FS 2004
Mick,Originally Posted by Mick
In the panel.cfg, window00 section, try changing this parameter to your size:
size_mm=1920,1080
change to size_mm=1280,1024
Mick,
In the panel.cfg, window00 section, try changing this parameter to your size:
size_mm=1920,1080
change to size_mm=1280,1024
Thanks for the tip, Milton! I wondered why the 2D looked a little offset!
Charlie Awaiting the new Microsoft Flight Sim and will eventually buy a new computer. Running a Chromebook for now!
Thanks for the tip, Milton! I wondered why the 2D looked a little offset!
Well, don't know if that fixes the issue but its worth a try.
Well worth the try! Just a slight adjustment! I did the change to the pixel size.
[Window00]
file=Panel2D.bmp
size_mm=1920,1080
window_size_ratio=1.000,1.000
position=0
visible=1
sizeable=1
ident=60
pixel_size=1360,768 <---------------(My screen resolution)
Last edited by MrZippy; November 7th, 2017 at 07:18.
Charlie Awaiting the new Microsoft Flight Sim and will eventually buy a new computer. Running a Chromebook for now!
No joy.
MrZrippy, thanks for posting! That tells me that the problem isn't unique to me. I was worried that I'd somehow messed things up!
Milton, I tried your suggestion and the image shows what I got. It looks like it might be the upper corner of the clipboard against a blank black background instead of a view of the world through the windscreen..
I always thought that adjusting the Default View (down at the bottom of the panel.cfg file) would alter the aspect ratio of the panel in the sim. In fact, I've edit that section on a few other planes where the panel showed up oddly, and it worked. But with the A-20, nothing I do in that section makes any difference at all. None!
It occurs to me that the problem is that the panel background image is wider that usual, and therefore not what FS9 expects, so it just displays the part that corresponds to an image with the expected aspect ratio. That makes me suspect that it's a wide-screen-only panel, but even that doesn't really ring true. A regular panel on a wide screen monitor shows the entire panel, it just stretches it a bit i the left-right dimension to fill the screen. It would seem, then (though I'm guessing here) that a wide screen panel on a regular monitor should also show the whole panel, simply compressing it a bit left-right to fit it on the screen. But obviously that's not happening here.
One could easily squeeze the panel background to give it the regular aspect ratio, but that wouldn't affect the instruments, they'd stay where they are. Visually, it would put the eyepoint in the middle of the windscreen and panel, but the instruments would no longer match up with their proper locations on the panel.
I could use Michael's excellent panel, but it doesn't match up with the VC, and I like it when the 2D and VC panels look the same.
This really has me confused!
Did you try Mr. Zippys solution?No joy.
MrZrippy, thanks for posting! That tells me that the problem isn't unique to me. I was worried that I'd somehow messed things up!
Milton, I tried your suggestion and the image shows what I got. It looks like it might be the upper corner of the clipboard against a blank black background instead of a view of the world through the windscreen..
I always thought that adjusting the Default View (down at the bottom of the panel.cfg file) would alter the aspect ratio of the panel in the sim. In fact, I've edit that section on a few other planes where the panel showed up oddly, and it worked. But with the A-20, nothing I do in that section makes any difference at all. None!
It occurs to me that the problem is that the panel background image is wider that usual, and therefore not what FS9 expects, so it just displays the part that corresponds to an image with the expected aspect ratio. That makes me suspect that it's a wide-screen-only panel, but even that doesn't really ring true. A regular panel on a wide screen monitor shows the entire panel, it just stretches it a bit i the left-right dimension to fill the screen. It would seem, then (though I'm guessing here) that a wide screen panel on a regular monitor should also show the whole panel, simply compressing it a bit left-right to fit it on the screen. But obviously that's not happening here.
One could easily squeeze the panel background to give it the regular aspect ratio, but that wouldn't affect the instruments, they'd stay where they are. Visually, it would put the eyepoint in the middle of the windscreen and panel, but the instruments would no longer match up with their proper locations on the panel.
I could use Michael's excellent panel, but it doesn't match up with the VC, and I like it when the 2D and VC panels look the same.
This really has me confused!
[Window00]
file=Panel2D.bmp
size_mm=1920,1080
//window_size_ratio=1.000,1.000 //remove this as the pixel_size overrides it
position=0
visible=1
sizeable=1
ident=60
pixel_size=1280,1024
BTW, the Size x and y at the bottom only affects the view window of the outside, not the panel display.
Somehow I missed that until your reminder, despite having seen and read his post. I just tried it and it works, but as we might expect when a wide-angle panel is compressed to fit a regular screen, all the instruments are compressed out of round, squeezed in the left-right dimension.
I should've figured that out myself, since I used the same method to make the clipboard bigger to suit my old, tired eyes.
It should be possible to edit the panel.cfg file to make them round again, hopefully without messing up their locations. But the instruments are painted on the panel background, so the painted ones will probably peek out the top and bottom of each functioning instrument. That would ruin the panel. But rather than abandon hope on a presumption, I will try it with one gauge and see what can be done. If necessary, maybe I can paint out those painted-on instruments and make a bare panel background. If it works, I'll do the whole panel. But I won't get to do it this morning; I have too much else to do and can't stay at my desk for a while.
I will post the results of my experimentation.
If it doesn't work, or turns out to be too tedious, I can always fall back on Papi's panel. It doesn't match the VC but otherwise it's excellent. (And I will use his included weapons effects whether or not I use the panel.)
Thanks for the clarification on the coordinated in the bottom section. It prompted the recollection that I've used it when the view through the windscreen doesn't quite fill the available space, not to affect the panel itself.
OK, project started. It's tedious enough that I was tempted to abandon the job and use Papi's panel. Trouble is, Papi's panel is drawn as if the pilot was sitting so far back from the panel that for my old eyes, the instruments were impossible to read, even with my reading glasses on.
So back to work. I have one row of instruments done and they look pretty good. Alas, many of the gauges lose their bezels, which are drawn onto the panel background. I don't think I'll notice that in the heat of combat, but I may try to restore them. I can think of a way, but if it works it could be the most tedious bit of all and may not be worth the time and effort. As they are, they look more natural to me than the elongated shape they take when the panel is simply squeezed. Still, I can get compulsive about this stuff sometimes, so who knows how far this will go.
Well, that's enough of a break. Back to the drawing board. Or to the dashboard, I should say.
OK, finished! It went a lot faster than I expected. My idea of how to restore missing instrument bezels turned out to be impossible. So up the pipe it goes. It's not perfect, but at least the instruments are round. All I did was edit the panel.cfg file to change the shape of the instruments and paint over the instrument bezels on the background image. Just those two files are in the upload.
It's interesting to note that nobody mentioned the aspect ratio of the panel until today, and only one other came forward when I posted about the matter. Some people have been flying the plane for months, and many for weeks now. Did nobody else notice the issue? Or didn't they mind it? Or have 6x8 monitors become exceedingly rare now? It will be interesting to see how many folks download this.
That looks good Mick. Happy that you got something that satisfies the mind.
It was easier than I expected. All I had to do was change the proportions of the gauges. I thought doing that would require some resizing or at least slight movement on the panel, but no, none of that at all.That looks good Mick. Happy that you got something that satisfies the mind.
I made the rudder and elevator trim wheels a little bigger, just from personal preference, but mainly it was just a matter of rounding out the gauges.
I'm very curious to see if anyone else needs this. So far, nobody, but it's early yet. I wonder, though, if MrZippy and I are the only ones left with standard aspect ratio monitors. Maybe we're about to find out!
Noticed this prob as soon as I loaded up the official release of the Havoc. As I had just bought and set up a new monitor I thought it was a result of the change. As the 2D panel acts like a window on my monitor, I merely stretched it by the bottom right corner to fit my screen. Remarkably, the instruments maintained the correct circularity in the new 'stretched' panel. This is the first time I have experienced a 2D panel acting like this. Very commendable to produce a scale changing panel to match any configuration or size.
The above performance is obviously at odds with what others are experiencing, but from my point of view (no pun intended), apart from having to expand the 2D panel the first time I open it, all is excellent.
On the heels of Milton's trials bringing this a/c to our screens, I was hardly going to mention this slight niggle. After all - who really knows how one's work appears on the host of monitors and standards now running good old FS9?
As it appears as an unintended effect to others, I thought best to mention my experiences with it. My current resolution on my AGON monitor is 2560x1440 (native).
Lovely a/c as normal Milt! Many thanks.
Mal
Mick,
The photo I used is from a site where you can zoom the panel from near to far.
I zoomed it that the point of view was just a little bit bhind of the center of the seat.
There where from my own flying experiance the pilot eyes should be.
When I downloaded the aircraft with the original panel and than used used the vc I had the same impression as if in a car the seat is completly advanced and my teeth will hit the steering wheel.
In the rare cases I use VC's when flying I have to scroll back the view point.
My steam powered pc and monitor lives with a resolution of 1440 X 900.
With that I try that I can read the gauges, even that I'm now 61 and my eyes are realy no longer the best..
Ok that is my personal impression.
Also I have learned not so much looking at the values of a gauge when flying but watching where the needle of a gauge should be depending the flying conditions.
I must say that old Luftwaffe and Marineflieger Had a completely other method of flying.
That remebers me Erich Hartmann when later after war he had to learn to fly on us jets on US methods.
He pested "do you really believe that in a war case we have time to read this damned checklists?"
He never used them as recommanded and was still a good pilot in modern jets.
Allright, as I did say in an other thread for me the chapter is ended. I did not hit what the people wanted or waited for.
So sei es Gott
Ich stehe hier und kann nicht anders (Martin Luther)
Yours
Papi
Papi, I wrote a note to you in the other thread so I won't repeat it here. You youngsters have far better screen vision than I do. (Only 61 - how I wish I could still feel [and see!] like I did when I was only 61!) Like you, I pay more attention to the needles than the actual numbers. But when I tried your panel, the instruments were so small that I couldn't even see the needles, and I couldn't tell which instruments were which.
In the olden days, and perhaps still now (I haven't been around real airplanes since the early 1980s) instruments were often mounted on panels at such an angle that the needle pointed straight up when in the middle of the normal range, no matter what angle that put the numbers at. I don't think it's possible to do that in FS; the gauge would have to be designed that way from the start.
Your comments about Bubi Hartmann's remarks reminds me, I once read that the pilots US Air Force Thunderbirds (or was it the Navy's Blue Angels, or both) didn't use checklists, or preflight their planes. They left it to the ground crews to do the preflight and check everything on all the lists, and have the planes set up all ready for the pilots to just get in, start the engines and fly. I don't know if that was true, or if it is still true, but it sounds plausible. It would seem that in service, especially when a unit is on alert for quick response, they must do it that way. Otherwise a "quick reaction" couldn't be very quick, it would seem.
Mal, is your panel 6x8 or wide angle?
It sounds like it must be wide angle, or the gauges would distort. Since they don't, your screen must have the same aspect ratio that the panel was made for, wide screen.
I have an idea, and if I'm right, the situation is due to you having such a high screen resolution, and the fix should be simple in concept, even if somewhat tedious in execution.
In the [Window 00} section there is this line: size_mm=1920,1080
Fiddling with those numbers might get the panel to fill your screen. Since the size seems to be expressed in millimeters (not pixels, anyway) and screen resolution is expressed in pixels, it's not just a matter of substituting one figure for another, but some experimentation should get you to where you want to be. Just have your calculator at hand so you can make the changes to both figures proportional. I edited that line in my personal A-20 panel to make the checklist bigger so I could read it easily, so it should work the same way with the main panel.
Before you get to work you might do a quick experiment to see if the same small panel effect happens with other aircraft. If so, my hypothesis must be right. If not, then I'm wrong.
Mick,
I took the easy solution and amended the panel.cfg as shown by mrzippy in their last posts. Just hashed out the 'window_size_ratio=' line and inserted my current pixel size as a new last line ie 'pixel_size=2560x1440'. All AOK now and all gauges round.
To answer your question, no I did not have a repeat of the original effect ie start state was a half-size panel which could be expanded to full size with no distortion of the gauges from their original round shapes.
Rgds
Mal
Hallo Mick,
hmm hmm hmm
I understand 100 percent your point of view
now the big question for me : how to get the real feeling to be in the cockpit and not in front of a panel?
The reason also why I prefer to use photos is to reproduce the feeling to be INTO the cockpit with alle the problems of deepness and with that little gauges.
Surely the size of the monitor plays a role mine is a 22' screen running in 1440 X 900 resolution
So it would be interesting for me to know also from the other friends what will be the average monitors and in what resolution do they run.
I will have the same problem on my next cockpit for the OV10 Bronco.
To have the roomy felling the pilot had on the real plane and also with that all the gauges and switches "by the hand" with avoiding these damned pop ups. Or loosing the felling to get better readable gauges
Hmmm I have an idea: what about the main gauges beeing as a transparent overhead line which could be switched on or off, and off course in a good readable size?
Yours
Papi
Hallo Papi,
I can see why you can read the instruments on your monitor while I can't on mine! Size matters!
I have a 17" screen at 1280x1024, so there's a big difference. I would guess that in the present time, there are more monitors like yours than there are like mine. I bought mine seven or eight years ago and even then I had to really search for a 17" 6x8 screen; already they were almost all larger as well as being mostly wide screen.
As for feeling like being inside the plane, that's what the VC is for. I use it most of the time, and just go to the 2D panel to see the instruments directly without having to alter my eye line in the VC. Of course, not all planes have a good VC, but the ones I fly usually do. If a model lacks a VC, or has one that isn't very good, I spend more time in the 2D panel view. If a plane I like doesn't have a VC at all, I will often make the external model visible in VC view and adjust the eyepoint to make a non-dynamic "pseudo" VC. (Thanks to Norm for teaching me how to do that!)
I must confess - I often fly with that line of flight information at the top of the screen. I know it's "cheating" but I do very little flying, and due to my lack of practice, I need all the help I can get!
Hallo Mick,
your problem is now a challenge forme
I said that the chapter will be closed for me - but at this week end I will have a look if I find a pratical solution for you and others who has the same problem. I' m not sure about if I find it.
I will see if my Idea with an overhead gauges line will be a pratical solution
So without changing the panel the primary and engine instruments informations will be visible on an overhead line, but could be switched away if you want
Yours
Papi
Hallo Papi,
We already have that in FS9. Just key "Shift+Z" and there is is, easily toggled on or off.
Done this many times myself mate! Grab bits from several paints. modify and tweak the colours... when one wants something different.. and has NO paintkit... one 'adapts'!
I've developed an entire 'style' of repainting from a base all over 'something' (I prefer a light gray scheme) and then copying and pasting layers of this base after tinting and playing with the other tools in photoshop to get the desired colour and intensity. SOMETIMES, it actually looks better than one done with a paintkit.
And like you, I feel it is only right to get the original artists permission before making my new paint available to all.. and of course.. give credit!
Cheers
Hallo,
as we do not have a "K" model for FS9 I tokk the "G" for this repaint.
What do you thinks about?
Yours
Papi
Is there any chance of that happening, Milton? Hope this isn't an off-base question.
Charlie Awaiting the new Microsoft Flight Sim and will eventually buy a new computer. Running a Chromebook for now!
Yes, Ill look at it.
EDIT: The original model is already set up to handle reflective textures in FS9. The xxx_T.bmp suffix to all body parts is evidence of that.
I did have to add specular to each of them however.
Attached is the new model and cfg entry.
Now, all you need are paints. :-)
Last edited by Milton Shupe; November 15th, 2017 at 11:22.
I think it looks nice Papi
H.
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