Martin Marauder Gold for FS9 has been released - Page 26
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Thread: Martin Marauder Gold for FS9 has been released

  1. #626
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    JM-1 Data Point & Question

    Well, I thought I found a data point for the JM's performance, but I'm not at all sure now.

    Francis H. Dean, in American Navy And Marine Corps Airplanes, slips us this tidbit in a photo caption. He says that he JM-2 had a top speed of about 285 mph, about the same as the earlier JM-1. Hooray, I thought, that's a good starting point, something to compare with the bomber.

    Then I took a quick look at the Wikipedia entry for the B-26 and it gave 285 mph as the Marauder's top speed. Same thing!

    Now maybe the Wiki article cited the highest top speed of any version, and that would be the JM, but that just leaves the question of how much slower were the bomber versions? Or maybe Dean just took the figure from the bomber version, thinking they were all about the same.

    Dean is mainly a picture book - a metropolitan phone book size volume of high resolution photos printed fairly large on heavy glossy pages, of every type of plane the Naval services ever owned from the beginning through the F-18 - and about the only information about the planes is what's in the captions. Sometimes not much at all. (Still, love them pics!)

    I have a question: will you be making a JM-1 model with specular gloss, like you did with the bomber?

    I ask because the two yellow birds and the post-war one all have glossy finishes. The 1943 one was matte, and the silver one was bare metal, and they are both well catered to by the matte model, which is reflective. But the glossy ones need a glossy model. Either that, or I'd have to rework the textures with alpha channels for metallic sheen, which doesn't really look right, and would require not just redoing the skins, but re-releasing them and deleting the ones i the library now, which would make work for Rami.

    I hesitate to ask for a glossy model because I haven't the foggiest notion of what's involved. If it's more work that redoing three skins, then I'll try to do the skins with metallic shine. Bit if it's just a matter of making a copy of the model and adding specular gloss with a click or two, then I'd sure like to have a glossy model. If you make a glossy model, make it as glossy as possible, since the layers of dust and grime (aka "noise" in the paint kit) have a flattening effect. (Or would that be a mattening effect?)

  2. #627
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Well, I thought I found a data point for the JM's performance, but I'm not at all sure now.

    Francis H. Dean, in American Navy And Marine Corps Airplanes, slips us this tidbit in a photo caption. He says that he JM-2 had a top speed of about 285 mph, about the same as the earlier JM-1. Hooray, I thought, that's a good starting point, something to compare with the bomber.

    Then I took a quick look at the Wikipedia entry for the B-26 and it gave 285 mph as the Marauder's top speed. Same thing!

    Now maybe the Wiki article cited the highest top speed of any version, and that would be the JM, but that just leaves the question of how much slower were the bomber versions? Or maybe Dean just took the figure from the bomber version, thinking they were all about the same.

    Dean is mainly a picture book - a metropolitan phone book size volume of high resolution photos printed fairly large on heavy glossy pages, of every type of plane the Naval services ever owned from the beginning through the F-18 - and about the only information about the planes is what's in the captions. Sometimes not much at all. (Still, love them pics!)

    I have a question: will you be making a JM-1 model with specular gloss, like you did with the bomber?

    I ask because the two yellow birds and the post-war one all have glossy finishes. The 1943 one was matte, and the silver one was bare metal, and they are both well catered to by the matte model, which is reflective. But the glossy ones need a glossy model. Either that, or I'd have to rework the textures with alpha channels for metallic sheen, which doesn't really look right, and would require not just redoing the skins, but re-releasing them and deleting the ones i the library now, which would make work for Rami.

    I hesitate to ask for a glossy model because I haven't the foggiest notion of what's involved. If it's more work that redoing three skins, then I'll try to do the skins with metallic shine. Bit if it's just a matter of making a copy of the model and adding specular gloss with a click or two, then I'd sure like to have a glossy model. If you make a glossy model, make it as glossy as possible, since the layers of dust and grime (aka "noise" in the paint kit) have a flattening effect. (Or would that be a mattening effect?)
    The info I found from one source stated 315 MPH (I forget the altitude). Anyhow, I have removed the excess weight and trying to hit the empty and loaded weight numbers from the specs. Once I do that, with only fuel in the mains, I will check speeds. Before any other changes, I'll reduce drag a bit to compensate for the lack of a turret. Then I'll see where I am with speed and go from there.

    Yes, I'll do a variant that adds specular highlights. You have the ability already to do gloss in the alpha channel (in FS9 only). For me, it simply involves changing the material properties for each of the textures that needs it (i.e.fuse, wings, tails, engines).

    Rami does not have to be involved. You should be able to simply Edit your previous uploads and replace the current files. You can also change descriptions and any other item you need including the screen shots. I assume that you have that access. The Edit Icon is on the top right of each library item. You can also Delete your entries if your prefer. You will find that when you Edit. Just scroll to the bottom and check the Delete box, and select the Delete button.
    Last edited by Milton Shupe; September 28th, 2017 at 16:53.
    Milton Shupe
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  3. #628
    Attached is the JM model folder with specular highlights added.

    Looks good here. Tested using this paint as darker shows it better.

    FS9 Only Model
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ms-2017-sep-29-001.jpg  
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Milton Shupe
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  4. #629
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    The info I found from one source stated 315 MPH (I forget the altitude). Anyhow, I have removed the excess weight and trying to hit the empty and loaded weight numbers from the specs. Once I do that, with only fuel in the mains, I will check speeds. Before any other changes, I'll reduce drag a bit to compensate for the lack of a turret. Then I'll see where I am with speed and go from there.

    Yes, I'll do a variant that adds specular highlights. You have the ability already to do gloss in the alpha channel (in FS9 only). For me, it simply involves changing the material properties for each of the textures that needs it (i.e.fuse, wings, tails, engines).

    Rami does not have to be involved. You should be able to simply Edit your previous uploads and replace the current files. You can also change descriptions and any other item you need including the screen shots. I assume that you have that access. The Edit Icon is on the top right of each library item. You can also Delete your entries if your prefer. You will find that when you Edit. Just scroll to the bottom and check the Delete box, and select the Delete button.

    Well, an extra thirty mph or so for a considerably lighter plane with less drag sounds plausible to me, but I'm far from expert about such matters.

    That's great that you'll make a glossy version of the model! I was hoping it wouldn't be a lot of trouble. I kind of thought not, since there are matte and glossy versions of the model, but I wasn't sure.

    I can make a glossy version myself, and will do so for the update kit, and I will use the same file naming context that you used on the bomber versions. That will get us through the beta period. But it only makes sense for me to do that when you're going to do the same with the release version of the models. Otherwise the skins wouldn't look right on the final model.

    Actually, by the way, I don't really have the ability to do a real glossy paint finish with the alpha channel. The alpha channel makes it possible to add metallic reflection, and that has a very different look than glossy paint, at least on my rig, and it should because he two kinds of shine really are different. Using the alpha channel makes the surface look like anodized metal, like those cheap bottle openers they sell in package stores that come in various colors. The shine is, and looks like, surface reflection as from polished metal, not the deep, stick your hand into it gloss of a nice glossy paint job. But I needn't be so pedantic when you are going to make a glossy version.

    I did use the alpha channel on one of my bomber skins because it's the only way I know to make part of the plane shine and part matte. It looks kind of OK, but not really right.

    Something I learned from using the paint kit is that the layers of dust and grime ("noise") that make the plane look like it's been around for a while and didn't just roll out of the paint shop also have the effect of dulling the glossy finish. That's as it should be, since that's what happens in real life. That's why I asked for a fully glossy model even though the skins won't look quite so shiny i the end. Without the "noise," the skin would look best with more of a semi-gloss, but the "noise" dulls full gloss down to a semi-gloss finish.

    I'm having a great time with Steve's paint kit! Most of the paint kits I've tried (like the A-20 one) won't open in my primitive software. Of those that I could open, over the years I could co0unt on the fingers of one hand, and have a couple fingers left over, the ones that I thought actually helped paint a model. This one opens for me and works wonderfully. Kudos to Steve!

    I had no idea that I could edit files in the library! How do I do that? I could edit the little errors that snuck into the ReadMe of the 1943 JM-1 skin I put up the other day, that didn't quite get finished properly due to multiple interruptions from Rowdy the cat and from phone calls.

    With the skins, my goal is to get everything set up so that no editing will be necessary, with everything ready to go for the user of both the beta and the final versions of the Marauder. But I'd still like to know how to edit from the library. Up to now I always thought that the only way to make a change was to upload a corrected zip file and ask Rami to delete the old one. I have had to do that embarrassingly often.

  5. #630
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Attached is the JM model folder with specular highlights added.

    Looks good here. Tested using this paint as darker shows it better.

    FS9 Only Model
    That's perfect! Love it!

    If the shine came from the alpha channel it would look like metallic sheen rather than glossy shine. ("Sheeny" instead of shiny.) Worse, it would lighten the colors and make them look not quite right. I hate that, how it changes the colors. Specular gloss like this doesn't effect the colors.

  6. #631
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    Oops, just spotted the glossy model attached to your post. That means I won't have to presume anything about the file name, I'll just stick with what you used. At first I thought you meant that you'd make a glossy version for the final release, not that you'd already done it.

  7. #632
    Mick,

    Unless you do not have the permissions, you can Edit your uploads any time.

    Just find the Edit Icon top right of your entry, and your original upload page pops up with all your original entries. You can change any part you wish, then save it.

    You can replace the original zip file, or just change the text description.

    If there are files in the zip you wish to change or replace, you must change your source and re-upload the zip using this page.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ms-2017-sep-29-002.jpg   ms-2017-sep-29-003.jpg  
    Milton Shupe
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  8. #633
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Shupe View Post
    Mick,

    Unless you do not have the permissions, you can Edit your uploads any time.
    Just find the Edit Icon top right of your entry, and your original upload page pops up with all your original entries. You can change any part you wish, then save it.
    You can replace the original zip file, or just change the text description.
    If there are files in the zip you wish to change or replace, you must change your source and re-upload the zip using this page.
    Wow, cool! I had no idea! Thank you!

    Now I wonder why Rami never told me that any of the times I asked him to delete a file and I'd upload a new one.

  9. #634
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    Alrighty then!

    The Upgrade/Update/Enhancement/Fix Packages have been uploaded. There are separate ones for the B-26 and the JM. I made those so folks who have already downloaded the skins can apply the new items with some simple dragging and dropping.

    The library copies of all the skins have been updated for those who might download them in the future.

    Milton, Rami owes you a stein of digital beer for telling me how to do this. I can't count the times I've PM'd him to ask him to do that sort of thing for me.

  10. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Alrighty then!

    The Upgrade/Update/Enhancement/Fix Packages have been uploaded. There are separate ones for the B-26 and the JM. I made those so folks who have already downloaded the skins can apply the new items with some simple dragging and dropping.

    The library copies of all the skins have been updated for those who might download them in the future.

    Milton, Rami owes you a stein of digital beer for telling me how to do this. I can't count the times I've PM'd him to ask him to do that sort of thing for me.
    Thank you Mick. The Edit feature is a great thing; saves a lot of time. Thanks
    Milton Shupe
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  11. #636

    Question about 'placards.bmp'

    Thanks for a really great a/c Milton and all the team!

    I have faithfully followed the gestation, birth and upbringing of this fine baby. Have kept abreast of all the model changes and updates, gave a whoop! when Milton went 'turretless' and am religiously installing the latest batch of texture updates.

    Despite all of these modded models and up-dated skins, the texture 'placards.bmp' remains steadfastly unchanged. Are all the control knobs and the trim wheel meant to remain in all these various day-glo colours? Or have I missed something during the gestation and upbringing phases?

    Note that I am no longer in the 'first-flush of youth' and increasingly miss the obvious, so grateful for your assistance in this minor but niggling matter.

    Love the flt model - very addictive to 'touch and go' addicts.

    Mal

  12. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by vonernsk View Post
    Thanks for a really great a/c Milton and all the team!

    I have faithfully followed the gestation, birth and upbringing of this fine baby. Have kept abreast of all the model changes and updates, gave a whoop! when Milton went 'turretless' and am religiously installing the latest batch of texture updates.

    Despite all of these modded models and up-dated skins, the texture 'placards.bmp' remains steadfastly unchanged. Are all the control knobs and the trim wheel meant to remain in all these various day-glo colours? Or have I missed something during the gestation and upbringing phases?

    Note that I am no longer in the 'first-flush of youth' and increasingly miss the obvious, so grateful for your assistance in this minor but niggling matter.

    Love the flt model - very addictive to 'touch and go' addicts.

    Mal
    LOL Mal, :-)

    What we are missing, and waiting for, are internal textures. I know of one person who is working on them for his family of awesome textures.

    But, Wellis has volunteered to take on the Marauder interior texturing for us, and that is quite a project in itself as the interior is open and modeled from nose to tail gunner, albeit sparsely.

    As soon as he wraps up the A-20 Havoc series of tasks (seems I keep asking him for more things), he is ready to get started on the Marauder interior, cockpit, panel, ECU, and all those day-glo placards, and probably a few gauge bmps.
    This will require some patience on our parts as there is much to do inside. But, I think the wait will be well worth it based on the A-20 Havoc work he did. :-)
    Milton Shupe
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  13. #638

    Cannot see the wood for the trees!

    Thanks for your swift response Milton.

    My apologies for raising a matter that is well(is) in hand. Apart from the cockpit and having never had 'active camera' my horizons (inside anyway) have always been very curtailed.

    How this a/c ever got the nick-name 'The Widow Maker' I do not know. I put it down to the 'pilot factory' approach to training that was forced on the USAAF. Young and in-experienced pilots suddenly in command of a complex race-horse of a medium bomber. Like the P-51, it was a highly strung thoroughbred that demanded constant attention.

    Again, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your efforts in the production of this fine American bomber. I know you have had your hands full in not only continuing to keep the faith with ye olde FS9, but in now meeting the demands of another three simulators.

    Rgds and respect

    Mal

  14. #639
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    First Of The Many

    Here we have the very first Marauder. The B-26 was ordered into production from the drawing board and there was no prototype; 40-1361 was the first pre-production example. It first flew with no markings except the national insignia (the rudder stripes were part of the national insignia in those days) and without its turret or any other armament. Note the stars in four wing positions and absent from the fuselage; all subsequent Marauders would be marked to a later standard, with two wing stars and fuselage stars. Later 40-1361 would fly with a dummy turret shape, and eventually it was brought up to production standards

    I was able to paint this skin because we now have the JM models without turrets or other armament. If you like sleek and shiny, this is the Marauder for you!

  15. #640
    Hey Mick --

    Thanks for the "Update" kit for the Marauder, The JM-1 paints are quire unique and you've replicated them superbly.... besides, you seem to be having a lot of fun with the old girl. Job well done, man!

    BB686
    "El gato que camina como hombre" -- The cat that walks like a man

  16. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Here we have the very first Marauder. The B-26 was ordered into production from the drawing board and there was no prototype; 40-1361 was the first pre-production example. It first flew with no markings except the national insignia (the rudder stripes were part of the national insignia in those days) and without its turret or any other armament. Note the stars in four wing positions and absent from the fuselage; all subsequent Marauders would be marked to a later standard, with two wing stars and fuselage stars. Later 40-1361 would fly with a dummy turret shape, and eventually it was brought up to production standards

    I was able to paint this skin because we now have the JM models without turrets or other armament. If you like sleek and shiny, this is the Marauder for you!

    Ahhh, well done Sir!
    Milton Shupe
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  17. #642
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    OK, one more

    One more and that will probably be all the skins I paint. I've gone through my references and found as many as I could that are within my capabilities. That means planes with no complex nose art that I can't find a good image of, and planes with a lot of wear and tear and weathering. If it wasn't for Steve Bryant's paint kit I couldn't have done nearly as many. I know I picked the low hanging fruit, but I did what I felt I could do well. In the words of a great American philosopher, "A man's got to know his limitations."

    This means that here are a lot of great Marauders waiting to be painted by those with more skill than I have for artwork and weathering. I sure hope someone, or several someones, will come along and go to it.

    Anyway, this is the skin I just uploaded.

    B-26G of the 585th Bomb Squadron, 394th Bomb Group, 9th U.S. Army Air Force, Cambrai/Niergnives, France, fall 1944. It has its upper surfaces painted in what appears to be RAF Forest Green.

  18. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    One more and that will probably be all the skins I paint. I've gone through my references and found as many as I could that are within my capabilities. That means planes with no complex nose art that I can't find a good image of, and planes with a lot of wear and tear and weathering. If it wasn't for Steve Bryant's paint kit I couldn't have done nearly as many. I know I picked the low hanging fruit, but I did what I felt I could do well. In the words of a great American philosopher, "A man's got to know his limitations."

    This means that here are a lot of great Marauders waiting to be painted by those with more skill than I have for artwork and weathering. I sure hope someone, or several someones, will come along and go to it.

    Anyway, this is the skin I just uploaded.

    B-26G of the 585th Bomb Squadron, 394th Bomb Group, 9th U.S. Army Air Force, Cambrai/Niergnives, France, fall 1944. It has its upper surfaces painted in what appears to be RAF Forest Green.
    Ahhhh, well done Sir! I like it!
    Milton Shupe
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  19. #644
    Thank you Mick for your works on this fine bird.I feel you have gone above and beyond the call of duty and I don't blame you one bit for stopping there.I salute you!
    PS: You did do the paint scheme for my "dream Marauder" so of course I'm not going to complain!

    Joel

  20. #645
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    Well, I thought I'd gotten my fill pf painting Marauders, but I didn't have one with invasion stripes. Most all the pics I've seen of Marauders with invasion stripes show planes with lot of wear and tear and weathering, usually with nose art that's as beyond my painting skills as realistic weathering. So I figured I'd leave those alone and hope that someone with more skill and talent would come along and paint those great looking combat veterans.

    I knew that those beat-up planes started out new and clean, but who knows what they looked like then, or at what point in their combat tours they acquired those interesting and colorful markings and artwork? So I let them be.

    But that left me without a Maruder with invasion stripes, and it was gnawin' at me!

    I found a picture of a Marauder with invasion stripes that shows no wear and tear, has no nose art, and must have been new just in tie for D-Day and it's associated stripes. So here it is.

    This nearly new B-26C belonged to the 555th Bomb Squadron, 386th Bomb Group, 9th U.S. Army Air Force, based at Boxted, UK in June, 1944.

    I still wish I could paint realistic weathering, and I still hope someone more talented will paint some skins like that, but now I have at least one Marauder with invasion stripes, so it's not gnawin' at me anymore.

  21. #646
    Mick,
    Thanks for painting the 573rd Bomb Squadron skin. Very nice.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  22. #647
    SOH-CM-2020 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane91 View Post
    Mick,
    Thanks for painting the 573rd Bomb Squadron skin. Very nice.
    You're very welcome! I'm glad you like it.

    I hope some others will start painting the Marauder. I've painted quite a few skins for it, but there are plenty more waiting to be done.

  23. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    You're very welcome! I'm glad you like it.

    I hope some others will start painting the Marauder. I've painted quite a few skins for it, but there are plenty more waiting to be done.
    Thank you Mick

    I suspect we'll see more FS9 activity once we get the interior textures done and get the Marauder officially released.

    Wellis is working on them now. :-)
    Milton Shupe
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  24. #649

    Icon26

    Just wondering how this project is going?

  25. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by jamminjames View Post
    Just wondering how this project is going?
    JJ, Wellis can answer more accurately than I can. But, a short answer is: working on it every day. Focus is in the cockpit first; making good progress on the cockpit panel and ECU. Looking very nice but still early in the process.
    Milton Shupe
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