bigg one will NOT fit into the plane! You try to load the Tesla coil for example, it looks like a really pretty bird bath, actually, into the plane, it will either cause a crash of the plane, if crash detect turned on, or break the cable, if the crash detect is turned off. Either way, you gotta carry it outside. The Fuel Bladder does fit, though. No troubles.
Good luck!

Sling loads for aicarriers.zip

[PhantomTweak]

On a whole different subject, if I may ask, Maryadi, are there any plans to make the landing lights illuminate the ground? From the spot view, they look great, but no light on the ground. In the VC, naturally, the lights aren't visible, but again, no light on the ground, even when sitting on the ground.
It would be extremely helpful when hovering to be able to get light illuminating the ground. Especially when coming into a landing, or looking at hoist loads. I tried using the normal key commands for adjusting the direction of landing lights, but nothing showed up, no matter how I adjusted them.
Yes, I did make sure they were activated properly in the Lights Menu 2. And, as I said, they are visible when looking at the plane from the outside, they just don't illuminate anything.

Thanks for any help you can give.
Pat☺

[andy277uk]

Hi Rob,

Went through the test you e-mailed:

-100 to +100 and 0 for centre (but my pedals are getting a bit floppy in old age so 0 is touch and go!)

Conducted two 360 degree turns, 108 seconds to right, 106 second to left; with a yaw value steady at 60.

Pat, thanks for the tip on the yaw damper, tried it but still no joy.

On a plus side she stayed in a very stable hover, hands free. Made it pretty easy. Though I did lose concentration and enter vortex ring state at one point!

I purged my gauges folder of any rcb gauges, the folder that was there had a picture of what looked like the DSB Harrier in there, so goes back a long, long way. My fault for unclean migration when up-versioning!

Best regards

Andy

[andy277uk]

Sorry forgot; as an aside found a video of a demo flight at Farnborough where the pilot demonstrates a 180 degree turn in the hover (on a very blustery day) in 11 seconds. Give or take reduced manoeuvre rate due to weather, I'd say 18 deg/sec looks right on the ball. Good estimate Rob!

Andy

[freded]

Ok, Mark, let's see...
Do you see AICarriers in the Add-ons menu drop-down at the top of the screen when you're flying? I don't have P3D but I can try to help here...
I know that for some users, AICarriers needs to be installed under the root P3D folder for it to show up.
I would install it there.
Leave your original AICarriers installation alone, and use it for FSX. That's no trouble. Just do a second install under the P3D root folder, and make sure your EXE.XML file has the right path to the new installation. The complete path. Like D:\Lockheed\P3D\AICarriers\AICarriers.exe just for example.
Also, make sure you're not trying to run 2 AICarriers.NET iterations. The .NET version only allows 1 iteration. To run more iterations, you have to use the original, JAVA based version.
Finally, when you do the AICarriers install for P3D, make absolutely sure you have the proper .NET Redistributable installed. There's a link to it in the AICarriers' readme file.
Make sure you do a cold reboot after every install you do. AICarriers, .NET Redist, whatever.

Bear in mind, Rob's Hoist Operations/A-A Refueling gauge for REL.2 Hasn't been released yet, so the hoist stuff doesn't function in the Rel.2 yet. This won't have any effect on the functioning of AICarriers, of course. But...

After all this fun stuff, NOW check and see if it's showing up in the Add-ons drop-down. If it is, see if your Hoist loads are showing up. Make sure that you look for the hoist loads on a second or third page in the SHFT+J menu. Depending on what all you have in your basic aicarriers.cfg, and any other .cfg files in the .conf.d folder, the hoist loads can be on a second, third, fourth, or whatever, pages. That's why I try to keep my .cfg files down to a minimum. It can get annoying to have to flip through multiple pages trying to find the one load that you want.

By the way, I've made up a new Sling Loads config file, with a large number of unique items. Some from missions, some from Hovercontol's forum, etc. You should have most of them installed, but if not, they simply won't show in the shft+j menu. Once you get it going, that is
I can zip it and post it this thread, or send it to you in an email. Your choice.

Let me know what's what
Pat☺

Edit: Here's the new .cfg file. Enjoy!
Hint: The Pallet of Boxes load (the first one in the list) has a large variety of different items placed near each other. Some big, some small. The big one will NOT fit into the plane! You try to load the Tesla coil for example, it looks like a really pretty bird bath, actually, into the plane, it will either cause a crash of the plane, if crash detect turned on, or break the cable, if the crash detect is turned off. Either way, you gotta carry it outside. The Fuel Bladder does fit, though. No troubles.
Good luck!

Sling loads for aicarriers.zip

Hi Pat,

Thanks for that!

1. No. AICarriers isn't showing in P3D's Add-ons menu. But I have installed it under P3D root folder.

2. I've made a new copy of exe.xml under AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3, containing the complete path to AICarriers.

3. Only one AICarriers.exe is shown as running in Windows Task Manager.

So now I'm going to first reload the MV-22 in P3D and, if that isn't enough, close & re-open P3D and, if that doesn't do it, reboot the computer.

I'll re-post to tell you what worked - if anything!

[rcbarend]

Hi Rob,

Went through the test you e-mailed:

-100 to +100 and 0 for centre (but my pedals are getting a bit floppy in old age so 0 is touch and go!)

Conducted two 360 degree turns, 108 seconds to right, 106 second to left; with a yaw value steady at 60.

Then I'm really out of idea's.
SInce the yawvalue is what it should be, your pedals works OK in extreme position.
And there is nothing in the aircraft.cfg that could block/change rudder-to-yaw sensitivity, because I simply overwrite it.

Except for one thing: (because you observe roughly a factor 3.2 slower).
I know in the original FSX (RTM), there was a bug in SimConnect that made overwriting Yaw-speed a factor Pi (=3.14) slower then it should be .. Coincidence ??
So did this creep in again somehow in your P3D ?? Is this P3Dv4.0 or 4.1 ??

Rob

[rcbarend]

Sorry forgot; as an aside found a video of a demo flight at Farnborough where the pilot demonstrates a 180 degree turn in the hover (on a very blustery day) in 11 seconds. Give or take reduced manoeuvre rate due to weather, I'd say 18 deg/sec looks right on the ball. Good estimate Rob!

Andy

I'll set it to 16 degrees/sec then (= 22 sec. for a full 360 rotation) in a new gauge version

[Josh/Heater]

On a whole different subject, if I may ask, Maryadi, are there any plans to make the landing lights illuminate the ground? From the spot view, they look great, but no light on the ground. In the VC, naturally, the lights aren't visible, but again, no light on the ground, even when sitting on the ground.
It would be extremely helpful when hovering to be able to get light illuminating the ground. Especially when coming into a landing, or looking at hoist loads. I tried using the normal key commands for adjusting the direction of landing lights, but nothing showed up, no matter how I adjusted them.
Yes, I did make sure they were activated properly in the Lights Menu 2. And, as I said, they are visible when looking at the plane from the outside, they just don't illuminate anything.

Thanks for any help you can give.
Pat☺

I dont seem to have the same issue as you, Pat. My VC lights show up ok in FSX:SE and P3Dv4.1, Although in FSX I dont really see the landing lights in VC illuminated on the ground (in P3d i do with dynamic lighting).