MV22B Rel1.0 released

[freded]

IF I were you, which I'm not of course, I would turn down the sensitivity of the pitch and roll axes of your joystick a little. And yes, I have the same roll problem, and I haven't been able to figure it out. YET. There is a weight, somewhere, that is either off center, or on the wrong side. I'll finger it out. All you can do is keep correcting for it. I have the Null zones on my joystick set to 0, so I can keep the movements very small. But I have a tunnel diode type joystick, and they do best with 0 Null zones. The potentiometer type joysticks need their null zones set to compensate for the "blank" around the pot's center. All pot's have them, and they're all different. So every potentiometer type joystick will have different null settings.
Until I do get the roll figured out, just use the VV in the PFD to get to where the HH will catch hold. VERY gently and carefully move it slowly to the center of the PFD, and hit the HH button right away. I keep the mouse cursor over the HH button, and click when I have it centered up. Once you have the HH active, you can move the red crosshairs in the Down Camera window, SHFT+2, over the center of the load you want. Remember, you can achieve up to 6 kts in hover hold, with the hold active. If you hit the HH button when near the loads someplace, moving over them and holding is pretty easy.

Kalong, sir, the plane rolls left (port) whether there's any wind or not, or whether it's in motion, or perfectly still, without the Hover Hold on. The wind can be set to 0, and it still rolls slowly left. No matter how carefully calibrated the joystick has been. Like I said, I believe there's a weight someplace that's not quite correctly positioned, or the engine thrust direction is off-center, SOMEthing. I'll figure it out and post here eventually. Just a little busy these next couple of days. Give me a little bit of time. If I switch to a different plane, it doesn't happen, so I know it's just the MV-22. Of course, if someone else were to figure it out first, well...


Have fun all!
Pat☺

Pat,

Thanks. I'll try turning down the sensitivities.

Never heard of a tunnel diode joystick. Are they better than the pot type? And who makes them?

Glad I'm not the only one with that left-roll problem. Hope you or Maryadi can sort it out - it's a real b*gger!

What's the 'VV'?

Mark

[PhantomTweak]

A tunnel diode is a diode that's held reversed biased, preventing any current flow through it. When the reverse bias gets high enough, though, the electrons have enough "oomph" to push, or "tunnel", through the diode. The greater it gets, the more current flow there is. A tunnel diode joystick has the diodes on each axis, rather than pots. They are held in such a state that the slightest movement of the joystick off-center increases their reverse bias slightly. The current through them is then used to just like the pot type. Essentially, you can consider them solid-state pots. Thus, no null zone needed, since there isn't one to the diode like there is to a pot. ALL pots have a "blank" range around the center position, varying in size on each pot. It's the way they're manufactured. No matter how good they are, there's still that dead zone around center. Every pot, thus, every axis, is slightly different, though. When the sim came out, that was all that was commercially available for the public to use, the potentiometer type joysticks, and thus, the null zone setting is there to compensate. It's supposed to make the sim ignore the joystick inputs until the stick has traveled far enough to get out of the pot's dead zone.
Since there isn't a dead zone to tunnel diodes, the null zone may be set to 0, so the sim receives input instantly it's generated. The only exception is the rudder axis, since the human hand isn't perfect, and sometimes it's possible that you will twist a little during other motions. You can set the null zone to protect from that, otherwise, not needed.
My joy-stick is a Thrustmaster, the HOTAS-X version. Ever since I went to tunnel diode type joysticks a while back, I will never look back. 0 null zones, darn near full sensitivity. Only time I turn the sensitivity down slightly is if the individual plane requires it. They're easy enough to find. Just Google Tunnel Diode Joystick. There's many out these days. They're the wave of the future.
Another consideration is that pots get dirty over time, as I'm sure you've found. Diodes can't. Solid-State devices, like transistors. No where for dirt to get into, no way for them to get "noisy" like pots can.
If that's the case, though, that the sensitivity needs adjusting, I usually go into the aircraft.cfg and adjust the settings in the [flight_tuning] section until it's working as I think it should. I never publish what I do, so copyrights aren't a major issue, as a rule. If it's looking like it might be, I will do everything I can to contact the author/dev, and get permission. I also always keep an untouched copy of the aircraft.cfg available, just in case. You know, good ol' Justin Case, I'm sure

A VV is the Velocity Vector. The little circle with the three lines coming out of it, one to each side, one upward. It indicates the planes path through the air (hopefully!!).

Sorry I get wordy sometimes. It's what I get for having a BSEE. Hope all my babbling helps a little...
Pat☺

[kalong]

Pat,

Thanks. I'll try turning down the sensitivities.

Never heard of a tunnel diode joystick. Are they better than the pot type? And who makes them?

Glad I'm not the only one with that left-roll problem. Hope you or Maryadi can sort it out - it's a real b*gger!

What's the 'VV'?

Mark

if difting on VTOL mode, Rob will handle it. I will make test for it too.

[PhantomTweak]

if difting on VTOL mode, Rob will handle it. I will make test for it too.

It only drifts in Hover Hold if you don't have it perfectly motionless when you hit the HH switch. It holds the attitude the plane was in when the switch was pressed, as long as that is within the required parameters. Those parameters permit the plane to be moving very very slightly, IE: the attitude isn't zero'd out exactly.
That's why I recommended using the VV to get the plane to hover correctly, or un-moving, when HH selected. If the nacelle's are at 90°, and the VV is centered when the HH switch is pressed, the plane won't move in the Hover. Until you make it move in some direction with the joystick, anyway. It may take a few seconds to zero out any movement that may have been generated after the switched was pressed, but once the gauge catches up, it will hold the attitude it was in. Doesn't take it but a second or 2.
It can be a bit of a task to get the VV to center up, and hold it while you press the HH button, but once you get it right, the plane will hover motionless. If you don't have it just right when the switch is pressed, you should be able to zero out any motion with the joystick, as the Hover Hold won't permit you to activate it unless the plane is to the point where any motion the plane makes when in hover hold is within the capability of the joystick to stop.
An alternative to using the VV is to use the down-camera (SHFT+2). Watch it, and try to zero out any motion you see the plane making over the ground, THEN press the HH button. Still takes a lot of concentration and very fine joystick control to get the plane to hold still so you can press the Hover Hold button.

The plane doesn't drift when in hover hold, unless the plane isn't perfectly motionless when the button is pressed. Like I said, it does exactly as advertized, holding the attitude the plane was in when HH button was pressed. If the attitude wasn't precisely 0°, then the plane will drift slightly. As I said though, the joystick should be able to hold it motionless, if needed. Or move it to, just for example, the position of a sling load on the ground. Just for example

I think the "drift" freded was referring to was the slow roll to port (drift) the plane makes, though. I may be wrong on that, though.

Hope all my babbling is some use...
Pat☺

[freded]

A tunnel diode is a diode that's held reversed biased, preventing any current flow through it. When the reverse bias gets high enough, though, the electrons have enough "oomph" to push, or "tunnel", through the diode. The greater it gets, the more current flow there is. A tunnel diode joystick has the diodes on each axis, rather than pots. They are held in such a state that the slightest movement of the joystick off-center increases their reverse bias slightly. The current through them is then used to just like the pot type. Essentially, you can consider them solid-state pots. Thus, no null zone needed, since there isn't one to the diode like there is to a pot. ALL pots have a "blank" range around the center position, varying in size on each pot. It's the way they're manufactured. No matter how good they are, there's still that dead zone around center. Every pot, thus, every axis, is slightly different, though. When the sim came out, that was all that was commercially available for the public to use, the potentiometer type joysticks, and thus, the null zone setting is there to compensate. It's supposed to make the sim ignore the joystick inputs until the stick has traveled far enough to get out of the pot's dead zone.
Since there isn't a dead zone to tunnel diodes, the null zone may be set to 0, so the sim receives input instantly it's generated. The only exception is the rudder axis, since the human hand isn't perfect, and sometimes it's possible that you will twist a little during other motions. You can set the null zone to protect from that, otherwise, not needed.
My joy-stick is a Thrustmaster, the HOTAS-X version. Ever since I went to tunnel diode type joysticks a while back, I will never look back. 0 null zones, darn near full sensitivity. Only time I turn the sensitivity down slightly is if the individual plane requires it. They're easy enough to find. Just Google Tunnel Diode Joystick. There's many out these days. They're the wave of the future.
Another consideration is that pots get dirty over time, as I'm sure you've found. Diodes can't. Solid-State devices, like transistors. No where for dirt to get into, no way for them to get "noisy" like pots can.
If that's the case, though, that the sensitivity needs adjusting, I usually go into the aircraft.cfg and adjust the settings in the [flight_tuning] section until it's working as I think it should. I never publish what I do, so copyrights aren't a major issue, as a rule. If it's looking like it might be, I will do everything I can to contact the author/dev, and get permission. I also always keep an untouched copy of the aircraft.cfg available, just in case. You know, good ol' Justin Case, I'm sure

A VV is the Velocity Vector. The little circle with the three lines coming out of it, one to each side, one upward. It indicates the planes path through the air (hopefully!!).

Sorry I get wordy sometimes. It's what I get for having a BSEE. Hope all my babbling helps a little...
Pat☺

Pat,

Very interesting! I used to mess about with radios before they introduced transistors (I believe that was in the Jurassic era?!), so I understand basic electronics. But tunnel diodes are too recent for me to have heard more then the name. Thanks for the explanation.

I've taken your recommendation seriously and have ordered a Thrustmaster HOTAS-X (I see from a posting of yours on 'https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?296882-Thrustmaster-Hotas-X&highlight=tunnel', that it should be pronounced '"Hot-A$$", not "Ho-Taws"' ) from Amazon.ca. It was my lucky day because I was able to use a gift certificate (given to me by my two daughters for Fathers' Day) so it cost me zilch! They say it'll arrive in 2-3 weeks, so I'll have to struggle on with my old CH FS Yoke and Saitek Rudder pedals till then. One question about the HOTAS-X: does the throttle section enable PropPitch and Mixture control as well as, obviously, Throttle?

I'll try changing some values in the MV-22's aircraft.cfg [flight_tuning] for elevator,aileron and rudder and see if that helps. And backup the file for Justin Case!

I wondered what that "little circle with the three lines coming out of it" was. Handy for manoevering.

I like your wordiness - you explain things very clearly.

Mark

[freded]

Pat,

Thanks for the hints on managing HH.

Can you move the MV-22 while HH is engaged without losing HH? Occasionally I notice the 'HH' in the Down Camera view flickers - does this mean it is losing its grip on the A/C?

Mark

[Josh Patterson]

Downloaded but... impossible to install. FSX crashes any time I try to load the Osprey.

I had this happen the first few times I tried running Milviz's F-4 way back in the beta days. Launching FSX as administrator finally got it up and running. (Milviz's support is SO helpful! I never would have thought of trying that!) Maybe it will work for the Osprey as well. I'm currently downloading it. Will post my results.

[Josh Patterson]

I had this happen the first few times I tried running Milviz's F-4 way back in the beta days. Launching FSX as administrator finally got it up and running. (Milviz's support is SO helpful! I never would have thought of trying that!) Maybe it will work for the Osprey as well. I'm currently downloading it. Will post my results.

Works okay on my machine running FSX Gold. For those who don't want to read the manual, the rotors tilt via your aileron trim inputs and the flaps are linked to them. (Mine are currently set to the keyboard, so tricky to adjust nacelles, power and steer all at the same time!)

[kalong]

Works okay on my machine running FSX Gold. For those who don't want to read the manual, the rotors tilt via your aileron trim inputs and the flaps are linked to them. (Mine are currently set to the keyboard, so tricky to adjust nacelles, power and steer all at the same time!)

you can change aileron trim to full flap up (F5) and full flap down (F8), as Full flap aren't useful enough. flap control already have increment/decrement flap (F6/F7). you can use your mouse as joystick control if you didn't have a joystick, easier than using keyboard command.

[PhantomTweak]

that it should be pronounced '"Hot-A$$", not "Ho-Taws"' )

That's what the pilots at '401 told me. They got a huge giggle about the press making their interviewees change it, but the higher-higher wants good press relations, soooo...
Amongst themselves, well, you know how they pronounce it!

does the throttle section enable PropPitch and Mixture control as well as, obviously, Throttle?

Do you mean simultaneously? I wouldn't think so. You'd have to assign the different functions, Prop Pitch and Mixture, to the throttle axis, but if you assign all 3 at the same time, well, I think you see the problems that would arise. Being the cheap SOB that I am, I just use the keyboard for the pitch and mixture. The default assignments.
I learned gaming with only a KB and the DOOM game (which I dearly love!), so using KB commands is something I'm used to, and it's actually more comfortable for me.

I wondered what that "little circle with the three lines coming out of it" was. Handy for manoevering.

Glad I could help. I've found that if I'm not very careful, I learn new stuff every day!

Can you move the MV-22 while HH is engaged without losing HH? Occasionally I notice the 'HH' in the Down Camera view flickers - does this mean it is losing its grip on the A/C?

Yes, that's what the flicker means. Yes, you can move the AC in hover hold BUT: if you tilt the nacelles more than 1 or 2 degrees, it will kick off. If you adjust the throttle, it will kick off. If you are in a stationary HH, you can move in any direction, up to 6 kts. Fore-aft, left-right, etc.
If you are in a moving HH, like 30kts, lets say, again, you can change the speed up to 6 kts, so 24-36 kts total. Great for zeroing in on the landing point you want for a load. You can also make it drift side to side by 6 kts if in a moving HH. The latest version permits you to be moving up to 40kts, with less than 200 f/min vertical speed, and less than 10° pitch or roll, and still engage HH. Great for chasing down a ship more rapidly, but without HH on you need to slow to about 25 kts , then re-engaging it to match up with the ship, and finding the landing point you desire, and lowering it down.
The HH limitations to engage and remain engaged may be found in the Readme_v4.0 that came out with the gauges. I suggest a perusal may be in order, perhaps, no? Good info in there and lots of it. It's long but worth the time.

Other than that, sounds like you will be in 7th heaven when you get the new joystick. You have wonderful daughters. My 3 never did anything like that....<sniff>

Have fun!
Pat

[freded]

does the throttle section enable PropPitch and Mixture control as well as, obviously, Throttle?



Do you mean simultaneously? I wouldn't think so. You'd have to assign the different functions, Prop Pitch and Mixture, to the throttle axis, but if you assign all 3 at the same time, well, I think you see the problems that would arise. Being the cheap SOB that I am, I just use the keyboard for the pitch and mixture. The default assignments.
I learned gaming with only a KB and the DOOM game (which I dearly love!), so using KB commands is something I'm used to, and it's actually more comfortable for me.

I wondered what that "little circle with the three lines coming out of it" was. Handy for manoevering.



Glad I could help. I've found that if I'm not very careful, I learn new stuff every day!

Can you move the MV-22 while HH is engaged without losing HH? Occasionally I notice the 'HH' in the Down Camera view flickers - does this mean it is losing its grip on the A/C?



Yes, that's what the flicker means. Yes, you can move the AC in hover hold BUT: if you tilt the nacelles more than 1 or 2 degrees, it will kick off. If you adjust the throttle, it will kick off. If you are in a stationary HH, you can move in any direction, up to 6 kts. Fore-aft, left-right, etc.
If you are in a moving HH, like 30kts, lets say, again, you can change the speed up to 6 kts, so 24-36 kts total. Great for zeroing in on the landing point you want for a load. You can also make it drift side to side by 6 kts if in a moving HH. The latest version permits you to be moving up to 40kts, with less than 200 f/min vertical speed, and less than 10° pitch or roll, and still engage HH. Great for chasing down a ship more rapidly, but without HH on you need to slow to about 25 kts , then re-engaging it to match up with the ship, and finding the landing point you desire, and lowering it down.
The HH limitations to engage and remain engaged may be found in the Readme_v4.0 that came out with the gauges. I suggest a perusal may be in order, perhaps, no? Good info in there and lots of it. It's long but worth the time.

Other than that, sounds like you will be in 7th heaven when you get the new joystick. You have wonderful daughters. My 3 never did anything like that....<sniff>

Have fun!
Pat


Reply:-

First off: The 'Reply with Quote' is suddenly not 'Quoting'. So I had to do a Ctrl+C -> Ctrl+V... I've put my questions in Italic;and your replies in bold, to make it clearer.

I certainly could use the KB when I get the new ThrustMaster.

Have already read the Readme_ v4.0 but didn't remember all the details - so am reading it again!

Having fun already!

Mark

[kalong]

does the throttle section enable PropPitch and Mixture control as well as, obviously, Throttle?

no, only PropPitch are same as throttle.
mixture are automatic that controlled inside dll gauge.

add note:
oops... sorry, I talking about Osprey throttle. not setting up in general

[PhantomTweak]

add note:
oops... sorry, I talking about Osprey throttle. not setting up in general

No problem.

Every bit of information is useful to someone, sometime. Info never hurts at all!

Pat☺

[Josh Patterson]

you can change aileron trim to full flap up (F5) and full flap down (F8), as Full flap aren't useful enough. flap control already have increment/decrement flap (F6/F7). you can use your mouse as joystick control if you didn't have a joystick, easier than using keyboard command.

Yeah, I have my flap increment buttons linked to my joystick along with brakes, elevator trim and air brakes. Looks like I'll be up grading to a new setup with separate throttles with button commands on them. (That's where the speed brake button/switch is on most military types anyway.) I also want to get a set of pedals. For now I'll manage. It's only awkward with my setup going through the transition, after that smooth sailing. This Osprey really flies nicely either in the hover or horizontal flight (and I LOVE the prop animations!) I did get the uncommanded roll some people have experienced once on my early flights, but have done three further successful T&Gs with full transitions with no further issues. (I have hand flown the last ones all with the autopilot off, maybe that's where the glitch is.)

[kalong]

.... I did get the uncommanded roll some people have experienced once on my early flights, but have done three further successful T&Gs with full transitions with no further issues. (I have hand flown the last ones all with the autopilot off, maybe that's where the glitch is.)

nope, that intentional. part of Vortex Ring State (VRS) as real aircraft have this big problem.

[rcbarend]

Hi Guys (Pat, Mark)

After reading a few of the earlier posts, maybe some explanation.

First, to have no misunderstanding on the used terms in general, when in a hover:
"Drift" is the sideways movement (lateral speed) of the V22, caused by either bankattitude no being zero (== "roll") or crosswind not being zero.
Meaning that you can also compensate crosswind by banking (rolling) the V22 a bit into the wind.

As to HoverHold:
You can activate HH, when a few conditions are met (see README); if these conditions are met (the "HH" string in the Downcamera window will blink) clicking the HoverCPLD button (or apply brakes) activates HH.
If HH is ON, it will Always stay ON untill you manually deactivate it again, OR change the Throttle OR change nacelles angle.

What HH will do in V4 of the addon:
it will hold the pitch and bank attitude (and therewith fore/aft and sideways speed) with the values they have at activation of HH; you can change (within limits) fore/aft speed with elevator input and sideways speed with aileron input of the stick, but the pitch/bank attitude remains the same as it was, as does altitude.
Heading ("yaw") can still be changed by applying rudder.
So if you experiance roll during HH, it should be constant and the same as at activation.

If you cannot make small changes in fore/aft and sideways speed (to remain hovering over an object on the ground, or over the deck of a moving carrier), my guess is the stick isn't working (or calibrated) properly.
Note though, that trying to pickup an object from a moving ship really IS a challenge, even with HH on.

As a sidenote:
In an earlier version of the addon, I implemented HH a bit different: with elevator/aileron input zero, fore/aft and sideways speed (and pitch/bank attitude) was forced to zero; which made it far easier to hover/pickup an object on the ground.
Probably too easy ...LoL
However, this method doesn't work of course when you want to use HH to hover over a moving ship, so I opted for the way it works now in addon V4.

Rob

[PhantomTweak]

So if you experiance roll during HH, it should be constant and the same as at activation.

I guess I didn't explain it very well. The uncommanded roll being experienced is when not in Hover Hold.
However, if I understand his post correctly, and I admit, I'm not necessarily the brightest bulb in the string, then the uncommanded roll is caused by this:

nope, that intentional. part of Vortex Ring State (VRS) as real aircraft have this big problem.

I almost never fly with the autopilot. I don't touch the AP panel, except for the Hover Hold switch if I need it, and only when the VV is perfectly centered. So the AP is configured as it is when the plane is loaded in.
I also turn off the Special Features button on the main panel, and the VRS switch on the overhead panel. I never press the Autopilot Cpld button. I may well be missing something, however. I still get the uncommanded roll, though.

I will do more testing. I may have missed a switch on the AP panel, that needs to be off to prevent the roll.
I didn't see anything in the Aircraft.cfg file that could cause it, but I will look in the AP settings, and the AP gauge file to see what's going on. If it's built in to the AP, as Mr. Kalong (or should I use Maryadi?) seems to suggest in his post, then it's working correctly.
I don't load the plane from a saved flight. I wonder if that could be the trouble? Some of the sections in the Flight Manual seem to suggest it could be, now that I've read it more carefully.

On an entirely separate subject, a question for Rob, if I may: How could I go about moving the Down Camera's point of view, ie: where the crosshairs appear to be looking down from, to more exactly match the modified position of the hoist line? As it stands, the hoist cable is aft the camera's point of view, due to my making it come down from the main hoist doors on the underside of the fuselage. Because of the cable's relatively broad area permitting a hook-up to a load, the crosshairs are OK if the cable extends down more than about 15 feet or so, so it's not a critical thing. I just wanted to try and make things all line up right.

Thanks to Mr. Kalong and Rob for their invaluable help. Every little bit of information is good to have!

Enjoy all!
Pat☺

[Josh Patterson]

nope, that intentional. part of Vortex Ring State (VRS) as real aircraft have this big problem.

Ohh! A reply from the guy responsible!! I knew about a problem with being unable to recover from a high sink rate when the rotors start biting recirculated air close to the ground and losing lift increasing the sink rate. I suppose if one rotor was affected while the other was not a roll would develop. Great job on your homework and on the aircraft as a whole! Glad to have the chance to tell you that the sound is awesome (though it should probably be even louder as it is amazing how noisy these are in the hover) and I really love the prop animation. I've tried my hand at building a plane using Milton's YouTube tutorials and I know now how difficult this is! You upped the stakes by tackling a very complex aircraft (and flight model)! Looking forward to your next project! (I will also be putting some coin in your donation jar!)

[kalong]

I almost never fly with the autopilot. I don't touch the AP panel, except for the Hover Hold switch if I need it, and only when the VV is perfectly centered. So the AP is configured as it is when the plane is loaded in.
I also turn off the Special Features button on the main panel, and the VRS switch on the overhead panel. I never press the Autopilot Cpld button. I may well be missing something, however. I still get the uncommanded roll, though.

when VRS switch on, mean aircraft will get uncommanded roll when high rate of descent. to disable uncommanded roll, VRS switch must off. VRS switch aren't connected with autopilot. more over VRS only happen when nacelles above 83 degrees (if I not remember), in meantime autopilot will not work when nacelles > 0 degrees.

I will do more testing. I may have missed a switch on the AP panel, that needs to be off to prevent the roll.
I didn't see anything in the Aircraft.cfg file that could cause it, but I will look in the AP settings, and the AP gauge file to see what's going on. If it's built in to the AP, as Mr. Kalong (or should I use Maryadi?) seems to suggest in his post, then it's working correctly.
I don't load the plane from a saved flight. I wonder if that could be the trouble? Some of the sections in the Flight Manual seem to suggest it could be, now that I've read it more carefully.

obviously it not necessary to make test on uncommanded roll as I explain on previous. please use "Maryadi".

Ohh! A reply from the guy responsible!! I knew about a problem with being unable to recover from a high sink rate when the rotors start biting recirculated air close to the ground and losing lift increasing the sink rate. I suppose if one rotor was affected while the other was not a roll would develop. Great job on your homework and on the aircraft as a whole! Glad to have the chance to tell you that the sound is awesome (though it should probably be even louder as it is amazing how noisy these are in the hover) and I really love the prop animation. I've tried my hand at building a plane using Milton's YouTube tutorials and I know now how difficult this is! You upped the stakes by tackling a very complex aircraft (and flight model)! Looking forward to your next project! (I will also be putting some coin in your donation jar!)

yes, it very complex aircraft almost in all aspect, model, animation, and gauge. but I not stand alone, I have expert guys that always help me. Thank you for your support, that mean something to me.

Regards, Maryadi

[PhantomTweak]

Thank you very much, Maryadi. I appreciate the quick, and most informative, response.
I really appreciate the hard work you put into this plane. It's a real joy to fly, and there are so many "things" you can do with it. Just super fun indeed!
Eagerly awaiting the v2. Hope it comes out soon!
Pat☺

[rcbarend]

I guess I didn't explain it very well. The uncommanded roll being experienced is when not in Hover Hold.
However, if I understand his post correctly, and I admit, I'm not necessarily the brightest bulb in the string, then the uncommanded roll is caused by this:

I almost never fly with the autopilot. I don't touch the AP panel, except for the Hover Hold switch if I need it, and only when the VV is perfectly centered. So the AP is configured as it is when the plane is loaded in.
I also turn off the Special Features button on the main panel, and the VRS switch on the overhead panel. I never press the Autopilot Cpld button. I may well be missing something, however. I still get the uncommanded roll, though.

Pat☺

Hi Pat,

Now I'm a bit puzzled what you mean by uncommanded roll and when this occurs.

Is this the VRS feature or not ??
During VRS, the V22 will roll uncontrollably (making a 360 degrees roll if at sufficient altitude, in about 6 seconds).
This only happens when nacelles > 83 degrees, AND descent rate is below -1500 ft/sec.
By default (at aircraft load) the VRS function is enabled, but if you click the SpecialFeatures button from On to OFF, the VRS switch is auto-set OFF too.
Note though, that after you click SpecialFeatures from ON to OFF, to can enable VRS again by clicking the VRS switch in the overhead panel again.
SO are you sure the VRS switch is OFF ??

If so:
- What do you observe exactly when you speak about uncommanded roll ??
- When does this happen (what's the nacelles angle) ?

Rob

[PhantomTweak]

Note though, that after you click SpecialFeatures from ON to OFF, to can enable VRS again by clicking the VRS switch in the overhead panel again.
SO are you sure the VRS switch is OFF ??

Well, my "normal" procedure, after the plane loads in from the Free Flight menu page, is to wait for the engines to stabilize, then, starting at the "top", go to the overhead panel and turn the VRS switch off. Then the lights on, etc, working down the overhead. After I get down to the main instrument panel, I click off the Special Features button. So, the VRS switch first, then the Special Features button. Nacelles to 75° for a very short take-off run. I wonder, could using both the overhead's VRS switch, AND the Special Features button be causing interference with each other somehow. Sometimes I use a nacelle angle of 90° for a vertical take off, then slowly decrease the angle to commence the flight.

- What do you observe exactly when you speak about uncommanded roll ??

Once I am flying, nacelles at any angle from 0 on up to 83°, which is the angle I use for matching speed to AI ships, or hovering with the nacelles anywhere from 84° up to 90°, even if I hold the stick perfectly still, or even hands off the stick, with the plane perfectly level and the VV centered, the plane will slowly, say something less than a degree/second, roll to port. The joystick is calibrated properly. Autopilot is not activated, and, since I usually fly somewhere below 500' AGL, won't activate anyway. Even if I start with plane rolled over to starboard, like in a turn, it will slowly roll to port, getting farther and farther over to port. I can correct it with a slight stick input, but after a second or two, it rolls over to port again. Very slowly, but it does roll.
Thus, "Uncommanded" roll. I'm in no way commanding this action.
It ACTS like I've seen other planes do if the weight and balance section isn't balanced. Like, if I make the pilot in the left seat of a C172 weigh 250lbs, and the co-pilot in the right seat 175lbs, just for example, and use no aileron trim, it will slowly roll to port, same way the MV-22 does. I have very carefully looked at the Weight and Balance section of the aircraft.cfg and it looks balanced, IE: No weight is "off-center". The fuel section did have an unbalanced set up, with just the "right tip" fuel tank entry, but as an experiment, I added a left tip entry, and cut the quantity in each tank in half, to maintain the plane's total fuel weight, and to balance both "tip" entry weights. It made no difference, so I returned the overall Fuel section back to default, or what it came as.

- When does this happen (what's the nacelles angle) ?

All angles, from 0 to 90°. I don't notice that the nacelle angle makes any difference.

I hope this helps find an answer of some sort. I feel like I'm either not doing something I should, or doing something I shouldn't. Setting the plane up after loading in, the way I fly, something. I'm certain, though, that with the expertise on this site, and for this plane in particular, and answer will be found. I have a feeling I will look like a fool once an answer is found. That's what usually happens

Have fun all!
Pat☺

[freded]

I can vouch for Pat's description of the 'uncommanded roll'. But I haven't researched in such detail as he did - only checking that my yoke was correctly centred.

I hope you clever guys can come up with the answer!

Mark

[seawing]

Hi Rob,

thanks for the latest update! The AA refueling works like a charme!

I have two issues, though.
First, I have not yet managed to get the MV-22 towed. I press the TOW button on the refuel gauge, it asks me to set the throttle to 1/3, which I do. It releases the parking brake, but then it doesn't move. Neither fore nor aft. Regardless of throttle or stick position. Am I doing something wrong here?

Second, and I don't know if this has been an issue anywhere else, the aircraft starts to shake and then to pitch and roll while shaking when I get into the hover below about 100 ft. Above that it seems to work normal. It appears to me as if it has some link to the ground effect. The shaking renders the aircraft nearly uncontrollable and can usually only be resolved in lowering the necelles, adding power and speeding up - which in turn doesn't really support a landing. Any ideas?

Best regards,

Seawing

[rcbarend]

Hi Pat, Mark (and Maryadi, if you read this)

NOW I understand what you mean with "uncommanded roll" .
Yes, I have the same problem, but I never noticed it.

Just describing it for normal flight (nacelles 0), flying with fuel only in the main Left/Right tanks, no wind and leveled flight at 5000 ft and 220 Knots IAS:
With no stick or rudder input, the V22 very slowly starts rolling (banking) to the left (1 degree per 5 sec or so).

But I notice this depends strongly on how your set your Flight Model Realism sliders.
I allways fly with all five Realism slider fully right (Realistic).
But if I set the Torque slider to Easy (fully left), the problem is gone on my PC (FSX-Accel)
Can you confirm this ???

WHY the Torque realisme setting influences this: I don't have a clue.
IMO it shouldn't, since the proprotors rotate in reverse direction, with equal engines thrust and equal proppitch for both engines.

Maybe Maryadi can explain this ....

Rob