A-20 Havoc FSX Native

[Milton Shupe]

Hey Wellis, you know I really like that scheme. Thank you Sir.


And for the rest of you FSX native lovers, I have started converting the "G" model to FSX native. It will take a few days and with testing hopefully we can get that to you by the weekend coming.

[BendyFlyer]

LOL Actually, he was talking about FS9 and was hoping to secure the livery for a later release in FSX, as I understand it now.

No need to do that really as it will be included in the FSX release for the "G" model.

Sorry that I confused the question.

I think I confused myself, for the sake of clarity, yes it was the original FS9 that I spied the RAAF livery. I did not pay close attention to the model numbers, C, G etc. In that case I will await the G model, in the meantime off to try out the C model in FSX having spent a lot of time and trouble lately with PNG and Pacific scenery (backdated to a world long gone WWII through to the 1960's).

I have more than a passing interest in this aeroplane and the RAAF, A Flt LT Middelton was awarded Australia's highest military medal the VC for action in PNG in the HAVOC and they sort of slipped out of consciousness with a lot of aviation historians in this country. As for model numbers only to confuse the issue further , well me anyway, the RAAF originally picked up DB-7B's (ex Dutch), this was followed by more DB-7C's MK III (bulit new), these were then replaced by the A-20A's (The livery I think is A28-34-DU-B). the RAAF never wanted them apparently but used them from 1942 to 1944, all the remaining Bostons (Havocs) were then scrapped, reason, they were worn out from several years of non stop combat missions against the Japanese. Although these were replaced by the A-20G these in turn were generally replaced by the Beaufighter and the Vultee Vengeance, in ground strike anti-shipping roles in combat. Gone but not forgotten this is one of two remaining Havoc's, one is in the RAAF Museum at Point Cook in Victoria Australia, the other up at Amberley Air Force Base in Queensland in USAF colours because technically it was a USAF aircraft. Both look great, tremendous restoration job from basically scrap out of PNG.





Oh this is what they had to work with at the beginning (Salvaged from PNG I think):




The other Boston/Havoc in Queensland:

[roger-wilco-66]

Thank you all for making this happen! Excellent work, my hat's off!


Cheers,
Mark

[BendyFlyer]

First up, thank you to all those involved, Milton and all the other contributors. A really nice job. Tried the Boston (sorry!) out in PNG some feedback but first:

The Havoc (Boston) at about F130 flying down the spine of the PNG highlands.



I noted that this is a Beta model with the usual caveats. A little feedback. General handling was as I would expect for an aeroplane of this size and midwing design. Flys nicely and is good fun to operate. Textures etc are excellent good work.

Not sure what is known or not known but I presume some or a lot of switches etc will be added later or perhaps not. Some views would be greatly appreciated to take advantage of the other crew positions.
I could not get the load sheet popup to work at all, it comes up but nothing is clickable or changes on the sheet data if the mouse is pointed at it,

The blowers (superchargers) levers come up as inop but moving if selected is one such bug. Could not operate the cowl flaps using the levers but usual key commands did make them work. Lights appear to work but no night flying done yet. The Hydraulic pressure gauge did not appear to work at all but remained at 0 the whole way, before and after start. No issue with fuel tank selection after model selection to get it started using CTL+E.

Not sure about the power for this one. Firstly my MP did not change from climb power of 42" after take off all the way to 18,000 ft which is not correct unless the superchargers were working automatically (but they are selectable). You will see from the above screenshot the nose up atittude and it seemed that the aircraft needed about 6 degrees of pitch up to remain level which seems high to me but not unusual for some aeroplanes.

Cylinder head temperatures did not do much in the way of reflecting operating conditions (hot PNG) and basically stayed in the normal range despite a lengthy climb to FL's. Climb rate was good but it seemed to hit a service ceiling of about 15,000 ft after which it would not climb at all and would take some coaxing to get up to Fl180 after which no go!. This lack of power was reflected in the IAS which did not get above 150 for me in the cruise at altitude or otherwise and at FL's settled at 120 kts IAS with full power (46"MP) and 2450RPM, leaned. Does appear to have a tendency to wander to the left if not hand flown constantly, it is a gentle yawing condition but found it hard to keep it trimmed and tracking correctly without constant heading changes.

I have to say I really like this one, it is a delight.

[jeansy]

Hey Wellis, you know I really like that scheme. Thank you Sir.


And for the rest of you FSX native lovers, I have started converting the "G" model to FSX native. It will take a few days and with testing hopefully we can get that to you by the weekend coming.

dont bust a nut milton making a G, its a common mistake in ref to the G as the RAAF used, 7Bs, As, Ds and Gs

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a28.htm

[wombat666]

Most of the RAAF Bostons were a motley collection gathered from numerous sources as Matt pointed out in his link.
No.22 Squadron operated under difficulty with an aircraft that was regarded by the Brass as interim pending the arrival of the the terrible Vultee Vengeance, an epic aviation failure if ever there was one.
The only G models to come close to RAAF service were a USAAF pair that force landed on Mornington Island en route to Horn Island in January 1944, so far off course they were lucky to have been sighted by a No.43 Squadron Catalina (A24-56) returning form a raid on Laha.
In February 1944 several 43 Squadron personal attempted to salvage the Havocs, but one was badly damaged and the other immovably stuck in the sand!
Both were 'reduced to spares', ending the only opportunity for the RAAF to operate the G model.
No.22 Squadron ceased operating their Bostons after losing the majority of them to a Japanese attack in late 1944 (IIRC).

[Milton Shupe]

First up, thank you to all those involved, Milton and all the other contributors. A really nice job. Tried the Boston (sorry!) out in PNG some feedback but first:

The Havoc (Boston) at about F130 flying down the spine of the PNG highlands.



I noted that this is a Beta model with the usual caveats. A little feedback. General handling was as I would expect for an aeroplane of this size and midwing design. Flys nicely and is good fun to operate. Textures etc are excellent good work.

Not sure what is known or not known but I presume some or a lot of switches etc will be added later or perhaps not. Some views would be greatly appreciated to take advantage of the other crew positions.
I could not get the load sheet popup to work at all, it comes up but nothing is clickable or changes on the sheet data if the mouse is pointed at it,

The blowers (superchargers) levers come up as inop but moving if selected is one such bug. Could not operate the cowl flaps using the levers but usual key commands did make them work. Lights appear to work but no night flying done yet. The Hydraulic pressure gauge did not appear to work at all but remained at 0 the whole way, before and after start. No issue with fuel tank selection after model selection to get it started using CTL+E.

Not sure about the power for this one. Firstly my MP did not change from climb power of 42" after take off all the way to 18,000 ft which is not correct unless the superchargers were working automatically (but they are selectable). You will see from the above screenshot the nose up atittude and it seemed that the aircraft needed about 6 degrees of pitch up to remain level which seems high to me but not unusual for some aeroplanes.

Cylinder head temperatures did not do much in the way of reflecting operating conditions (hot PNG) and basically stayed in the normal range despite a lengthy climb to FL's. Climb rate was good but it seemed to hit a service ceiling of about 15,000 ft after which it would not climb at all and would take some coaxing to get up to Fl180 after which no go!. This lack of power was reflected in the IAS which did not get above 150 for me in the cruise at altitude or otherwise and at FL's settled at 120 kts IAS with full power (46"MP) and 2450RPM, leaned. Does appear to have a tendency to wander to the left if not hand flown constantly, it is a gentle yawing condition but found it hard to keep it trimmed and tracking correctly without constant heading changes.

I have to say I really like this one, it is a delight.

Good reporting BF; it will have more meaning to me to know what sim you are flying and the version if P3D.

These are not my experiences in FSXA.

In FSX and P3D, everyone please check their gross weight in the sim before flying. There is a bug in the Load Out sheet that leaves the fuel and weight in place for the external tank even when not selected and showing. This will give an overweight of ~7000lbs.

BF, this may have been part of your problem.

[BendyFlyer]

Milton, I am using FSX-A. I will check the loading issue, thanks for the tip.

[Ferry_vO]

It's a beautiful model, but I can not get it started in FsX:Steam!

I load the plane, configure the tanks, open the fuel valves (With or without cross feed, tried both.), start the engine and wait for it to spool up so I can mesh it. The engine rotates a couple of times and then just stops.
Don't know what I'm missing here?

[Milton Shupe]

It's a beautiful model, but I can not get it started in FsX:Steam!

I load the plane, configure the tanks, open the fuel valves (With or without cross feed, tried both.), start the engine and wait for it to spool up so I can mesh it. The engine rotates a couple of times and then just stops.
Don't know what I'm missing here?

As explained above in Post # 34 announcing the "pre-beta" release and in the docs I think, the manual start procedure does not work in FSX/P3D, only FS9. You will need to use auto-start.

[Milton Shupe]

I should have the "G" model FSX native conversion done today and make it available to you by the tomorrow. This one went pretty smoothly.

A few more texture and animation/tooltip tweaks, bumps and spec maps, and she should be ready.

[Roger]

Good news Milton I want to try some of Huub's G model repaints

[Milton Shupe]

Good news Milton I want to try some of Huub's G model repaints

Me too Roger but I have to finish everything up first. :-/

Here are the liveries we will release with the "G" model. LittleJoe and Hilda_Shane, plus some base livery colors.

[Ferry_vO]

As explained above in Post # 34 announcing the "pre-beta" release and in the docs I think, the manual start procedure does not work in FSX/P3D, only FS9. You will need to use auto-start.

Maybe I should have mentioned control+E doesn't work for me either.. Only the left engine starts, smokes a lot, runs for about 5 seconds then shuts down again.

I've tried selecting just the fuel tank, tried cross feed on/off, throttle open/closed, automixture on/off... Nothing works for me.

[Roger]

I had the same problem Ferry. I had to boot up to a default plane (engine started) and then with A-20 selected, turn both fuel tanks on, left main and right main, then Ctrl and E.

[Milton Shupe]

Maybe I should have mentioned control+E doesn't work for me either.. Only the left engine starts, smokes a lot, runs for about 5 seconds then shuts down again.

I've tried selecting just the fuel tank, tried cross feed on/off, throttle open/closed, automixture on/off... Nothing works for me.

Hmmm, will look into that ; my apologies Sir.

EDIT: The only thing I can determine is the obvious lack of Fuel Boost Pumps. I will add them; maybe that will cure the issue.

Also, for those who asked, there is no avionics switch for this aircraft. Electrical controls were in the nacelle tails and generator switches and breakers were in the rear gunners area electrical panel.

[Milton Shupe]

I got my eyes crossed when writing general operational stuff in teh installation and read me docs.

Here's what it should have read:

Takeoff: 50% flaps are required for heavily loaded takeoff. Set elevator trim to 5 degrees up; otherwise no flaps required for normal loads with appropriate take off distance.
Takeoff power: 52"/2600 RPMs
Climbout: 47" Map, 2400 RPMs
Normal Cruise: 34.5" Map, 2100 RPMs (varies with altitude)
Econo-Cruise: 30" Map, 1700 RPMs

[jandjfrench]

Hi,
I'm having no problems using autostart. In the FSX Fuel and Payload Menu I made sure I had fuel; just about full tanks. I wasn't sure how to handle the overweight situation so I edited "External1" to have zero gallons. After verifying the fuel, I gave a single left click on each of the 4 red controls on the fuel panel on the cockpit left wall and initiated autostart. Neither the lettering nor tooltips on the fuel controls was very helpful. The plane seems to lift off at a reasonable distance with minimum flaps and about +2.0 degrees of pitch. I've been testing at KEDW so maybe not a good test. Full crew, no munitions.
Off track but could someone let me know where I can find the Russian texture?
Jim F.

[BendyFlyer]

I got my eyes crossed when writing general operational stuff in teh installation and read me docs.

Here's what it should have read:

Takeoff: 50% flaps are required for heavily loaded takeoff. Set elevator trim to 5 degrees up; otherwise no flaps required for normal loads with appropriate take off distance.
Takeoff power: 52"/2600 RPMs
Climbout: 47" Map, 2400 RPMs
Normal Cruise: 34.5" Map, 2100 RPMs (varies with altitude)
Econo-Cruise: 30" Map, 1700 RPMs

Thats better I would agree with that having found a performance chart. FWIW the reduced setting needed about 12 degrees of pitch to hold level above 5000 ft and climb was impossible.

Anyhow, Milton, the README stated that the LoadOut panel would come up when the aircraft starts up, it does not do this for me but is easily selectable via SHIFT+5. It seems most of it is working but I am confused about the weight issue. At the load up or start weight the aircraft is 4000lbs below its MGW so it should perform well and it does to a point but runs out of puff at its critical altitude about 8000 ft then will climb but only at 42"MP until about 15000 ft then that is it on my machine, that is the performance I would expect of a normally aspirated engine not a two stage supercharged one which would merely require a blower shift at about 12 to 14000 ft to keep the MP and the climb, the Havoc had a very respectable max ceiling of about F250. No change re the cylinder head temps they remain very cool from my perspective even a long hard climb does not shove them below the green minimums, cowls closed or cowls trailing. Is the hydraulic pressure to be modelled or factored in? I also had some issues with the mag switches, they indicate with the mouse but I cannot get them to go in any direction to do a mag check the prop levers work fine.

50% flap is two stages it seems.

No avionics switch, no problems thats what the radio operator is for, as long as they have battery power or generator power.

Yep and be careful with the cowl flap levers, selecting the left one it is easy to get the bomb bay doors open (made that mistake several times).

Still quite useable and fun and the updates when ever will just make it even better. Really enjoying this one as they said a real pilots aeroplane. Yep and it need a dose or right rudder trim on the climb just like a real aeroplane does with non counter-rotating props.

[PhantomTweak]

Just a thought, since I get so few:
If your default flight is a cold-n-dark, before you start, or try to start, do you hit ctrl+shft+F4? A lot of the time the fuel is cut-off/mixture fully lean (shut down), preventing it from starting. It can be very un-obvious, but can give you fits trying to start a plane, especially a different one than the default FSX Trike thingy.

Pat☺

[AussieMan]

Milton, hate to be a nit picker but the blue in the roundels on DU-P appear to be too blue. I use the following set:

ROUNDEL BLUE: Red: 67 Green: 74 Blue: 114 HTML: #434a72

[Milton Shupe]

Just a thought, since I get so few:
If your default flight is a cold-n-dark, before you start, or try to start, do you hit ctrl+shft+F4? A lot of the time the fuel is cut-off/mixture fully lean (shut down), preventing it from starting. It can be very un-obvious, but can give you fits trying to start a plane, especially a different one than the default FSX Trike thingy.

Pat☺

The proper procedure is:

ctrl+shft+F4 (Mixture Full Rich), then
ctrl+F4 (Propeller (High RPM), then
cntrl+e (Autostart)

[Milton Shupe]

Milton, hate to be a nit picker but the blue in the roundels on DU-P appear to be too blue. I use the following set:

ROUNDEL BLUE: Red: 67 Green: 74 Blue: 114 HTML: #434a72

Thanks, I'll pass this on to Wellis.

[Milton Shupe]

Thats better I would agree with that having found a performance chart. FWIW the reduced setting needed about 12 degrees of pitch to hold level above 5000 ft and climb was impossible.

Anyhow, Milton, the README stated that the LoadOut panel would come up when the aircraft starts up, it does not do this for me but is easily selectable via SHIFT+5. It seems most of it is working but I am confused about the weight issue. At the load up or start weight the aircraft is 4000lbs below its MGW so it should perform well and it does to a point but runs out of puff at its critical altitude about 8000 ft then will climb but only at 42"MP until about 15000 ft then that is it on my machine, that is the performance I would expect of a normally aspirated engine not a two stage supercharged one which would merely require a blower shift at about 12 to 14000 ft to keep the MP and the climb, the Havoc had a very respectable max ceiling of about F250. No change re the cylinder head temps they remain very cool from my perspective even a long hard climb does not shove them below the green minimums, cowls closed or cowls trailing. Is the hydraulic pressure to be modelled or factored in? I also had some issues with the mag switches, they indicate with the mouse but I cannot get them to go in any direction to do a mag check the prop levers work fine.

50% flap is two stages it seems.

No avionics switch, no problems thats what the radio operator is for, as long as they have battery power or generator power.

Yep and be careful with the cowl flap levers, selecting the left one it is easy to get the bomb bay doors open (made that mistake several times).

Still quite useable and fun and the updates when ever will just make it even better. Really enjoying this one as they said a real pilots aeroplane. Yep and it need a dose or right rudder trim on the climb just like a real aeroplane does with non counter-rotating props.

BF,

I do not see your performance issues at all. Just climbed to the service ceiling with no problems.

Once settled after take off, I set 47" MAP and 2400 RPMs. This held all the way to 15400', the stated critical altitude (that handles the blower shift to high).

Map fell off slowly as expected (after 15400') all the way to FL254 and RPMs held at 2400.
I adjusted trim one click up at FL230.

Speeds were maintained most of the way.

Take off weight was 19000lbs with full internal tanks. (will retest with 24000 lbs)

See attached.

I agree and will adjust oil temps to be more realistic. :-)

Climb speed minimum per the book is 160kias / 140mph.

[Milton Shupe]

Okay BF, re-ran the flight test to FL254 service ceiling, this time in FS9 as I no longer have the load out sheet in FSX. Performance is tuned for each sim.

Results nearly identical in FS9 at 24000+ lbs.

Climbout was done at 47" MAP, 2400 RPMs.

Map held steady to 15400 critical altitude simulating the 2-stage blower, then slowly decreased per 1000' to FL254 ending at about 32" (the boundary for blower shift).

Climb speed held well as Map decreased, and attitude decreased to compensate.
Climbout speed held around 185kias.

All in all, no issues climbing to service level where 100fpm is sustained at the settings stated.

So, not sure what we are doing differently here.

Here's a screen shot I took at FL254.