Learning AD2K
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Thread: Learning AD2K

  1. #1

    Learning AD2K

    Hello folks,

    AD2000... I remember doing the tutorial mentioned in the link, the RFO tutorial, and laughing my head when I saw that "RFO" was Rubbish Flying Object!
    It was easy to understand and easy to do, and the building style surprisingly familiar - the aspect being similar to AF99.
    As I was building for FS2002, I remember I didnīt need the section on display priority - which is similar to but most probably more effective than AF99īs way of grouping and gluing to avoid bleeds. I suppose that would be the only difficult or "unknown" factor.

    Once I finish the Dornier Schnellbomber Iīll give the tutorial another go and see how it feels.
    It may be a nice way for us to team up and do something a little "new".

    OK, then
    Cheers for now,

  2. #2
    Hello folks,
    Iīve just installed both AD2000 and AD2002, and I was wondering which of the two would be the best for CFS1.
    I read a comment in AD2002 about some AD2000 items being obsolete because a number of 3D instructions for the FS98/2000 engine are no longer used in FS2002 and CFS2 - these must be the ones referring to glue and display priority for the prevention of bleeds.

    So, the obvious choice is AD2000.
    I could do the tutorial and post my progress on this thread.
    How about that?



  3. #3
    SOH Staff
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    State of Confusion..... -8GMT
    hello Stephan, as i recall, i upgraded to ad2k2.
    i'm sorry to say, i can't remember why,
    except, that it did work with cfs1.

    i also remember installing fs2000 or was it fs2002?
    i found it very convenient to look at the model's parts
    lay out before going through all the sequencing procedures.

    also, remember, save your work early and often.
    i do remember the aggravation of having a crash
    or something happen and loosing hours of work.

    if you decide to follow the ad2k tutorial,
    i would suggest starting a new thread.
    just to keep things organized.
    good luck and have fun.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  4. #4
    Hello Smilo,
    Thanks indeed for your indications!

    Iīve had a go at the AD2000 RFO tutorial, and the first thing I noticed was that special care must be taken defining the paths for the program, the project and the aircraft. A silly mistake here also means it wonīt compile.

    Well, Iīm finding it a bit tedious, (which I donīt remember from when I did the AD2k2 RFO years ago), mostly because there are many details that must be user-defined, which are not automatically assigned as in AF99. This is obviously because there are many more possibilities. A silly mistake results in a compilation error - Iīve just finished the canopy and defined the textures for the pilot and it wonīt compile, and now I have to find where I goofed up.

    Just before that step, however, there was a success of a kind. I had managed to actually see my khakhi-green oblong in CFS1: It gave a slow little bounce and started moving after firing up the engine, and it actually flew!!

    I seem to remember that the AD2k2 tutorial for the RFO was considerably easier. Now, if you say that you had already initially upgraded to AD2k2 and that this worked for CFS1, then I think Iīll switch over to that instead of keeping on with AD2000.

    I tried having a go at AD2k, but the
    file "AD2k2.dat" is missing and it wonīt compile, so itīs a no-go here Iīm afraid.

    2nd. Update:
    Fortunately I remembered an old hard disk and my old AD2k2 installation WITH AD2k2.dat (!!) on it, so I can go on qith my trials. If these go OK, Iīll open a new thread for my experiences with the AD2k2 "Rubbish Flying Object" (LOL) tutorial.

    Last edited by aleatorylamp; February 10th, 2017 at 08:31.

  5. #5
    SOH Staff
    Join Date
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    State of Confusion..... -8GMT
    so much has been forgotten,
    but, i vaguely remember the compiling issues,
    if things aren't done just so.
    i believe that's why i said, backup, backup, backup.
    i think i finally learned to save my work
    each and every time before compiling...just in case.

    earlier this morning, i was searching
    an old machine for gauges.
    while looking, i found some ad2k stuff.
    there was also an install of fs2000
    that i used to check the visuals.
    there was even an unfinished ad2k project.

    i think it might be time to start an ad2k thread.

    ps, did i tell you, it's possible to import af99 parts?
    it's true...a handy feature if you're more comfortable
    constructing with af99.
    just remember, parts only, no components or structures.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  6. #6
    Hello Smilo,
    I saved at every successful step, and got a wireframe cube made with triangles, but now Iīm having serious problems with the AD2k2 Model Editor Code - It just wonīt accept anything and keeps hanging.
    I canīt even get far enough to have anything to compile.
    Possibly AD2k2 doesnīt like modern computers.

    Itīs funny though, that the old AD2000 Model Code Editor works, although the coding style is rather different.
    Consequently I think Iīm landed with the old AD2000, but at least it seems to function, which is the main thing!

    That bit on importing individual parts from AF99 could come in handy! Anyway, Iīll continue poking around in it these days, but only intermittently, because I want to finish the Do-17 first!


  7. #7
    SOH Staff
    Join Date
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    State of Confusion..... -8GMT
    well, as the saying goes,
    if it don't work,
    don't use it.
    (...or did i make that up?)

    i've been poking around my old xp
    flight sim/developing machine
    for most of the day...kinda fun.
    mainly, i've been searching for gauges,
    but, have also been running cfs1.

    i also looked at my ad2k folder.
    funny thing is, i see no ad2k2.
    just ad2000.25 ...the upgrade.
    everything i've ever done is there.
    i'd say, don't worry about ad2k2
    and go with the upgrade.

    side bar;
    i can see why i stepped back.
    i can easily spend hours, all day,
    messing with this stuff.

    of course, i have been known to be
    a wee bit obsessive compulsive
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  8. #8
    Hello Smilo,
    OK, that Upgrade is the same one that works for me. It does seem the correct one because it makes you choose to compile for FS98/CFS or FS2000/CFS2 just before compiling, whereas AD2k2 needs FS2002 which I havenīt installed, so AD2k2.dat gives a compilation error.

    So, AD2000 it is!!, and meanwhile, I have managed to progress to an oblong containing the pilotīs textured head and a transparent canopy with windscreen, but the front bulkhead is still missing, although I did take out that panel from the Desk sub-assembly.

    A bit tedious, I must admit.
    Apart from easily getting lost amongs all the sub-assemblies, some of the simplest steps in the Model Editor Code are not explained, e.g. mouse-click sequence to point instructions to sub-assemblies. Somehow I managed, though, and seem to be progressing, but Iīm still not sure if I want to use this as a building program. However, I have resolved to finish the Rubbish Flying Object with wings, tail empenage, and also animated prop and wheel!

    Incidentally, there is another tutorial in the folder called "tuto98" - a very detailed one specifically for FS98 including the sequencing of parts to prevent bleeds - there is what seems to be a PBY Catalina image on the title page, but covers a simple plane and gives no screenshots.

    Anyway, cheers,
    Last edited by aleatorylamp; February 10th, 2017 at 23:27.

  9. #9
    SOH Staff
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    State of Confusion..... -8GMT
    ..."gives a compilation error" right!
    because there is no fs2002/aircraft/rubbish/model folder
    to send the compilation to....of course. why not?

    about the missing bulkhead,
    i'd bet it's facing the wrong way,
    so, you're looking through it.
    compile just the bulkhead,
    then look for it in chase view
    from different angles...is it there?
    try flipping the bulkhead, then, compiling.
    bet it will be there.

    yes, sequencing is tedious, but, it can be done.
    not to toot my own horn, but, look at the ar196.
    especially the float struts...it was a bitch,
    but, in the end, i got it. perseverance furthers
    as i recall, i left in a bleed or two in the model,
    as a challenge for folks to find...just for fun.
    the thing is, if you're patient,
    very complex models can be built.
    a model within a model, as it were.
    for example a wing, with a complex nacelle and gear,
    built as a separate model, then, that model,
    joined to a complex fuselage model.
    but, that's down the road...just a teaser.
    back to the rubbish.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  10. #10
    Hello Smilo,
    Yes, thanks. I found the bulkhead it and how to flip it!

    Then I did the tail, but although I duplicated the panels for the stabilizers and flipped the duplicated ones, they still didnīt show up seen from the top - until I changed their colour and saw that the model hadnīt changed - so I realized I had to compile the main model again, apart from having newly compiled the tail section thatīs built and called separately... Oh dear! Itīs working OK now, though.

    The fact that you actually managed to produce that masterpiece of your ar196 with such a high degree of complication and perfection, with this very tedious building program, is truly amazing!

    My patience is not enough - Production is so slow because there are so many small, detailed steps to achieve anything, that it is too taxing on my nerves - I can barely manage with AF99...

    I just loaded the other tutorial plane called "Ugly100" - why does the author name his creations so deprecatingly? - the "Rubbish Flying Object" is a bit reminiscent of the Pou-du-Ciel (Sky Flea) and he could have called it "Gnat" or something, and the "Ugly100" is not ugly at all - a Mustang/Spitfire cross with simple but nice lines could be called "Firebird" or suchlike. Anyway, just to illustrate, here are two screenshots.

    Ugly100 shows up very nicely thanks to the lengthy but excellent bleed-avoiding code written in the tutorial-model, whereas RFO lacks it, of course. Patience, patience and patience for all that code indeed!!


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ugly100.jpg   RFO.jpg  
    Last edited by aleatorylamp; February 11th, 2017 at 07:12.

  11. #11
    SOH Staff
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    State of Confusion..... -8GMT
    first, i have to thank you, Stephan,
    for the 196 compliment.
    as i said before,
    i didn't want to toot my own horn,
    or, was i fishing for compliments.
    i was just trying to point out
    what can be accomplished
    with patience and perseverance.

    i have no clue why the author
    used degrading names for his examples.
    it could be, knowing what can be accomplished
    with ad2k, that's how he saw them.

    i was just on my old machine,
    searching for an old gauge layout image.
    i stumbled upon several folders
    of ad2k screen shots and some text doc
    attempts at explaining how to do stuff.
    there are even shots of constructing the ugly100.
    apparently, i found it easier to take screen shots,
    than to try to write things down.
    it would also seem that i documented
    the hell out of the ar196 build process
    with screen shots of both the model
    and what was done within ad2k.

    sheesh...me thinks i've opened a can o worms.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  12. #12
    Hello Smilo,
    Sometime things are a bit daunting when it turns out itīs a can of worms.
    But, not to worry, for the time being itīs just my curiosity.

    The thing I want to do now (intermittently with the Do-17...) is to finish the RFO structure with prop and wheel animations, and add a light beam, as THIS IS where the principle of avoiding bleeds in AD2000 is explained in the RFO tutorial.

    Then, with that in mind, it will be easier to understand the "anti-bleed" code used in Ugly100, and apply one in the RFO, to learn. Once that is done, I can decide if I like AD2000 or not!!


  13. #13
    SOH Staff
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    State of Confusion..... -8GMT
    as with anything else,
    complexity seems to diminish with experience.

    i've got to say, though,
    as i watched you struggle
    with af99 parts limitations
    and bleed issues on the Do17,
    i kept thinking,
    this wouldn't be happening with ad2k.
    of course, i wasn't considering
    the learning curve, just the results.

    as always, it's your call.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  14. #14
    Hello Smilo,
    Yes, if itīs not one complication itīs another - no rest for the wicked!!

    Iīve just discovered a comment in the Landing Lights chapter of the RFO tutorial: It uses the Z buffer, which was implemented AFTER FS98/CFS1, so the way the lights are done here does not work.
    No lights then, but what the heck.

    So, Iīll move on to the prop and wheel animations.
    I can see an obvious sequencing in the Model Editor Code from here on in the RFO tutorial text, and screenshots show no bleeds, so the answer to the no-bleed sequencing must be THERE! For the moment, there are terrible bleeds everyehwere on my RFO.

    BTW: All this exchange on RFO and Ugly100 tutorials is most probably off topic with this thread.
    Perhaps it would be best to do as you said yesterday, and move all this to a new thread,
    as of Post #18.
    How would you feel about that?


  15. #15
    SOH Staff
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    State of Confusion..... -8GMT
    aaah, z buffering.....one of my favorite subjects.
    it would make fs98 and cfs1 model building
    so much easier. right?
    but, then again, if fs98 and cfs1 had it,
    they would almost be fs2000 and cfs2.
    duh...i'm soo smart.

    as you said,
    "the no-bleed sequencing must be THERE!"
    it is there...figuring it out is the learning curve.

    you are absolutely correct.
    we are way off topic and a dedicated thread
    should be the order of the day.
    i'll take care of it, right now.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  16. #16
    Hello Smilo,
    Your are so helpful.
    Even though AD2000 is so tedious to learn, it is a challenge though.
    Maybe itīs because the brain likes to learn...

  17. #17
    SOH Staff
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    State of Confusion..... -8GMT
    thank you, Stephan.
    i heartily subscribe to the SOH Credo,
    Let Being Helpful Be More Important Than Being Right!
    they've been words to live by
    since the day, back in 2003,
    a friend helped me join the outhouse
    after a long struggle with an unacceptable email address.

    as i now recall, the challenge
    was my main motivation with ad2k.
    i'll be damned if i'll let it beat me.
    then, when i saw the results,

    side note;
    i always come directly to the cfs1 forum
    and never peruse the other SOH forums.
    but, today, i went out looking
    for the exact wording of the SOH Credo.
    while out there, i noticed on the home page,
    that Ron "Ickie" Larson, the SOH Senior Admin,
    had passed away, back on December 23, 2016.
    Ron was the guy who kept this place running.
    he was on constant alert for any and all security,
    server and other issues that might harm SOH.
    i was fortunate enough to be able to spend a day
    with Ron a few years ago during one of my florida trips.
    i'll tell you, right now, Ron was a loner, a weird duck,
    but, honestly, aren't we all?
    Rest In Piece, Ron
    thank you for your service.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  18. #18
    Hello Smilo,
    I almost only look directly into the CFS1 forum too, but occasionally I enter throught the home "title" page and I saw the notice on "Ickie" Larson a few days ago, presumed he must have been someone important in SOH, but didnīt really know who he was. Now I do! Yes, RIP, Ron Larson.

    A very fitting title for this thread. Letīs see if we can learn.
    I looked up Z buffering, and, as everybody knows and now so do I, in post FS98/CFS1 simulators, itīs exactly what substitutes all our glueing and sequencing efforts!

    Well, well... we could argue Z Buffering takes away the spice of life! I bet Ivan would agree.

    Anyway, I think Iīll make the RFO propeller a bit bigger and the nose a bit pointed, and then Iīll change the name to Sky Dog or Chien du Ciel... and put a big cannon in the nose!


  19. #19
    SOH Staff
    Join Date
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    State of Confusion..... -8GMT
    z buffering is precisely why i had a fs2000 install
    and sent the compiles there during the build stage.
    basically, i could look at the model without bleeds
    and see how the parts came together.
    of course, when it came to sequencing,
    i would compile to cfs1.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  20. #20
    Hi Guys,

    I just saw this thread a couple hours ago.
    Where can I find these tutorials? I have had AD2000 installed for a long time but have never figured out where to start.
    Is it feasible to run this on my laptop without any flight simulator installation at all?
    I still do not have a working development machine yet. The idea of a flat screen monitor may not work as well as I thought.
    I probably will need to find yet another CRT.
    I have spares but won't be doing much until I can move a few things around to see what is left of my computer parts after the room was cleared out.

    - Ivan.

  21. #21
    SOH Staff
    Join Date
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    State of Confusion..... -8GMT
    hello Ivan,
    it is my understanding
    that ad2k needs fs98, cfs1, fs2000 or cfs2
    to be installed to provide a path for the compiled model.
    obviously, one of the sims will provide a viewing platform.
    i am curious what would happen
    if a series of folder were created
    to simulate a flight sim path.
    of course, as i said above,
    without a sim install,
    the model can not be seen.

    as for your flat screen issue,
    i'm wondering if the wide screen is the problem.
    as you know, wide screens create oval gauges.
    which are annoying.
    gauges can be reconfigured for wide screen
    in the panel.cfg, but it is an arduous process.

    just for fun, i did a little experiment today.
    instead of using cfs full screen mode, (Alt+Enter)
    i dragged the edges of the minimized view
    to fill my 46" wide screen. naturally, the gauges were oval.
    just for the heck of it, i dragged one edge in
    until the gauges were round.
    true, there is a gap on the edge,
    exposing the desktop,
    but the gauges are round.
    sometimes the magic works.
    sometimes it doesn't.

  22. #22
    Hello Ivan,
    I hope you can find a good way to get your development machine back in form!

    Re. your question on the tutorials:
    NoDice posted this recently on the other thread "New Aeroplanes in CFS Downloads"
    >And we do have a tutorial on AD2000 Here:

    Enjoy... hopefully!

  23. #23
    Not really sure,
    I am an FSDS user and busy with my Vietnam Project for CFS2...BUT

    Parts of these may help:

    AF99 Plugins 7 plugins for AF99 by various authors, a must have ***
    AF99 serv pk1 Add-on Service pack for AF99 by Abacus ****
    AFX PACK 4 pack AFX Files for AF99 and AD2000 by John Cooper
    Hurricane, F4U-1d, B17F and a Spitfire ****
    AFX files 2 pack AFX for AF99 and AD2000. A Ju87 and Lysander, go for it.

    AD2000 for CFS1 and FS2000
    Create and distribute your own aircraft, this is the only Freeware
    aircraft creation software that really works, includes a complete
    tutorial, password is FREE-WARE ****
    Click image to download****also see the tutorials section
    see support forums below...
    AD2002 for CFS2 ,FS2000,2002
    Create and distribute your own aircraft, this is the only Freeware
    aircraft creation software that really works, includes a complete
    tutorial, password is FREE-WARE ****
    Many of the planes on this site have been created using this.
    Click image to download**** also see ACT Data Fix below.
    see support forums below...
    ACT data FIX For AD2002 above, fixes compiling problems. By ACT
    "Laissez les bon temps rouler"

  24. #24
    Thanks Aleatorylamp,

    I will pursue that when I have finished taking care of a few unrelated but nagging problems.
    I had seen that post but didn't really process it.... Typical.

    Hello No Dice,

    You would not happen to have the source for a FS98 RPM Gauge, would you?
    I need something to look at to get an idea of the Tokens I need to use.
    The problem is that I KNOW I found something useful a couple years ago because my notes tell me so, but never noted it down as to where I found it because I wasn't working on gauges at the time..... Sheesh!

    - Ivan.

  25. #25
    Hello NoDice, and thanks very much for the links!

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