Me 264 for CFS3 (flyable)
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  1. #1

    Me 264 for CFS3 (flyable)

    related to research whats available for CFS3 when speaking about Messerschmitt Me 264 ("Amerika Bomber" term series), I dare to open a new thread.

    well, a scratch made model of Me 264 is in a test development, primary to check if would be possible to make CFS3 planes without 3d modeling any canopy frames, solving this all simply with alpha layered (transparent) texture paint instead. some intial info here.

    here is how it looks sofar (CFS3 + AnKor shaders July 2016 release).

    a public airplane version soon for testing, if such solution would work at your CFS3 config ...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails enb2017_2_3_1_16_57.jpg   enb2017_2_3_1_20_21.jpg   enb2017_2_3_1_23_21.jpg   enb2017_2_3_1_24_12.jpg   enb2017_2_3_1_25_29.jpg  

  2. #2
    Members + sixstrings5859's Avatar
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    A awesome project ! Thank you so much for working on this.A dream come true.

  3. #3
    Nice start to this model!

  4. #4

  5. #5
    I started thinking about a real-life scenario if these had ever been built and used against America. The Axis had no long range fighters to accompany them, the US had high-flying Mustangs by day and P61s by night and long range radar-equipped patrols were flying out to mid-Atlantic every day.

    It could have been quite a turkey shoot.
    Tom
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  6. #6
    yeah, indeed...

    ok, some new images presenting the testing stuff. at a melee event. a textured stuff. quickly textured stuff.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails enb2017_2_5_2_28_19.jpg   enb2017_2_5_2_25_42.jpg   enb2017_2_5_2_16_55.jpg   enb2017_2_5_2_8_7.jpg  

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BorekS
    a public airplane version soon for testing, if such solution would work at your CFS3 config ...
    well, as said, here we go:
    CFS3_Me264_Amerika_Bomber_by_BorekS_demo_v.0.1a - DOWNLOAD (cca 1.2 MB)

    EDIT: optional 4-engine sound pack available here:
    CFS3_Me264_Amerika_Bomber by BorekS 4-engine soundpack v.0.1a - DOWNLOAD (cca 10 MB)
    Code:
    Messerschmitt Me 264 V-1 Amerika Bomber for CFS3
    ------------------------------------------------
    Add-on pack version: 0.1a (public)
    3D model and textures: BorekS
    Flight model: stock CFS3 B-26
    Sounds: stock CFS3 Ju 88
    Weapons: stock CFS3 Ju 88
    Effects: stock CFS3
    
    
    About the current add-on pack
    -----------------------------
    This version is designed simply for public ingame testing and tweaking the texture alpha channel features, applied on the airplane solid nose mesh.
    There just arent any regular 3D mesh canopy windows or frames modeled, its all about texture paint only.   
    
    
    Notes:
    ----- 
    This airplane still is early work in progress. Flight physics, sounds also a lot of visualy related parts isnt done yet.
    CFS3 with installed AnkorShaders
    Ive tested the model with AnkorShaders july 2016 release and it seems all OK there.

    CFS3 virgin (deault) install
    * at the CFS3 stock install having some small visual issues with blurry tansparency propellers vs solid prop heads from some angle.
    * what Ive discovered is the transparent gmax materials cant use any specular textures - then a transparent glass feature appears like a solid material. therefore, the model doesnt use any specular maps, its specularity is defined with the gmax material only.
    * to get working the external model interiror properly, such texture must be stored as DXT1 alpha channel, otherwise is the whole interiror mesh invisible from outside view. well, this are common Z-order (depth sorting) issues with alpha channel textures, known from other games aswell, infact.
    Last edited by BorekS; February 5th, 2017 at 09:20.

  8. #8
    hmm, currently 17 downloads and no word if that feature ever works at your CFS3 game settings?

    anyway, did some test quick (re)paint of the virtual cockpit texture, just sharing the image.
    I would just change it to bit more serious paint work and its done, I would say.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails enb2017_2_6_1_25_9_small.jpg  

  9. #9
    excellent ....model for me the wheels ,,,,,,,are good bubt doesnt connect to plane missing the tire connections ,,,,,,to plane otherwise ..... csound is excellent ,,,, flys and takes off well ,,, over all excelled any
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shot02-08-17-18-02-47.jpg  

  10. #10
    thanks, rocketred.
    the goal why the demo is released is just to get response by other users if the feature works, the rest isnt important now. however, as a bonus Ive implemented into the demo the ability to load some bombs and also the bombsight reticle view is there, so it may give to people some fun already...

    relating to the download count I just still wondering how hard is to write any response, to push the thing forwards...

  11. #11
    Thanks for doing this, looks good! I would love to try it out, but can't get CFS3 to run consistently.

  12. #12
    Hi Borek, your idea works very well, I did get some shimmering around the outer edge of the glass when viewed externally, but I re-saved the dds in Photoshop with the Nvidea dds plugin, and that stopped the shimmer?
    I think it's a worthwhile project, very interesting subject, and the model looks very good. I know its still WIP, but I would increase the size of the main mapping if you want a decent texture, speaking as a skinner that is!
    John
    (DR/ MAW/ ETO/ PTO Textures)

    Keep it coming!

  13. #13
    thank you for testing! could you send a shot of the shimmering effect, please? also which texture and what dds settings you've used to fix it, and what AnKor shader version you have installed?

    as said, testing the nose window frame / glass feature is the point now.
    I've just released the demo bit "enhanced", to be more fun, including quick made all the rest of things, so like the uw-mapping the body cant be so unhappy way mapped for the final release of course

    well, the current demo may look like a decent add-on for somebody maybe, but needs to know youve got just a wip stuff, which was made from scratch completely in a less then five day time frame, infact...

    if that feature would work with minimal end-user visual issues, I would apply it on my other projects, like Arado 234B and C, for example...

  14. #14
    Ok not sure if it will show up on the screenshots, but if you zoom in you can see a jagged edge around the windows, this shimmers in game. There will be a technical name for it but I don't know it!

    The last shot is my re-saved texture, this one is a lot clearer around the edge of the windows and does not shimmer. I used Photoshop CS2 and saved it with the Nvidia Photoshop dds plugin saved in "DXT5 ARGB 8 bpp interpolated alpha"

    I'm using the latest shader package that Major Magee uploaded http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...1&linkid=22356

    If you are using Martin Wright's DXT bitmap to save your texture, that could be the culprit, it's a great tool I use it myself, but the quality isn't quite up to Photoshop standard, especially with alpha channels?

    BTW the interior has no problems, it's just the exterior that I had the issue, other users may not get this effect?
    Hope this helps?


    John
    (DR/ MAW/ ETO/ PTO Textures)

    Keep it coming!

  15. #15
    Hmm shots are not showing the issue I had very well!
    John
    (DR/ MAW/ ETO/ PTO Textures)

    Keep it coming!

  16. #16
    I just downloaded this, and I'm not seeing the issue you describe. It sounds like crawl that's caused by a sloping line that doesn't have any anti-aliasing applied to it. That would only show up looking at it live or captured in a video. Perhaps when you re-saved it the edges were automatically smoothed a bit, and that hid the stair-stepping of the sloping lines more. I may not be seeing it with the original textures because of my high screen resolution and video card AA settings.

    One thing to keep in mind for compatibility with AnKor's shaders when using this technique to create windows is to only apply the alpha mask to the _t.dds and not the _r.dd or _s.dds files. If you do the texture may display as black or grey.

    An earlier example of using this technique to create windows was my IJN Showa L2D3 Tabby transport. http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...d=85&linkid=80
    US Army, Major, Ret.

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  17. #17
    That sounds like a good explanation of what was happening Andy, and yes the better quality texture would have smoothed things.
    John
    (DR/ MAW/ ETO/ PTO Textures)

    Keep it coming!

  18. #18
    yes, I cant see any differerency at the attached screens too

    well, having one idea whats going up there maybe:

    EXTERIOR MODEL TEXTURE FLICKERING
    the public demo "me_264_fuselage_t.dds" is a texture of the external airplane body including the nose, stored as DDS DXT5.
    the public demo "me_264_interior_t.dds" is a texture of the external airplane nose interior, stored as DDS DXT1 (1bit alpha).

    DXT1 way stored image pixels can be solid or fully transparent stage only. DXT1 format isnt ideal for smooth transparent shapes except boxy shapes and so naturally makes rounded, sloping etc. edges jagged looking. depends on the image resolution, how much this will be noticable. anyway, Ive had to use it this way, the reason is described at post #7 (see CFS3 virgin (deault) install part there).

    the "me_264_interior_t.dds" is textured same uv-map like the exterior nose, its just a plain mesh copy of the nose, but with flipped polygon normals and 99% of the original mesh scale. in some cases its not enough such small width between two mesh surfaces for CFS3, they are just too close, so this may cause a texture flickering effect.

    if the textures after resaving fixed the shimmering issue, they eighter got smoother edges because of the different DDS file fromat settings and compression settings, or maybe youve stored them with mipmaps. mipmaps are image LODs we can say, and smaller images presenting smoother paint. still, somebody said to me CFS3 generates the mipmaps itself, so I am not storing them this way. I personaly prefer Paint.NET for DDS image saving latest years, because the DXTBmp and a few others gave me always much whorse looking results.

  19. #19
    Hi Borek, yes understand what your saying, and yes I did save with mip maps, my fix was probably a combination of a better quality texture, and the mip maps then.
    It was no real biggie, just giving you the feedback on what I saw, and other users are not seeing the same issues, so I hope you continue with the project?
    John
    (DR/ MAW/ ETO/ PTO Textures)

    Keep it coming!

  20. #20
    yes, such feedback is exactly whats wanted, thank you Bravo/4 and Major Magee for taking a look at the project.

    I would be happy to continue with the CFS3 Me 264... did some tests with the transparent texture nose fetaure at CFS3, applying the .+sr.dds specular / reflex maps and also the .+nm.dds normal (bump) map. it did not made any effect what I would find somehow usefull. good is such AnKor shader (july 2016 release) texture feature didnt took any effect on the window transparency. but thats all the benefit of this.

    Ive ported the Me 264 into FS2004 (FS9) aswell, because my small wish ist to port my things into FS9, CFS2 and / or FSX one day aswell.
    Ive had to convert the alpha DDS textures into extended BMP as DXT1 and DXT3, with DXTBmp tool. it looks whorse of course, DXT3 just isnt smooth DXT5 transition, but as far as I know, FS2004 doesnt support DXT5.

    Ive used the Me 264 FS2004 version at FSX aswell, with the "usual" transparency texture issue. having no success to fix it sofar, some people says its doable with ModelConverterX...

  21. #21
    SOH-CM-2017 Pat Pattle's Avatar
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    A fine looking model BorekS, I hadn't noticed that there was a download of it on this thread, I'll grab it and have
    a look over the weekend.

    I'm very impressed with all you do for CFS3, keep up the great work!
    CFS3 Battle of Britain Website: http://cfs3bob.wix.com/battle-of-britain
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  22. #22
    Looks fine on my low tech laptop. I thought it would be more pixelated.

  23. #23
    I agree. Your job is recreating this old peace of software. Congrats and thanks for your dedication.

    all th best

  24. #24
    thank you guys.

    well, I was expecting bit more response and sooner, when checking the demo has 44 downloads
    ok, it seems the feature works fine at other user CFS3 configs, right?

    ... anyway, because it seems the other my flightsim projects arent any "hot stuff" for players, means to need them finish soon, I am gonna slow down such work and to bother with it daily. I am just turning now to racesim add-on development back, setting it as a priority now. my racesim mod coworker finished the physics and sounds for one project which we started 4 years back and now is my turn to finish my part.

  25. #25
    Members + sixstrings5859's Avatar
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    Haven't got to test the bomber yet. Too busy playing instead of testing...sorry. Love your work and is most interesting . Just hope you don't get burned out doing all this so fast. You are most needed here and thank you for all you have done and doing now. Hopefully you can get the help needed for this project to be finished. Will download and try her out asap. Thanks again.......Scott

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