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Thread: Junkers Ju-52/3m

  1. #51
    Hello Smilo,
    OK! Thanks for your interest.
    Meanwhile I also found a series of pictures of two g4e specimens with a cockpit gun recovered from a Norwegian lake in 1986 and beautifully restored in a Museum in Norway and in Wunstorf, Germany.
    Detailed photos with better perspective show a centred cockpit machine-gun ring position, so I can correct that. Also, more or less, what I have in yellow for the g3e bomber that served in Crete and Greece, can be black for this version, and the green can be a greyish black, so there can be two liveries of the armed version.
    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  2. #52

    Some military markings...

    Hello Folks,
    It appears that the machine gun fitted to a ring on the top of the cockpit was a field-mounted option on versions g3e through g6e, and as of the ge7 it was fixed, and had a glazed cupola over it.

    Anyway, I now have military markings on the green-version with yellow engine cowls and rudder, as employed in the Balkans - this unit was 10/3 "J". Parts count on this model is at 148.4% now - Iīve managed to optimize resources a bit so as to get Ivanīs improved propeller blurs onto the model. This always adds some ambience!

    Here are some new screenshots of the German military version!

    This version is in effect a Ju-52/3m g5e, that had the more powerful Hp BMw 132-T2 engines - 830 Hp at 2400 RPM, still with 2-bladed, 2-pitch position propellers, delivering a top S.L. speed of 183 mph, and 192 mph higher up.

    The beautifully restored museum units recovered from the Norwegian lake in 1986 seem to be 725 Hp engined g4e models in a darker colour scheme, which I am currently working on - no lighter colour on wing under-surfaces here, probably indicating that they were night-fliers, and engine nacelles and nose are black.

    The next step will be to make a decent virtual cockpit with SCASM like we had on the Dornier 17, which should pose no problem.

    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails J-1.jpg   J-2.jpg   J-3.jpg  
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  3. #53
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    the weekend has come and gone
    and yet another is rapidly approaching.
    my apologies, but, mama's bathroom faucets
    take precedence over flight sim models.
    that's my excuse and i'm stickin' to it.
    hopefully, i'll make the time
    to have a look at your model soon.

    i hate to ask at this late date,
    but, what the hell...i'm old.
    would it be possible and not be too much of a pain,
    to have german transport/paratroop carrier
    without the external guns?
    don't be afraid to say know.
    i'm just asking.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  4. #54
    Hello Smilo,
    OK by me!
    No problem in taking away the guns for an unarmed logistics/paratrooper transport.

    Iīm having some difficulty with a camouflaged version of the corrugated aluminium
    textures, so I would suggest an unarmed g5e with the green/yellow livery and the
    830 Hp engines. Here is one with an authentic registration number, or so it would
    seem... The only difference with my version would be the yellow elevator, but that
    will be no problem.
    Strange about the 3-bladed propellers, though. That would make it one of the latest
    models with
    the 850 Hp engines, but it doesnīt coincide with the units that were sent
    to Crete.

    Update: Look at the second picture I just found - the picture on the right!
    Itīs the same plane but with 2-bladed props.
    This would be the correct one, so you will be in luck indeed!

    Crazy, how one has to be careful about information on the net...

    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails JU52-3M ltg-63.jpg   JU52-3m Unarmed.jpg  
    Last edited by aleatorylamp; January 11th, 2018 at 15:03.
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  5. #55
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    yup, that would be the one.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  6. #56

    The 3 planned versions

    Hello Smilo,

    Fine! So then, if you agree, we could plan this new collection
    of Ju-52/3m airplanes as follows:

    1) Unarmed transport for paratroopers, troops and logistics,
    model e5g, in green/yellow Balkan campaign livery, with
    3x830Hp BMW132T-2 engines and 183 mph top S.L. speed.

    2) CASA 352L unarmed trainer, transport and paradropper, in
    grey/light blue Spanish Air Force livery, with 3x775Hp Erizalde
    Beta B-4 engines and 175 mph top S.L. speed.

    3) Armed transport unit model e4g as recovered from the Norwegian
    Lake in 1986, with dorsal and cockpit machine guns, in night-flier
    camo livery in dark-green / khakhi-green / black, if it comes out
    OK, with 3x725Hp BMW132-A3 engines and a top S.L. speed of 165 mph.

    I think it will be best to discard the eg3 auxiliary bomber version,
    as was used in the Spanish Civil War and against Austria. This model
    turned out not to be useful for WW2, and was only a stop-gap until the
    Dornier and Heinkel bombers became available, and most of the Ju-52/3m
    auxiliary bombers were re-converted into transports.

    Apart from weak defensive armament, it required the bomb-aimer to be
    in a cumbersome retractable "dust-bin" underneath the plane between the
    wheels. It was the only place to get a good view of the objective, and
    was also the defensive ventral aft-firing gunner position, but was quite
    laborious to extend and caused a lot of drag.

    This "dust-bin", also called "stew-pot" or "night-pot", was eliminated on
    subsequent models, except for 12 e4g units that were turned into gunships
    or bomber escorts, with 5 machine guns: dorsal, cockpit, lateral and ventral.

    There arenīt enough parts left over on the AF99 model to make this "dust-bin"
    and its inhabitant anyway, so I will leave it out.

    So, if you think this is a good plan, we can go ahead with it!
    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  7. #57
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    agreed...it sound like a very good plan.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  8. #58

    Possible transparent cockpit

    Hello Smilo,
    Thanks for confirming!

    Your German yellow-green unarmed transport is done, and as parts
    count is now only at 135%,
    I was thinking of trying to make a transparent
    cockpit for it,
    with two inhabitants, similar to what Ivan helped me with on
    the AT-9 Jeep, but perhaps without the seat-backs.

    With 120 parts to
    spare now, and a few structures and components,
    it may work out very nicely.
    By the way, this is not possible for the
    CASA 352L - the parts are taken up by the
    supercharger air-intakes
    on top of the engine cowlings and also the bullet-shaped antenna on
    the roof, which the German version
    doesnīt have.

    Incidentally, for the CASA 352L, I just found out that the Spanish
    Erizalde B-3 (750 Hp) and B-4 (775 Hp) engines were not licence-built
    BMW132īs (i.e. Hornets) at all, but licence-built Wright Cyclone R-1820īs.

    So when they ran out of German BMW132īs, they used those, as
    Erizalde had the licence to build them.


    To differentiate between previous CASA 352 units with the German
    engines and the later Spanish ones, to avoid confusion with spare
    parts, the CASA 352 nomenclature changed from T.2 to T.2B, as
    the Erizalde engines had metric measurements.


    The Spanish Air Force also had a number of identical 700-800 Hp
    Shvetzov M25, Russian licence-built Wright Cyclone R-1820 engines
    for their Polikarpov Rata / Mosca fighters, so the mechanics were
    familiar with it. Cylinder displacement and Compression Ratio were
    slightly higher, which would account for the higher power output.


    I have modified the engine parameters accordingly, for the .air file
    of the CASA 325L, just for the sake of accuracy, although previous
    performance, also with 775 Hp, is basically the same.


    Iīll also modify the engine bitmap, as this one didnīt have the gapped
    circular cover infront of the engine housing.

    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  9. #59

    Unarmed Transport model - WIP

    Hello Smilo,
    I just thought you would enjoy a preview model of your
    unarmed transport, the green/yellow 1Z+IK, while I try
    and make the transparent cockpit and do the virtual
    one for the upload version.
    Note the Lufttransportgeschwader 63 emblem
    on the nose! ...(Air Transport Wing 63).
    Enjoy!

    Update:
    Preliminary trials for the transparent cockpit result in insufficient
    parts for pilot and co-pilot figures - there can only be one pilot.
    This, apart from the bleeds, which Iīm figuring out the glue
    sequence for, or rather against... is the present situation.
    Is it worth pursuing if there is only one cockpit inhabitant?


    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Transport.jpg  
    Last edited by aleatorylamp; January 12th, 2018 at 13:38.
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  10. #60
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    thank you, Stephan, i've got it.
    am anxious to check her out.

    as for the transparent cockpit
    with only one figure;
    i'd say yes, please give it a go.
    i'm sure you're well aware,
    there are many models out there
    with no crew at all.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  11. #61

    Transparent Cabin

    Hello Smilo,
    I see. OK. Then Iīll give it a go!
    It should really work out OK with the single crew member.
    The AT-9 Jeep cockpit had a similar layout, with TWO crew members plus their seat-backs.

    Update:
    Iīve just got the head and torso in, with the cabin aft-wall, floor and dashboard, and Iīve split glazing and framework components into left and right halves each, and it all fits! Iīm now on 148.9%, and thereīs still 10 free parts for glue templates to do the glue sequencing.
    Getting there slowly...

    Update 2:
    OK, it worked. Now Iīm on a cramped 149.6%.
    Ivanīs "Conga" has done it again! It was a bit difficult because the cabin is embedded into the fuselage behind the nose. Hereīs a screenshot.

    Cheers,

    Aleatorylamp.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Transparent.jpg  
    Last edited by aleatorylamp; January 12th, 2018 at 15:30.
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  12. #62

    ... and with 2 pentagon-shaped heads?

    Hello Smilo,
    Both crew members CAN be put in,
    but with simplified structure cross-sections.

    Heads get pentagons instead of octagons, and
    torsos have flat instead of slanted fronts and backs.
    Perhaps the shapes donīt look so good, but I could
    live with it. How about you?

    ... and maybe the crew shouldnīt have goggles?

    We also get Ivanīs "Cockpit Conga" in its full splendour:
    In the sequencing list, cockpit elements and glue templates
    do their full, fascinating, charismatic dance!

    Hello Ivan: I am still in awe about this glue sequencing
    technique that you demonstrated with the At-9 Jeep!

    Parts count is now at 149.6%...
    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flat.jpg   Pentagons.jpg   dash.jpg  
    Last edited by aleatorylamp; January 13th, 2018 at 00:36.
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  13. #63
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    goggles?
    we don't need no stinking goggles.
    ...do we?

    of course a person wants more detail.
    anyone who spends too much time
    looking at the crew will be disappointed.
    but, considering the options
    of non transparent windows,
    or even, no crew at all,
    i certainly can and will live with it.
    well done, Stephan

    although, i am a little upset
    there are no paratroopers
    looking out the side windows.
    ...just kidding.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  14. #64
    Hello Smilo,
    I suppose only the gunners would be needing goggles out in freezing open,
    so Iīll exchange the bitmap and use the one Ivan supplied some time ago.
    While
    Iīm at it, Iīll fix up the dashboard bitmap a bit too - some of the
    instruments are cut off by the slanted cabin sides.


    I just finished a preliminary SCASM correction of the Virtual Cockpit, to check
    how it works. T
    hanks to the simplified structures that had to be used, perhaps
    the co-pilot looks a bit scrawny, so I may add a proper torso and head to the
    end
    of the SCASM listing to correct that shape. Weīll see how it goes.

    Then Iīll see if I can get him to turn his head with the rudder like I had on the
    Dornier, although that head wasnīt an added one at the end of the listing - it
    was just called again for the VC view.

    For the moment, at any rate, itīs turning out better than before.

    Update: OK, I got a better shaped co-pilot into the Virtual Cabin view, and
    the head turns
    with the rudder!

    It helps a lot - or rather, it was the only way I could do it - to identify and
    get the correct SCASM code for elements to be added,
    by running individual
    elements through SCASM, elements which have previously been compiled
    with
    AF99 and animated with Aircraft Animator.


    SCASM (even at this light level) requires an aging brain to be properly plugged
    into concentration
    mode with logic supercharging to track down all the label
    numbers for all those calls and jumps! Whereīs my meths?!


    Iīm just fixing the textures a bit and then Iīll post another screenshot. ... or
    better, methinks Iīll upload the machine then, because itīll be finished!

    Paratroopers in the side windows!! ...I know you were joking, but I actually
    thought it might not be a bad
    idea - not exactly to have them clearly looking out
    the windows, grinning and waving, but perhaps
    showing them as shadows wouldnīt
    be too distracting.
    It would have to be done rather artistically, otherwise it would
    look quite silly, I suppose.


    Cheers,

    Aleatorylamp
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails VC.jpg  
    Last edited by aleatorylamp; January 13th, 2018 at 12:55.
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  15. #65

    SCASMing the Crew External view too.

    Hello Ivan,
    This would be a technical SCASM-related question,
    about the best way to go about having the cockpit
    crew in both Virtual Cockpit and External View Modes.

    There are insufficient resources for AF99 to make a
    decently shaped crew for the transparent cockpit in
    external view.

    For the moment Iīve resorted to simplified pentagon
    cross-section head structures, which look insect-like,
    and non-slanting, vertical dome shaped torso structures,
    which have too thin a profile. (They would be OK, I
    suppose, but perhaps there is SCASMing option here...).

    With SCASM, I know how to include a decently shaped
    co-pilotīs head and torso structures into the virtual
    cockpit (octagon cross-section head and dome cross-section
    torso slanting fore and aft), including a rudder-triggered
    turning head.

    I know the routine is added to the end of the SCASM listing
    and called by a CALL32 from a Cockpit Section which is
    placed before the marker *** Start of Main Aircraft Code *** .

    So, now I was thinking of using SCASM to substitute the
    simplified crew shapes in the external view with
    decently-shaped crew-member shapes, so here Iīd have some
    questions for you if possible, for the event that you could
    have the time and energy to comment on.

    There could be a second routine at the end of the SCASM
    listing for the pilot (head and torso), and for the external
    view, it would be called together with the already existing
    co-pilot routine.

    Now the question is where to call it from and how to do it.
    Identifying where in the listing the simplified crew shapes
    are done should be no problem.

    Then, I suppose and that just after the labels, a CALL or
    CALL32 would be inserted, to call the new pilot and co-pilot
    head and torso routines. So four calls would do the trick,
    and they would be done in the glue-sequence that is pre-defined
    by AF99 in the same order of the existing SCASM listing.

    But: My question is, what to do after the calls to prevent the
    simplified heads and torsos from being drawn. Do I simply delete
    the lines, or is that too risky and itīs better have a kind of
    "go to line X" instruction?

    Update: Or maybe itīs better to overwrite and substitute the code of the
    simplified heads and torsos with that of the new ones, retaining the original
    labels.

    Thanks in advance for your much appreciated advice, if you were
    to have the time and energy for it!

    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    Last edited by aleatorylamp; Yesterday at 11:06.
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  16. #66
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    whew...and you thought ad2k was too complicated.
    (sorry, i couldn't help myself)
    it will be very cool, if you can figure out a procedure.
    if so, it's something you can use on all your models.

    you might want to hold off on that release for a bit.

    thinking about paratroopers waving and grinning
    made me smile....too funny.
    subtle shadows of their backs is intriguing, though.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  17. #67
    Hello Smilo,
    Hello Ivan, too!

    Ha ha! Well, for the way my brain seems to work, (or not to work - that could be debatable!), AD2K seems more difficult to me, but I suppose it depends on the person!

    Anyway, I couldnīt wait for a reply and decided to jump in at the deep end and start experimenting with this (for me) more complicated idea which was burning in my finger tips!

    It turns out it works! I substituted the SCASM code of the simplified heads and torsos with that of the properly shaped ones. I expect that the technique will work for the other models too!

    The longer code off course caused instances in several places of the listing, of Jump instructions which were out of range and thwarted SCASM compilation, but I remembered what Ivan had said about long Jumps, and just substituted them one after the other for Jump32īs, hoping for the best. I was totally surprised when I saw that it worked!

    The technique is really quite straight forward, but requires concentration and attention with the code, which is all numbers and letters of course... The elements to be substituted were quite easy to identify because of the texture numbers they had, and the new code was easily obtained by just building separate crew members alone and SCASMing those by themselves. So it was all possible!

    All very pleasing.
    Now instead of changing the textures (improved dashboard and no goggles) with AF99 and having to do all the SCASM work again for Ju-52 Transport, Iīll just make new textures bitmaps and put them into the texture folder!

    The idea of subtle shadows of paratroopersī backs behind the windows deserves a try too. I realize they are sitting on benches with their backs to the windows, and maybe one window could have the silouhette of one person, and in another it could be offset, and yet another could have partial silhouettes of two, for example. Weīll see.

    With the other models that have less margin for parts, I can make 2D crew figures to get the AF99 Glue sequence right, so that they show up in the SCASM listing, and then put in the code for the real crew members.

    Anyway, all that Ivan showed me to do is certainly bearing more fruit! Thanks Ivan, again!
    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Crew shapes.jpg   VC new.jpg  
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  18. #68
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    yes, they do look much better.
    somehow, i knew you could do it.
    well done, Stephan.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  19. #69

    Auntie Ju Paratrooper Transport almost finished.

    Hello Smilo,
    Thanks! They do look better now, donīt they?
    The scrawny insectoids looked more like aliens than a crew.
    I suppose preserverance helps there... thanks for your faith!

    Then I discovered a minor glitch in the canopy windows.
    They
    all bled momentarily through the cabin body seen from
    below - difficult to spot because the wing covers most of it.
    Not really serious, but annoying!


    I hadnīt declared the window component as smooth, so the
    transparency was visible from underneath, but I was able to
    correct it just by substituting the cabin window component
    SCASM code with the corrected code of smooth one.

    Easy, and quite amazing! This way I didnīt have to re-do
    the SCASMing on the whole model.

    Never a dull moment - more preserverance.
    Soon Iīll upload the Unarmed Transport Auntie Ju!
    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    Last edited by aleatorylamp; Yesterday at 16:48.
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

  20. #70

    Final Unarmed Transport Version

    Hello Folks, hello Smilo,
    So far, itīs done! I managed to improve the dashboard the textures,
    put a texture on the cabin wall (with SCASM), and also incorporate
    the paratroopersīsilhouettes behind the windows, and my secretary
    is just writing the paperwork for the upload.

    Just in case I may have overlooked any problems, here is the final
    transport model attached to this post - itīs easier to undertake
    corrections before an upload than after. (Iīll have to delete model
    attachments to previous posts for attachment cuota reasons).

    So, any comments will be very much appreciated!

    Here are also a few more pictures!
    Cheers,
    Aleatorylamp
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Transport1.jpg   Transport2.jpg   Transport3.jpg  
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by aleatorylamp; Today at 06:43.
    "Why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?"

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