Convair Delta Wing Test

[Moses03]

Rgr that Milton. Interesting ship for sure.

[Mach3DS]

There's was a version where the elevons were short and we're like a Mirage elevon not extending to include wingtip. However we went with three later model and engine, which used full elevon to the wing tip. This allowed for the tip to extend into the slip stream below the wing kind of like a counter balance. However, the 3 view you are showing above is for a model (RC likely?) And not the actual aircraft. We elected the full elevon because it was used most in phase 2 and 3. Along with wing fences. We have those as optionally selected from a VC switch. We also have an intake test article that installs with the wing fences.

[Milton Shupe]

We have modeled the version with the afterburner installed. AFAIK, all afterburner models had the full width elevon.

[Mach3DS]

Yes, to my knowledge that is correct Milton.

[Mach3DS]

Something I'm curious about that you probably know already is the elevons length. Is it a set length or does it extend to the tip of the wing? There are 3-views that support both but in this youtube video you can see it does not extend to the end of the wing. The bare metal version looks this way but maybe it was modified on the later painted white version?

Note 5:10 into this clip:



3-view showing "short" elevons.

The problem with this aircraft is:

It lacks a definitive source of chronological events. Sundog sent me a great article about this program but given it's details the photo record contains anomalies. For instance..."phase I" should have been bare metal with a J33A23 engine. But there's photos showing the no wing fence bare metal J33-A-29 afterburning engine with full wing tip elevon. Even though the record states that "phase II" is when the new engine and paint job should have been!

So I will paint the original Phase I, Phase II bare metal, Phase II White, and Phase III NACA white.

[magoo]

Jeepers, Milton.

I think you may have come down with a bug.

After years of consistent radial engine designs, we're witnessing two similar curios in close succession.

Mid engine pushers with unorthodox air-frame design, both from the Consolidated-Vultee frame of mind.....

Now, I suspect that the cure for this disorder may be something like putting the lime in the coconut and drink it all down.....but in this regard I believe you may have found a healthier solution, turning the affliction into the cure.

One can't help but notice all the folks who're clamoring to catch what you've got......

Next thing you'll be telling us that the sound barrier can be broken, and pilots will have rocket powered seats to escape aircraft in distress....!?! (I know, I know....it will never end...... )

[Milton Shupe]

Jeepers, Milton.

I think you may have come down with a bug.

After years of consistent radial engine designs, we're witnessing two similar curios in close succession.

Mid engine pushers with unorthodox air-frame design, both from the Consolidated-Vultee frame of mind.....

Now, I suspect that the cure for this disorder may be something like putting the lime in the coconut and drink it all down.....but in this regard I believe you may have found a healthier solution, turning the affliction into the cure.

One can't help but notice all the folks who're clamoring to catch what you've got......

Next thing you'll be telling us that the sound barrier can be broken, and pilots will have rocket powered seats to escape aircraft in distress....!?! (I know, I know....it will never end...... )

I knew you would show up with an observation so well stated. Fact is, I am having withdrawal symptoms as we speak, and have delved into a S2A Tracker conversion to sooth the pain. Ugghhh!

[magoo]

Ahhh....the fever is breaking. I had a hunch you'd come out of it stronger!!

[tankerguy72]

Fact is, I am having withdrawal symptoms as we speak, and have delved into a S2A Tracker conversion to sooth the pain. Ugghhh!

Well that is some great news there!

[falcon409]

I'm sure this has crossed the mind of the experts here, but my guess is that while there were official "Phase I, Phase II and Phase III" testing that was documented, I have to wonder if, in between all that, there wasn't a fair amount of . . ."Hey, let's stick this on there and see what we get" testing as well. It's possible that some photos were taken during those impromptu "Phases". . .attributed to whatever Phase they happened to be in at the time, but not officially documented as such.

[Mach3DS]

I'm sure this has crossed the mind of the experts here, but my guess is that while there were official "Phase I, Phase II and Phase III" testing that was documented, I have to wonder if, in between all that, there wasn't a fair amount of . . ."Hey, let's stick this on there and see what we get" testing as well. It's possible that some photos were taken during those impromptu "Phases". . .attributed to whatever Phase they happened to be in at the time, but not officially documented as such.

Precisely! Which is why I think there are photos that I can't resolve within the official "Phases". Hit the nail on the head!

[Milton Shupe]

Well that is some great news there!

TG, weren't you working on some native FSX Tracker tanker conversions. Don't want to step on any toes here.

I have the S2A well underway here for 76 and the green livery.

[tankerguy72]

Yes, but have ran into trouble switching to windows 10 then trying to get projects transferred from GMAX to 3DS

[Milton Shupe]

Yes, but have ran into trouble switching to windows 10 then trying to get projects transferred from GMAX to 3DS

Ah, a good reason to have a Windows 7 development box or dual boot.

Which model are you doing, and do you intend to complete it?

I am doing the S2A-CDF and will do the S2T's if you are not.

[tankerguy72]

Ill send you a PM... Dont want to hijack this thread

[Mach3DS]

A little more progress. Still no bumps specs and just a place holder alpha... But closer to the deal lighting.

[mig21bis]

Beautiful body work, Rick - in that upper picture, looks like wing leading edge does not quite join with the fuselage? Or is that a dynamic shadow error induced by the sim itself?

[Mach3DS]

Shadow error....I noticed it too.... Nothing we can do about that. Thanks T!

[Milton Shupe]

Beautiful body work, Rick - in that upper picture, looks like wing leading edge does not quite join with the fuselage? Or is that a dynamic shadow error induced by the sim itself?

I also get the same shadow error in FSXA. The parts (rudder actuator housing, and the camera housing on the other side) actually extend into the vtail so it is not a join issue. There may be a way to modify the parts to "change" the shadow drawing. I would have to experiment with that.

[Bjoern]

You'll have to make the geometry "watertight" (one single part or - worse - creating a fully featured fuselage-wing intersection with welded vertices between them) in order to draw (more or less) correct shadows.

[Javis]

A little more progress. Still no bumps specs and just a place holder alpha... But closer to the deal lighting.

That looks drop dead gorgeous, Rick, apart from the vstab you could sell that as a photo of the real thing !

[Duckie]

Rick, the metal "staining" visible in the first screen shot is outstanding. Great job.

[Mach3DS]

Thanks Javis and Duckie!

Here's some behind the scenes of typical back and forth between Milton and I while Milton was head down in modeling for those interested. I would send stuff like this to him and he would send back to me with responses and or further clarification needed. Or on many occasions, he would clarify me on an issue!

[Mach3DS]

I should also mention that working with Milton during this whole process has been nothing but fun! Of course I would say that! He's done almost all the work! LOL...but in all honesty, it's been great to work with such a legend in the community. Thanks Milton!

[Milton Shupe]

One of the great things of retirement is I get to work on these projects all day long. And when I need to communicate to ask a question or get input, its great when the other party is also available for near-immediate responses.

Wellis being retired is a good match up for my work as he is also retired.

Rick, although younger and working, has been awesome with timely responses and finding resources. So, that limited downtown to almost nothing.

When a team clicks like that, things go quickly and progress is great.

I started the modeling and mapping on October 16th, 2017 and completed it mostly last week.
In that time, I was also able to put together a reasonable flight model for testing, merge in a VC and make it "jet-able", swap gauges (thank you Jan), borrow some jet sounds, do some custom xml, and generally wrap up my part of this.

The fact that the design is simple (no round engines, cowl flaps, flaps, props, etc) went a long way to shorten the modeling and mapping hours.

Thanks Rick :-)