Carenado WIP: Beech D18 - Page 4
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Thread: Carenado WIP: Beech D18

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by blanston12 View Post
    Looking at that EULA again, lets break it down.
    You can't say that any of these conditions are only applicable if its done for a commercial purpose, you certainly can't give your friends free copies of your packages. Since the .air file is a binary file, you could argue you can't really modify it without having a program 'disassemble' it first.
    Hmmm, good point.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by tailspin45 View Post
    Milton's is best there is, as far as I'm concerned. Sounds and flies right
    Just installed Miltons Beech and flying his version at 2000ft, 180kts, no pax no payload, 50% fuel, I need 4 sec for an aileron roll to the left and 5sec to the right. With the Carenado version the figures are 5sec and 6sec.
    I honestly don't understand the outcry that the Carenado version 'flies nothing like the real thing' has unrealistic 'fighter like performance/handling' since Miltons Beech rolls even quicker.
    Roll inertia is also very similar (which should be impossible according to an 'expert' here looking at the MOI numbers).

    Talking about Milton I'd like to add that I know him since many years and for me he's by far the highest respected, knowledgeable member in the flightsim community and I truly admire him for his always gentlemanlike and very polite behavior.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
    (which should be impossible according to an 'expert' here looking at the MOI numbers).

    Talking about Milton I'd like to add that I know him since many years and for me he's by far the highest respected, knowledgeable member in the flightsim community and I truly admire him for his always gentlemanlike and very polite behavior.
    I qualified my experience and/or lack there of. You still have not.

    Shame knowing Milton did not rub some of his gentlemen-like and polite demeanor on to some folks he knows.

    "Gonna do the damage till the damage is done."
    -- Queens of the Stone Age

  4. #79
    Just purchased and downloaded the Beech.
    Watched the cockpit videos....with stopwatch.

    Gonna go fly the new model.
    (BTW...have tons of hours in Milton's version.)

    Anyone want to guess the first thing I'm going to do????

    I'll take requests for inflight video to post as memorial to the occasion.

    BTW
    BTW
    We had a D-18 when I was a kid. Can't honestly remember how long it took to do a full aileron roll.
    He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
    Thomas Jefferson

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  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
    And? Where's the problem? I'm loving it when people are getting personal for no reason (see your previous post) and they don't know what they are talking about.
    You know I completely get that some folks have more developed subtlety and social skills than others. And, that social skills are not correlated to technical skills. So, in the spirit of this forum, "it is better to be helpful than right", I will lay it out in spades.


    On the one hand, we have a person (let's call them Pilot B), a professional pilot, hundreds of hours in the Beech D18S, flew it commercially, wrote an FAA manual for it, and is a positive contributor to the community. Pilot B bought the Carenado model, then, using his experience and expertise, compiled a well documented bug list (mostly in the cockpit) that was submitted without malice to the developer. Oh, and by the way, uses his real name so you confirm his qualifications and expertise.


    On the other hand, we have a person (let's call them Commenter A), a forum lurker, who does not use their real name or have any documented expertiese concerning the Beech D18S (or flightsim even). According to Commenter A, his stated expertise is knowing Milton Shupe for many years.


    So Pilot B applies his experience and expertise and within hours is attacked by Commenter A. No one is 100% right all of the time, even Pilot B. But Commenter A doesn't try to understand at all, instead applying whatever undisclosed (and maybe irrelevant) experience, they attack Pilot B. All the while hiding behind anonymity and forum PMs.


    I ask you, who are we supposed to believe or even deal with? My parents were close friends of Charley Pride for much of the 1960's but that hardly qualifies me as a country music expert.


    For Commenter A to attack the knowledge, experience and expertise of Pilot B who made an entire career out of commercial pilotage (much of it in the D18S) is the height of hubrus and foolishness. If you do not see this, you might want to consider empathy classes.


    To question, to vigorously discuss, and to demonstrate expertise is all good. Hell, even encouraged. To repeat, Pilot B may be mistaken by virtue of a hundred reasons. But, Commenter A has only demonstrated expertise in trolling and refuses to participate in a human way to further everyone's knowledge.


    Sorry, at this point, I'm aboard Pilot B's D18S, even if not perfect. Commenter A has no demonstrated or even explained expertise.

    "Gonna do the damage till the damage is done."
    -- Queens of the Stone Age

  6. #81
    It is interesting how flight dynamics have become "the new black". It used to be systems depth, then fidelity of detail and textures, now everybody is an FD officianado. What's next? The quality of the checklist?

  7. #82
    Good post Henrystreet! Please keep things from being personal. We have a great aircraft here. Enjoy it and make constructive comments. I have Milton's Beech D18 and love it. No doubt I will be getting the Carenado version as well from what I see here and the release post that I stickied.

    Constructive comments please.
    Last edited by stovall; July 13th, 2018 at 06:30.
    Regards, Tom Stovall, KRDD


  8. #83
    I seem to be spending a lot more time lately being underwhelmed by the crap some people think they know...

    seems to happen only whenever I'm paying any attention at all to the crap those people say.

    the good news is that the feeling goes away completely when I stop, so - problem solved I guess
    enter..the Sandman

  9. #84
    The Carenado D18 is a wonderful example. I am thankful for their development and I am totally happy to have purchased it. Money well spent. I too Love the Shupe example and have no preference of one over the other. I appreciate them for all the effort involved in bringing them to us to enjoy. I have purchased a lot of payware over the years... some good, some not so good. I LOVE Flightsimming....and believe totally in supporting the community that keeps this hobby what it is. The developers out there keep raising the bar and we should all be grateful. If you want "perfect" flight dynamics for a Beech 18 experience..... go out and Fly a real one! Opinions and criticisms aired-out on an internet forum can, and possibly has, prevented a developer from doing something amazing in the future. It is heartbreaking when a developer throws in the towel. We all need to be reminded of that.

  10. #85
    When did Milton & Co. first release their Beech 18 series....was it still with FS2002...?

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by MustangL2W View Post
    1.The Carenado D18 is a wonderful example. I am thankful for their development and I am totally happy to have purchased it. Money well spent.
    2.If you want "perfect" flight dynamics for a Beech 18 experience..... go out and Fly a real one!
    3.Opinions and criticisms aired-out on an internet forum can, and possibly has, prevented a developer from doing something amazing in the future. It is heartbreaking when a developer throws in the towel.
    1. I'm happy that you didn't loose interest in the Carenado version despite tailspin45s claim that the Carenado version flies nothing like the real thing.

    2. Exactly. The D18 roll rate is a good example. The yoke on the D18 rotates 90deg in each direction and an average joystick approx 25deg. This makes the simulated D18 almost 4 times more 'sensitive' than the real one.
    There's simply no way to recreate 'only' the 'correct' handling with a joystick or a cheap yoke.
    If you are using an expensive control loading yoke that rotates 90deg, the experience will be much closer to the real one, but still a far cry away from flying the real thing.

    3. That's unfortunately true. I opted for another way since I love flying and flightsimming since many decades. I 'officially' stopped developing high quality FDEs a long time ago and I'm trying to refrain from posting as much as possible.
    If you want to experience pure whining and developer bashing head over to the 'other' forum. Although it seems that since Jim Young has taken over, it's starting to become a much more friendly place.
    SOH is the only forum I 'could' enjoy. But as you can easily tell in this thread, it was unfortunately a good idea not to reveal my identity.
    I'd love to take part in FDE discussions but I've had such bad experiences with customers I finally gave up.
    Again the D18 is a good example. Even with many decades of RL flying and FDE developing experience, I know that I wouldn't had a chance at the 'other' forum if a RL D18 pilot states that the Carenado D18 has a crap FDE, although it turns out that this apparently isn't the case.
    Last edited by bbrz; July 11th, 2018 at 20:46.

  12. #87

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
    3. . . . . . . . .SOH is the only forum I 'could' enjoy. But as you can easily tell in this thread, it was unfortunately a good idea not to reveal my identity.
    I'd love to take part in FDE discussions but I've had such bad experiences with customers I finally gave up.
    I am looking in from the outside on this discussion simply because I know nothing about FDE's and won't be purchasing the Carenado Beech 18 (I've got Milton's which is plenty for me).

    This community has quite a few FDE guru's, all well known, all widely accepted, all very competent, so I'm curious about why it is that you feel that revealing your true identity would be so detrimental to you? If you intend to portray yourself as an expert, then I suggest you drop the melodramatics and let everyone know what your true background is and who you actually are. . .otherwise nothing you say can be taken seriously.
    USAF Retired, 301st Fighter Wing, Carswell AFB, Texas
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  14. #89
    Fear not. I will not make the error to post here ever again.

  15. #90
    Clear and Direct - there is no other way to be, Falcon
    and by the reply it was effective
    enter..the Sandman

  16. #91
    Just a couple of comments from the "Shupester"

    1) My original D18S was released in 2005 for FS2002 and FS2004. I did the FDE using Jerry Beckwith's FD Worksheet and tuned it to my liking.
    Just FYI; I have never flown in any aircraft from the left or right seat.
    My latest release of the FSX native D18S has the same FDE with minor tweaks as the original.
    I was a novice then; I am an FDE novice now and rely on Airwrench to give me the basic performance and handling results. Then I tweak handling to suit my tastes.

    2) I am saddened by how this thread has devolved and the obvious piling on of a member. That is unacceptable.

    3) I have known, worked with, and respected "bbrz" since 2001-2 in developing my very first aircraft. He was instrumental in providing tons of data (Full RL POH), reference pictures, hours of videos, advice and counseling on the aircraft he piloted for so many years. He has many hours of pilot time in singles, twins, quads, and jet airliners. I also know that he authored the FDE's for many payware aircraft that people here love. He also did the FDE for one of my more recent releases. English is not his primary language.

    With that said, I ask that you focus on being helpful and treat all members as you would like to be treated.

    Thanks
    Milton out ... :-)
    Milton Shupe
    FS9/FSX Modeler Hack

    Video Tutorials - Gmax for Beginners My Uploads on SOH

  17. #92
    Senior Administrator Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    .
    With that said, I ask that you focus on being helpful and treat all members as you would like to be treated.

    Thanks
    Milton out ... :-)
    Just to add to what Milton said, it was often said by one of the founders of SOH, "Let being helpful be more important than being right".
    So many aeroplanes needing paint, so little time to do it.

  18. #93
    I apoligize for my part in it. Yesterday was a rough day. I come to this forum to
    get some relief. When discourse like this occurs again Iíll just walk away and remind myself
    it can happen anywhere. Lately it seems to be happening everywhere..like a new Ďnormalí
    enter..the Sandman

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