A Baker's Dozen of Stearman Repaints

[gray eagle]

John,

I like your collection of paints for the Stearman however, I am a little confused with the different designations and variations of the Stearman. I am interested in the Navy version and I know that the ARMH
had its version and then I seen this info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing-Stearman_Model_75 and as I read it, I wonder what are the appreciable differences (if any) between the ARMY PT-17 and the
Navy N2S version. I see that the engines in each version were basically the same R-680-8 engine vs Continental R-670 engne (they sound the same any way).....

So, they (PT17 vs N2S) both were bi-wing and made by Boeing so is it just a matter of what the Army's designation is vs the Navy's N-2S that is the difference?


Edit: I found this link for the Stearman and wonder if it would be authentic enough for the N-2S or PT17?

[Bomber_12th]

Yeah, there were a few different engines used on the aircraft throughout production, which provided some of the reason for the different designations, although each of the engines produced about the same amount of power (roughly 220 hp each) and all of the aircraft, no matter their Navy/Army designations, were "Model 75's". During WWII, the Navy and Army both had their own ways of designating the exact same aircraft (like the AT-6 vs. SNJ, A-24 vs. SBD, A-25 vs. SB2C, etc.), even when they were manufactured side-by-side/from the same production block. For the Navy, there was the N2S-1, -2, -3, -4, and -5. For the Army, there was the PT-13, PT-17, PT-18, and PT-27 (designation given to a USAAF contract sent to Canada), as well as a select few other derivatives.

The N2S-1, like the George Bush Stearman is, is a very early variant, so they didn't even have an electrical system on-board (no lights, no electric starter, no radios, etc.) - that came on the later variants. There were of course other production differences/improvements throughout the manufacturing of these aircraft, such as different cockpit and panel/instrument arrangements.

The Stearman Wiki page shows that the N2S-2, N2S-5 and PT-13 were powered by Lycoming R-680's. The N2S-1, N2S-3, N2S-4, PT-17 and PT-27 were powered by Continental R-670's, and the PT-18 fitted with a Jacobs R-755. This was likely due, as can be referenced in many other circumstances during wartime aircraft production, to the production of engines not keeping pace with the production of the aircraft (in other words, Boeing could produce more Stearmans in a given amount of time than manufacturers like Lycoming and Continental could produce the specific engines). With either engine, you're looking at the same amount of power/performance, with about 220 hp. Post-war, a number of Stearmans have been modified with bigger engines, producing as much as 450 hp up front (this is why when John Mohr performed his amazing aerobatic routine in his Stearman, it was always highlighted as being a "stock Stearman", since it still retained its original 220 hp Continental engine, unlike most of the other Stearmans performing aerobatics at airshows).

[gray eagle]

John,

I am thinking about getting the VS PT17 Vol 1 but need to know if the cockpit panel turns red like my attached picture when you turn on the VS PT17 panel and navigation lights?
I have the GAS PT75 version and when I turn on the lights, all of the panel turns red. Would like to see a pic of cockpit panel of your VS PT17 when panel lights are on for comparison.
It would of been nice if just the instruments were illuminated instead of a red panel.


Lights on panel is red:




Light off panel is black:

[WarHorse47]

The GAS cockpit and lighting seems more modern. The VS night cockpit is more authentic IMHO.



The cockpit lighting for the VS Stearman is variable. This shows the maximum lighting available. Looks better in the sim, BTW.

And yes, the soundpack from Immersive Audio for the Stearman is great. It adds a whole new dimension for both the Vertical Studios and the GAS Stearmans.

[ryanbatc]

Fantastic history lesson, I love that diagram too. I grew up in south MSP just north of Ry 12L. Later we moved to the south suburbs and you can still drive by the old munitions storage (or so I think it was) in Rosemount, MN (referred to as "Gopher" on that diagram). My late grandfather flew Aeronca Champs out of MIC and then went to war in Korea. I wonder if there is a northern half to that diagram anywhere? Anyway I think he's the person responsible for making me excited about aviation. And also my father who frequently took us to the old Post Road, and the road that used to wind through MSP airport before they closed it, and started on the new runway. I think Post road was a dirt road in the late 80's? Or maybe it wasn't I just can't recall I was a little guy then.

[dhasdell]

Thanks for those GAS cockpit pics. I am in the opposite position to gray-eagle: I am thinking about getting the GAS Stearman because although I have the VS I find the cockpit very sparse indeed - no turn and slip, no climb/descent, not even a clock, just blanks on the panel, and I simply cannot believe that's authentic.

[DaveB]

Jump into the front cockpit Dave and you'll find it slightly better appointed. Agree with you though. A clock and a turn & slip don't seem of much use in the front when the pilot is in the back.

ATB
DaveB

[dhasdell]

A clock and a turn & slip don't seem of much use in the front when the pilot is in the back.

Quite. Presumably the instructor was in the front seat, as solo flight was from the rear, so did pupils really learn to fly without even basic instruments? It's a shame, because apart from that the Stearman is a real favourite of mine.

[DaveB]

Well mate.. looking around the interweb at shots of real Stearman's.. both cockpits seem to have a full set of instruments. The only shot I found of a panel with blanks happened to be in the front which kind'a makes sense. I think VS dropped a clanger!
ATB
DaveB

[Flapsfull]

John,

I like your collection of paints for the Stearman however, I am a little confused with the different designations and variations of the Stearman. I am interested in the Navy version and I know that the ARMH
had its version and then I seen this info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing-Stearman_Model_75 and as I read it, I wonder what are the appreciable differences (if any) between the ARMY PT-17 and the
Navy N2S version. I see that the engines in each version were basically the same R-680-8 engine vs Continental R-670 engne (they sound the same any way).....

So, they (PT17 vs N2S) both were bi-wing and made by Boeing so is it just a matter of what the Army's designation is vs the Navy's N-2S that is the difference?

Gray eagle,

one of the differences between the army and navy versions is mentioned in the AVSIM review of the Golden Age Simulation Stearman model:
I can't vouch for the accuracy of the statement, but it seems the army version had a steerable tailwheel , while the navy went for a
free castoring tailwheel with a lock mechanism.

Here's a link to that review, the difference is mentioned somewhere in the middle of it.
http://avsim.com/pages/1209/GAS/Stearman.htm

Hope that helps,

Kind regards,

Oliver

[WarHorse47]

Well mate.. looking around the interweb at shots of real Stearman's.. both cockpits seem to have a full set of instruments. The only shot I found of a panel with blanks happened to be in the front which kind'a makes sense. I think VS dropped a clanger!
ATB
DaveB

Well, yes. It appears that the VS version has a few missing instruments. Still, its fun to fly and I appreciate the additional repaints by Bomber_12th.

I like the GAS as well, but it is limited on available repaints and it lacks an amphib model. There are times I like to take the VS amphibian up to Canada to explore the scenery.

--WH

[gray eagle]

I wish there was a way to do away with that red panel. I've sent a email to the GAS support questioning this and hoping for a patch or work around to eliminate the red panel.

Well, yes. It appears that the VS version has a few missing instruments. Still, its fun to fly and I appreciate the additional repaints by Bomber_12th.

I like the GAS as well, but it is limited on available repaints and it lacks an amphib model. There are times I like to take the VS amphibian up to Canada to explore the scenery.

--WH

[DaveB]

Is it not just the VC lighting? If you don't use the 'L' key for your lights.. you should be able to not switch the panel lights on and thus avoid the red panel. I wouldn't want to be flying that thing at night anyway!!

ATB
DaveB

[gray eagle]

There are two toggle switches on the right side of the cockpit; one is for instruments and the other is for nav lights. Dark night scenario, instrument switch = off = a very dark panel and no instruments visible.
Instrument lights toggled on = a very red glowing panel. So, I think this feature was wired that way but I'm interested in GAS's take on this issue and why they did it this way.

Is it not just the VC lighting? If you don't use the 'L' key for your lights.. you should be able to not switch the panel lights on and thus avoid the red panel. I wouldn't want to be flying that thing at night anyway!!

ATB
DaveB

[DaveB]

OK. To have a red pedestal light for cockpit lighting on an aircraft of this age is common but I have to say it does look a bit too bright on the GAS model. You would (in reality) be able to turn either a rheostat or the end of the light to control how much light you wanted to see.. something you obviously can't do with this model. Without having the model at hand to fiddle with, It's difficult to advise what to do but as you've opened a ticket with GAS.. you're well placed to get a good answer
ATB
DaveB

[DaveB]

Just a thought Butch..

Have a look at the panel.cfg and see if there's a Day/Night/Luminous section at the bottom. You can control (to some degree) how the panel and instruments are displayed by changing the values on each line. You'd be looking at the Night line in particular. If you have a similar model (similar lighting that is) that you like.. you could change the Night and/or Luminous sections on the GAS model panel.cfg to match. It's worth a try

ATB
DaveB

[gribouil]

Stearman N2S-3, N44JP, owned/operated by John Parish of St. Louis, Missouri. The aircraft, originally manufactured as U.S. Navy BuNo. 43576, was based (at least for a time) at NAS Ottumwa, Iowa in 1944 and 1945. The aircraft was acquired by the Parish family in 1980 and was sent to RARE Aircraft for restoration around 2009, where it was completely restored to award-winning condition, completed in 2011. The aircraft is painted in authentic U.S. Navy markings circa early 1943.


And this is the only one I really wanted to do at the start of it all, back in October...

Stearman N2S-1, N50061, owned/operated by Paul Ehlen and based at the Wings of the North Museum at Flying Cloud Airport, Eden Prairie, Minnesota. The aircraft, originally manufactured as U.S. Navy BuNo. 3347, is one of five Stearmans known to still exist that were flown by President George H. W. Bush as a cadet in the Navy. He flew this aircraft while training in the cold Minnesota winter at Wold-Chamberlain Airfield, Naval Air Station Minneapolis (modern-day KMSP), in January and early February 1943. The aircraft was sent to AirCorps Aviation for ground-up restoration in 2014, and emerged in 2015 as one of, if not the most period-authentic restored Stearmans to-date, restored to just as it was in 1943 (no electric starter (only hand-crank start) and no radios of any sort). The aircraft won "Best Stearman" at Oshkosh 2015.

Hi John,
after seeing all these wonderful biplane repaints, I wonder if you would be interesting in repainting Anthony Lynch fantastic Tiger Moth like this:



Best regards,

Stéph.

[gray eagle]

What's the procedure to climb into the front seat of the GAS Stearman 75?

Jump into the front cockpit Dave and you'll find it slightly better appointed. Agree with you though. A clock and a turn & slip don't seem of much use in the front when the pilot is in the back.

ATB
DaveB

[DaveB]

Try the 'A' key Butch.

ATB
DaveB

[mikewmac]

For anyone that doesn't have the VS PT17 Stearman Model 75 Volume 1 for FSX, the Flightstore in the UK has it on sale at the following links:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009XCQN...051_TE_3p_dp_1

or

https://www.flightstore.co.uk/dvds-f...model-75-p3154

I bought it at the former and it only cost me $13.91 including shipping to the USA.

PS: They also have some of the other VS aircraft for FSX on sale at both locations.

[gray eagle]

That didn't work for me, what did work was CTRL + Backspace keys.

Try the 'A' key Butch.

ATB
DaveB

[DaveB]

Blimey.. that's an unusual combination. No wonder you couldn't find it

ATB
DaveB

[rgatkinson]

Thank you, John. Amazing repaints - as always - that are a joy to behold.

Taff

[WarHorse47]

Attachment 46578

Well, yes. It appears that the VS version has a few missing instruments. --WH

Whoops. My bad. I wasn't looking at the front cockpit.



If it's of any interest, the VS Stearman has more animations than the GAS Stearman such as the trainee in the front cockpit, etc. Again, both are great to have.

[DaveB]

Butch..

I've just realised that the keystrokes you've been told to get into the front cockpit are default 'View Forward'. Not sure if this will help any but this is the camera view to do the same in the VS model..

[CameraDefinition.001]
Title = "FRONT Seat"
Guid = {195EAB58-9E4A-1E2A-A34C-A8D9D948F078}
Origin = Virtual Cockpit
MomentumEffect = Yes
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = False
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = False
Track = None
ShowAxis = YES
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.75
SmoothZoomTime = 2.0
ZoomPanScalar = 1.0
ShowWeather = Yes
XyzAdjust = TRUE
ShowLensFlare=FALSE
Category = Cockpit
PitchPanRate=20
HeadingPanRate=60
InitialXyz=0.0, 0.00, 1.0
InitialPbh=8, 0, 0

You might be able to work it into the GAS camera defs to give you something a little more useable
ATB
DaveB