P3Dv.3 vs P3Dv.4

[TuFun]

Jordan King video! Sadly the scenery popping still there.



Currently myself running 16GB. Red box on right shows 10GB in use.

[YoYo]

Thx for posting this.

[falcon409]

Based on that video, I see very little difference and if there was a "Wow" factor that folks were expecting by going to 64 bit. . .not so much as far as I can tell at this point. Whatever I/O is. . .that was the only area where I saw what I assume is an improvement. Good reason to not jump right into the next gen and simply wait and see what improvements come over time.

[Daube]

The very important thing to notice is that P3Dv3 maxed out is being compared to P3Dv4 with a limited LOD_RADIUS.
And despite showing the same amount of autogen/scenery, P3Dv4 actually performs slightly better, with much less stuttering due to scenery loading (which becomes especially critical toward the end of the video).

Additionally, on that video the VAS in P3Dv3 got up to 2,2 Gb, which is still comfortable for sure, but that was with a simple aircraft with no AI traffic, clear weather etc...
P3Dv4 went up to 10 Gb of VAS... and could go higher without problems, no matter what.

[falcon409]

The very important thing to notice is that P3Dv3 maxed out is being compared to P3Dv4 with a limited LOD_RADIUS.

Which to me should mean that V4 should be showing better numbers, which I don't see.

. . .And despite showing the same amount of autogen/scenery, P3Dv4 actually performs slightly better, with much less stuttering due to scenery loading (which becomes especially critical toward the end of the video).

. . ."actually performs slightly better". That's what I came away with wondering. . .is that enough for people to be clambering to jump on the 64bit bandwagon?

Additionally, on that video the VAS in P3Dv3 got up to 2,2 Gb, which is still comfortable for sure, but that was with a simple aircraft with no AI traffic, clear weather etc...
P3Dv4 went up to 10 Gb of VAS... and could go higher without problems, no matter what.

Ok, as far as I'm aware I've never had a VAS problem despite everything I have loaded (specifically, Orbx Addons) and my slider settings which run to the high side everywhere except AI traffic (I run GA traffic almost exclusively and even that is only set to 50%). To continue, it was always my understanding that the more VAS usage, the closer you got to OOM problems. If V4 is using 5times more and running the same setup as 3.4 how is that a good thing??

Understand, I'm playing devils advocate here. . .some folks seem to be all googly eyed over the release of 64bit and based on that video and a previous one posted here I see little reason to leave P3D_V3.4 in the dust. I have no doubt that at some point V4_64bit will be everything people hoped it would be, but out of the box. . .I'm not necessarily impressed enough to dump a version that I've finally got running perfectly.

[papab]

Which to me should mean that V4 should be showing better numbers, which I don't see.


. . ."actually performs slightly better". That's what I came away with wondering. . .is that enough for people to be clambering to jump on the 64bit bandwagon?


Ok, as far as I'm aware I've never had a VAS problem despite everything I have loaded (specifically, Orbx Addons) and my slider settings which run to the high side everywhere except AI traffic (I run GA traffic almost exclusively and even that is only set to 50%). To continue, it was always my understanding that the more VAS usage, the closer you got to OOM problems. If V4 is using 5times more and running the same setup as 3.4 how is that a good thing??

Understand, I'm playing devils advocate here. . .some folks seem to be all googly eyed over the release of 64bit and based on that video and a previous one posted here I see little reason to leave P3D_V3.4 in the dust. I have no doubt that at some point V4_64bit will be everything people hoped it would be, but out of the box. . .I'm not necessarily impressed enough to dump a version that I've finally got running perfectly.

Absolutely agree Falcon!
I am staying with V3.4 till I see a reason to move over....
I am sure there is a P3DV4.1 release in the very near future, LOL

[roger-wilco-66]

I think the main advantage of V4 is the change toward the 64bit architecture itself as well as the new graphical possibilities and dynamic scenery that come along with it. All that has to be really employed though, so unless there are no addons that make use of the new features, the scenery and FSX style aircraft itself will look almost the same, all that maybe with a slightly better performance and more useful RAM.

I plan to run it from day 1 and see how it behaves when I throw some of my heavy stuff at it!

Cheers,
Mark

[Daube]

Which to me should mean that V4 should be showing better numbers, which I don't see.
...
. . ."actually performs slightly better". That's what I came away with wondering. . .is that enough for people to be clambering to jump on the 64bit bandwagon?

The performance is better, if you compare the FPS. The v4 is always 5 FPS (at least) above the v3, in average.
And the difference tends to get greater when heavy scenery comes into the screen. Sure it's not the revolution, but the 64 bits transition has never been about FPS, it was all about the fight against the OOMs.

Ok, as far as I'm aware I've never had a VAS problem despite everything I have loaded (specifically, Orbx Addons) and my slider settings which run to the high side everywhere except AI traffic (I run GA traffic almost exclusively and even that is only set to 50%).

Complex sceneries include major airports with a lot of AI traffic, not just an OrbX region with 50 of GA traffic only
I have also drastically reduced the settings in my P3Dv3 in order to avoid the OOMs. My FPS was good enough but the sim stability was bad, as I would often get a crash to desktop upon approach to my destination after a 1-2 hours flight. Now it's fine but I had to get rid of all my AI traffic (including the military one), and limit a few graphic options, and I don't have any really complex aircraft (PMDG and alike), only "smaller" aircrafts... And I'm not too happy about that. I wish I had a sim which wouldn't give any limitations excepted the FPS I get because of my hardware.

To continue, it was always my understanding that the more VAS usage, the closer you got to OOM problems. If V4 is using 5times more and running the same setup as 3.4 how is that a good thing??

OOM occurs when your sim reaches the maximum amount of RAM it is allowed to use.
I have currently 24 Gb of RAM on my computer.
P3Dv3 can use only 3,2 Gb out of them. Then it crashes. If I would install more RAM on my computer, it wouldn't change a thing, it would still crash because still unable to use more than 3,2 Gb.
P3Dv4 will not have this limitation. It will be able to use all the RAM it needs. On that video, which was taken in one of the heaviest OrbX regions, it was already using 10 Gb, which is less than half the RAM I currently have on my computer. This means that even with a very complex aicraft, AI traffic and complex additional sceneries, I am not going to reach the limit ever... and on Windows 10 64bits home edition, that limit is around 128 Gb if I'm not mistaken...

Understand, I'm playing devils advocate here. . .some folks seem to be all googly eyed over the release of 64bit and based on that video and a previous one posted here I see little reason to leave P3D_V3.4 in the dust. I have no doubt that at some point V4_64bit will be everything people hoped it would be, but out of the box. . .I'm not necessarily impressed enough to dump a version that I've finally got running perfectly.

But you are right, P3Dv4 is not that impressive on the visual level (well, excepted for the dynamic lights and the autogen distance, of course...). P3Dv4 is all about removing the stupid memory limitation we had to cope with for the last 11 years.

[gman5250]

IMO

Comparing the two simulators side by side is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. The significant difference in the 64 bit framework is the ability of the simulator to do just about anything you ask of it, but this is not a simulator for average systems. To get the most out of increased LOD capability alone, a monster card is going to be necessary. LM strongly suggest an 8 GB card, and those don't come cheap. I am looking seriously at the 11 GB GTX 1080 TI if I want to use the simulator as designed.

Even with my modest 3GB GTX 780, I can still run V4 with very acceptable average settings which still out perform and out render v3 maxxed. The most important thing to bear in mind is the ability in V4 to achieve very high levels of autogen, cloud and scenery render with much lower settings. This allows the user with a 2 or 3GB card to get into 64 bit without needing to run out and purchase an new card right away.

P3D v4 is probably not going to bring the "eye candy" to the game like other simulators, but it does bring a massive container that is more than capable of managing even the most demanding scenarios. The most important thing to bear in mind is with this release we get a much smoother, stronger and capable engine for developers to explore. At the moment, the appearance is very similar to v3, although very much more capable of rendering graphics than the previous. It is very subtle, but it is there.

I'm jumping in with this release because I see great opportunity for developers to stretch their wings and really...well....develop.

I think I said it before, but the arrival of 64 bit is the beginning of an entirely new era for those of us whom have been waiting patiently for many years. Where it goes from here is kind of an open book.

[Daube]

I guess we could say that P3Dv4 kind of allows us to enjoy P3Dv3 to the fullest

[falcon409]

IMO

Comparing the two simulators side by side is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. The significant difference in the 64 bit framework is the ability of the simulator to do just about anything you ask of it, but this is not a simulator for average systems. To get the most out of increased LOD capability alone, a monster card is going to be necessary. LM strongly suggest an 8 GB card, and those don't come cheap. I am looking seriously at the 11 GB GTX 1080 TI if I want to use the simulator as designed.

Even with my modest 3GB GTX 780, I can still run V4 with very acceptable average settings which still out perform and out render v3 maxxed. The most important thing to bear in mind is the ability in V4 to achieve very high levels of autogen, cloud and scenery render with much lower settings. This allows the user with a 2 or 3GB card to get into 64 bit without needing to run out and purchase an new card right away.

P3D v4 is probably not going to bring the "eye candy" to the game like other simulators, but it does bring a massive container that is more than capable of managing even the most demanding scenarios. The most important thing to bear in mind is with this release we get a much smoother, stronger and capable engine for developers to explore. At the moment, the appearance is very similar to v3, although very much more capable of rendering graphics than the previous. It is very subtle, but it is there.

I'm jumping in with this release because I see great opportunity for developers to stretch their wings and really...well....develop.

I think I said it before, but the arrival of 64 bit is the beginning of an entirely new era for those of us whom have been waiting patiently for many years. Where it goes from here is kind of an open book.

I agree that from a developers standpoint, the 64bit era promises great things and for the developer that's something to be excited about. For the average Flight Simmer, it will be more of a "wait and see how it develops" scenario I would think, nothing currently that would just knock your socks off, but the possibilities are there for future improvements.

. . . .but this is not a simulator for average systems. To get the most out of increased LOD capability alone, a monster card is going to be necessary. LM strongly suggest an 8 GB card, and those don't come cheap. I am looking seriously at the 11 GB GTX 1080 TI if I want to use the simulator as designed.

That statement is what I was fearful of. Just as a point of comparison: When I retired from the Military in 2007 I knew every face and most of the names of every person in my unit as well as all the pilots and crew chiefs. Today, I don't recognize anyone, including the pilots and crew chiefs. It has become a Unit of young up and coming. . .the "old guard" as it were, has been retired and as tough as that is to accept, it's the way it is and always has been.

I see this new 64bit world as basically doing the same thing. . .it will render the old guard, not necessarily obsolete, but it will slowly whittle away those of us who can no longer financially keep up with the biggest and best, just to enjoy the flight sim experience. It's inevitable and nothing wrong with that, but it is a reality of progress.

[falcon409]

I guess we could say that P3Dv4 kind of allows us to enjoy P3Dv3 to the fullest

Sure makes me happy to have a well running P3D_V3.4, lol

[vora]

I agree that from a developers standpoint, the 64bit era promises great things and for the developer that's something to be excited about. For the average Flight Simmer, it will be more of a "wait and see how it develops" scenario I would think, nothing currently that would just knock your socks off, but the possibilities are there for future improvements.
...

Ed, you and I and few others never had an OOM as we are pure GA flyers, but that makes us a minority, not average simmers. The "wait and see" will end the very second PMDG releases one of his whales for version 4.

[TuFun]

From Rob Ainscough,

If you compare Apples to Apples ... meaning you use equivalent V3 to V4 settings and don't use some of the additional features in V4, then you will see a 15-20% FPS increase in V4.


What an end user does with V4 graphics settings and add-on that will trigger stutters is entirely END USER'S CHOICE.


As far as memory, I've not exceed 16GB RAM with everything maxed out + some add-ons that I know use considerable memory. If you push the LOD beyond what's provided via the UI you'll use 10.9GB VRAM. My RAM and VRAM usage may increase in the future as we see more add-ons leverage higher resolution textures and more complex/realistic systems.


Cheers, Rob.

Rob runs 4k with Titan X.

15-20% FPS increase is pretty good!

[DagR]

Hi,

Bought!! This is going to be great. I have had numerous OOMs due to VAS usage and this will, no doubt, be the way to go for me. I will be running both 3.4 and 4 on the same machine until all the payware stuff I have is updated to v4, then I will most certainly get rid of v 3.4. I cannot understand all talk and negativity here about "no significant improvement". It's like having a 64-bit OS compared to a 32-bit. Now I can use all of the PCs resources on this sim. I see improvement for sure

Best
Dag

[crashaz]

I am in the bought camp as well... installing now. I have to go pick up my brother.... but I will be back to answer specific questions if you all have any later.

[ryanbatc]

I don't think we are expecting better fps (I'm not), but I'm expecting no OOM's which plagued me if I ran lots of addons and high settings (IE eye candy)

[UnknownGuest12]

Hi,

I will be running both 3.4 and 4 on the same machine until all the payware stuff I have is updated to v4, then I will most certainly get rid of v 3.4.

Best
Dag

Hi

This is a good idea! So is it possible to have both versions with no conflicts? And FTX Central 2 and 3? how can it be done?
Regards

[paiken]

Hi

This is a good idea! So is it possible to have both versions with no conflicts? And FTX Central 2 and 3? how can it be done?
Regards

Orbx will be updating their FTX Central 3 in the next day or two to migrate their products. They have stated that airports, airplanes and Vector WILL NOT be updated at this time. ObjectFlow (an integral part of most of their airports) and Vector both need to be rewritten in 64 bit code. Also, their airplanes will NOT be updated as the original authors are no longer available @ ORBX.

Also...I tried to migrate a couple of Carenado planes with poor results. Missing gauges and completely missing textures in the VC's make them currently unusable. Happily...the recent FSX conversions of Milton Shupe's planes work perfectly, including the Spartan and Aero Commanders.

[jeansy]

IMO

Comparing the two simulators side by side is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. The significant difference in the 64 bit framework is the ability of the simulator to do just about anything you ask of it, but this is not a simulator for average systems. To get the most out of increased LOD capability alone, a monster card is going to be necessary. LM strongly suggest an 8 GB card, and those don't come cheap. I am looking seriously at the 11 GB GTX 1080 TI if I want to use the simulator as designed.

Even with my modest 3GB GTX 780, I can still run V4 with very acceptable average settings which still out perform and out render v3 maxxed. The most important thing to bear in mind is the ability in V4 to achieve very high levels of autogen, cloud and scenery render with much lower settings. This allows the user with a 2 or 3GB card to get into 64 bit without needing to run out and purchase an new card right away.

P3D v4 is probably not going to bring the "eye candy" to the game like other simulators, but it does bring a massive container that is more than capable of managing even the most demanding scenarios. The most important thing to bear in mind is with this release we get a much smoother, stronger and capable engine for developers to explore. At the moment, the appearance is very similar to v3, although very much more capable of rendering graphics than the previous. It is very subtle, but it is there.

I'm jumping in with this release because I see great opportunity for developers to stretch their wings and really...well....develop.

I think I said it before, but the arrival of 64 bit is the beginning of an entirely new era for those of us whom have been waiting patiently for many years. Where it goes from here is kind of an open book.

totally agree,

another point to note is the VAS, where 32bit is limited and 64bit is a significant more, for new eye candy and fancy features aren't high my agenda , however the VAS is,

it means I can have the settings that work well for me and have the scenery I like and fly the aircraft where and how long I like without OOMs after 30-40mins which i suffer in 32bit

[fsafranek]

I am sure there is a P3DV4.1 release in the very near future, LOL

If there is it isn't being looked at by the beta testers yet.