Project Dornier Do-17z2

[smilo]

oh no, no, leave the T-ka on the fins.
the edelweiss was just an observation.
an alternative to the eagle...if desired.
apologies for the confusion.

i flew her for a little bit yesterday.
she's a very nice looking model.
as i said, i'm flying with keyboard only.
as always, it's tricky flying straight and level.
i never have been able to do it properly.
i always thought a click or two
of positive or negative trim would do the trick,
but, it never seems to work that way.
oh well, there's always auto pilot.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Thanks for your good words! I´m glad you like the plane, and I think it´s looking quite nice too. I´m glad Ivan also said it´s coming out better than expected! Actually, with the inhabited cabin and transparent nose, I suppose it is already quite an accomplishment for AF99, so I think I can count my lucky stars!

I understand now how you meant the edelweiss symbol - it´s nose-art! I´ll try and provide alternative textures then! (I´d thought you meant exchanging the initial eagle on the fins).

Re. elevator trim: At the moment I have it set at 0.5 in the .air file for the autopilot, but the intention is to lower it to 0.25 to make it more effective for manual flying. You could try and reduce it for the time being, if you like!

I re-read Ivan´s details on propeller animation in the thread he mentioned yesterday, and with the present model (textured chin, cheek and waist windows), I have enough parts to put in propeller blurs.

So, when that and the panelling is done, I´ll post an updated version for you to enjoy!
Then I´ll try and SCASM the virtual cockpit , and see which colour scheme I can supply as a second livery for the upload.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

since i don't have aired installed,
i'll patiently wait for the trim modification.
if you decide to do it.

as for the fin markings,
i'm strongly leaning toward the T-ka,
located higher and more centered,
as on the post #14 image.
of course, that's my preference
and as always, the final decision is yours.

i'm getting anxious for completion,
so i can rename it to the default Do17
and see how she looks in BOB missions.
this comment is by no means intended
to be taken as pressure to finish.
i've been waiting for this aircraft
for a decade, so, another month
or two is nothing in the overall scheme of things.
to be honest, i would have been happy
with one of your earlier versions.

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp, Smilo,

You know you can't really flight test using a keyboard.... but it IS a way to pan around and look.
Have you thought about flying with the Mouse?

Regarding my old development machine, there is the possibility that it isn't really a failing video card but is just a failing monitor.
The problem here is that I will need to buy another monitor. (I want a bigger one even if it is not a monitor problem!)
Do you know of a good model 4:3 ratio Flat Screen monitor? Most of the ones I have seen are wide screen and I don't like those.

If you still want to experiment with Transparent Windows, check out my assembly sequence for Radial Engines. I think it MIGHT work.

Regarding the emblems, keep in mind that those are Jagd Geschwader emblems and not Kampf Geschwader. (Fighter Group versus Bomber Group)
I have never been all that particular about historical unit markings as you can see by the symbol on my Macchi 202.

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo, hello Ivan,
Very enjoyable and productive, these exchanges!

I´m glad that the old development machine will still be working, Ivan! I suppose it won´t be easy to find a 3/4 ratio flat-screen monitors, though. They all seem wider, although mine is not too bad - a Samsung at 2.6/4.1, not 3/4, but I´ve seen worse.

With the Dornier 17, for the moment I´ll just do the current livery, and use the T-ka with Smilo´s recommended better positioning.

Then, regarding the transparency complications, I think I´ll opt towards keeping textured chin and cheek windows, as that is what has been working best.

There is one thing we haven´t mentioned yet: The panel! I further doctored up the P47D one, and came up with a panel that has a transparent bottom part like seen in the Do-17z2 cockpit photos, but you have to adjust the view-window to see the ground at the bottom instead of black. Here´s a screenshot! Hmmm... I should really use metric navigation instruments though, from the FW190 or the Me109 perhaps.

More later!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[aleatorylamp]

Hello again,
Here´s another pic.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

beauty...she's a keeper.
and i like the bombardier/gunner.
he fills out the crew.

i would agree with using german gauges.
no need to explain why.
i am a little bothered by the auto pilot, tho.
if you would like, i could poke around
and see what i can find.
back in the day,
i was a download gauges maniac.
where i stashed them is the question.

Ivan, what size monitor are you looking for?
okay, big as possible, right?
but what's the minimum?

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
I agree, altogether the way the plane is coming along seems quite satisfying, and I´m glad I could keep the bombardier - fortunately there was no extra need for parts.

I have just put in Ivan´s prop-blurs too! I find they do give quite a lot of ambience. Here´s 3 more screenshots.
You can tell I´m procrastinating the panelling...

One after the other, smaller details will now also be solved:
Probably the best thing for the autopilot would be to open a little window for it like you suggested for the throttles.
Of course... an old-fashioned looking autopilot would be great if it were to be had!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

since the auto pilot is rarely used,
i'm in favor of an auto pilot pop up window,
which would include adf.
i recall a set of ap indicator lights
located on the panel to let one know
if ap is activated and which functions are engaged.
it's kinda handy.

question; do you want to keep all gauges stock,
or, are "after market", acceptable?

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
OK, I´ll try and put what you mention into the panel using an extra communiactions/navigation window.

I was actually planning on keeping to stock + FSFS gauges, for the sake of simplicity, unless you have a more attractive suggestion.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

i was able to find a couple candidates last night,
but, nothing yet from the period.
also, they're from the allies and hard to read.
...still searching.

i do have a very basic ap setup from hubba.
it has a heading adjustment,
but, none for altitude.
what you do is manually attain the desired attitude,
engage the auto pilot altitude function and it's locked in.
personally, i prefer an altitude adjustment "knob",
but, this works in a pinch.
there is also the ap indicator lights i mentioned.
this is a very handy feature for quick reference.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Granted, the existing autopilot does look a bit too modern... but the AP indicator lights seem rather appetizing!
Maybe you could let me know where to get it.

For the rest, I think I´ll just put in stock gauges for the moment, and continue with the panelling.
Once that gives me a sense of achievement, I´ll decide about the panel and I´ll get back to you on the subject.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

sounds good to me.

probably the best place to get the ap lights
would be from me. i'll take care of that, shortly.
unfortunately, i don't remember the author,
so, that will have to be noted in your read me.
while experimenting with them today,
i noticed, with the proper panel 3d rendering,
they are mouse clickable....BONUS

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Wow! Mouse clickable AND proper panel 3d rendering is great!
With FS98 gauges like the autopilot it happens that 3d rendering has to be switched off to make it stay mouseable.
OK, then, we´ll get to it when the time comes.

I MUST pull myself together and get down to the panelling on the textures!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

attached is the auto pilot gauge i spoke of.
sorry, i had to zip it to attach.
unzip and drop the AP1.gau into your cfs1 gauges folder.
add this line to the Do-17z2 panel.cfg
at the bottom of the [window00] entries,

gauge25=AP1, 80,390,30,80

save changes and close the panel.cfg
fire up cfs and go fly the Do17.
the ap indicator lights and switches
will be next to the throttle quadrant.

first, click the top switch to activate ap master.
clicking ALT will set to the current altitude.
SPD needs a ap console to function
HDG is set to current heading
clicking LVL disengages HDG and levels wings.

as i said, this is a basic unit,
but, it works.
i perfer fine tuning altitude and heading,
especially on bomb runs,
but that requires a more
complex system of gauges.

clicking the lower right +- HDG bug
on the stock
cessna_182.directional_gyro.gau
is a good starting point.

just for fun, add this line to the panel.cfg
right below the line mentioned above,

gauge26=cessna_182.directional_gyro, 110,390,80,80

save and close the panel.cfg
and go fly.
remember, the ap master and HDG
must be engaged for the heading bug
changes to take effect.

who says you need a stick to fly?
maybe in a fighter, but, not in a bomber.
straight and level is where it's at.

[smilo]

ooops, my mistake...
3d renering must be disabled for clicking gauges
just like in fs98...sorry for the bad information.

[smilo]

hello Stephan,
i know you're busy, but,
would you do me a favor?
please, zip and attach a copy
of your current panel.bmp,
a copy of the current panel.cfg
and a photo of a Do17 panel.
i've got a hankering to play
with some gauge alignment.
axis gauges, of course.
thanks in advance

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Yes of course! Here it is: The panel folder with ALL its contents.
Attached are 2 photos of the cabin interior. Although they refer to the older Do-17e used in the Spanish Civil War, they give an idea of what the cabin looks like.
Thanks indeed for your collaboration!

Ooops! I just saw you had posted the AP gauge - thanks! It´s early in the morning... I´ve just got up and hadn´t noticed.
This kind of attachment has to be zipped - no problem.

The new AP gauge is really cool - I like it. Much more fitting!

Update:
I changed all the gauges except for the engine ones for Bf109 and FS190 gauges, and they look much better, of course.
I also changed the Throttle bitmap to the wording on the FW190 thrust lever bitmap, and the Brake handle bitmap to read "Bremse".

Here is the new attachment with axis gauges and German wording on the throttles. The panel bitmaps are also corrected - I have rubbed out the autopilot panel at the top. Here´s a screenshot too!

...and the German twin throttle gauge itself... Tell me if anything is amiss!

Note: Don´t forget to pull down the view window with the mouse so that the bottom of the panel bitmap shows the ground - it would immitate the front glazing seen from the inside cockpit looking a bit downwards under the instrument panel.

The panel is a bit simple and there´s room for improvement - including the instrument distribution, but it´s a start...

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

it's kinda funny, Stephan,
your getting up about the time
i'm going to bed.
i usually get up in the middle of the night.
(the old man bladder, thing)
am up for a couple hours,
then, back to bed.
for a few more hours of sleep.
ahh, the joys of retirement.

thanks for zipping things up.
i'll have a look later.

about the black bottom,
scroll to the bottom of the panel.cfg
change
SIZE_Y=5000 to
SIZE_Y=6144 and save
6144 is the highest you can go.
any higher will result in CFS Module Error.
also notice that changing this number,
changes the gunsite elevation.

i hope your day goes well

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Thanks for the tip on adjusting the window - it did the trick!

The joys of retirement indeed! I´ve retired recently too. It´s great! Other people I know who don´t have hobbies here really suffer when the machine stops.

Just to keep a little discipline, I´ve kept one hour or two from Mondays to Thrusdays with private English or German classes.
The rest is airplanes! - apart from cleaning, shopping and cooking during the week.

I suppose I have to justify my existence somehow, otherwise I´ll get a revolution in the house.
My wife and 2 girls are busy at school all morning, and the house cannot turn into a disaster area!!

Now it´s time to help in the kitchen for lunch and I´ll continue later.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp, Smilo,

I hope you guys realise that the cockpit photographs that you have attached are not of a Dornier 17Z.
The features to note are the Starboard side cheek windows and the lack of a central brace in the nose window.
They are of a much earlier Dornier 17.
I can probably figure out the model if you really want to know which one.

I wish I knew as much about panel setups as you do, Smilo.
That is the current hang up with my BV 141B model.
There is no doubt that I can create another pop-up auxiliary panel, but I have no idea what most of the panel parameters mean.
Need to do a lot of reading.....

If you want, I will look for a good image of a Dornier 17Z panel.

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
Thanks for the info - I couldn´t find a Do17-z2 cockpit pic. The 2 pics I found claimed to be from a Spanish Civil War Do17-E, but that seems wrong too!

I´m still looking, so if you happen to find a good pic, do let us know!

Anyway, I´m only aiming for a practical panel, similar enough to the real one to provide a bit of feeling or ambience.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

for starters, thank you Ivan
for the compliment. BUT,
you need to know,
i'm not as informed as you might think.
true, i've spent a lot of time dinking with panels,
but, i've forgotten more than i remember.
i did make some notes after panel entries,
but, i will need to find them.
all i can say is, if you have a question,
please ask. what's the worse thing that can happen?
who knows, i might have or can find the answer.


yes, i noticed the lack of center brace
in the original screen shot, but, let it go.
at this point, my main photo interest
is in gauge placement.
i prefer the standard,
centered six gauge set up,
but, the standard was not implemented
until after WWII, so the question,
as always, arises, historical accuracy,
or, ease of personal flying?
i prefer ease of flying.

here's a thought, if someone has cfs2 installed,
download the model Rami posted the screen shot of
and have a look at its panel.
you don't have to copy it verbatim,
but, there might be an idea or two to be had.

[Ivan]

Hello Smilo, Aleatorylamp,

Here is a Dornier 215 control panel.
I believe it should be pretty close but there is the issue that the 215 would have coolant temperature gauges instead of cylinder head temperature.
Other than that, the appearance I believe is good enough.
I am still looking but have not found the Do 17Z panel yet.
Still many places to look.

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
Thanks! You are a fountain of information, I must say.
It looks very close to the Do17-z2 cockpit - they don´t appear to have changed much in there to make the Do215.

Its pouring down today, but we have no potatoes, so it´s off to the farmer´s market now, but I hope to do some work on the Schnellbomber this afternoon!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp