VRS TacPack & SuperBug now available for P3dv4

[ReggieC]

Does anyone know the reason they won’t release to a Professional P3Dv4 license?

Reggie

[awstub]

Because they only have a license to develop for the Academic version?

Does anyone know the reason they won’t release to a Professional P3Dv4 license?

Reggie

[spatialpro]

It is no surprise to me that they're charging again for a P3D v4 release and I was braced for this, so to speak. In v3 I was a SB & TP user, but given the price, and my relative lack of SB flying, I'm likely to save money by only buying TP.

I'm also actively looking into the FREE vACMI by SSW as a viable alternative.

I do fly DCS, but the ability to fly anywhere in the world, with a greater variety of aircraft, with things that also go bang, is what keeps me coming back to P3D + TacPack. I also love the TacPack-ed JF Hawk, whereas the Hawk in DCS is still only Early Access after aaaaaggggggeeessss of waiting.

Another alternative I'm looking into is weapons in X-Plane 11, which seem promising. I'm flying more and more XP11 these days, so it'd make sense.

[jmig]

As I recall, when TACPAC first came out, VRS Management said that if they sold it to Professional users, they would no longer have control of selling it to other Pro users. I think, and these are my thoughts only, they were afraid that a flight sim company would buy one or two licenses and then use it for all their sims. Remember, LM's primary market are the corporate flight sim world and military customers of the world. A country like Iran could buy one copy, crack it and then provide it to all their sim locations. Or, maybe LM put pressure on them. I have gleaned from reading posts by Varmint that LM doesn't like VRS. Maybe it is because VRS is Boeing? Regardless to what the reason was, VRS stated that after long discussion a decision was made to only sell to Academic and that decision was final.

[jmig]

Having recently returned from a country where the 'Opposition' strike aircraft drivers think civilians, aid workers, medical volunteers, hospitals and anything 'Red Cross' are legitimate targets I have no interest in dropping bombs or shooting down 'Unsuspecting Airliners' AT ALL Scott.

I'll stick to ROF for my air combat operations, where it's Man to Man without any technical gimmicks.
It's all a matter of personal taste.

Many years ago, I dropped bombs in Vietnam. I understand war and its "collateral damage," a pitiful euphemism, if there ever was one. I was speaking tongue-in-cheek when I said unsuspecting airliners. Obviously, if you want to learn the weapons systems in the VRS F-18, you do so on AI aircraft, and bomb autogen buildings. That being said, I can understand your reluctance to attack "civilian targets."

[jmig]

No Tacpack for me, if I get the occasional urge to blow things up I go to DCS with the Nevada map. For combat flying DCS is lightyears ahead of P3D + TP in terms of immersion, graphics, smoothness, quality of the addon aircraft and systems realism. The only advantage I can think of with P3D and combat flying is that P3D covers the entire globe. The best military jets are developed now for DCS like the Razbam Harrier which is much better than it's FSX/P3D predecessor. Judging by the preview videos the upcoming DCS F/A-18C will blow it's big VRS brother out of the water. Once the Belsimtek DCS F-4E Phantom is ready, I will send the Milviz one I have in P3D to the boneyard.

To all the DCS users out there. Will DCS allow you to operate the sim via external controls and switches in a simpit? Does, it have a version of FSUIPC or something like it? I have never tried DCS. But, I have hear a lot of good things about the program.

[wombat666]

Dude! I was trying to give you advice about getting your VRS Hornet working and you turn around and reply with that! Number 1 I don't shoot down "unsuspecting airliners" for real or in the sim and if you look at the post above the helpful reply I gave you, you will see I was replying with a lighthearted play on the quote another user made. Number 2, if you have such a problem with simulated military aircraft, why would you be on this forum?
I am totally sick of people having a go at others for using military simulators because of real world bull%^$@.
What I do on my PC has nothing to do with the real world and I resent the implication that it does.

Scott, I did say "It's all a matter of personal taste."
Check your PMs, you might see my POV.

[ReggieC]

Thanks John. That being said. I probably would have made a different license decision when I bought P3Dv4.

Cheers and Merry Christmas,
Reggie

[roger-wilco-66]

[...]

I'm also actively looking into the FREE vACMI by SSW as a viable alternative.

[...]

I would gladly pay for that if it would also work on non SSW aircraft!

Cheers,
Mark

[roger-wilco-66]

Thanks John. That being said. I probably would have made a different license decision when I bought P3Dv4.

Cheers and Merry Christmas,
Reggie

I'd use the academic version if I wouldn't also develop for P3D. If one does so one's stuck with the Professional version.

Can't have it all, as it seems. But I won't buy the academic version just to run Tacpack.

My only hope is that maybe someone who is a good coder would start a freeware / open source project that has this functionality.


Cheers,
Mark

[IanHenry]

To all the DCS users out there. Will DCS allow you to operate the sim via external controls and switches in a simpit? Does, it have a version of FSUIPC or something like it? I have never tried DCS. But, I have hear a lot of good things about the program.

Sorry, I can't answer your questions directly, but I can tell you that DCS World is free to download and use, although with just two aircraft but of course you can install it yourself and find the answers to your questions.
It is a truly spectacular simulator and I suspect once you have been "bitten" it could then start costing you money.

Personally I rarely fully master the various weapons systems of the modern aircraft (that would involve quite a lot of time) but I enjoy just flying them around.


Try it and see for yourself.

Ian

[henrystreet]

To all the DCS users out there. Will DCS allow you to operate the sim via external controls and switches in a simpit? Does, it have a version of FSUIPC or something like it? I have never tried DCS. But, I have hear a lot of good things about the program.

Full disclosure: I haven't actually dug into this...

DCS has native Lua scripting builtin. In fact a lot of the addons and components are run by Lua programs. Regards the interfaces between hardware simpit and the simulator, there are at least a couple of options. One of the options (the acronym name is escaping me) is designed specifically for controlling the VC's of the aircraft.

Sorry I don't have more information...on vacay with wife and child right now so flightsim time is restricted :-(

[Naruto-kun]

2c here to those comparing VRS to Milviz and other devs and complaining about the upgrade price (P.S. I don't work for VRS but having spent 7 years in this industry working for Milviz I do have the perspective of just what sort of sacrifices are often made to make these products).

1: The "maintenance" charge is a legit fee to cover server costs. VRS largely bypasses this though by releasing installers in their support forums when they do upgrades. Milviz can largely get away with lower profit margins due to not charging clients for this service because of the shear number of prodcuts we have available. We have 29. VRS has 1 aircraft, 1 utility (add 1 to each of the preceding if you count the separate P3D/FSX versions), and 3 scenery packages. That's only 5 products. These things don't sell like hotcakes. For a military addon, 1000 sales is a blockbuster release.

2: With the previous in mind, Jon Blum has hired new developers for upcoming products who have to be paid as well. But otherwise the core VRS team consists of 2 people. Jon Blum and Chris Tracy. Chris has a fulltime job to take care of and is the key guy behind the difficult programming that makes VRS products so good. And believe me, creating an aircraft to the level VRS has achieved is not your run-of-the-mill task that some of the other mil aircraft devs have. It is replicating almost single-handedly a feat of engineering that took a whole team of engineers years to complete. Yes it is a lot easier since it is virtual, not real, and we have the luxury of working backwards from the finished product, but the amount of things to design and keep track of is far greater than most of you can appreciate. Jon is full time VRS with a family to support. By comparison, Milviz is over 20 people, many of them part time or able to get income from other lines, with a few full timers and of course Colin has more than one source of income.

If you still think it is less than fair of VRS to expect an upgrade fee (P.S. I have observed a very active and helpful support in their forums contrary to the experience described by some here, which also takes of Jon and Chris's time), that's your choice. I will leave this post here however, to give you all an objective insight into the behind-the-scenes life of developers which I believe many of you take for granted.

[jmig]

2c here to those comparing VRS to Milviz and other devs and complaining about the upgrade price (P.S. I don't work for VRS but having spent 7 years in this industry working for Milviz I do have the perspective of just what sort of sacrifices are often made to make these products).

1: The "maintenance" charge is a legit fee to cover server costs. VRS largely bypasses this though by releasing installers in their support forums when they do upgrades. Milviz can largely get away with lower profit margins due to not charging clients for this service because of the shear number of prodcuts we have available. We have 29. VRS has 1 aircraft, 1 utility (add 1 to each of the preceding if you count the separate P3D/FSX versions), and 3 scenery packages. That's only 5 products. These things don't sell like hotcakes. For a military addon, 1000 sales is a blockbuster release.

2: With the previous in mind, Jon Blum has hired new developers for upcoming products who have to be paid as well. But otherwise the core VRS team consists of 2 people. Jon Blum and Chris Tracy. Chris has a fulltime job to take care of and is the key guy behind the difficult programming that makes VRS products so good. And believe me, creating an aircraft to the level VRS has achieved is not your run-of-the-mill task that some of the other mil aircraft devs have. It is replicating almost single-handedly a feat of engineering that took a whole team of engineers years to complete. Yes it is a lot easier since it is virtual, not real, and we have the luxury of working backwards from the finished product, but the amount of things to design and keep track of is far greater than most of you can appreciate. Jon is full time VRS with a family to support. By comparison, Milviz is over 20 people, many of them part time or able to get income from other lines, with a few full timers and of course Colin has more than one source of income.

If you still think it is less than fair of VRS to expect an upgrade fee (P.S. I have observed a very active and helpful support in their forums contrary to the experience described by some here, which also takes of Jon and Chris's time), that's your choice. I will leave this post here however, to give you all an objective insight into the behind-the-scenes life of developers which I believe many of you take for granted.

Thank your for the explanation. I now understand and will upgrade.

[jmig]

Sorry, I can't answer your questions directly, but I can tell you that DCS World is free to download and use, although with just two aircraft but of course you can install it yourself and find the answers to your questions.
It is a truly spectacular simulator and I suspect once you have been "bitten" it could then start costing you money.

Personally I rarely fully master the various weapons systems of the modern aircraft (that would involve quite a lot of time) but I enjoy just flying them around.


Try it and see for yourself.

Ian

I have downloaded the product and bought the Flaming Cliffs and Nevada Red Flag packages. I will have to do some reading, however.

[scotth6]

I have downloaded the product and bought the Flaming Cliffs and Nevada Red Flag packages. I will have to do some reading, however.

Just FYI, I believe Eagle Dynamics (DCS) are close to merging version 1.5 and version 2 in to a new version called version 2.5. It sounds like you are just starting with version 2 (as that is the only version with the Nevada terrain) so it shouldn't be an issue. I would suggest checking out their forums for heaps of info and news. If you sign up to the newsletter they will send it out around once a week. There are also constant upgrades to the sim, but that is handled automatically. There also ways to upgrade manually, if you don't want to upgrade a certain time you open the sim for example. All good info regarding this and more about the sim and all the modules can be found on the ED forum.

https://forums.eagle.ru/?langid=1

Cheers,

[awstub]

Great post Naruto-kun.
Having spoken with other devs, I know that what you say is absolutely true.
Flight simming is a niche market anyway....and the military part of it is even more so.

[awstub]

I have played around with DCS (LOVE the A-10C) and I'm pretty sure it can work with simpits....but I haven't paid too much attention to it, since I'm not in a position to build a pit myself.

DCS has so many great features..... but the "world" you can fly in is limited. If it offered the whole world, I would ditch P3D and never look back.

To all the DCS users out there. Will DCS allow you to operate the sim via external controls and switches in a simpit? Does, it have a version of FSUIPC or something like it? I have never tried DCS. But, I have hear a lot of good things about the program.

[Stickshaker]

Great post Naruto-kun.
Having spoken with other devs, I know that what you say is absolutely true.
Flight simming is a niche market anyway....and the military part of it is even more so.

I fully agree.

There is a DCS forum right here at SOH, and Phantom88 does a great job of keeping us informed. He even shares Facebook information.

[kdfw]

just got the p3dv4 version from the fsx version. well worth the asking price and glad to support the guys at vrs. i look at it this way: for the price of few screen shot queens (looking at you carenado), i get an accurate rendition of one of the most advanced strike fighters on my desktop.

the ability to fly anywhere in the world in real time wx and the tacpack enabled avionics/sensors is just precious.

[RobM]

Yes, I will probably pick up the pair at some point too. I miss the Superbug, and I would like to see how Dino's Eurofighter
performs in v4 with Tacpack added. But like others here, I was hoping there would be a bigger discount for previous users.

When I picked up the Superbug and Tacpack for FSX, I was working and the Canadian dollar was much stronger
against other currencies. Now I'm retired, with only a fraction of the income, and the Canadian dollar is pretty weak.
The cost, even buying each separately, is going to take a big chunk out of currently available income.

Oh well, maybe next spring once bills are out of the way, or as was said earlier, maybe there will be a sale with
an additional discount.

Merry Christmas! - Rob

ps: but where's the little breaky lightbulbs?

[docjohnson]

Pay for hours spent working on creating an iteration of a product to improve and/or add new features is not wrong. And if that amount of work basically equals creation of brand new product, the pay should equal it as well. I'm paying for a military simulation because I've had a passion and profession for military history and aviation since I was 17. I want the best, and VRS is the standard, in fact their works in this arena are the first I remember but I could be wrong. No doubt there other quality developers in the military arena, but VRS is still with us producing more excellent products and since I see their products that way, I'll be updating my p3d v4 after gladly paying the price they ask.

[Stinger]

Pay for hours spent working on creating an iteration of a product to improve and/or add new features is not wrong. And if that amount of work basically equals creation of brand new product, the pay should equal it as well. I'm paying for a military simulation because I've had a passion and profession for military history and aviation since I was 17. I want the best, and VRS is the standard, in fact their works in this arena are the first I remember but I could be wrong. No doubt there other quality developers in the military arena, but VRS is still with us producing more excellent products and since I see their products that way, I'll be updating my p3d v4 after gladly paying the price they ask.

Amen Brother, .. proud supporter of VRS products from day 1 and beta tester of the 1st Hornet way back in 04.we finally have a hornet with a stinger,😁

[vora]

I'm a TacPack newbie, but as a simmer since FS2 and a modder since FS4 I can at least state so much:
TacPack works its way deep into the simulation engine, so a switch to 64bit probably requires a lot of recoding, depending on what libraries they used. Other developers have to recode one or two dlls, or just have to alter the installer.
Also consider that TacPack is a niche within a niche. Their sales numbers are probably nowhere near anything to brag about. As Naruto-kun already expanded on it is a difference whether you have one selling point or twenty.
If you begrudge them their shirt on the back then - for God's sake - leave an FSX or P3D3 version on your disk, so you can throw stuff without paying again for a 32bit code you bought years ago.

With 64bit we are at a crossroad we were all longing for. I happily pay the price for the next generation sim platform, be it VRS or A2A. IMHO with P3Dv4 and it's surprising backward compability we tend to be a little spoiled. At least I am.

Just my 2 pence.
Merry Christmas, y'all

[spatialpro]

I would gladly pay for that if it would also work on non SSW aircraft!

It can be integrated into any aircraft you desire, plus it is 100% free.