Northrop F-15A / RF-61C Reporter

[Sundog]

I've never noticed to cowlings until now. I thought they were just standard P-61 units, but they're not. It looks like Northrop took some from a B-26 and flipped them over! (I also never noticed the big scoop underneath either. I guess I was just focused on how different the crew pod was!) I wish I could get a hold of Lone Star Model's conversion kit for a Monogram P-61!

That's because the Reporter was based off of the P-61C, not the A or B model.

[Lonewolfee1]

Really looking nice!!!

[warchild]

That's because the Reporter was based off of the P-61C, not the A or B model.

The prototype P-61E was built from a P-61A (i believe it is) which used the original 2000 HP engines and had the smooth cowling. The P-61B's also had the smooth cowling, but the engines were 2500 HP and as the plane was originally designed as a fighter, i get confused as to why they would use 2000 HP engines instead of the 2500 HP engines. However, the Army's discontinuation of the fighter program is what lead to the development of the RF-61 ( F-15 ) and it became a moot point as they simply switched to using surplus P-61C fuselages and engines to develop those..

[stansdds]

Based on the information I have, the P-61A and B were very similar and both used the same B-series Pratt & Whitney R-2800 engines producing 2000 horsepower. The P-61B featured a new radar system, necessitating an 8 inch longer nose, various internal systems improvements, a change in the design of the nose wheel door and the addition of a nose wheel mounted taxi light. Aside from the taxi light, nose wheel door, and longer nose, the P-61A and B looked identical.

The P61C development was authorized near the end of 1943 and was to improve the speed and altitude performance. The P-61C was designed to use the newer C-series R-2800-77 turbo supercharged engines that produced 2800 HP. However, the USAAF had ordered so many of these high horsepower C-series engines that production could not meet demands and this delayed the development of the P-61C. The first production P-61C would not come the assembly line until July of 1945. The engine cowling of the P-61C featured carburetor air intakes on both sides, beginning at the very front of the cowl ring, and a large intake at the bottom of the engine nacelle for the turbo supercharger.

The P-61E project was started in the middle of 1944 and was also to develop the P-61 as a long range day fighter/escort aircraft for the Pacific theater. The removal of the 20mm cannons from the belly, the dorsal turret system, and replacement of the radar equipment with four 50 caliber machine guns greatly reduced the weight of the P-61 and improved its speed, but it was still slower than the newly developed P-82 Twin Mustang. Remember the C-series engine shortage? That is why the P-61E used the same 2000 horsepower R-2800-65 B-series engines as the earlier P-61A/B.

The first XF-15 was built from the XP-61E, so it retained the R-2800-65 engines, but the second XF-15 was built from a P-61C. All 36 of the production F-15A's used the 2800 horsepower R-2800-77 like the P-61C.

I hope that clears up some of the engine confusion.

[DC1973]

Thanks for the details Pam and stansdds! The Reporter did indeed use the P-61C engines in service. Much work done over the holiday period, just a couple of quick snaps of the Reporter after several updates. More to come over the next couple of weeks as I close in on completing the external model and starting on the Virtual Cockpit. Lots of small details filled in such as intake vent grill textures, wheel cover straps, cleaning up polys etc. No bumps on at the moment as I want to make them more subtle before adjusting the final reflection and other material settings. Onward and upward

[warchild]

Based on the information I have, the P-61A and B were very similar and both used the same B-series Pratt & Whitney R-2800 engines producing 2000 horsepower. The P-61B featured a new radar system, necessitating an 8 inch longer nose, various internal systems improvements, a change in the design of the nose wheel door and the addition of a nose wheel mounted taxi light. Aside from the taxi light, nose wheel door, and longer nose, the P-61A and B looked identical.

The P61C development was authorized near the end of 1943 and was to improve the speed and altitude performance. The P-61C was designed to use the newer C-series R-2800-77 turbo supercharged engines that produced 2800 HP. However, the USAAF had ordered so many of these high horsepower C-series engines that production could not meet demands and this delayed the development of the P-61C. The first production P-61C would not come the assembly line until July of 1945. The engine cowling of the P-61C featured carburetor air intakes on both sides, beginning at the very front of the cowl ring, and a large intake at the bottom of the engine nacelle for the turbo supercharger.

The P-61E project was started in the middle of 1944 and was also to develop the P-61 as a long range day fighter/escort aircraft for the Pacific theater. The removal of the 20mm cannons from the belly, the dorsal turret system, and replacement of the radar equipment with four 50 caliber machine guns greatly reduced the weight of the P-61 and improved its speed, but it was still slower than the newly developed P-82 Twin Mustang. Remember the C-series engine shortage? That is why the P-61E used the same 2000 horsepower R-2800-65 B-series engines as the earlier P-61A/B.

The first XF-15 was built from the XP-61E, so it retained the R-2800-65 engines, but the second XF-15 was built from a P-61C. All 36 of the production F-15A's used the 2800 horsepower R-2800-77 like the P-61C.

I hope that clears up some of the engine confusion.

No, I'm sorry, but that information is in part incorrect.. Forgive me but my books are all out in the conex at this time, so please bear with me as i past the data from the widows web..
http://www.maam.org/p61/p61spec.html

SPECIFICATIONS
for B-model, unless otherwise noted

PRIMARY FUNCTION:	Night Fighter
CONTRACTOR:	Northrop Aircraft Inc. of Hawthorne, California
UNIT COST:	$170,000
CREW:	Pilot, Radar Operator, and Gunner
FIRST FLIGHT:	May 21, 1942 (XP-61)
SERVICE DELIVERY:	May 1944 (P-61A)
FIRST OP MISSION:	July 3, 1944 (Europe)
FIRST KILL:	July 6, 1944 (Pacific)
TOTAL PRODUCED:	706 (all variants)
ENGINES:	Two Pratt & Whitney R-2800-65 Double Wasp 18-Cylinder engines rated at 2,250 hp
WING SPAN:	66 Feet
LENGTH:	49 Feet, 7 Inches
HEIGHT:	14 Feet, 8 Inches
MAX. SPEED:	369 MPH
HEIGHT:	14 Feet, 8 Inches
EMPTY WEIGHT:	20,965 lb
MAX. T.O. WEIGHT	34,200 lb
SERVICE CEILING:	33,100 Feet
MAX. RANGE:	1,350 Miles, (1,900 miles ferry)
RATE OF CLIMB:	2,090 Feet Per Minute
ARMAMENT:	Four 20 mm Hispano M2 cannons, four Browning M2 .50 caliber heavy machine guns, 6,400 lb of bombs or rockets

[stansdds]

The R-2800-65 was capable of a maximum power output of 2,250 HP, but that was with the water/methanol injection system. The maximum power without the water/methanol injection was 2000 horsepower.

The R-2800-77 was capable of a maximum power output of 2,800 HP with water/methanol injection, but limited to 2400 HP without water injection.

Guess I should have been more precise with the output ratings in my first post. My engine data is from FAA documents.

[warchild]

The R-2800-65 was capable of a maximum power output of 2,250 HP, but that was with the water/methanol injection system. The maximum power without the water/methanol injection was 2000 horsepower.

The R-2800-77 was capable of a maximum power output of 2,800 HP with water/methanol injection, but limited to 2400 HP without water injection.

Guess I should have been more precise with the output ratings in my first post. My engine data is from FAA documents.

Pffft.. No.. Your fine.. You guys know me. I'm your friendly neighborhood PITA perfectionist. But your correct as well, although the original R-2800 edouble wasp had a maximum output of 2000 HP.. I forget the name of the gentleman who created the R-2800, but he knew he could get more power out of it, and started working on several follow up versions, including the R-2800-65W. Welll, At the time, P&W encouraged competition among the development teams and the guys across the hall saw what was being done with the R-2800 and well, they got a lil jealous. Ergo, the race was on. Those guys were working on the R-4360 series Or corn cob as we have come to know it.. Every time the R-4360 guys would eek out a bit more power from the corn cob, the R-2800 guys would up the ante by improving the output of the 2800.. It got to the point that once the R-4360 team developed reached their maximum possible output level, the R-2800 guys did them one better and created an engine with over 2850 HP. Of course, they were using so much manifold pressure to accomplish that that it even frightened the engineers. But they won the bet, and we got the most powerful light radial engine ever created.
Some other information to tickle the brain. Before the release of the double wasp, P&W partnered with some companies to form the United Aircraft Corporation. Those companies were: Boeing, Vought, Hamilton Standard, and Standard Steel Propeller; which was connected with Northrop.. It doesnt take much imagination to connect the dots

[DC1973]

And lo, there were rivets everywhere!!

Probably a little on the large side, but manipulating the bump alphas is toning down the reflective textures nicely. Haven't tinkered much with the specular or fresnel yet but I suspect that each will bring something more to the appearance. The real RF-61C was often a bit rough looking in most pictures I've been able to find, not highly polished, so will probably tone certain panels down further as I work my way through, great fun though!

[DC1973]

I've been hard at work on the RF-61C and am now nearing completion of the external model. The wings are bearing the final metallic finish, just enough shine but not too over the top, and the textures will now be weathered and refined before being duplicated for the rest of the airplane. A custom FDE and wonderful sound package are in place courtesy of geniuses far more capable than me. A few more weeks' work and I'll be moving onto the Virtual Cockpit as the final task.

[Sundog]

Thanks for the update and the preview. It's looking great so far.

[DC1973]

Flight testing for the RF-61C is now underway!!

Much modelling work done over the past week or so. Spoilers added, textures refined, more animations and other enhancements including the use of fresnel on canopy and metal. This shot was taken in the downwind, cowl flaps deployed, one quarter flap and gear down at 130 KIAS. Really starting to look like a proper aeroplane now. I have about a weeks' worth of tidying up before I can start finalising textures / bump and specular maps. Then I can call the exterior complete and move on to the virtual cockpit. On schedule so far!

[Josh Patterson]

Flight testing for the RF-61C is now underway!!

Much modelling work done over the past week or so. Spoilers added, textures refined, more animations and other enhancements including the use of fresnel on canopy and metal. This shot was taken in the downwind, cowl flaps deployed, one quarter flap and gear down at 130 KIAS. Really starting to look like a proper aeroplane now. I have about a weeks' worth of tidying up before I can start finalising textures / bump and specular maps. Then I can call the exterior complete and move on to the virtual cockpit. On schedule so far!

Awesome! I really like the "We Three" markings at the beginning of this thread. Did they serve both painted an naked? The look of the photo on downwind looks like a proper warbird. Pristine and pampered! I do wish MAAM would fly their P-61 at least once before they paint it just to show off all the work that went on under the paint. Looking forward to this.

[DC1973]

They served in several schemes, I'll be creating two or three ( We Three, Over Exposed and one other - yet to be decided which one ) but will leave further schemes to the community. The model will come with a layered paint kit included and a true bare metal aircraft for that purpose.

[warchild]

Josh?? Did MAAM complete their P-61?? There is precedent for a bare metal P-61.. General Barnes used it as a personal plane..

[jmfabio]

Josh?? Did MAAM complete their P-61?? There is precedent for a bare metal P-61.. General Barnes used it as a personal plane..

Warchild, after reading this thread and seeing your question I checked the MAAM website and as of 12/20/17 they foresee several years work remaining. They have sent out one engine to be overhauled and said that when funds become available they will send out the other.

But work still progresses.

I will see this bird come June at their WWII Weekend, as our group re-enacts at the event.

I can't wait to see it fly.

Joe

[roger-wilco-66]

If they can get it done for Oshkosh 2019, I'll be there!!

:-)


Cheers,
Mark

[Josh Patterson]

If they can get it done for Oshkosh 2019, I'll be there!!

:-)


Cheers,
Mark

Doubt if it will be that soon. They still have quite a way to go. Both outer wing panels need to be finished. Spoilers, ailerons and flaps need to be done. After that it's the many little things that need to be tidied up at the end which seems to take the longest! Steady progress, but slow. (Mostly funding, but they're also not rushing.) It will fly when it's ready and I'm okay with that! Also looking forward to the P AND XP-82s that are nearing completion! Another one I'm really waiting on is the Lightning T.5 in Mississippi. The FAA paperwork was done for the trip last November and I though it was going up but once again the little things (and one major one) got in the way. A fuel leak necessitating the removal of the #1 engine (which added the updated fuel line connection at the same time) and replacement of the air turbine gearbox with a freshly refurbished unit while the engine was out. Also a microswitch in the left airbrake needed replacing and a faulty flap indicator sourced and replaced.

Any trip you make to Oshkosh get in touch. It would be fun to meet another SOH member in person! (There IS a Meteor coming this year along with Berlin Airlift's C-97 both of which I've never seen in the air and in the case of the Meteor have never seen one in person at all.)

[warchild]

Warchild, after reading this thread and seeing your question I checked the MAAM website and as of 12/20/17 they foresee several years work remaining. They have sent out one engine to be overhauled and said that when funds become available they will send out the other.

But work still progresses.

I will see this bird come June at their WWII Weekend, as our group re-enacts at the event.

I can't wait to see it fly.

Joe

Thanks JMFabio.. too be honest, i was afraid of that. They've been facing a challenge getting finances for it for a long time.

[Josh Patterson]

Thanks JMFabio.. too be honest, i was afraid of that. They've been facing a challenge getting finances for it for a long time.

One has to remember the condition of the plane when they started also. They had a very long road to get from that to where they are now. (And I think it's 100% volunteer driven so kudos for all who gave up their time and helped with it!) It will be nice to see it in the air when it does happen though!

[roger-wilco-66]

[...]

Any trip you make to Oshkosh get in touch. It would be fun to meet another SOH member in person! (There IS a Meteor coming this year along with Berlin Airlift's C-97 both of which I've never seen in the air and in the case of the Meteor have never seen one in person at all.)

I've been there in 2016, meeting Tom Stovall again and Rami, which was great. I'll never forget these mornings in the Warbird Alley.
And I managed to get a ride in the B-17 Aluminum Overcast. I'd love to attend every year, but that would be quite expensive, coming where I'm from. I probably live in the wrong country regarding all my interests.


Cheers,
Mark

[warchild]

One has to remember the condition of the plane when they started also. They had a very long road to get from that to where they are now. (And I think it's 100% volunteer driven so kudos for all who gave up their time and helped with it!) It will be nice to see it in the air when it does happen though!

I know.. I've been following them fervently since they started the project.. Just always had hopes i'd be able to see it at least once..

[DC1973]

External model pretty much complete now, crew added and final tidying up done around fuel tanks and undercarriage. Will start on textures now, as well as bump detail, weathering and specular while having a break from the modelling side of things. Just the VC and visibility XML to go after that

[Bjoern]

I'm discussing the subject of flight crew apparel with Dean on FSDev and need a bit of input from the warbird nerds.
In short: I think an officer's cap is a bit out of place in a flighter-like aircraft, especially if the type is used post-war. An early helmet for the aircraft commander would be more useful.
Were there any guidelines regarding flight crew clothing post-war?

[warchild]

I'm discussing the subject of flight crew apparel with Dean on FSDev and need a bit of input from the warbird nerds.
In short: I think an officer's cap is a bit out of place in a flighter-like aircraft, especially if the type is used post-war. An early helmet for the aircraft commander would be more useful.
Were there any guidelines regarding flight crew clothing post-war?

Excellent point Bjoern.. It illustrates magnificently, the exact gestalt of this aircraft. It was a plane out of time. Designed to fight the part of WWII that never happened by Johnny Meyers, The RF-61 was modified from the four cannon nose to the version we are so familiar with now for post war aerial mapping and reconnaissance. BUT! The Lockheeed shooting star was right there along side of it. It didnt matter if the RF-61 was one of the best aircraft designed for WWII. WWII was over and the age of the propeller driven fighters was all but over.. It was born and old man in a young world. I'm not sure if at first jet pilots wore helmets. Those may not have been introduced till 1949 or 1950 or so. This plane was made for the air force, but pretty much spent its entire life ( after mapping Korea ) in service to NACA and NOAA. It didnt fit anywhere else. It was too expensive to maintain as a fighter, and too expensive for anything that wasnt top priority ( chasing tornado's wasnt seen as anything productive and misunderstood even by the people at NOAA ). Along side its big brother; the P-61, the RF-61 was relegated to the NACA and NASA for testing new technologies..
Zoom in. The crews wore baseball hats..


We decided to give the pilot the iconic 50 mission crush hat. This was not based on anything historical, but rather an insight gleened from the above given reality of the era in which these planes operated. There were a lot of ex WWII bomber pilots now in the civilian sector. Some started their own businesses ( i.e. Tales of the gold monkey style ), and many went back to woprk, for the airforce, nasa, and other agencies. The 50 mission hat was ubiquitous, along with the iconic type 4 flight jacket. These 'civilian" pilots werent issued airforce gear. They werent combatants. They didnt need a helmet. They were just joe's trying to make a living while still holding on to what self respect and dignity they had.. The were yesterday's news, and tomorrows myth. Yeah, you can be pretty sure that some of these pilots wopre the 50 mission crush hat. Its what they were comfortable with, and no one ws going to question them for it out of respect for what they had done just a couple years before.. But for the most part, the wore baseball caps..