Adding Aircarft/Scenery the "Right Way" Confusing

[expat]

Off to a great start as a PD3 noob with PD3V4. Finished installing Orbx FTX Global/Vector/other stuff and looking better all the time.

I have read variously however two things that make me both confused and concerned:

1) AIRCRAFT: If I try to install an FSX a/c that is "complex" by just running the installer pointed at PD3 (or just pasting the folder if no .exe) I could bork my nice clean install which has already taken precious hours I would hate to undo and repeat. I get that there could be 32 bit module.dll's or xml's, that are incompatible, but the idea that this could corrupt the install is disturbing. Not used to that kind of anxiety with good old FSX. When I then see all this xml editing with numerous steps that could have user errors, AND that I can't just do this simply with notepad, this is a bit daunting. Disappointing that this all has to be done so manually.

2. SCENERY: Again, in some posts I see you can just use the Scenery Library UI - just as in FSX - to add custom freeware or payware scenery but then I also read, no, you need to open the scenery.cfg and then do more xml edits with Notepad ++ and set Layer numbers, etc, etc. Seems a great big PITA. I have made simple edits to xml files with Notepad in FSX, but this seems on a whole other level that fewer people understand.

Is this really true? Is there somewhere that explains this to someone who is not a dev or coder?

[falcon409]

My personal take on all this (I am a minority and a very small one at that I'm sure). . .pure malarky IMHO. I install aircraft using the installer (for payware) and manually (for Freeware). Payware airplanes, for the most part, should be updated for V4 if there are any "dll" files involved at all (you run the risk of having things either not display or not work at all otherwise). Freeware (Native FSX ONLY), airplanes seem to work fine, but any gauges that rely on "gau" or "dll" files to display. . . .forget it.

As for scenery, a similar approach as well. . .if it's payware and relies on "dll" files to control functions of the scenery it will require an update for V4 more than likely. If it's freeware scenery that contains only "bgl" files (that have been compiled with at least the FSX SDK) and texture files (preferably "dds" format) then I haven't found any that don't display just as they should.

All of this without "xml" files and I've seen no problems anywhere.

[expat]

Very helpful, particularly reassuring coming form you Ed, thanks.

[n4gix]

Just for the sake of general information, the reason why L-M have implemented a new method for add-on installation is to allow for more seamless updates to the core sim files without wiping out said add-ons that were installed into the sim's core as has been the norm in the past.

[expat]

Hmm, yes, that is what I don't really understand, but am trying to!

[docjohnson]

Guys, I can understand the confusion, and I'm a developer. First, I don't let an installer put anything in the P3D V4 root/install folder if I can help it (unless the installer forces me to), nor do I use the newer defining addon.xml method which involves a standard "Prepar3D V4 Addons" folder on my C drive (unless the addon developer writes it there during the install), as it is a smaller SSD. That method is documented here:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/5...the-right-way/

I love the assertion "the right way" when there is more than one way to skin this cat. I have played around with the above method and didn't like the results. So I don't put anything on my C drive but the OS and any files that I'm forced to. All sim related stuff is on a separate SSD - D: drive. So I have the V4 install directory which is D:\Prepar3D V4\...I also have a D:\P3D Addons\ where all my addons are, scenery, aircraft, rotorcraft, etc. Both V3 and V4 installs of P3D read the folder using a method that started in V3 I think (not sure). The technique for doing this is well documented here:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/4...folder/?page=2

At some point in the future I may do the addon.xml route but for now, with both sims pointed at a standard install folder for addons via the config files located in %PROGRAMDATA%\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ (or V3). I just have to remember which ones don't fly in V4, and that is documented in a postit on my desktop from testing the contents of my hangar against each new version of the sim. Also, anytime I have to do a full reinstall, I preserve those .cfg files (simobject, effects, gauges, font, scenery, etc.) and "drop them back in" once the core install is complete. I do this after I use an application called windiff to make sure there isn't anything added that needs to be persevered from the install. You can do the same thing just visually scanning the new files or just add your specific content back into the files from your masters. Its ugly but it works for me. If your interested PM me and I can send you my config files as examples.

Hope this is helpful...and doesn't confuse anyone.

[roger-wilco-66]

I also have my addon scenery folder outside the p3d root or user system profile structure - it's even on a designated scenery ssd. P3d alse resides on an own, designated ssd. The only thing that breaks that design somehow is the ORBX / FTX stuff, which seems to be very intrusive to the default p3d installation.

I found the only dangerous thing to do is to call a bad (32bit) dll in the dll.xml on startup. That can force p3d into a ctd on startup. But that's easily remedied by removing or commenting out the specific entries in the file.
I won't mention some of the aircraft or secenery peculiarities now, much has been already written about them.

Cheers,
Mark

[expat]

OK guys thanks for the reply. But more questions!

First, I don't let an installer put anything in the P3D V4 root/install folder if I can help it (unless the installer forces me to),

1. What's so bad about installing things in the root folder? That's what we did with FS9 and FSX.

nor do I use the newer defining addon.xml method which involves a standard "Prepar3D V4 Addons" folder on my C drive (unless the addon developer writes it there during the install), as it is a smaller SSD. That method is documented here:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/5...the-right-way/

2. Came across that earlier and I totally lose it at post #6 Lorby_SI. I am simply not going to have the patience to jump through so many hoops. Any new sim that improves upon FSX should not require all these manual steps and detailed xml file editing (greater chance of user errors with it) every time you want to add something, IMHO.

Also, anytime I have to do a full reinstall, I preserve those .cfg files (simobject, effects, gauges, font, scenery, etc.) and "drop them back in" once the core install is complete. I do this after I use an application called windiff to make sure there isn't anything added that needs to be persevered from the install. You can do the same thing just visually scanning the new files or just add your specific content back into the files from your masters. Its ugly but it works for me. If your interested PM me and I can send you my config files as examples.

Hope this is helpful...and doesn't confuse anyone.

3. I aim to never have to do a full reinstall. Only did that in FSX when I built a new rig (lucky I guess). Not familiar with all these xx.cfg files or where they are. Also what is the reason for not overwriting IF you need to do a fresh reinstall of V4?

[expat]

Hi Mark!

I also have my addon scenery folder outside the p3d root or user system profile structure - it's even on a designated scenery ssd. P3d alse resides on an own, designated ssd. The only thing that breaks that design somehow is the ORBX / FTX stuff, which seems to be very intrusive to the default p3d installation.

I have V4 installed with the same arrangement.

I found the only dangerous thing to do is to call a bad (32bit) dll in the dll.xml on startup. That can force p3d into a ctd on startup. But that's easily remedied by removing or commenting out the specific entries in the file. I won't mention some of the aircraft or secenery peculiarities now, much has been already written about them.

That approach is fine with me and one I am hoping to take, yet there seems to be an argument that installing an FSX addon (with a 32 bit dll or gau file) can someone corrupt your install. That really worries me. But if it only means the gauge or sound doesn't appear, and you can just delete or comment it out, that's a big relief.

Now the question I have been dying to ask YOU: have you tried your truly EXCELLENT and can't live without Solomons scenery in V4??!!

[roger-wilco-66]

I'm afraid I didn't fire up the Sim much in the last 8 weeks due to some private turmoil I had to endure over here.

Last time I checked the Solomons it was on 3.4, and here they worked. I would expect that to be the same in V4 since there is no fancy dll based stuff active. The only thing that caught my eye was missing taxiways on some traditional AFCAD airfields.

I also found that one can dump the mesh I supplied and use the higher resolution freemeshX or another mesh product, works fine!


Cheers,
Mark

[expat]

Hey that is cool news Mark, thanks. I have FTX Global and Vector mesh working well in V4, same as in FSX. No elevation issues with the Solomons scenery happily. I also added some AI (but had to mod/make up AFCADs for parking) and it is truly a blast, particularly raiding the already raided and burning IJN bases around Bougainville in a Corsair, Hellcat or Lightning. Will download and install it and report back.

[Clutch Cargo]

I pulled up the learning center/SDK about the issue and even LM does not have a steadfast way on how it should be done. Just alternative ways. They go deeply into Scenery Library on how to install, uninstall, move, disabling, etc. Then they mention "Editing the Scenery.cfg file for advanced control of the Scenery Library" and I guess into the xml files.

For me, since I am not a big connoisseur of Orbx I don't have an issue when P3D updates appear. But I also keep add-ons out of the root folder by using the simobjects.cfg file to create my own paths. I did have FSDT install LAX via the xml route automatically and discovered one cannot turn off or move the priority of the add-on. That I do not care for,

[falcon409]

Hi Mark!
That approach is fine with me and one I am hoping to take, yet there seems to be an argument that installing an FSX addon (with a 32bit dll or gau file) can somehow corrupt your install. That really worries me. But if it only means the gauge or sound doesn't appear, and you can just delete or comment it out, that's a big relief.

I have not had a problem with aircraft addons corrupting an installation simply because they have the "gau" or "dll" gauges, since they no longer work/display in V4 you can simply delete them or if you have FSPanel Studio, simply swap them out for a gauge that is contained within a "cab" file. There are extremes to this that render an airplane unusable and sadly Tim's FSX T-33 is one. It is almost 100% gau files so by the time you delete all those you have a blank VC, lol. You can replace them of course but Tim built a lot of those and finding exact replacements was difficult, but that's what you'll run into when moving old FSX aircraft over to V4.

[expat]

OK. I from the start have put P3D4 (first time in P3D for me) on a D drive. W7 os is on the C drive. From the start, I have set up Addon Scenery on an E drive, but I just add it using the P3D UI and Scenery Library - just as one did in FSX. Thus far adding a half dozen or so scenery's copied from my FSX folders have worked fine. Still am not clear why people want ALL add ons external to the P3D install drive. Maybe its because P3D has had 1-4 versions and the updates have painfully wiped out addons in the "core" drive?

So, I plan to keep my method of scenery - it also balances usage on my four fairly full drives (2 are SSD) but am also puzzled why some are adverse to adding anything in SimObjects. In my case this is mostly aircraft. What is wrong with just pasting in FSX aircraft to this folder?

Also, in FSX, AI a/c were in a separate folder, whereas now they are mixed in one with flyables. Has anyone found a way to separate the two?

[docjohnson]

In my case it was a question of having two copies of P3D on the same machine (I do development work) and not wanting to install directly into the root folder which is LM's recommendation. Unfortunately some addon developers don't follow this guidance. If you have a little patience you can set things up so that if an P3D upgrade (and there will be more in V4) requires even a core program or a full update/install you don't (for the most part - remember the addon developers having the aircraft installed in the root folder) have to reinstall Scenery, SimObjects, etc., all over again. That is the main reason I keep what I can keep out of the root install directory. And I have a very large hangar and a lot of scenery...so far it even allows me to troubleshoot problem aircraft or AI.

I have the AI aircraft separated out into a separate AIAircraft folder using the simobject config file...the great thing about this method is it pretty much allows you to configure just about everything dealing with path and directories pretty much any way you want.