without reading the tutorial entry,
my best guess would be,
the prop, spinner, gearbox are being built at y=0,
then, are moved to their proper model position
using a vector instruction.
believe it or not, this is a good way of doing it.
the trick is not having both show in the model.
RETURN is a perfect barrier.
this is how i did the 196 prop/spinner.
if i'm not mistaken, the process
can be seen in the related 3DM
i posted a week or two ago.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
as promised, but, a little late,
the completed cubefly 3DM file.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
Hello Smilo,
Thanks for the new CubeFly!
Update:
I quickly made a completely new working and cfs aircraft directory, compiled the Tail and Compiled your model.
It works excellently!!!
I was thinking of making an opening and closing gear-door in the fuselage and making the gear disappear when retracted, instead of moving the gear out...
Iīll look into the sequencing after the morning class today.
Re. Prop at y=0:
Thank you for your patient explanation!
I thought once again it was a glitch, and I still to see if the vector to move it into position is correct.
Iīll have a look again into your 196 prop sequence, thanks - I knew too little to understand anything.
I have a busy morning today with other things too and have to dash off early...
No rest for the wicked, is there?
Cheers, and thank you so much again!
Aleatorylamp
Last edited by aleatorylamp; February 22nd, 2017 at 23:51.
Hello Smilo,
You have certainly been busy inserting sequencing lines, turning it into a whole new kettle of fish!
I noticed one little bug on the left wheel:
Dependiong on the viewing angle, the texture is correct, or not: It sometimes gets the portion of the "Wing" bitmap corresponding to the right wing, and switches twice. Once to the division vetween the upper and lower half of the wing bitmap, and once again further out.
The right wheel, however, is OK. Please see the attached screenshot.
Maybe, to put this right, it will be better to make left and right wings have their own, separate bitmaps?
Perhaps it will also be easier to discover whatīs wrong this way?
Iīm trying to follow the sequence and see where a jump ommits the texturing and keeps the wing one, perhaps offsetting it by 90 degrees, but I havenīt been successful yet.
Cheers, and sorry to bother you, but thanks in advance,
Aleatorylamp
i just woke up and no coffee, yet.
so am still a little groggy.
yes, i noticed the left wheel texture issue.
since i was only interested in sequencing,
i let it go.
my guess would be, there is an issue
with the texture call in the left gear sub assembly.
it's most likely my fault.
i changed the parts order
because i had to add a jump plane
to stop gear assembly bleeds.
the right gear is okay,
so compare both left and right sub assemblies.
i'm sure you will find my error.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
Hello Smilo,
I looked up the time difference between your place and mine, and itīs 8 hours.
Feeding the cats and making breakfast makes me have to get up foat 6.30!!
Youīre luckier than me. Then I had to laugh, under the time-difference it
said: Travel time to (by car) : 88 hours 55 mins ... I suppose I could try...
Anyway, to the texture bug:
OK! A treasure hunt... When I got in from class this morning I had a short while to, like you said, compare left and right subassemblies, but not enough, as making lunch and another class got in between.
Busy, busy ..., so Iīll try again later tonight and print out some screenshots to make it easier.
Thereīs no other way to print out anything from Ad2k, is there?
More later,
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
funny you should mention,
88+ hours by driving.
for the past week or so,
i've been wondering what it's like
on the canary islands.
not that i would attempt to drive.
if one could, i guarantee,
it would take much longer than 4 days.
i am not aware of being able
to print out ad2k entries.
except, the help files.
hang on, i'll post a couple screen shots
of the right and left gear assemblies.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
okay, here they are;
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
Hello Smilo,
Yes! ...and then the internet page even says it is 5525 miles "only"!! ...only about one fifth of the Planetīs circumference...
Well, the Canary Islands are very different one from another, depending on their altitude - i.e. their ability to stop the clouds driven by the trade winds. Islands with mountains have lush vegetation - on higher ground thereīs pine forests, and laurel, heath and miur forests, upto the tree line, and then dersertic, volcanic, dramatic landscape further up if the island is higher, with a few volcanos (our big one in Tenerife has snow in the winter), none of which is extinct. Two islands, La Gomera and La Palma (with a new volcano since 1972), are almost completely green.
On the coast there can be desert, some beaches or cliffs, or towns. No rivers, but when it rains there are streams, and only one little group of small lagoons in the north, apart from the puddles when it rains.... The lower Islands have more desert and less forest, and thereīs two islands, Lanzarote and Fuerteventura, with hardly any trees and with a Martian landscape which is fascinating, but you start craving for some green after a week. Then thereīs one tiny one where cars are prohibited, roads arenīt asphalted and there are only a few houses and about 100 people living there. No trees either.
You can drive around Tenerife, itīs got some winding roads and it used to take about 4 hours before the new straight motorways (highway in American?) with tunnels and bridges were built, and now I suppose it will take about 3 hours, but I havenīt bothered.
There are asphalt roads, and traffic jams in the 2 or 3 capital cities, and contrary to the popular belief of people on the Spanish Mainland, we do not wear grass skirts (honestly, some think we do!). That must be because the Islands are not too far off the African Coast.
Anyway... Thanks for the screenshots! Saved me the trouble!
Letīs see if I can find the bug! Iīll tell you tomorrow.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
found it!!!
i want to see what you find.
heading into town.
won't be back for several hours.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
Hello Smilo,
Ha!! Me too! Hereīs a few screenshots.
Striking, how absolutely bleedfree the model is, indeed!
Just got up for a snack and some water,
and I thought, letīs look again!
Now itīs back to sleep.
For a start, I think I now feel like making the wheels 3D,
and having the gear disappear when retracted.
Shouldnīt be too difficult.
Next will be animating the movement, and later possibly a hole
in the sides, with inner panels and a hinged door.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
you got it...perfect.
if i might recommend,
forget about the cube gear.
the cube was merely a test bed
for learning seal and texture mapping,
jump plane sequencing
and a little animation.
it's time to move on to the pony
and beyond.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
Hello Smilo,
OK, yes, stay dynamic, move on! ...but perhaps only the disappearing gear
when retracted, as it is not exactly the Rubbish Flying Object, but a little nicer.
I think I can get it easily with the Range instruction.
If the Prop-blade/Disk animation has a Range instruction set at 0,60 for the blades
to stay visible and make the disk appear at a given moment, then the gear could
be 0,99 inserted somewhere near Jump Gear, or 99,0. Iīll see.
On the pony Range is at 228,0 just after Jump Gear, and the gear disappears a bit
too soon for my liking, but itīs a guide.
P.S. Range is only of use for the Pony, because the CubeFly uses L/R Gear Bank
and Trans/Rot, so it will be more difficult to figure out. Well...
Then, in a nested sequence, with different axis vector, wheels can be made to turn,
depending on the Model Editor/Settings/ Ref.speed entry. As itīs just another part
of the aircraft to be displayed, this must be the way to do it.
...Once I finish learning exactly how to nest sequences, of course...
Note: In the original RFO tutorial, the landing gear skirts are really doors that open/close
independantly from the extending/retracting gear struts and wheels. However, I chose to
include the skirt with the strut assembly - a simpler but also realistic option.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Last edited by aleatorylamp; February 24th, 2017 at 03:26.
Hello again!
Findings: In reality, it should have been quite obvious to me from the start, but it takes time for the penny to drop.
Trans/Rot and Bank Gear:
The before-last of the 6 vector parameters associated to these instructions refers to the Banking angle.
Entering 10 and -10 degrees (value changes automatically to 350) for the outside/inside gear-views here into either instruction just offsets the 90 degree arc gear arc, slanting the gear outwards by 10 degrees in the extended position, and a downwards by 10 degrees when retracted. Changing this parameter in both instructions, adds the slants together, in this case giving 20 degrees.
There is no utility in using these instructions for the gear to disappear sooner, because there is no animation anyway!
You only need to eliminate the retracted position! It is not a movement, but an apparition.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
...a for what it's worth observation;
when looking at the cube with gear up,
the struts seem to lay along the bottom of the wings,
which indicates that the pivot point
is not where it should be,
within the wing chord itself.
also, the reason the gear bleeds
into the fuselage when retracted
is because the gear protrudes
beyond the wing to fuselage
seal and jump plane call coordinates.
that seal is, also, the fuselage side chain.
anything beyond the seal will bleed.
the easiest solution would be to adjust
the gear location farther out on the wing
to a spot where, when retracted,
the wheel is at the wing side edge
of the wing/fuselage joint.
while you're at it,
move the top of the gear parts up a bit,
so the top is inside the wing cord.
hmmm, on second thought,
could this be an opportunity
to experiment with the technique
we talked about with vectoring
the 0, 0, 0, built prop?
and here i thought we were done with the cubefly.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
Hello Smilo,
I appreciate your interesting thoughts, and given the situation, they express 2 best and simplest solutions.
(1, moving the vectors to make the gear end up inside the wing and 2, moving the longer landing gear outwards).
I didnīt follow the tutorial accurately for the landing gear because it made the plane look so squat with the small propeller that it put me off completely, and I had to ad-lib it a bit. The larger prop needed a higher aircraft position, hence the longer gear.
My expectation that the gear would disappear when retracted (and I thought it would be animated), made me put the hinge in a position where the gear sub-assembly would not interfere with the wings and would stay below the wings, separated from them by a seal (the seal is the bottom panel of the wing). That they would end up inside the fuselage didnīt bother me either for the same reason. But of course they donīt disappear, and it would not be didactic to scrub the retracted position completely because youīd lose an opportunity for using the JUMP PLANE conditional!
OK, I need the practice, so Iīll follow your instructions to improve this unexpected way you suggest, and the Prop 0,0,0 vectoring is another thing that I need further practice on. Lead on, Mc Duff!
Also, the CubeFly will be a good platform to experiment with turning wheels. I think it looks good enough to deserve this little extra! The original RFO tutorial has a sub-section I didnīt know about, that illustrates how to go about this. I can post an update for the .pdf of that tutorial.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
all righty then, back to the cubefly, it is.
all i ask is that we stick to one project at a time.
as you know, i'm easily confused.
but, first, thank you for the new word...didactic.
i had to google it. i understand the
intended to teach, part, but, can't help but wonder about,
particularly in having moral instruction as an ulterior motive.
whatever you say, Stephan.
something else, sorta off topic, that i feel is important.
as you, no doubt, have noticed,
there is a hell of a lot of jumping around
and entries to be made in ad2k.
compiling, going into cfs, looking at the model,
jumping back to ad2k to make corrections,
and on and on and on...in a word, tedium.
so, what can one do to speed this process?
there has to be a better way,
than chasing menu items around with the mouse.
i am all about keyboard short cuts,
both in ad2k and cfs.
if you're interested,
i'd be more than happy to share
some tips and techniques
for making the job, in my opinion,
a lot quicker and easier.
the question is, should i do it here,
or, start a new keyboard shortcut thread?
back to topic,
i just thought of another way
to make the gear disappear inside the fuselage.
split the cube into upper and lower parts
just above where the gear sits inside the lower,
create a seal and jump plane to hide the protruding gear,
then use the same seal to join the upper and lower fuselage.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
Hello Smilo,
Didactic, meant in this case also from the point of view of the learner. The tutorial is teaching. If the student discards the retracted gear, the tutorial canīt teach that, and it wonīt be learnt, so the didactic purpose is lost. Incidentally, I didnīt know that the term could have a moral aspect to it! So I have learnt something too!
OK! No prob. I will not do or post anything with the Pony until I or we have finished ALL pending issues with the CubeFly tutorial. This way it is also easier for me to attack the other one later, because Iīm stuck with the propeller at the moment.
The way I have built the Pony Propeller in the nose, instead of at the null point with Copy/translate from the null point to the nose, wonīt let me work with the animation vectors proposed by the tutorial, so it will be good (didactic!) to practice that on the CubeFly first.
As regards a Keyboard Shortcut thread, it would depend entirely on you, if you fancy doing that. I donīt really use shortcuts, not even in Word, but I know some people really like them. One of my daughters is really into them.
It is not even off topic to have posts related to Keyboard shortcuts here. If you like, you are very welcome to do so.
Funny thing: Initially, in the Model Editor, I was scrolling down the text to the sub-assemblies, or using the sliders on the side with the mouse.
BUT: This morning I discovered the menu bar at the top. Clicking on the "page" option on the top left opens a drop-window with the names of all the Subassemblies you can click on to go there directly.
I only use 4: Ctrl/Insert to insert an instruction; Enter/insert to insert one complete Jump-Plane sequence; Ctrl/P to change TPOLY to GPOLY; and left mouse click+Caps Shift to select the last line of a block of lines once you have clicked on the first line of the block, without releasing the mouse-button.
Split the Cube and shove the gear in between! That is a totally lateral-thinking brainwave! I like the idea.
Itīs much simpler and cleaner than moving the gear outwards. ...and it looks like less work!
AND: The aircraft wonīt have to to look like a bow-legged Duck!
Letīs see if I can do it!
Cheers for now,
Aleatorylamp
as for the last bright idea....never mind.
a seal and jump plane will not split
the view of a Sub Assembly if said SA
over laps the seal.
as, for example, the retracted gear protruding
through the wall of the side fuselage.
the jump plane merely decides
which will be drawn first,
at the selected seal coordinates,
the complete gear SA or the fuselage wall.
another example would be
the subtle bleeds at certain angles
where the horizontal stabilizers
meet the tail fuselage side panels.
it's basic stuff, learned the hard way.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
Hello Smilo,
I understand. Oh, well... Probably it wonīt look too bad with the landing gear moved a bit outwards, I was exaggerating.
If one is to provide the model as a basis for a Jump Plane Sequencing Refresher Tutorial, this should definitely be cured, otherwise it would just be bad form, so Iīm going to fix it following your suggestions in your earlier e-mail.
Iīm also very intrigued by the way the Trans/Rot is described for turning the wheels, one degree at a time as long as the aircraft speed is below the reference speed set in the Settings menu. That could be quite an attractive feature on a model.
Thanks for your time and your efforts! I do appreciate it, as I know it can get a bit tedious at times.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
dealing with tedium is one thing,
danging one's head against the wall,
trying to find a solution is something all together.
i've spent most of the day in the attempt,
with no positive results...that's frustrating.
i guess relearning the simple facts
of visual sequencing can be considered a positive.
after that lesson, i decided to move
the gear SA out the wing...no problem.
BUT, now the vectors are misaligned.
so, i screwed around with that for a while,
eventually realizing, i can't remember how to do it.
i'm going to set it aside for a while.
i gave myself a headache.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
Hello Smilo,
Oh, deary me!, as our junior school english literature teacher used to say.
I am terribly sorry!
Actually, my initial design mod involved a higher propeller and the normal length landing gear, with a nose that was less slanted on the top than at the bottom. Unfortunately the unmodified vector then made the prop wobble - I wasnīt conscious that the vector would have to be translated upwards to fit the centre of the higher propeller.
That would in fact have also been a good solution, and could be easier than moving the gear outwards.
Please donīt torture yourself any more - the job done is wonderful, and I myself have to fix the misalignement in one way or another!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
torture, shmorture...don't be sorry.
this is an investigation process
for myself as well.
as i told you, way back there,
i don't do things, i don't want to do.
at this point, it's become a challenge.
i will not be thwarted.
...not yet, anyway.
actually, i'm working on it right now.
sometimes the magic works.
sometimes it doesn't.
Hello Smilo,
Well Iīm relieved that this is the case, and not what Iīd feared!
So then, just to get my bearings, the plan is shifting the gear outward.
Now I remember the reason for the simplification of including the Skirts
with the Gearstruts: There was a Skirt hinge problem from the start,
whereby the WDOOR R0y instruction given in the tutorial for the Skirt
hinge was never accepted, automatically forcing the use of WDOOR R0x,
despite there being another vector defined for it, close to the Gearstrut one.
This made the skirts hinge backwards, and not inwards after the Gear!
Strange...
Update:
OK, so Iīve taken the Gear asub-assembly into multiple selection to shift it outwards
by 2.5, and itīs sitting now at 13.5.
Then I edited the vector, changing it by 2.5, to move it outward from 11.0 to 13.5, and
it accepted it, although initially it seemed to be off centre before pressing confirm and
validating with OK. It seems to accept it, but after compiling the model, the vector used
is still the old one, and the retracted gear is too low and inwards, apparently 2.5 ft off.
Investigating in the Model Editor, there is only one vector at -13.5 to choose from, and
none at 13.5, so now the right gear tucks in at wing height but still 2.5 inwards - no good!
So the initial offset of this vector that appeared while editing it messed things up.
Letīs see......
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Hello Smilo!
But only the movement. The display is ALMOST perfect.
When I went to made the opposite vector on the right at 13.5, I still couldnīt find it to assign it in the Model Editor, so I wanted to edit it, and suddenly the old vector at 10.5 appeared selected for editing, and I entered 13.5. Going to the Model Editor to assign it, it suddenly appeared as 13.5. I compiled, loaded the model into CFS, and it works!! The gear shows perfectly lined up, tucked in, in its place when retracted and doesnīt look bad at all.
Iīve attached some screenshots. You will notice by the shadows, that the .air file still needs adjustment, but we arenīt working on that yet...
Looking at the way the gear strut now disappears flush disappears within the wing (I didnīt have to do anything here, it corrected itself), it is probably best not to include the strut with the retracted gear position just the skirt and the wheel so that it wonīt bleed through the wing leading edge. Then, possibly the skirt could have a slightly darker shade from the rest of the wing, just to make it show.
Update: I was trying to make the strut polygons hidden when retracted, but thereīs only one instance for them, so itīs impossible to do in an easy way.
To post the current version will be better when the plane is definitely finished, so that it is posted as a tutorial together with the Plane Jump Refresher Guide you are preparing, unless you want to see the file now.
I also want to do the turning wheel experiment, with the intention of including it in the tutorial because of its unique feature for CFS1.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Last edited by aleatorylamp; February 25th, 2017 at 01:30.
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