Carenado WIP: Beech D18

**henrystreet** · July 10th, 2018, 14:14

70 deg per sec is the published roll rate for several WWII fighters including the P-38 and F4F. talk about the Carenado model having fighter like performance!

**heywooood** · July 10th, 2018, 14:41

all developers are different but I think today, as a rule, all add on aircraft releases are beta..to be tested in the wild over a far wider field of equipment and consumer knowledge - then adjusted by the developer according to PROPER feedback.

if you have bought the product, evaluated it, and responded to the developers own website, gotten no reply let alone repair after a reasonable time period..then I suppose grousing about it here would be understandable. But when I hear people say 'this should never have been released in this state' after less than a WEEK I just scratch my head. lol

I have not bought it yet and never buy anything like it in the first week - for just this reason. The airplane is beautiful. In 3-6 months it will be even better, and likely on sale somewhere.
To all of the customers making serious squawks to Carenado on their website or to their email I thank you. I'm sure you will be satisfied in due time.

**bbrz** · July 10th, 2018, 14:47

Originally Posted by tailspin45

70 deg per sec is the published roll rate for several WWII fighters including the P-38 and F4F. talk about the Carenado model having fighter like performance!

And? Where's the problem? I'm loving it when people are getting personal for no reason (see your previous post) and they don't know what they are talking about.
Unfortunately this most of the time goes hand in hand.

Maybe you can read or use a stopwatch better than tailspin45. Just check how long it takes for Matt to roll the Beech the remaining 90deg of the aileron roll:
https://youtu.be/9Jk83zZXhBI?t=179

@tailspin45. Did you notice that he's even reducing the aileron travel at the last part...talk about embarrassing...

**heywooood** · July 10th, 2018, 14:53

tag team is puerile at best...this site has devolved somewhat -or maybe it's just the weather. Seems to me we see this garbage more during the summer months lol

**henrystreet** · July 10th, 2018, 14:59

Originally Posted by bbrz

And? Where's the problem? I'm loving it when people are getting personal for no reason (see your previous post) and they don't know what they are talking about.

You have 31 posts, none signed with any kind of real name. No demonstrated experience or expertise and you expect everyone else to bow to your little tarts of wisdom. I qualified my knowledge, how about you?

PS you still afraid of posting at Avsim?

**magoo** · July 10th, 2018, 15:07

Originally Posted by henrystreet

70 deg per sec is the published roll rate for several WWII fighters including the P-38 and F4F. talk about the Carenado model having fighter like performance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsu3hiP1ikQ

**henrystreet** · July 10th, 2018, 15:11

Originally Posted by magoo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsu3hiP1ikQ

Har! thanks for that one. I saw this movie as a first run at the drive in!

***Roger*** · July 10th, 2018, 15:12

Just so everyone understands, this thread is being closely watched. If it devolves much more it will be closed.

**Ivan** · July 10th, 2018, 15:18

Originally Posted by henrystreet

70 deg per sec is the published roll rate for several WWII fighters including the P-38 and F4F. talk about the Carenado model having fighter like performance!

70 Degrees per second is actually very mediocre rolling performance for a fighter of that era but what do you expect out of something as big as the P-38 Lightning.
It also matters what the airspeed is for that roll rate.
If you really want to see a fantastic roll rate, check out this video at about 1:55-2:05.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8-hoY0DGYg

- Ivan.

**gman5250** · July 10th, 2018, 15:18

I'm going to purchase it tomorrow just to evaluate it for myself.

Sure glad they make SDKs for those folks who want to build to spec.

**tailspin45** · July 10th, 2018, 15:36

Originally Posted by ********

I'm going to purchase it tomorrow just to evaluate it for myself.

Welcome to the club!

Reminds me of the joke about the guy who goes to the refrigerator, get out out a carton of milk and says, "Yuk, this stinks. Here, smell!" Maybe that's me?

That said, you'll be glad you did if they fix everything and make it the great aircraft it can be.

Breaker, breaker, good buddy.

Regarding the Mad, Mad, Mad World clip, I stood outside that hangar, before they tore it down, and pondered what it would have been like to fly through it in a Twin Beech.

And then I remembered Corky Fornoff did it in a little Bede Jet, too.

What I didn't know at the time was that a serious concern was how much air was displaced by the aircraft and how quickly.

The problem was you could blow the roof off the place, even with the doors open on both ends!

**gman5250** · July 10th, 2018, 16:00

Won't know until I fly the airplane, but I own every Carenado in the inventory and love them all.

I don't, as a rule, reverse engineer payware aircraft. I wait for the devs to do their updates, which are part and parcel of the development process.
I use the SDK to develop aircraft that have not yet been created for sim, or update older releases with the permission of the original developer.

My point about the SDK was to point to the fact that the tools are available for everyone to begin with a blank canvas and create to their own requirements.

**mongo55** · July 10th, 2018, 20:02

Hi all: I think this may be the first time I posted on this forum. Anyway, I compared the Carenado FDE with FDE's from other commercial and freeware Beech 18's and made some changes. The plane is now a lot more stable and enjoyable. I checked with Avsim and Carenado to seek if I could post my changes. Carenado responded by thanking me for my feedback. So I posted my changes on the Avsim Carenado forum. I'll post them here if it's OK with the administrators. Also, I'm a lawyer, not a pilot or flightsim expert. Thus, please feel free to post bad lawyer jokes, but don't beat me up to badly about my FDE changes. Mike Gutierrez, North Hollywood, California.

***falcon409*** · July 11th, 2018, 01:38

I could be wrong Mongo (a bad habit of mine), but thanking you for your feedback doesn't sound like a clearance to post changes, rather just a "thanks a lot and we'll look into it" reply. If they had said "yes, by all means please post any changes you wish". . .then I'd say you had every reason to go forward and post what you changed. They may very well take your changes and use them as is or modify them to their liking, however the airplane hasn't been out very long and Carenado has some obvious fixes to comply with so. . . .thin ice here I would think. . .and as an Attorney I would think you'd have known that. But, as I said, I could be wrong.

**tailspin45** · July 11th, 2018, 05:44

On this whole FDE issue, where is it written that an AIR file, or any other component, can't be shared for non-commercial purposes?

I don't ask that as a challenge to anyone, by the way, but strictly for informational purposes. It would be helpful if we had some facts to go by on this issue.

With a lawyer in our midst, perhaps we can learn something about intellectual property and copyright issues that might be involved here.

If I buy a product—sim, software, music, or whatever—and send a copy of it to someone, it's clear to me that is unlawful, akin to stealing.

But if I buy a car and modify the code in the chip that controls the engine not only can I share it, apparently, but there are companies that sell such add-ons.

Is that any different than sharing (or even, gasp, selling) a modified FDE?

(I wonder if this should be a new thread?)

**dvj** · July 11th, 2018, 06:10

Carenado owns the rights to that FDE and when you bought the product, you agreed to the terms and conditions. It's like changing the lyrics of a song and republishing it. Rather than publish the modded FDE, maybe just say what you did so that other's can experiment privately?

The D18 is a pretty sweet model as it is.

**tailspin45** · July 11th, 2018, 06:20

Carenado's Terms and Conditions aren't relevant to this disussion, but the End User License Agreement is.

To answer my own question, it's very specific:

All the material contained in this SOFTWARE PRODUCT is exclusive copyright of Carenado and no part of any of the models contained in this package, or any other files within, in part or in whole, may be copied, re-distributed, disassembled, re-packaged or in any way be exploited for any commercial purpose without the express permission of Carenado.

Emphasis mine.

**mal998** · July 11th, 2018, 07:12

Regarding flight dynamics there are a few videos out there that show off the D18's flight capabilites. Here is just one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0mk3c6TLmE

Now as far as rolls are concerned have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RYZTr9gzuQ

Also there are several pilot reports on flying the Beech D18. Very informative. http://www.pilotweb.aero/features/fl...itor-1-4923761

**tailspin45** · July 11th, 2018, 07:31

Whoa! That second video is, um, incriminating, isn't it!

It demonstrates essentially the same roll rate as Younkin's very light aircraft, too, which is interesting.

Loved the article you found. Brits have a way with the English language, don't they.

Good video I just stumbled on at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1qSzCnzXvY. Lots of interesting tidbits, but very choppy editing.

**Obie311** · July 11th, 2018, 08:05

re: the FDE characteristics

Milton's 18 flys like a dream in my humble estimation. How does the Carenado compare to that?

***blanston12*** · July 11th, 2018, 08:11

Looking at that EULA again, lets break it down.

All the material contained in this SOFTWARE PRODUCT is exclusive copyright of Carenado and no part of any of the models contained in this package, or any other files within, in part or in whole,
1) may be copied,
2) re-distributed,
3) disassembled,
4) re-packaged
5) or in any way be exploited for any commercial purpose

without the express permission of Carenado.

You can't say that any of these conditions are only applicable if its done for a commercial purpose, you certainly can't give your friends free copies of your packages. Since the .air file is a binary file, you could argue you can't really modify it without having a program 'disassemble' it first.

Having said that, giving instructions how to do it would be considered free speech and you would be on firm legal grounds to do so, although this site could have its own rules on that, and I won't comment on those (since I don't know).

***wombat666*** · July 11th, 2018, 08:20

Just to reiterate Roger's comment, this subject is being monitored 24/7 and the simple facts are 'No, you really can't mod the FDE'......

Semantics and dancing around the issue does not make it legal, do it in the privacy of your own hanger but keep it there if you must.
End of discussion 'Ladies'.
Just wait and Carenado will patch it if needed.