VRS TacPack & SuperBug now available for P3dv4

[odourboy]

I've never owned their superbug. The incremental cost is $50 with TacPack. Is it worth it?

[edakridge]

In my opinion both the Tacpack and Superbug are worth every penny of the price. I for one go in for working systems. I.E. everything in VC working, not just modeled. The Superbug is the most functional detailed military aircraft that I have ever seen for Flightsim and that includes the DCS models which are only partial functional.

[jmig]

In my opinion both the Tacpack and Superbug are worth every penny of the price. I for one go in for working systems. I.E. everything in VC working, not just modeled. The Superbug is the most functional detailed military aircraft that I have ever seen for Flightsim and that includes the DCS models which are only partial functional.

I agree. Just be aware that they charge a yearly maintenance fee. Think of it as part of the price. The products, IMO, are worth it however.

[odourboy]

I agree. Just be aware that they charge a yearly maintenance fee. Think of it as part of the price. The products, IMO, are worth it however.

Do they stop working after a year? Seems to be some disagreement on the maintenance.

[jmig]

Do they stop working after a year? Seems to be some disagreement on the maintenance.

No, the program keeps working. I got upset with VRS over the fee. I did not and still, in some ways, do not understand it or its ramifications. You will need to buy it to upgrade at the upgrade price. If you buy the package, F-18 & TP together, it will add the $7.99 to the final price.

My personal opinion is that this fee is hurting them. Whether it is hurting them more than not charging the fee...???? It left a sour taste in my mouth. I am over that now.

I think the plane and TP are worth the money, regardless the added expense of the fee or not.

[awstub]

If you back up your downloads somewhere safe, you really don't need to pay the maintenance fee in my opinion.

Storage devices are relatively cheap and easy to set up and use these days.

I make it a point to back up my payware downloads in two places....one of which is a 10TB in a RAID5 configuration.

So, hopefully, I should be good unless some sort of disaster befalls me.

But I have to say that I do see jmig's point about the fee being added when you buy/upgrade to a new product with them.

[Naruto-kun]

In truth, the maintenance fee is only coming to light now because of the upgrade procedure. In the past, when they released updates (as in service updates, not FSX-to-P3D updates), you could get them for free straight from the forums, bypassing the usual client portal.

[odourboy]

One more question on the superbug... Is it working properly with Dynamic Lighting ? I.e. no illuminated cockpit when you turn on landing lights at night, runway suitably illuminated ?

[menef]

2c here to those comparing VRS to Milviz and other devs and complaining about the upgrade price (P.S. I don't work for VRS but having spent 7 years in this industry working for Milviz I do have the perspective of just what sort of sacrifices are often made to make these products).

1: The "maintenance" charge is a legit fee to cover server costs. VRS largely bypasses this though by releasing installers in their support forums when they do upgrades. Milviz can largely get away with lower profit margins due to not charging clients for this service because of the shear number of prodcuts we have available. We have 29. VRS has 1 aircraft, 1 utility (add 1 to each of the preceding if you count the separate P3D/FSX versions), and 3 scenery packages. That's only 5 products. These things don't sell like hotcakes. For a military addon, 1000 sales is a blockbuster release.

2: With the previous in mind, Jon Blum has hired new developers for upcoming products who have to be paid as well. But otherwise the core VRS team consists of 2 people. Jon Blum and Chris Tracy. Chris has a fulltime job to take care of and is the key guy behind the difficult programming that makes VRS products so good. And believe me, creating an aircraft to the level VRS has achieved is not your run-of-the-mill task that some of the other mil aircraft devs have. It is replicating almost single-handedly a feat of engineering that took a whole team of engineers years to complete. Yes it is a lot easier since it is virtual, not real, and we have the luxury of working backwards from the finished product, but the amount of things to design and keep track of is far greater than most of you can appreciate. Jon is full time VRS with a family to support. By comparison, Milviz is over 20 people, many of them part time or able to get income from other lines, with a few full timers and of course Colin has more than one source of income.

If you still think it is less than fair of VRS to expect an upgrade fee (P.S. I have observed a very active and helpful support in their forums contrary to the experience described by some here, which also takes of Jon and Chris's time), that's your choice. I will leave this post here however, to give you all an objective insight into the behind-the-scenes life of developers which I believe many of you take for granted.

THANK you for this explanation :-)
I've bought last month VRS Tacpack, and I had to pay 12,95 $ to have 2 years of maintenance/ download extension for the Superbug bought some years ago in order to have it TP compatibile. Personally I'm not very keen on firing guns or dropping bombs , this is for me a secondary aspect of my virtual flightsimulation, but I do like to have very sophisticated products
like the Superbug and sometime I like to study how those complex
weapons management systems work. I really appreciate the complexity and the hard work behind a product like this

Oooops , sorry, I'm speaking about FSX, I don't have P3D, but
the main concept expressed above can be valid for both platforms...

[henrystreet]

TacPack does many things besides simulate weapons.

It:
1) can place carriers, air defense systems (that can kill you), and AI traffic
2) has GLOC simulation that can be applied to any aircraft
3) has an NVG effect that can be applied to any aircraft (currently limited to DX9 though)
4) can simulate aerial refueling including aircraft TACAN capability

Paired with the fantastic and free FSX@War, you can create missions, deploy enemy assets and spawn on carriers.

[jmig]

If you back up your downloads somewhere safe, you really don't need to pay the maintenance fee in my opinion.

Storage devices are relatively cheap and easy to set up and use these days.

I make it a point to back up my payware downloads in two places....one of which is a 10TB in a RAID5 configuration.

So, hopefully, I should be good unless some sort of disaster befalls me.

But I have to say that I do see jmig's point about the fee being added when you buy/upgrade to a new product with them.

I feel the same way. I said as much on VRS's site and was invited by VRS Varmint to explain how he was supposed to feed his family. The problem with the fee is that is isn't explained very well, unless you are a frequent forum visitor. This is the first time I had to pay it and frankly it pissed me off, which I said, which pissed off Varmint. I think this fee is a PR disaster for VRS. They obviously need the money. If their asking price isn't enough to pay the bills and have some left over, then they either need to raise the price or close shop. I would rather pay more for the quality they provide than see them close shop. Just be upfront about it.

I support them and their efforts. I think every hard core military pilot will be pleased with the F-18. BTW, I think you need to have TP in order to run the F-18 in PD3 V4.

[Daveroo]

just want to ask,the yearly fee is keep a redownload on the server incase of a failure down the road?...if so,i caan somewhat understand,as we pay here almost yearly to maintain bandwidth ? then i think its fair and id pay it,but as someone else had said,keep your download and keys on an external drive of thumbstick or simular..then reinstall at will..but if the 8 bucks a year is to keep it operating,then i wont buy it at all.

[kdfw]

there is NO requirement to pay 'maintenance fee' to operate the software over one year.

'maintenance fee' is for those who need to download the full installer after one year. periodic patches can be downloaded via the support forum.

think of 'maintenance fee' as 'extended download service' that pmdg imposes on those who lose their original installer.

[jmig]

there is NO requirement to pay 'maintenance fee' to operate the software over one year.

'maintenance fee' is for those who need to download the full installer after one year. periodic patches can be downloaded via the support forum.

think of 'maintenance fee' as 'extended download service' that pmdg imposes on those who lose their original installer.

I don't see that as correct. I have never had to download the entire program, either TP or F-18, after buying. I did HAVE to buy the maintenance fee to buy the V4 version. When I tried to buy it as a previous user upgrade, it required me to buy the maintenance fee before it would give me the discount. I then looked at buying it full price, again it tacked on the $7.95 charge on the bottom. This made the $99.xx become $107.xx.

As I have said before. The fee, in my opinion, is doing VRS more harm than good. It gives a perception of being being taken by the vendor. I don't believe that is true, but as I told Varmint, a customers perception is the customers reality. VRS unfortunately, is caught between a rock and a hard place. We, who love their products, will have to be willing to pay more, if we want to continue to enjoy flying what, in my opinion, is the PMDG or military aircraft.

[Naruto-kun]

To clear confusion, the maintenance fee only had to be paid for those upgrading to v4. But otherwise, when releasing service packs, VRS allows a way around the usual customer portal by putting the installers in the support forums.

[kdfw]

I don't see that as correct. I have never had to download the entire program, either TP or F-18, after buying. I did HAVE to buy the maintenance fee to buy the V4 version. When I tried to buy it as a previous user upgrade, it required me to buy the maintenance fee before it would give me the discount. I then looked at buying it full price, again it tacked on the $7.95 charge on the bottom. This made the $99.xx become $107.xx.

As I have said before. The fee, in my opinion, is doing VRS more harm than good. It gives a perception of being being taken by the vendor. I don't believe that is true, but as I told Varmint, a customers perception is the customers reality. VRS unfortunately, is caught between a rock and a hard place. We, who love their products, will have to be willing to pay more, if we want to continue to enjoy flying what, in my opinion, is the PMDG or military aircraft.

if you want to take advantage of the discount from p3dv3 to p3dv4, then they require a current maintenance agreement (you get the full upgrade discount if you already had maintenance agreement, less if not). this makes sense, you're getting a major update/new product in v4.

again, there's NO maintenance fee you'll need to pay beyond one year of use as previous post asked.

now, if LM released p3dv5 within one year and it broke backwards compatibility and forces a new fa18/tacpack product, you may need to have a current maintenance agreement to take advantage of possible upgrade discount. perfectly fair. or just pay full price. updates and service packs to the fa18 and tacpack are still available from the support forum without a maintenance agreement.

i think recycling the same 'perception' on the internets sows confusion and discontent. vrs isn't out to F their customers. they're working to give us a nice F model.

[edakridge]

Just to further simplify things: The only reason that you need to pay the maintenance fee is if you want to take advantage of the discount.

[Mach3DS]

I've owned TP and SB from the start. and NEVER paid a maintenance fee. IF you're really worried about it, DL the installer and then burn it to DVD or open a free DROPBOX account and save it there. They offer all updates a FULL installers from their forum. So I've never had to redownload EVER from the storefront.

[strykerpsg]

Regarding the maintenance fee, bothersome, sure, but understandable to operate a with a small company. What many may not realize in their angst to burn em at the stake is if you open an account on their forums, they most always put the latest service pack on their forums free of charge. This then just requires you to keep you initial file safe and sound. Also, as someone that's supported them from the beginning, they have always had expiring download links to your original order, year or two most before expiring. They offer then a maintenance fee you can buy should you ever need your initial download link updated to use again. I have used this service before when my HDD died and all files FSX related died with it too.

I too am not a big fan of buying again, but fully understand how small of a team they have and how wonderful their attention to detail is as well. I would love to see it on sale but suspect I will just buy it full price to pay my respects to their hard work and energies. Plus, I suspect the additional funds will support continued development of their F-18F 2 seater which is supposed to have a co-op rear seat and working avionics. Truly a great addition.

[flaviossa]

Don´t understand what fee you guys are talking about? And what is the need to mantain the initial download? You only need the current TP/SB installers and that's all. They can be downloaded for free in the VRS Forum anytime you want. The ONLY thing you need to take care is the email they sent you with your License ID and password. That´s how i allways updated my version here.

[RobM]

I have FSX versions of the Superbug and Tacpack. Does the previous owner discount apply to FSX versions?

Thanks - Rob

[strykerpsg]

I have FSX versions of the Superbug and Tacpack. Does the previous owner discount apply to FSX versions?

Thanks - Rob

Rob, simple answer, No. The discount is for P3Dv3 buyers. I too owned the FSX version and there was no discount, unfortunately.

[alehead]

TacPack is very much available to pro and pro plus users, though we are all automatically thrown into a bag as commercial users. I do not qualify for the academic version and am honest. I am not a student, I am not in flight school. I use my simulator not as an entertainment device, but I really do not count as an academic user, however hard I bend it. On the flip side of the coin however, I am definitely NOT a commercial user. But VRS requires me to pay the commercial rate for use of tacpack. Either this is something related to LM forcing this, or they are just attempting to cash in. Either way, I am effectively priced out and tacpack is something I remember from FSX. I didn?t use it really, but a number of my addons were programmed to use it. If they are v4 capable, I hope the addons are not broken by my inability to purchase TP at a reasonable rate... I certainly don?t see myself buying at any commercial rate...


Andrew Entwistle
Germany

[Naruto-kun]

Buy an academic license in addition to your pro license and then you shouldn't have any legal issues.

[alehead]

With all due respect, that cannot be an acceptable solution to the problem. As far as I understand the installation procedure, the installer appears to know which version of P3D is installed. Just having a licence for P3D Academic is not going to be enough, as I would have nothing installed in that version, just in the Professional version...

Spending the extra 60 or whatever dollars is not a solution...


Andrew Entwistle