PBR - Needs to be on our Top Wish list to LM for v5

[Mach3DS]

I really hope LM will incorporate PBR into P3Dv5

This would be a game changer....

I'm just starting to dabble in it - This is from DCS, but the rendering engine is clearly superior. This is what can be done given the new technology available. Amazing! Drop tanks show original "metal" of the paint, and the the rest is from my tinkering around! This isn't a WIP...it's a test...to see how things work.

[falcon409]

. . .and for folks like me who have no idea what PBR is or what it does:

https://iblueyonder.com/hot-new-tech...uff/#more-4043

A nice explanation by Master Scenery Builder Bill Womack.

[roger-wilco-66]

Wow, great stuff, Rick. You almost can feel the polished aluminum!
This is also my hope, DX12 and PBR material. It has been a topic in the P3D feature requests a few times.

It sort of works already if you wash the objects through Quixel or another pbr renderer, but the texture maps have to be re-translated to the old FSX style material.






Cheers,
Mark

[henrystreet]

X-Plane 11 has PBR.

[ThomasDWeiss]

PBR ... I still haven't made up my mind about it , a couple of examples from my work done since it became available

this is how it looks without PBR settings

http://www.lockonfiles.com/files/fil...ada-skin-pack/

this when PBR settings are enabled

http://www.lockonfiles.com/files/fil...nker-641gviap/

[Mach3DS]

So, and I'm no expert, but reading the war thunder SDK, if the textures color RGB number and brightness doesn't fall within the correct range for color and or brightness % for a type of material or material conductivity, then textures will look funky with PBR enabled as the rendering engine derives material settings directly from these values. The metallic and reflectivity properties are set in the separate RGB channels of the specular file. No alpha is used.

So what that means as far as the sabre goes is that I had the actually adjust the Albedo (new name for Diffuse) texture, to color correct it, as it values were incorrect for the type of material (aluminum and paint) I was trying create and have be affected by the specular. It's still not perfect but I'm just doing this as a test bed. Wanted to try something new before I go back to XF-92A work!

[Mach3DS]

BTW Tom Weiss, I consider you one of the top painters out there, who doesn't get the accolades that others do. I've downloaded almost all your work for the products I own. I consider you a very talented artist, as should others.

Those screens look good. The spot looks better than the flanker IMO. I think though that with PBR enabled it's very easy to see the difference between them. That's not to say that even the devs have a grasp on it... When I asked Belsimtek about it, the artist said that they were still learning... Which, might be true or they were just trying to honor their commitment to NDA as well as help a customer.

[roger-wilco-66]

I absolutely agree, these screenshots are breathtaking!


Cheers,
Mark

[ThomasDWeiss]

Thank you guys !!!

[gman5250]

If and when P3D goes PBR, I intend to be on board and up to speed. The Abrams Explorer project has been Quixel PBR from the beginning. For those who have not experienced Photoshop in 3D Physics Based Rendering, it will change the way you look at graphics.

Thanks for starting this thread Rick, and beginning the conversation.

[falcon409]

In reference to whether or not Lockheed Martin will incorporate PBR, anyone who bothered to read what Bill Womack said about that (see the link I posted above) will find the answer.

[roger-wilco-66]

If and when P3D goes PBR, I intend to be on board and up to speed. The Abrams Explorer project has been Quixel PBR from the beginning. For those who have not experienced Photoshop in 3D Physics Based Rendering, it will change the way you look at graphics.

Thanks for starting this thread Rick, and beginning the conversation.
[...]

That's an awesome screenshot, Gordon.
I think there should be a discussion in the dev section about handling PBR based texturing, expecially about methods of transferring the texture maps back into 3dsmax and setting up the FSX materials or plugging in the Quixel PBR export back into FSX / P3D. E.g. baking the AO maps into the diffuse textures in Photoshop. I'm sure there are several ways to do that, but I'm not sure I explored them all. This is frontier business.


Cheers,
Mark

[gman5250]

In reference to whether or not Lockheed Martin will incorporate PBR, anyone who bothered to read what Bill Womack said about that (see the link I posted above) will find the answer.

LM said "akin to PBR". Not sure what that means Ed, probably something under their own label. The big question will be which platform will integrate best with a proprietary LM technology? We see the same with the various paint programs used for FSX and P3D, but PBR rendering will be much more specific and will need dedicated tools.

[roger-wilco-66]

Well, there are some new P3DV4 settings regarding materials. I must admit that I have not tried them until now. The best way to view them is to open ModelconverterX and some object.
You'll see this:

[Montie]

In reference to whether or not Lockheed Martin will incorporate PBR, anyone who bothered to read what Bill Womack said about that (see the link I posted above) will find the answer.

What is the "answer" I am not sure I get it? (sorry)

[paiken]

Here's what I thought PBR meant...first beer I ever had...at age 7 (thanks to my Uncle).

[falcon409]

What is the "answer" I am not sure I get it? (sorry)

Wow. . .Bill Womack states in the Blog I referenced that Lockheed will not use PBR but "something akin" to PBR.

[Montie]

Wow. . .Bill Womack states in the Blog I referenced that Lockheed will not use PBR but "something akin" to PBR.

Yes I read that, but what is this "something akin". Have we seen this in P3D V4 yet?

[Mach3DS]

Yes. It's dynamic lighting. However for LM to say that this outs akin to PBR... That's like saying Cheetos and carrots are akin... they're both orange, and the shape is tubular and that's where the similarities end... kind of a stretch IMHO.

[Montie]

Yes. It's dynamic lighting. However for LM to say that this outs akin to PBR... That's like saying Cheetos and carrots are akin... they're both orange, and the shape is tubular and that's where the similarities end... kind of a stretch IMHO.

Yes why I do not understand the "Akin" statement.

[huub vink]

"Akin" means "of similar character", so not really "the thing", but something similar, which could more or less be anything......

But Bill continues that for developers (the ones with access to the source model) there are already quite powerful tools like " https://www.allegorithmic.com/produc...stance-painter ".

Cheers,
Huub

[gman5250]

What I am most interested in is one thing.

Whether it is Quixel or Substance Painter, I will be happy if LM creates an architecture that will allow the simple application of materials created using PBR based rendering, directly into the modeling process. It would be great to have a straight pipeline from PBR directly to the sim.

At the moment, the process is a bit like alchemy, and quite frankly a PITA.

[Montie]

"Akin" means "of similar character", so not really "the thing", but something similar, which could more or less be anything......

But Bill continues that for developers (the ones with access to the source model) there are already quite powerful tools like " https://www.allegorithmic.com/produc...stance-painter ".

Cheers,
Huub

I would not say there are many similarities between P3D dynamic lightning and PBR. That is why I find "akin" strange in this context.

[Desert Rat]

X-Plane 11 has PBR.

So does FSW apparently.

[Mach3DS]

A little update for PBR interested folks.

Well, I've finally had the chance to look over the paint kit...which I was unaware of previously! Sorry, a total noobie here in DCS realm...My apologies to Reflected for that...but since then I've been messing with the kit to come to some kind of "base metal"...just to come to grips with how the textures all interact...getting there....here's my 5th attempt....lol....getting better...I could go with this for now, until I get a more fluid understanding about how this new PBR system works. I setup the Spec Paint file with Discreet shading per channel so that I can perform non destructive tests....I really need getting used to it, but man, once it's setup, seems like it's a great way to go. I like this work flow, compared to P3D....I do find a few things annoying but on the whole it's not too bad switching back and forth.