EKA-3 "Whale"

[HorusJ]

I checked out in the KA-3B and RA-3B as a test pilot at Pax River in the 70's. I was pretty senior and experienced, and really learned to like the plane in general, but could well understand the problems it could have aboard ship - ESPECIALLY the small converted ESSEX Class that still populated the fleet up into the mid 70s. I also enjoyed flying with the small cadre of enlisted aircrewmen we had to fly in, and help maintain, them at NATC. We had a sort of "Whale Flying Club", and were pretty proud of it.

Although I had flown many types of planes with many different types of engines, I really liked the reliability, response, and yes - the sound - of the J-57 engine.

Mike! How would you rate Alphasim's/Virtavia's A-3 handling compared to the real thing?

Joel

[Cowboy1968]

Ok the EA-3 was a signals intelligence gatherer, ESM (electronic support measures )in Navy terms. It had the ability to conduct defensive ECM. They were usually to fleet reconnaissance squadrons which were designated VQ. The USN had four of these squadrons VQ-1 to VQ- 4. They usually were stationed ashore and sent out to the carriers if their mission capabilities were needed.

Then you had the EKA-3, that was a duel role machine. These planes were usually assigned to VAQ squadrons aboard the carriers. They performed tanking duty, but they also were the ECM force for a strike package. They provided defensive and offensive ECM. Defensive they identified enemy radar and missiles launch areas, and then they conducted offensive ECM by jamming them. This role would later be taken on by the EA-6B Provider. It should be pointed out that the first designation for these squadrons were VAW as detachments. Once these detachments were re-classed as VAQ, VAW squadrons redirected to a total AEW role.

When the A-3B first entered the fleet they were deployed as VAH, heavy attack squadrons, but once the heavy attack role was removed from the carriers the VAH squadrons shifted the role to tanking with KA-3B and provided detachments to carriers in the late 60's.

The RA-3B, was the photo recon bird and it was attached to VAP, heavy photographic squadrons and were used to watch the trails in Vietnam with inferred cameras and low light video equipment, once they found a target they would call in strikes.

The TA-3 was used in the Fleet Readiness Squadrons to train the flight crews for the Whales.

[Cowboy1968]

Now over in the USAF, the B-66 was what it was a medium bomber...considered the replacement for the B-45.

the EB-66 was the Air Force's offensive ECM bird for the Vietnam War. It wouldn't be replaced until the IOC of the General Dynamics/Grumman EF-111A Raven in 1983.

The RB-66 was used photo work in the same manner as the RA-3B.

[Mick]

Now over in the USAF, the B-66 was what it was a medium bomber...considered the replacement for the B-45...

In John Fredriksen's book The B-45 Tornado he claims that B-45 crews were not pleased to convert to the B-66 because they thought the B-45 did both the bombing and recce jobs better, despite the B-66 being newer and faster. He also says that the Air Force refused to spend the money to install the tail guns in the RB-45s because the B-66 was in the pipeline and the B-45 was scheduled for replacement, even though the RB-45 was flying combat in Korea and dodging MiGs.

[casey jones]

In 1958 I was 14 years old, I was attending Junior High in Crescent city Florida, I was going out the
door after school when I looked up and saw PV2 Neptunes circleing near by helecopters were also
in number I walked down a dirt road near the school and came upon the fuselage of a Douglas
A3D sitting upright, I picked up a small piece of tubing that read "Douglas airplane company,
then I walked further until I reached an open field there was the nose and cockpit of the A3D
laying on its side with a parachute streaming out the cockpit it had blood on it. the pilot was
still in his seat the other two crewmen had baled out. The plane was from Sanford NAS.

I was watching a program on youtube where a EA3 attempted to land at night on a carrier,
at the controls was a very young Marine 2d Lt who was bringing back a crew of ECM Operators
after a night mission in the Med. I saw the tape of the landing as he aimed for the deck and
the plane seemed to squash onto the deck going though the barriers into the ocean. According
to the story the Navy did not attempt a recovery of the plane which shows it still floating and
helicopers over it. For some reason the incident was not made public for a number of years.
But also the pilot asked the CAG if they could bail out, he was told no.

Thank You

Casey

[Mike71]

Ok the EA-3 was a signals intelligence gatherer, ESM (electronic support measures )in Navy terms. It had the ability to conduct defensive ECM. They were usually to fleet reconnaissance squadrons which were designated VQ. The USN had four of these squadrons VQ-1 to VQ- 4. They usually were stationed ashore and sent out to the carriers if their mission capabilities were needed.

Then you had the EKA-3, that was a duel role machine. These planes were usually assigned to VAQ squadrons aboard the carriers. They performed tanking duty, but they also were the ECM force for a strike package. They provided defensive and offensive ECM. Defensive they identified enemy radar and missiles launch areas, and then they conducted offensive ECM by jamming them. This role would later be taken on by the EA-6B Provider. It should be pointed out that the first designation for these squadrons were VAW as detachments. Once these detachments were re-classed as VAQ, VAW squadrons redirected to a total AEW role.

When the A-3B first entered the fleet they were deployed as VAH, heavy attack squadrons, but once the heavy attack role was removed from the carriers the VAH squadrons shifted the role to tanking with KA-3B and provided detachments to carriers in the late 60's.

The RA-3B, was the photo recon bird and it was attached to VAP, heavy photographic squadrons and were used to watch the trails in Vietnam with inferred cameras and low light video equipment, once they found a target they would call in strikes.

The TA-3 was used in the Fleet Readiness Squadrons to train the flight crews for the Whales.

At least 1 TA-3B was kept at Andrews AFB for the CNO for a period of time.

[Mike71]

In 1958 I was 14 years old, I was attending Junior High in Crescent city Florida, I was going out the
door after school when I looked up and saw PV2 Neptunes circleing near by helecopters were also
in number I walked down a dirt road near the school and came upon the fuselage of a Douglas
A3D sitting upright, I picked up a small piece of tubing that read "Douglas airplane company,
then I walked further until I reached an open field there was the nose and cockpit of the A3D
laying on its side with a parachute streaming out the cockpit it had blood on it. the pilot was
still in his seat the other two crewmen had baled out. The plane was from Sanford NAS.

I was watching a program on youtube where a EA3 attempted to land at night on a carrier,
at the controls was a very young Marine 2d Lt who was bringing back a crew of ECM Operators
after a night mission in the Med. I saw the tape of the landing as he aimed for the deck and
the plane seemed to squash onto the deck going though the barriers into the ocean. According
to the story the Navy did not attempt a recovery of the plane which shows it still floating and
helicopers over it. For some reason the incident was not made public for a number of years.
But also the pilot asked the CAG if they could bail out, he was told no.

Thank You

Casey

Whatever program you were watching, it is mostly crap or your memory is a little fuzzy.

I believe you are referring to two separate incidents at different times, but both aboard USS NIMITZ (CVN-68).

The first incident, a Marine EA-6B did take the top of the barricade rather than rolling into it, despite LSO attempts to keep him from going high in close. Obviously, snagging the top of the barricade is not the idea - the barricade actually is attached to a 5th cross deck pendant (CDP) and the lens is set so the pilot will touch down, roll into the net and pick up the CDP (if the hook is useable). That plane cartwheeled up onto the bow, causing a serious fire, at night. The 4 man crew was lost along with several men on deck.

The second incident was an EA-3B, running out of fuel at night who essentially did the same thing. The crew did not ask to bail out -and anyway, that is the pilot's decision, period. He/she doesn't need anyone's permission. That plane crashed off the end of the Angle Deck, all crew was lost. You can't recover a crashed plane in most instances; to many factors have to come into play. This accident caused the Navy to cease A-3 ops aboard carriers except in an emergency.

I was Air Boss on NIMITZ in the 80's and am very familiar with these events, although neither occurred "on my watch" so to speak.

[Mike71]

Mike! How would you rate Alphasim's/Virtavia's A-3 handling compared to the real thing?

Joel

I did a lot of tweaking in the aircraft.cfg file to make it more useable to me, but "out of the box" it was OK. However, I can tell you that very few FSX planes fly particularly like the real thing without some work on control sensitivities, trim effectiveness, and pitch stability.

Also, thrust/fuel consumption often has to be worked on to get realistic performance. However, The Alpha/Virtavia seemed in the ball park starting out.

[HorusJ]

I did a lot of tweaking in the aircraft.cfg file to make it more useable to me, but "out of the box" it was OK. However, I can tell you that very few FSX planes fly particularly like the real thing without some work on control sensitivities, trim effectiveness, and pitch stability.

Also, thrust/fuel consumption often has to be worked on to get realistic performance. However, The Alpha/Virtavia seemed in the ball park starting out.

I suspected the fuel consumption is a bit off. Thank you for your insight Mike!

[Flapsfull]

Hi everyone,

out of interest for this peculiar naval aircraft, could someone kindly post a picture of the payware versions panel/VC?
I don't seem to get what changed in comparison to the freeware edition - either the various stores like
pcaviator / simmarket etc. didn't update their galleries or it s very much in the details?

The gauges seem to be the same...
I've contemplated buying it, but had hoped for more improvement in this area as with some of their other products which
received upgraded versions . The repaints however do look very very good.

On another note, thank you Mike71 for your insights into operating this aircraft.
Is there any chance you might upload or share your aircraft.cfg improvements of the Whale?

Kind regards,

Oliver

[TARPSBird]

Flapsfull, Here ya go. This is the Virtavia A-3, VC and 2D panels. Same panels for all models in the package.

[Mike71]

The layout is not bad, especially the general shape of the windows and panel background. The old standard MILSPEC black/grey attitude indicaror - "the Lear Liar" is pretty accurate, also the ID249 CDI/GS indicator. The RMI is OK, but the oft used "Connie RMI" I see in a lot of freeware is the best MILSPEC RMI of the era.

The plane needs an AoA indexer above the left glareshield in the pilot's line of sight, and several gauges need to be moved around. I have not spent much time on this, but it would not take much time if I get a chance.

There were some differences, especially on the right side depending on what version of A-3 you were flying; tankers had a fuel counter transfer console for example), but no big deal.

I big point is that the fuselage-pressurized "version" A-3 series - the EA/RA/TA had a somewhat better cockpit structure; the upper escape hatch was a "plug" type that pulled downward on a hinge. The straight A-3s had an aft- sliding hatch. Window framing was a little heavier in the versions. I thing the Virtavia model picks this up well.

Also, remember that the bottom entry hatch was also a bailout hatch, accessible to anyone in the airplane. The upper hatch was for cockpit egress if ditching or runway departure but still upright, etc. All version A-3s had some type of side fuselage door for the pressurized fuselage crew as necessary. The original basic bomber/tanker was only pressurized in the cockpit.

[johndetrick]

In 1958 I was 14 years old, I was attending Junior High in Crescent city Florida, I was going out the
door after school when I looked up and saw PV2 Neptunes circleing near by helecopters were also
in number I walked down a dirt road near the school and came upon the fuselage of a Douglas
A3D sitting upright, I picked up a small piece of tubing that read "Douglas airplane company,
then I walked further until I reached an open field there was the nose and cockpit of the A3D
laying on its side with a parachute streaming out the cockpit it had blood on it. the pilot was
still in his seat the other two crewmen had baled out. The plane was from Sanford NAS.

I was watching a program on youtube where a EA3 attempted to land at night on a carrier,
at the controls was a very young Marine 2d Lt who was bringing back a crew of ECM Operators
after a night mission in the Med. I saw the tape of the landing as he aimed for the deck and
the plane seemed to squash onto the deck going though the barriers into the ocean. According
to the story the Navy did not attempt a recovery of the plane which shows it still floating and
helicopers over it. For some reason the incident was not made public for a number of years.
But also the pilot asked the CAG if they could bail out, he was told no.

Thank You

Casey

I strongly doubt that Marine was a 2nd Lt. More like a Captain at least.

[Cowboy1968]

When i was talking about the various aircraft models, I forgot to mention the ERA-3B, this "Whale" was a massive improvement over the EKA-3 in the role of offensive ECM. so much to the point it was used as an aggressor aircraft against even enemy ships radars. For radar countermeasures it had no equal until the arrival of the EA-6B Prowler, but even then it still had an ECM suite that was viable well into the 1980's. It performed both defensive and offensive ECM....

Even though its defensive ECM package is immense for the aircraft, this "Whale" was designed to get into airspace that was heavily protected by radar surveillance and to go in and get electronic signal intelligence, photographic recon, and video surveillance of a target area. You can sort of consider an ERA-3, a cross between an EA-3 area surveillance aircraft (signal intelligence) and a RA-3 photo recon bird, with hopefully deep penetration ability using its ECM suite. Unlike, EKA-3, this machine was not meant to conduct offensive ECM in support of a aerial task force. Its jamming equipment was meant to be used against area radar coverage, while the EKA-3 was more or less used to jam enemy air defense radar.

The ERA-3 proved to be an excellent area surveillance aircraft!

All that said, the aircraft converted to the ERA-3 standard spent all their useful life as aggressor aircraft in war at sea exercises simulating Soviet ECM/ESM aircraft...and also emulating Soviet bombers on cruise missile attacks!!!

[Mike71]

When i was talking about the various aircraft models, I forgot to mention the ERA-3B, this "Whale" was a massive improvement over the EKA-3 in the role of offensive ECM. so much to the point it was used as an aggressor aircraft against even enemy ships radars. For radar countermeasures it had no equal until the arrival of the EA-6B Prowler, but even then it still had an ECM suite that was viable well into the 1980's. It performed both defensive and offensive ECM....

Even though its defensive ECM package is immense for the aircraft, this "Whale" was designed to get into airspace that was heavily protected by radar surveillance and to go in and get electronic signal intelligence, photographic recon, and video surveillance of a target area. You can sort of consider an ERA-3, a cross between an EA-3 area surveillance aircraft (signal intelligence) and a RA-3 photo recon bird, with hopefully deep penetration ability using its ECM suite. Unlike, EKA-3, this machine was not meant to conduct offensive ECM in support of a aerial task force. Its jamming equipment was meant to be used against area radar coverage, while the EKA-3 was more or less used to jam enemy air defense radar.

The ERA-3 proved to be an excellent area surveillance aircraft!

All that said, the aircraft converted to the ERA-3 standard spent all their useful life as aggressor aircraft in war at sea exercises simulating Soviet ECM/ESM aircraft...and also emulating Soviet bombers on cruise missile attacks!!!

Well said- these were true hybrids, only a few rebuilt as such. They were too heavy for Carrier ops, and maxed out at 82000 lbs TOW vice the standard 78000 lb max (airfield) TOW of the typical A-3B series. They belonged to the Fleet Electronic Warfare Support Group, "FEWSG", commonly pronounced "few-sig".

[Cowboy1968]

I ounce had a long talk about the A-3 with my granddad, and he told me when he helped test the bird at Pax River, he never dreamed how invaluable the airplane would become to him in his later career as a carrier commander and as a commander of a carrier battle group.

He knew it was a good bomber, but he said he never dreamed of how this thing served the navy the best as a tanker and electronic warfare plane. He did tell me when he first saw her, he thought she was one of the ugliest things he had seen...but she flew like a dream...he was involved with carrier qualifying the Skywarrior during the test program, and he said he wrote a letter to Grandma every time he took the cat shot, and he prayed every time before the trap....

[Bjoern]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp8WDv06b5w


One of my wallpapers is an EKA-3 refueling a KA-6D refueling an F-4B, but I neither managed to find it again on the web nor to get some context for it.

[Mike71]

I strongly doubt that Marine was a 2nd Lt. More like a Captain at least.

Absolutely - at a minimum, a 1st LT, likely a Marine Captain (O-3). In that period, it took a minimum of 18 months to get through the jet training pipeline and get your wings, then another 6 months in the EA-6B "RAG" type training squadron before getting to a fleet squadron. By that time he would have been at least an O-2.

And as I sometimes like to pull the chain of my Marine friends - remember - Marine pilots are officially designated as "Naval Aviators" when they get their wings. They go through the Navy system, get the same exact training as their Navy cohorts. A certain percentage of flight instructors in ther Naval Air Training Command has to be Marine officers. The system has always worked well.

[Flapsfull]

TARPSBird,

thank you very much for the pictures of the panel& VC! Thats very helpful for my decision whether to buy it or not.
Seems there really have been only minor improvements in the panel / cockpit area of the model
compared to the freeware version.

Kind regards and thanks again,


Oliver

[Cowboy1968]

Absolutely - at a minimum, a 1st LT, likely a Marine Captain (O-3). In that period, it took a minimum of 18 months to get through the jet training pipeline and get your wings, then another 6 months in the EA-6B "RAG" type training squadron before getting to a fleet squadron. By that time he would have been at least an O-2.

And as I sometimes like to pull the chain of my Marine friends - remember - Marine pilots are officially designated as "Naval Aviators" when they get their wings. They go through the Navy system, get the same exact training as their Navy cohorts. A certain percentage of flight instructors in ther Naval Air Training Command has to be Marine officers. The system has always worked well.

Yes in this time frame it was 18 months for any of the three pipelines. The program was flown by US Marines, US Navy and US Coast Guard. There were also some trainees from allied nations that went through the program. In the 60's, all the trainees would have been carrier qualified on the T-2C Buckeye.

An Aviation Cadets training would have started at one of 13 civilian ran schools where they would have been tested and then trained to fly and they would gain a GA type certification. This would be flown on the Beechcraft T-34B Mentor

Then from the introductory or elementary flight school, they proceed to Aviation Cadet Officers course which was a 13 week boot camp for wanna be jet jocks (this part of the training is portrayed in the movie An Officer and a Gentleman).

From there the newly commissioned officers, Ensigns and 2nd Lieutenants (0-1), were sent to either NAS Corpus Christie, Texas or to NAS Whiting Field (North), Florida to begin primary Student Flight Officer program. Here during the 60's, the training was flown on North American T-28B/C Trojan piston engine trainers, but in 1973, the Beechcraft T-34C Turbo Mentor was phased in. Also some pilots took the basic course at NAS Memphis.

From primary, those still in the Student Flight Officers course, were shifted to NAS Pensacola for basic and jet conversion training on North American T-2C Buckeye, here is where they really get a taste of naval aviation and carrier operations. By the end of the basic course all the nuggets to be were carrier qualified in fixed wing aircraft and had at least three traps and shots off the USS Lexington or the USS Antietam (if it was the early 60's). Once they finished basic course at NAS Pensacola, then the powers to be would decide what pipeline to drop them in.

If they were selected for carrier jet aviation (fighters or attack) then they stayed at NAS Pensacola for advanced training, and after 18 months they became Naval Aviators with the rank of Lieutenant (Junior Grade) or 1st Lieutenant (O-2). For the greater part of the decade, the advanced training was flown on the Grumman TF-9J Cougar, but 1968, the Douglas TA-4J became the advanced trainer.

Those selected for the rotary wing pipeline were sent back to NAS Whiting Field (South) for the primary helicopter training. Once they graduated that as O-2, they would receive their advanced training at their Fleet Readiness Squadron. Here, until 1969, the pilots were trained on the Bell TH-13M, until the phase in of the Bell TH-57 Sea Ranger.

Those selected for the land based aviation were sent to NAS Corpus Christie for multi engine training. The main birds here were T-39 Sabreliner, TS-2 Trackers and a few others. Again once they graduated as O-2 they were sent to Fleet Readiness Squadrons to complete training....

Regardless of the pipeline, before you reached the Fleet Readiness Squadrons, the "Nugget" had at least 18 months of training, some had more because of recycles due to illness or injury.

Up until the advanced phase of training everyone had to complete the same requirements.

[Josh Patterson]

Just like to add that Virtavia has re-released the B-66 as well. I had it freeware but certain things like the bomb bay doors wouldn't open. (There were three planes in the pack, only one would've had an opening bomb bay, but it still didn't work.) Bought the B-66 when it was for sale at FS Pilotshop. They had upgraded the textures a bit but the VC was still pretty plain jane (as is the Skywarrior's) but they are both still fun to blast around in and at least everything works! I do have a question about the A3D though. When I bring it aboard ship with about 20% fuel it wants to land full flaps at around 100kts. (I have to pop the boards at the cut as well.) To me this just seems too slow for such a big jet. Is it the big wing giving me some ground effect over the deck? What was the trap speed on a Whale?

[Mike71]

Yes in this time frame it was 18 months for any of the three pipelines. The program was flown by US Marines, US Navy and US Coast Guard. There were also some trainees from allied nations that went through the program. In the 60's, all the trainees would have been carrier qualified on the T-2C Buckeye.

An Aviation Cadets training would have started at one of 13 civilian ran schools where they would have been tested and then trained to fly and they would gain a GA type certification. This would be flown on the Beechcraft T-34B Mentor

Then from the introductory or elementary flight school, they proceed to Aviation Cadet Officers course which was a 13 week boot camp for wanna be jet jocks (this part of the training is portrayed in the movie An Officer and a Gentleman).

From there the newly commissioned officers, Ensigns and 2nd Lieutenants (0-1), were sent to either NAS Corpus Christie, Texas or to NAS Whiting Field (North), Florida to begin primary Student Flight Officer program. Here during the 60's, the training was flown on North American T-28B/C Trojan piston engine trainers, but in 1973, the Beechcraft T-34C Turbo Mentor was phased in. Also some pilots took the basic course at NAS Memphis.

From primary, those still in the Student Flight Officers course, were shifted to NAS Pensacola for basic and jet conversion training on North American T-2C Buckeye, here is where they really get a taste of naval aviation and carrier operations. By the end of the basic course all the nuggets to be were carrier qualified in fixed wing aircraft and had at least three traps and shots off the USS Lexington or the USS Antietam (if it was the early 60's). Once they finished basic course at NAS Pensacola, then the powers to be would decide what pipeline to drop them in.

If they were selected for carrier jet aviation (fighters or attack) then they stayed at NAS Pensacola for advanced training, and after 18 months they became Naval Aviators with the rank of Lieutenant (Junior Grade) or 1st Lieutenant (O-2). For the greater part of the decade, the advanced training was flown on the Grumman TF-9J Cougar, but 1968, the Douglas TA-4J became the advanced trainer.

Those selected for the rotary wing pipeline were sent back to NAS Whiting Field (South) for the primary helicopter training. Once they graduated that as O-2, they would receive their advanced training at their Fleet Readiness Squadron. Here, until 1969, the pilots were trained on the Bell TH-13M, until the phase in of the Bell TH-57 Sea Ranger.

Those selected for the land based aviation were sent to NAS Corpus Christie for multi engine training. The main birds here were T-39 Sabreliner, TS-2 Trackers and a few others. Again once they graduated as O-2 they were sent to Fleet Readiness Squadrons to complete training....

Regardless of the pipeline, before you reached the Fleet Readiness Squadrons, the "Nugget" had at least 18 months of training, some had more because of recycles due to illness or injury.

Up until the advanced phase of training everyone had to complete the same requirements.

You are mixing and matching some different programs, though. NAVCAD/ MARCADs started as officer candidates, Academy and NROTC commissioned officers were somewhat different initially, but ground school / flight syllabus were the same in any of three pipelines.

In my day (USNA 1965), I started at Pensacola in the T-34B as an Ensign in June, asked for and got selected for basic jet training, went to NAS Meridian in the T-2A in Ocvtober. Then a short period back to mainside PCOLA in the T-2A for initial day carrier quals in May 1966. All basic jet was this way - Meridian had VT-7 and VT-9, PCOLA mainside had VT-4.

Then we went either to NAS Kingsville or NAS Beeville Texas. Each base had three VT squadrons with TF-9Js and a few AF-9Js. Actually each base had one of the squadrons flying F-11Fs, and a finishing student would spend a little time there for ACM, but that was eventually phased out.

I got my wings in Nov 1966; anyway, lots of moving around, flying some pretty strange stuff by today's standards, hot as hell in the summer, but what a slice of life!

[Cowboy1968]

Mike thanks for the clarification...a lot of my list up there was based on what my granddad told me when he was an instructor. My Granddad though was from the old navy..he started his career in the USN in 1940, after he came over from Germany in 37....

[Mike71]

Just like to add that Virtavia has re-released the B-66 as well. I had it freeware but certain things like the bomb bay doors wouldn't open. (There were three planes in the pack, only one would've had an opening bomb bay, but it still didn't work.) Bought the B-66 when it was for sale at FS Pilotshop. They had upgraded the textures a bit but the VC was still pretty plain jane (as is the Skywarrior's) but they are both still fun to blast around in and at least everything works! I do have a question about the A3D though. When I bring it aboard ship with about 20% fuel it wants to land full flaps at around 100kts. (I have to pop the boards at the cut as well.) To me this just seems too slow for such a big jet. Is it the big wing giving me some ground effect over the deck? What was the trap speed on a Whale?

50, 000 lb max trap weight, Cambered Leading Edge wing/slats ("CLEO" wing), full flaps (36 deg) speedbrakes out, approach power -123 KIAS with an "donut" in the indexer. unfortunately a lot of the stuff in the Alpha/Virtavia aircraft cfg is a mixture of B-66 and A-3 stuff as well as some nonsense.

Full flaps on an A-3 was 36 degrees, no intermediate positions except a STOP feature - 1/2 flaps selected with STOP for SE approaches.

The Virtavia model has the improved CLEO full LE slats, which, like the A-4 were totally aerodynamic - no connection to flap position, only responding to angle of attack. Their simulation is not perfect, but reasonable.

Seems like you are making a gliding approach. speedbrakes in, maybe flaring - DON'T FLARE!! DRAG the airplane on approach - typically only 10% above stall speed in the real world, flying the back side of the power curve with the boards OUT! On speed, the hookpoint should be level or lower than the MLG - you DO NOT take a cut in a jet - you land with approach power at approach rate of descent. At touchdown, you go full power and retract the speedbrakes simultaneously; if you caught a wire, you ain't a-goin' ANYWHERE! Otherwise, your engines spool to full power quickly and the boards are in for a bolter with adequate speed. If you trap, pull throttles to idle and the gear tugs the plane aft to create slack so the hook can be raised (on signal from the director), followed by wingfold and taxi clear of he landing area (both on signal).

I think a long term solution to this decent model is to break it up into several different aircraft - I am starting with the KA-3B. The aircraft.cfg files need to be different. For one thing, fuel capacities are different, as well as tank arrangements. Also, flap position and lift factors need changing to get proper speeds. Also annotations as to max weights for airfield vs carrier ops.

[Mike71]

Mike thanks for the clarification...a lot of my list up there was based on what my granddad told me when he was an instructor. My Granddad though was from the old navy..he started his career in the USN in 1940, after he came over from Germany in 37....

Sounds cool; I loved talking to the old hands that had flown jets in Korea and were squadron CO's when I was a nugget. Always something to learn about the past.