F-94B Starfire

[Mick]

OK, I've done some testing on the ramp and in the air, and I found no flaws. Everything works as it should and nothing interferes with anything else.

There is one item, not a flaw but a matter of personal preference. The afterburner ignition sound doesn't come on in the external views, Spot or Fly-By (nee` "Tower" as FS will always know it ) and I would like it to be audible in all views. I see that the AB_Sound file intentionally shuts it off in Spot and Tower views. I would edit that out of my personal copy, but I don't understand the format or syntax, so I don't know what lines to delete.

If it would really be just a matter of deleting some lines, could I induce you to make me a copy of that file with the AB ignition sound audible in all views?

[Blackbird686]

I have the same issue with the AB sounds in the spot view, as well as the gun sounds, I can't hear them but the can still lights up on throttle demand and the gun tracers can be seen when the brakes are applied in flight. Also noticed that the "I" key activates the gun effect.

The engine sounds are superb and fit the throttle range perfectly, the jet handles very well in so long as you don't try to "over stick" the plane when there's a full fuel compliment on board... even so, an experienced pilot will know to keep her straight and level when crossing the fence.

I sharpened up the gauges in the VC view by changing the pixel size from 512 to 1024. Piglets gauges have always been very smooth and clear and that little trick really sharpens them up nicely. Now if I can just figure out what the deal is with the sounds.....

BB686

[Allen]

Mick
Afterburner ignition sound not playing in the external views was done as the dsd_xml_sound3.gau dosen't bind the sound to the source. This means no matter how close or far way the plane is from the cam the dsd_xml_sound3.gau would play the sound at full volume.

Blackbird686
"as well as the gun sounds, I can't hear them but the can still lights up on throttle demand"

What?

If your missing gun sound sounds on the external views. I know why. I messed up with the preview.zip Drop the xgun50.wav into your main Sound folder.

Attachment 50071

[Blackbird686]

Blackbird686
"as well as the gun sounds, I can't hear them but the can still lights up on throttle demand"

What?
Attachment 50071

Sorry Allen -- I aged myself there because I've been around some of those old "kerosene burners" in my youth and even still to this day. A "Can" is a slang term for a jet engine. When one "Lights up the can, or cans" it means going to afterburner. I knew an Air Force Colonel that always referenced the jet engines on the B-66 Destroyer as "cans". Sorry for the confusion...

BB686

[Mick]

Mick
Afterburner ignition sound not playing in the external views was done as the dsd_xml_sound3.gau dosen't bind the sound to the source. This means no matter how close or far way the plane is from the cam the dsd_xml_sound3.gau would play the sound at full volume...

I'd be OK with that. I'd rather have that than no sound. No sound might be better for the release version - that's your call - but for my own copy I'd like the sound, even though it wouldn't lose volume with distance.

When I go into the Panel and open the Afterburner.cab file I find an xml file (a gauge, I suppose) named AB_sound.xml. When I open that in Notepad it looks like what I've patched in at the end of this post. There are two places with Comments: "AB Sound Kill for Spot" and "AB Sound Kill for Tower" that must keep the sound from sounding in those views. My guess is that simply deleting the lines that those comments refer to would let the sound be heard in those views.

Alas, I can't figure out which lines those comments do and don't apply to, and I'm sure that removing too few or too many lines, or the wrong ones, would make a mess of the gauge. I could experiment for hours and not get it right.

Can you tell me which lines to delete and which ones to leave alone?

This is the gauge as it opens in Notepad:

<Gauge Name="AB_Sound"> Version="1.0">
<Comment>
"AB Sound On Throttle"
</Comment>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:GENERAL ENG1 THROTTLE LEVER POSITION,part) 0.98 &gt; (A:ENG1 N1 RPM,percent) 50 &gt; (A:LIGHT LOGO,number) 0 == ; &amp;&amp; &amp;&amp; if{ 2 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Sound Off Throttle"
</Comment>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:ENG1 N1 RPM,percent) 50 &lt; (A:GENERAL ENG1 THROTTLE LEVER POSITION,part) 0.98 &lt; || (A:LIGHT LOGO,number) 1 == ; &amp;&amp; if{ 0 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Sound Kill for Tower"
</Comment>
<Keys>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE">
1 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE_REV">
0 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
</Keys>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(P:ACTIVE VIEW MODE,enum) 3 ==
if{
(G:Var1)
if{ 0 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
els{ 2 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
}
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Sound Kill for Spot"
</Comment>
<Keys>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE">
1 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE_REV">
0 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
</Keys>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(P:ACTIVE VIEW MODE,enum) 4 ==
if{
(G:Var1)
if{ 0 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
els{ 2 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
}
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Start Sound On Throttle"
</Comment>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:GENERAL ENG1 THROTTLE LEVER POSITION,part) 0.98 &gt; (A:ENG1 N1 RPM,percent) 50 &gt; (A:LIGHT LOGO,bool) 0 == ; &amp;&amp; &amp;&amp; if{ 1 (>L:AB_Start, enum) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Start Sound Kill for Tower"
</Comment>
<Keys>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE">
1 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE_REV">
0 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
</Keys>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(P:ACTIVE VIEW MODE,enum) 3 ==
if{
(G:Var1)
if{ 0 (>L:AB_Start, enum) }
els{ 2 (>L:AB_Start, enum) }
}
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Start Sound Kill for Spot"
</Comment>
<Keys>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE">
1 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE_REV">
0 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
</Keys>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(P:ACTIVE VIEW MODE,enum) 4 ==
if{
(G:Var1)
if{ 0 (>L:AB_Start, enum) }
els{ 2 (>L:AB_Start, enum) }
}
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
</Gauge>

[Allen]

Blackbird686
Did the xgun50.wav fix your lack of gun sounds on the external views?

The "I" key will have to remain. It is now user choice of Brakes or Smoke for the guns. This is noted in the checklist.

Mick
.cab files are like .zip but much more of a pain in the . To make a .cab I had to lean the DOS command line for the MakeCab.exe hiding in Windows. For your own F-94 it would prob be easier to just delete the AB_Start.wav and go back to the fx_afterburner.fx that has sound.

[Blackbird686]

Blackbird686
Did the xgun50.wav fix your lack of gun sounds on the external views?

The "I" key will have to remain. It is now user choice of Brakes or Smoke for the guns. This is noted in the checklist.

Allen --

Placed the xgun50.wav in the main FS9 sound folder, trying to clean up the textures just a bit. Unfortunately, that's as far as I got. I'll have a go later today and report back. (Real World Issues).

BB686

[Mick]

... cab files are like .zip but much more of a pain in the . To make a .cab I had to lean the DOS command line for the MakeCab.exe hiding in Windows. For your own F-94 it would prob be easier to just delete the AB_Start.wav and go back to the fx_afterburner.fx that has sound.

I'm, not clear on just what you mean by your suggestion, as to what to put or remove from where, but it doesn't matter because - I did it! I edited the gauge and got the afterburner ignition sound audible in all views!

Woo-HOO !!! WHUMP !!!

There's no need to mess with cab files. Gauges work just as well from a simple folder. Some say they work better that way because FS doesn't have to use compressed files from a cab. I can't vouch for that last part, but I know that a folder works at least as well as a cab file. I just tried it and got my F-94 working the way I want it. (One could also just drop the gauges into the panel folder loose, but then it would be necessary to edit the panel.cfg file to make FS look for them there.)

I emptied the files from F98B_Afterburn.cab, put them in a folder named F98B_Afterburn (no suffix) and deleted the cab file. Then I opened the gauge in Notepad and deleted the sections that shut off the sounds in the external views. Perfect! FOOMP! in all views!

The only tricky parts were that I didn't notice at first that the deletions have to be made in two places,and that I also had to edit the Lights section and replace the effect "AB_Start No Sound" with "AB_Start." Those two things had me scratching my head for a while.

[Allen]

Had no idea that FS04 could read .xml outside of a .cab....

[Mick]

Had no idea that FS04 could read .xml outside of a .cab....

I don't recall where I learned that. I think I may have read it in a post I stumbled onto in the Dark Side forum (FSX).

I did a lot of fiddling about for little accomplished; after all of today's fiddling I've managed to get to where I was yesterday by a slightly different route.

I have the afterburner ignition sound in all four views, which was my main goal, so I'm very happy.

I still hear an initial Whump when I turn on the lights. I thought I'd gotten rid of that Whump but no, it only worked once, apparently by some glitch, and it wasn't replicable. It comes from having the AB effects in the Lights section and can't be avoided without losing the effects completely. I should've realized up front that no amount of fiddling could change that.

That's OK. One of the first things I do is turn on the lights, so the undesired Whump! is over before I really start a flight, and it never returns unless I want it when I light the burner. I have no problem living with with that. It passes readily as just another random airport noise.

It was so long ago that I don't recall if I had a habit of turning the lights on before starting the engine back in my brief time flying real airplanes. I suspect that I may have picked up the habit in FS from watching Capt. A.I. Pilot do it that way; he turns his lights on before he starts his engines. I don't think the Captain is a very good role model - he's very careless and pays little attention to where he's going - his situational awareness is about zilch and he doesn't seem to care. But I think I may have let him influence me in regard to turning on the lights before turning the key.

There's one little tidbit I'm still wondering about. I was concerned that the AB start sound might be too loud in the cockpit views, and in fact it's turned out to be rather soft. Is there a quick, easy way to turn it up? It's not worth a lot of trouble, but if there's a simple way I'll do it.

[Allen]

Have you gone back to the fx_afterburner.fx that has the sound or using the gague based AB_Start.wav.

[Mick]

Have you gone back to the fx_afterburner.fx that has the sound or using the gauge based AB_Start.wav.

I haven't made the change because I don't know where in which file or files to make the substitution. I'd like to give it a try but I'll need a bit of explanation.

[Allen]

If your using the fx_afterburner_no_sound.fx The AB_Start.wav plays the AB pop/boom.

[Mick]

If your using the fx_afterburner_no_sound.fx The AB_Start.wav plays the AB pop/boom.

Huh???

I have the fx_afterburner_no_sound.fx in the panel folder, though I have no idea what it does. I've been wondering about that. I only know that if I play it I get a microsecond of silence. I have no idea if it's actually used for anything or why there would be a need for a silent sound file.

I also have the AB_Start.wav in the panel folder. When I play it, it sounds just like the sound that goes with fx_afterburner.fx at the same volume, or so close that I don't hear any difference. But in the sim, it's considerably louder in the external views. In Spot of Fly-By it's just as I think it should be. In Panel and VC views it has noticeably less volume and tends to almost get lost in the engine sounds. Oddly, that wasn't so before I made that very same sound audible in the external views, though I didn't do anything at all with the internal views. Very curious. I would like to turn it up in the internal views if that can be done without making a big project of it.

What I don't follow is the meaning behind your question about which file I'm using. When you suggest substituting the fx_afterburner.fx file for the AB_Start.wav, do you mean to just substitute the one for the other in the panel folder? Won't that require edits to some files? Which ones?

I'm sorry to be so easily confused.

[Allen]

This is way harder than it needs to be.

There are only 2 ways to do the afterburner sounds.

1# Use the fx_afterburner.fx in the aircraft.cfg and have the AB pop/boom play any time you hit "L"

2# Use the fx_afterburner_no_sound.fx in the aircraft.cfg and have the dsd_xml_sound3.gau play the AB_Start.wav

For #1 you need use the fx_afterburner.fx in the aircraft.cfg and to delete the AB_Start.wav in the panel.

For #2 do nothing as the F98B_2.0_Preview.zip is set up this way.

[Mick]

This is way harder than it needs to be.
There are only 2 ways to do the afterburner sounds.
1# Use the fx_afterburner.fx in the aircraft.cfg and have the AB pop/boom play any time you hit "L"
2# Use the fx_afterburner_no_sound.fx in the aircraft.cfg and have the dsd_xml_sound3.gau play the AB_Start.wav
For #1 you need use the fx_afterburner.fx in the aircraft.cfg and to delete the AB_Start.wav in the panel.
For #2 do nothing as the F98B_2.0_Preview.zip is set up this way.

Yes, I know all that. Nothing new, difficult or confusing about it. All that was plain yesterday, as my posts clearly indicated (or so I thought.) I use option 1, as I stated a few times now.

My question wasn't about how to set up the afterburner sounds, it was whether there's a way to adjust the volume. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear - I thought I'd made that very clear, more than once. If you didn't know the answer, or if the answer is that it can't be done, all you had to do was say so.

I figured it could probably be done because setting up option 1 or option 2 produces significantly different volume levels from the same sound file. Adding the sound to the views that didn't have it produces the full volume in the external views that didn't have it at all, but somehow it becomes partly muted in the internal views where it was at full volume before.

What's confusing is that nothing I did seems to have any way of affecting the volume in the views I didn't edit, since I didn't edit them, yet the volume in those views changed. That, plus the same sound file now having different volumes in different views, seems to suggest that the volume in the various views can be controlled somehow, but maybe it can't be. Or maybe it just takes someone smarter than either of us to figure it out.

Never mind. It's not a big deal at all, and just asking the question seems to be more trouble than the answer is probably worth.

[Blackbird686]

Sorry for the delay in reporting, but the gun sounds work after dropping the xgun50 wav file into the main FS9 sound folder. I have 2 different variants of the F-94B, the other being nothing more that my version 1.9 copy... lots of afterburner and the guns aren't active. It's a lot more intricate than I thought but I'm still working on the effects... and I'm no expert at this stuff either.

BB686

[Allen]

Ah cool. Will work on get the final pack up done now.

[Allen]

Version 2.0 has been uploaded.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...2671&catid=204

Thanks to every one that made this possible!

[Blackbird686]

Hey Allen -- Check your PM's when you get a chance.

BB686