Brazilian aircraft carrier São Paulo (A12)

[CIMOGT]

This model is based on the freeware FOCH, i only add the hangar bay, elevator and air wing, this model are modified before i wrote the control deck gauge

[CIMOGT]

[CIMOGT]

[CIMOGT]

** Link removed by Huub Vink ***

[jungle_balloo]

Once again, thank you very much CIMOGT.

Olivier

[speedy70]

Yes thank you very much,your work is really appreciated.

Cheers Chris

[JensOle]

Looking great! Having a realistic air group adds a lot to the realism!

What is the status about the São Paulo and Braziliean naval aviations? I seem to remember that the ship had been taken out of service with no replacement.

[CIMOGT]

The A-12 was taken out of service this year

[fallenphoenix1986]

From what I gather the Carrier is gone for good but the airgroup are remaining in service. On the one hand it makes sense keeping them as they have just undergone a massive series upgrades, on the other its kind of pointless since there isn't any real prospect of the MdB acquiring a new carrier any time soon if ever.

The only outside chance I can see is perhaps buying a new build from India or China however there wont be surplus capacity for foreign orders any time soon as both nations are building up their own carrier fleets. Even at that the Kuznetsov based Chinese ships are quite large for Brazil's needs, the Indian ships remain to be seen. I believe there was talk of an indigenous Brazilian CV a few years back though financially I just can't see it happening.

[CIMOGT]

thanks all for the comments, encourage to continue

[TARPSBird]

CIMOGT, by all means keep on doing what you're doing. You have a lot of great projects in work.

[sparouty]

*** Link removed by Huub Vink ***

Hi CIMOGT,
The carrier you're using is the one I did with the RFN team, which is free to use but not to be modified, repacked or distributed. Your read-me is not even mentionning the RFN origin of the model!!
You never contact me and I really do not appreciate the way you hijacked my work!!
Weeks ago I already noticed on SOH that you re-used some 3D objects extract from RFN or SDB models that I did, like flight deck crewmen or trucks, but with the whole carrier model I can not keep silent!

I know that, using some freeware tools, it is easy to get out a 3D mesh from FSX/P3D mdl and then modify it as it is yours: so far there is no way to protect model from such hacking except trusting FS users and their respect!

Do you know why there are so few carrier or freeware aitcraft developpers in FS? Because it takes so long time to reach user expectations that many project stops before being finished.
I took me 3 versions and many years of works to do the Foch model you hacked in days without any consideration for the guys who worked on it: that get me upset!!

Sylvain
(by the way you took the Foch of the year 70s which is not the right version for Sao Paulo)

[jungle_balloo]

Hé, au moins ca c'est dit...

Hey, at least it says...

Olivier

[CIMOGT]

Hi CIMOGT,
The carrier you're using is the one I did with the RFN team, which is free to use but not to be modified, repacked or distributed. Your read-me is not even mentionning the RFN origin of the model!!
You never contact me and I really do not appreciate the way you hijacked my work!!
Weeks ago I already noticed on SOH that you re-used some 3D objects extract from RFN or SDB models that I did, like flight deck crewmen or trucks, but with the whole carrier model I can not keep silent!

I know that, using some freeware tools, it is easy to get out a 3D mesh from FSX/P3D mdl and then modify it as it is yours: so far there is no way to protect model from such hacking except trusting FS users and their respect!

Do you know why there are so few carrier or freeware aitcraft developpers in FS? Because it takes so long time to reach user expectations that many project stops before being finished.
I took me 3 versions and many years of works to do the Foch model you hacked in days without any consideration for the guys who worked on it: that get me upset!!

Sylvain
(by the way you took the Foch of the year 70s which is not the right version for Sao Paulo)

I did not say that I am the author, just add hangar and the air wing, that is written, try to contact the mail that appears, but never answered, besides I am not taking any advantage of what is posted here in any way, I only invest time nothing more.
and in terms of developing perfectly how much it costs, you are upset I'm sorry.

[expat]

Bon jour mon ami Sylvain,

I usually steer very clear of these kinds of situations on the forum. And for good reason.

However, I believe our fellow member CIMOGT has been acting in good faith. With the Oriskany I believe he sought and then easily obtained the permission of Gary, the original author. It appears he did try to get permission for the RFN Foch but was not able to connect for some reason.

Sylvain, you are completely right that it is wrong to not get permission or to give credit to the original authors of freeware. EULA's and legalities aside, it is just not good etiquette and manners among gentlemen here in our common hobby.

It would be sad though if CIMOGT was discouraged by all of this from continuing his work in our shared enjoyment in developing carriers for the sim. I hope apologies can be made but also that we can then move on with the kind permission of the RFN on developments to the Foch - preferably with the latest version!

Sylvain: by the way you would be tres populaire if you could mod your RFN TACAN gauge for 64 bit in P3D v4 - we naval aviator types can't find our carriers without it! It leaves a big hole at the moment.

Best regards, expat.

[gp183601]

Bon jour mon ami Sylvain,
....The Oriskany I believe he sought and then easily obtained the permission of Gary, the original author.

Hi Expat - No he didn't....and initially I was a bit miffed about that. However I let it slide as Oriskany was originally a sketchup model modified for the benefit of another user on this forum and so under the terms of the EULA for sketchup he did not do anything wrong...and to be fair, he did improve the model.

What did concern me was he was reverse engineering my model along with multiple other models from other developers and merging them with some animation. A clever approach I may say and if I took that approach of ripping and amalgamating every modellers upload I too could also churn out a model a week without having to learn the finer nuances of model developing in Blender (along with months of late nights, sweat and frustration). However were these modellers also consulted on this approach?...I doubt it.

I am currently working on a series of Royal Navy ships and have cleared any component usage with the original dev and it will only get uploaded on his say so (or passed to him for inclusion in his package)

As a dev It then makes you think - do the other developers think I've given permission for the merge? will there be any backlash on me for their model in my 'part'...it's certainly made me question whether I will upload any of my work again.

And as sylvian says no credit was given in the amended readme to any of the original developers or source (the Nick black/mike person A-4 which now graces the decks of Oriskany has a clear readme which states no upload to another site without express permission).

As you said expat a simple note to all the developers and perhaps a group of us could have come together to support and produce something excellent without getting anyone's back up.

The Oliver Perry class which is being previewed in this forum is clearly the default Perry from X-Plane 10 which has been reverse engineered and I don't know how Laminar research would feel about FSX benefitting from it nor Khamsim (the original developer) who has a clear usage policy on this product.

And to be clear - Ark Royal V uploaded to this site was built in conjunction with DaveB and so no permission will be given for that to be modded without first seeking approval.

Just my tuppence worth

Gaz

[huub vink]

As CIMOGT obviously did not had permission from the guys from "Royale French Navy", I have removed the link to the modified carrier.

I expect CIMOGT was indeed acting in good faith and hopefully he can sort things out with the original developers. However currently it is a modified model, without permission of the original developer, which is why I removed the link.

Huub

[mpni]

As CIMOGT obviously did not had permission from the guys from "Royale French Navy", I have removed the link to the modified carrier.

I expect CIMOGT was indeed acting in good faith and hopefully he can sort things out with the original developers. However currently it is a modified model, without permission of the original developer, which is why I removed the link.

Huub

Hi Huub
This is the good way. I am the RFN Webmaster and the copyright of the Foch is
* PA Foch & Clemenceau, moving carrier for FSX Acceleration *
* release 3.21 *
* 06/04/2013

LEGAL DISCLAIMER

This software is hereby declared FREEWARE.
All the original material is copyrighted and may not be used without permission.
Repacking or modifying this package and its contents is not allowed without permission.
Distribution of this file on the internet or other media is not allowed without permission, but aske me, I will certainly accept provided it is done for free and without modifying the original file.
Every kind of distribution that implies exchange of money is not allowed without permission.

Thank you very much
Michel

[CIMOGT]

As CIMOGT obviously did not had permission from the guys from "Royale French Navy", I have removed the link to the modified carrier.

I expect CIMOGT was indeed acting in good faith and hopefully he can sort things out with the original developers. However currently it is a modified model, without permission of the original developer, which is why I removed the link.

Huub

hello, always tried to find and contact the authors is the case of the nimitz and other models such as the F-101 or the udaloy, for example of which I obtained authorization to modify them, no problem I will not upload more files

[gp183601]

Now then fella,

Don't take it the wrong way.....it's not what you are doing it's how you are going about it. You've greatly enhanced some fairly bland models and I've certainly got no issues with you modifying Oriskany and Midway (I saw some of your previews of midway on your Facebook page)....you've greatly improved something that at the time I didn't have the skillset to do. It's when you start merging objects from other developers and don't clear it with them that it starts to get a bit messy as different devs have different copyrights/restrictions and some of the original devs then get the heat for that.

keep up the good work.....just clear it with the people who developed the models you are merging. if you don't get a response to e-mails then post a message on here....you will probably get a reply or a pointer in the right direction. Alternatively start developing your own models....you've clearly got a bit of a knack for using GMAX or 3DS max (whatever you are using)

The Oliver Perry is a case in point...taking a model from the x-plane 10 default product and re-engineering it for yourself is one thing.....if you upload it for others as an FSX 'free use' could land you in hot water.

Best
Gaz

[kl791]

As I haved work professionaly with copyrights for many years, let's be clear. "Not being able to contact" does not mean that one has green light to modify and/or share models. It simple means you can't touch it if the copyright statement does not allow it. There are plenty of models out there, which I would have loved to include in my project, but where there is no way to get hold of the original copyright owner, so no chance... And in this specific case it, as mentioned above it, wouldn't have been difficult to locate Sylvain.
I have close to a thousand models out there... personally normally I do grant permission and have done so even for use in payware, but copyright is there for a reason.

[fsafranek]

As I haved work professionaly with copyrights for many years, let's be clear. "Not being able to contact" does not mean that one has green light to modify and/or share models. It simple means you can't touch it if the copyright statement does not allow it. There are plenty of models out there, which I would have loved to include in my project, but where there is no way to get hold of the original copyright owner, so no chance... And in this specific case it, as mentioned above it, wouldn't have been difficult to locate Sylvain.
I have close to a thousand models out there... personally normally I do grant permission and have done so even for use in payware, but copyright is there for a reason.

Thank you. Bears reposting. Silence is never approval. No matter how hungry folks are for their weekly fix of new stuff.

[JosefK]

Hi CIMOGT,
The carrier you're using is the one I did with the RFN team, which is free to use but not to be modified, repacked or distributed. Your read-me is not even mentionning the RFN origin of the model!!
You never contact me and I really do not appreciate the way you hijacked my work!!
Weeks ago I already noticed on SOH that you re-used some 3D objects extract from RFN or SDB models that I did, like flight deck crewmen or trucks, but with the whole carrier model I can not keep silent!

I know that, using some freeware tools, it is easy to get out a 3D mesh from FSX/P3D mdl and then modify it as it is yours: so far there is no way to protect model from such hacking except trusting FS users and their respect!

Do you know why there are so few carrier or freeware aitcraft developpers in FS? Because it takes so long time to reach user expectations that many project stops before being finished.
I took me 3 versions and many years of works to do the Foch model you hacked in days without any consideration for the guys who worked on it: that get me upset!!

Sylvain
(by the way you took the Foch of the year 70s which is not the right version for Sao Paulo)

1) Just so you know sparouty I really appreciate all you guys at RFN do for naval flight simulation. Especially the carrier-finder gauge.

2) I'm working with somebody (I signed a NDA) and although this somebody & I appreciate CIMOGT's work very much - especially on the Growler - we have to make clear with our upcoming product we don't mind mods, but a) let us look at it first and b) we'll decide if, when, where & how any volunteer mod proposed will be released.