Learning AD2K

[aleatorylamp]

Hello folks,

AD2000... I remember doing the tutorial mentioned in the link, the RFO tutorial, and laughing my head when I saw that "RFO" was Rubbish Flying Object!
It was easy to understand and easy to do, and the building style surprisingly familiar - the aspect being similar to AF99.
As I was building for FS2002, I remember I didn´t need the section on display priority - which is similar to but most probably more effective than AF99´s way of grouping and gluing to avoid bleeds. I suppose that would be the only difficult or "unknown" factor.

Once I finish the Dornier Schnellbomber I´ll give the tutorial another go and see how it feels.
It may be a nice way for us to team up and do something a little "new".

OK, then
Cheers for now,
Aleatorylamp.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello folks,
I´ve just installed both AD2000 and AD2002, and I was wondering which of the two would be the best for CFS1.
I read a comment in AD2002 about some AD2000 items being obsolete because a number of 3D instructions for the FS98/2000 engine are no longer used in FS2002 and CFS2 - these must be the ones referring to glue and display priority for the prevention of bleeds.

So, the obvious choice is AD2000. I could do the tutorial and post my progress on this thread.
How about that?

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

hello Stephan, as i recall, i upgraded to ad2k2.
i'm sorry to say, i can't remember why,
except, that it did work with cfs1.

i also remember installing fs2000 or was it fs2002?
i found it very convenient to look at the model's parts
lay out before going through all the sequencing procedures.

also, remember, save your work early and often.
i do remember the aggravation of having a crash
or something happen and loosing hours of work.

if you decide to follow the ad2k tutorial,
i would suggest starting a new thread.
just to keep things organized.
good luck and have fun.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
As yet, the prop-blur isn´t on yet, and neither is the prop animation nor the bleed-preventing sequencing.

But... One can see the altered nose. I added a sub-assembly with another square-cross-sectioned dice, and I edited the faces to slant all sides inwards toward the front, the top slant shallower than the bottom one - like an uneven truncated pyramid on its side.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

let's see...
when you assemble this beastie,
sequence first, the starboard wing and horizontal stabilizer,
then, the fore and aft fuselage,
finally, the port wing and horiz stabilizer.
everything will look correct from the port side view, right?
isn't this were jump lanes come in?
basically, reversing the assembly sequencing,
so it looks correct from the starboard view.
of course, then, there's the forward and aft views to jump plane.

it's been such a long time...
am i on the right track?

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
The Blades no longer bleed through the spinner seen from the front, but seen from behind, the prop-spinner still bleeds through the body. Actually the Body is a separate sub-assy and the plane does compile, so I don´t really know what´s wrong.

Anyway, what I´ve decided to do before continuing with the CubeFly, is to do the Ugly100 Tutorial (changing the name to Pony, and the red to blue), and at the moment I am doing the tail section.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Thanks indeed for your indications!

I´ve had a go at the AD2000 RFO tutorial, and the first thing I noticed was that special care must be taken defining the paths for the program, the project and the aircraft. A silly mistake here also means it won´t compile.

Well, I´m finding it a bit tedious, (which I don´t remember from when I did the AD2k2 RFO years ago), mostly because there are many details that must be user-defined, which are not automatically assigned as in AF99. This is obviously because there are many more possibilities. A silly mistake results in a compilation error - I´ve just finished the canopy and defined the textures for the pilot and it won´t compile, and now I have to find where I goofed up.

Just before that step, however, there was a success of a kind. I had managed to actually see my khakhi-green oblong in CFS1: It gave a slow little bounce and started moving after firing up the engine, and it actually flew!!

I seem to remember that the AD2k2 tutorial for the RFO was considerably easier. Now, if you say that you had already initially upgraded to AD2k2 and that this worked for CFS1, then I think I´ll switch over to that instead of keeping on with AD2000.

Update:
I tried having a go at AD2k, but the file "AD2k2.dat" is missing and it won´t compile, so it´s a no-go here I´m afraid.

2nd. Update:
Fortunately I remembered an old hard disk and my old AD2k2 installation WITH AD2k2.dat (!!) on it, so I can go on qith my trials. If these go OK, I´ll open a new thread for my experiences with the AD2k2 "Rubbish Flying Object" (LOL) tutorial.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

so much has been forgotten,
but, i vaguely remember the compiling issues,
if things aren't done just so.
i believe that's why i said, backup, backup, backup.
i think i finally learned to save my work
each and every time before compiling...just in case.

earlier this morning, i was searching
an old machine for gauges.
while looking, i found some ad2k stuff.
there was also an install of fs2000
that i used to check the visuals.
there was even an unfinished ad2k project.

i think it might be time to start an ad2k thread.

ps, did i tell you, it's possible to import af99 parts?
it's true...a handy feature if you're more comfortable
constructing with af99.
just remember, parts only, no components or structures.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Sheesh! like Ivan would say... a sequence for every viewing direction whenever a string of parts is involved...
Sounds very logical, I suppose, and then, from above (pilot´s head, canopy and such) and below (landing gear struts, fairings and wheels and the under-wing we have yet 2 more - a total of 6 sequences.
I don´t know what I´ve let myself in for!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

in a word...tedium.

although, i'm not sure if it's all that bad.
again, as i recall, there is a copy/paste feature
that is a very helpful time saver.
remember, backup, backup, backup.
the last thing you want is to loose everything
because of a compilation error or some such.
been there, done that...more than once.

as i said before, it gets easier as you go along.
granted, it requires a certain anal retentive,
excessive compulsive personality,
but, the reward is well worth the effort.
a high quality, complex model with no bleeds.
who here could ask for more?

of course, after building one,
there's always the milo option,
walk off into the wilderness,
never to build again.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Thanks for your offer! Here´s the CubeFly .zip!
I haven´t really moved on, I´m just doing the other Tutorial 98 to figure out the rest of the sequencing for the CubeFly.
The screenshot shows the beautifully bleedfree spinner, prop and body (seen from the front).

The "CubeFly V0.zip" (version zero) contains one directory called "CubeFly" which is the aircraft for CFS1, and one called "CubeFly Ad2k Source", to be moved into the main AD2k directory, renamed as "CubeFly", to work with.
It also contains the Help Files for direct access through Ad2k... I didn´t take them out.

So, let´s see if it can be mended! Thanks a lot. I hope you will enjoy it!

At least it is all quite intriguing and fun, apart from a "little" frustration now and then. ...But nobody said it would be easy, huh?

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
I saved at every successful step, and got a wireframe cube made with triangles, but now I´m having serious problems with the AD2k2 Model Editor Code - It just won´t accept anything and keeps hanging.
I can´t even get far enough to have anything to compile.
Possibly AD2k2 doesn´t like modern computers.

It´s funny though, that the old AD2000 Model Code Editor works, although the coding style is rather different.
Consequently I think I´m landed with the old AD2000, but at least it seems to function, which is the main thing!

That bit on importing individual parts from AF99 could come in handy! Anyway, I´ll continue poking around in it these days, but only intermittently, because I want to finish the Do-17 first!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

well, as the saying goes,
if it don't work,
don't use it.
(...or did i make that up?)

i've been poking around my old xp
flight sim/developing machine
for most of the day...kinda fun.
mainly, i've been searching for gauges,
but, have also been running cfs1.

i also looked at my ad2k folder.
funny thing is, i see no ad2k2.
just ad2000.25 ...the upgrade.
everything i've ever done is there.
i'd say, don't worry about ad2k2
and go with the upgrade.

side bar;
i can see why i stepped back.
i can easily spend hours, all day,
messing with this stuff.

of course, i have been known to be
a wee bit obsessive compulsive

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Ha ha! I wasn´t complaining - thanks for your comment. Yes, I´ve got into the habit of saving 2 or 3 previous steps with backups to avoid problems.
I didn´t know the paste option, and also, that the vertices in a polygon chain are mouseable.
Anyway, it´s getting to be fun, which is most important.
Today I´ll probably start with the sequencing.
Cheers, and many thanks for your helpful comments!
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
OK, that Upgrade is the same one that works for me. It does seem the correct one because it makes you choose to compile for FS98/CFS or FS2000/CFS2 just before compiling, whereas AD2k2 needs FS2002 which I haven´t installed, so AD2k2.dat gives a compilation error.

So, AD2000 it is!!, and meanwhile, I have managed to progress to an oblong containing the pilot´s textured head and a transparent canopy with windscreen, but the front bulkhead is still missing, although I did take out that panel from the Desk sub-assembly.

A bit tedious, I must admit. Apart from easily getting lost amongs all the sub-assemblies, some of the simplest steps in the Model Editor Code are not explained, e.g. mouse-click sequence to point instructions to sub-assemblies. Somehow I managed, though, and seem to be progressing, but I´m still not sure if I want to use this as a building program. However, I have resolved to finish the Rubbish Flying Object with wings, tail empenage, and also animated prop and wheel!

Incidentally, there is another tutorial in the folder called "tuto98" - a very detailed one specifically for FS98 including the sequencing of parts to prevent bleeds - there is what seems to be a PBY Catalina image on the title page, but covers a simple plane and gives no screenshots.

Anyway, cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
I´m running into trouble with the propeller turning axis.
The tutorial uses a null vector, but it is on the 0,0,0 centreline, and my propeller is 1.5 upwards.

A null vector for the propeller axis makes the prop rotate off centre, and no matter what I enter into the propeller axis vector, I cannot correct it. It always puts it to one side and too low, and when I change it, it never puts it where I need, even if I define the 2 points of the vector.

I´m trying to define a straight line vector for the centre of the propeller, which is at 14.700 forwards, 1.500 up and 0.000 sideways.

Anyway, for the moment I´ve bent the nose and moved the propeller down so that it accepts the null vector, and it´s turning around the 0,0,0 axis.ç

So the question is, whether the propeller rotation needs an instruction different from RUN PROP when the axis is not on the 0,0,0 aircraft line. I tried the Translate/Rotate instruction, but it doesn´t shoe the prop animation.

I hope all this questioining is not too tedious for you.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

no, the questions are not tedious.
i just woke up and haven't had my coffee, yet.
sorry, i'm drawing a total blank.

i guess i'm going to have to dig out
196 construction screen shots, aren't i?
i wonder if the answer is there?

i have some errands to run today,
so, i might not get to it until later this afternoon.


off topic;
yesterday, i played around with a new layout
for the do17 nose/bomb aimer view.
it's very basic, but, it's a start.
i've never done one from scratch before.

coffeeee.......


hang on...
why does building a 0,0,0 and vectoring ring a bell?

[aleatorylamp]

Thanks, Smilo, I´m off to bed... it´s past midnight!
Good night!
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

sleep well

[smilo]

other than the prop disk aft view being black,
the prop, spinner and forward fuselage
appear to line up visually, both from the fore and aft views.
am currently trying to figure out
why the prop disk aft view is black.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Can´t sleep at the moment...
The failure to compile may be file corruption while sending? I´ll try and e-mail the CubeFly to you.

Yes, I understand that it´s full of bleeds because there is only one sequence written inside the prop/spinner, and Fore-Body/Prop works with no bleeds because the prop is first on the main code page listing.

Regarding the Pony textures distortion on the wings: I´d got mixed up with defining top and side! Silly - so that went well.

On the rudder and the head there´s parts of the texture that shouldn´t be on though, even though I selected the correct options on the bitmaps. Perhaps I can adjust the texture support template better.

Here´s a screenshot of the as yet noseless Pony. There´s a glitch to be seen in the aft cabin floor too - template tie problem!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

no need to send the cubefly 3dm,
unless, you want practice with seals and jump planes.
speaking of which, that's what i've been doing.
have currently done, pilot and canopy to dice.
then, left and right wings to dice.
the prop/spinner group should be easy.

no, i've only added the prop animation.
actually, you did.
haven't done the gear or ailerons, yet.

about your troublesome floor panel,
have you considered manually adding it,
instead of using the template tie process?

ps...your model is looking very good.

[smilo]

..."gives a compilation error" right!
because there is no fs2002/aircraft/rubbish/model folder
to send the compilation to....of course. why not?

about the missing bulkhead,
i'd bet it's facing the wrong way,
so, you're looking through it.
compile just the bulkhead,
then look for it in chase view
from different angles...is it there?
try flipping the bulkhead, then, compiling.
bet it will be there.

yes, sequencing is tedious, but, it can be done.
not to toot my own horn, but, look at the ar196.
especially the float struts...it was a bitch,
but, in the end, i got it. perseverance furthers
as i recall, i left in a bleed or two in the model,
as a challenge for folks to find...just for fun.
the thing is, if you're patient,
very complex models can be built.
a model within a model, as it were.
for example a wing, with a complex nacelle and gear,
built as a separate model, then, that model,
joined to a complex fuselage model.
but, that's down the road...just a teaser.
back to the rubbish.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Yes, thanks. I found the bulkhead it and how to flip it!

Then I did the tail, but although I duplicated the panels for the stabilizers and flipped the duplicated ones, they still didn´t show up seen from the top - until I changed their colour and saw that the model hadn´t changed - so I realized I had to compile the main model again, apart from having newly compiled the tail section that´s built and called separately... Oh dear! It´s working OK now, though.

The fact that you actually managed to produce that masterpiece of your ar196 with such a high degree of complication and perfection, with this very tedious building program, is truly amazing!

My patience is not enough - Production is so slow because there are so many small, detailed steps to achieve anything, that it is too taxing on my nerves - I can barely manage with AF99...

I just loaded the other tutorial plane called "Ugly100" - why does the author name his creations so deprecatingly? - the "Rubbish Flying Object" is a bit reminiscent of the Pou-du-Ciel (Sky Flea) and he could have called it "Gnat" or something, and the "Ugly100" is not ugly at all - a Mustang/Spitfire cross with simple but nice lines could be called "Firebird" or suchlike. Anyway, just to illustrate, here are two screenshots.

Ugly100 shows up very nicely thanks to the lengthy but excellent bleed-avoiding code written in the tutorial-model, whereas RFO lacks it, of course. Patience, patience and patience for all that code indeed!!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

first, i have to thank you, Stephan,
for the 196 compliment.
as i said before,
i didn't want to toot my own horn,
or, was i fishing for compliments.
i was just trying to point out
what can be accomplished
with patience and perseverance.

i have no clue why the author
used degrading names for his examples.
it could be, knowing what can be accomplished
with ad2k, that's how he saw them.

i was just on my old machine,
searching for an old gauge layout image.
i stumbled upon several folders
of ad2k screen shots and some text doc
attempts at explaining how to do stuff.
there are even shots of constructing the ugly100.
apparently, i found it easier to take screen shots,
than to try to write things down.
it would also seem that i documented
the hell out of the ar196 build process
with screen shots of both the model
and what was done within ad2k.

sheesh...me thinks i've opened a can o worms.