Project Dornier Do-17z2

[smilo]

hello Dave, i'm waiting patiently
for my slug bait internet
to buffer your video so i can watch it.

academy award, is it?
sheesh, i didn't know there was a category for
the best invisible extra in an epic film.

Stephan, working with the band has it's pluses and minuses.
mostly pluses because i like the band.
as with most live bands, it's a constant battle
between instrument and vocal volume levels.
as always, the instruments drown out the vocals.
if the vocals are turned up enough to be heard,
then, there is risk of feedback and/or distortion.
and, there you have my job in a nutshell.
basically, an exercise in futility.

[No Dice]

Well I think we all stopped counting downloads a long time ago..
But I do remember the days when..
Yes, a huge project...yet really no different than everyone elses
Takes just as much time to create an airplane as it does to create
a few airbases with objects...

But for the record.....1613 downloads and 111,454 hits on the CFS2 forums.
Please understand that you have to download over 28 sections and then the
updates and extras, plus it is a stand alone install, so you have to have CFS2
installed in 2 locations on your computer. So you really have to be interested
in the era. Setting it up will take at least a six pack of beer or a pot of coffee.

WE all do what we do because it is an addictive hobby that just will not go away.

[Ivan]

Hello All,

As they say, if you give a man a Hammer, then everything starts to look like a Nail.
I obviously have a new hammer but am still polishing and sharpening it. (Are you SUPPOSED to sharpen HAMMERS?)

With my newly developed ability to program working Gauges, I have been contemplating MANY grandiose schemes and purposes for these gauges.
I have actually been thinking about one idea for about a week or so but it seems appropriate to describe the idea at this time.
An Turn and Bank Indicator can obviously track sideslip,
An Altimeter can indicate altitude and I believe there is actually a number for distance Above Ground Level.
A Speedometer can indicate Airspeed, either True or Indicated.....

Now what if we combine all these values in a gauge with a moving reticle to indicate the ground impact location of a bomb dropped at that time???

Carl Norden did this with an analog computer for his famous Norden Bombsight.....

I wonder if I can do the same with a Norden Bomsight Gauge?

There is a bunch of stuff that has to come before, but the idea seems quite feasible at this point.
(I DO have a wild imagination, don't I?)
I suppose I should also program an autopilot gauge before that.

Perhaps I can do a simpler version for a SBD Dauntless or Ju 87 Stuka before that?

BTW, Smilo....
In case you hadn't come to this conclusion already, it looks like there will be additional delays in my B-25 Mitchell project.

Any interesting thoughts on the subject?

- Ivan.

[smilo]

i have a digital/hud gauge called real alt.
i believe it is from gerry beckwith.
as the name implies, it is the current altitude
from the ground, not sea level.

i also have a bombing gauge
that does exacly what you described.
no clicks or stuff like that.
it's been years since i've used it,
so i want to test it before sending it.
as i recall, this gauge was so accurate,
it made me feel like i was cheating.
i called it, my gnat's ass bombing gauge.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo, Hello Ivan,
Sounds like the next best thing than sitting on the bomb itself!
No need for manned flying bombs then! Those were invented to
kill off superfluous humans - or give them a chance for some
heavy partying they couldn´t have had otherwise, and they
wouldn´t care what happened after the party. Some dopes...
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

We are German engineers! (....at least for now.)
Think Fritz X instead of Dr. Strangelove!

Gnats A$$ Bombsight..... Been done before.... See what I meant about being a couple decades late?


Hello Smilo,

Ivan is meticulous.... Gnats A$$ Bombsight.
Am I that stuck in a pattern?
I guess so. I just don't know any other way to work.

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
Our philosophy teacher at school ingrained the concept "It doesn´t matter what you do, but how you do it" into us... so it´s a reason to try for Gnat´s A$$ things... although I tend to try and balance it out with practicality and funtionality - really only an excuse for my impatience.

Update: With this in mind, I put some gauge pictures on the back of the radial engine texture for the triangular bit of inclined cabin-floor in the Virtual Cockpit, which although it is not a copy of the panel because of the cumbersome triangle shape, it does look good and livens up the Vcockpit a bit. I´ll re-SCASM and send a screenshot.

I had to look up Dr. Strangelove and Fritz X to document myself, and didn´t know whether to laugh or be horrified. ...just joking...

I´d also forgotten to mention the concept of the glory in self sacrifice for one´s country... Was it all a con? They were rather serious about all this back then... I wonder. ...but at least Peter Sellers was totally hilarous!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

I do most of this stuff because it educates me in one of my areas of interest.
Sometimes something useful to others comes from this education. Sometimes I build because I want to own one.

Regarding texturing pieces for the Virtual Cockpit, keep in mind that what is in the real model does not need to appear in the interior view and what is in the interior view does not need to appear in the rest of the model.

For the Dr. Strangelove reference, you really want to look for Slim Pickens rather than Peter Selllers.... (That was the Bomb Rider!)

The concept of self sacrifice for the Vaterland is much older:
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

- Ivan.

[smilo]

yes...slim pickens riding the nuke like a bronco.
waving his cowboy hat and yelling, YAHOO!
classic stuff.

are you guys aware, you can do that,
more or less, in cfs?
go into settings, customize controls,
assignments and scroll down to bomb view.
go ahead and assign a keystroke and OK out.
go fly, drop a bomb and press the bomb view key.
you get to ride the bomb to the target.
fun stuff.

today is another busy day on the home front,
so, not a lot is getting done on the panel.
sorry for the delay....dang home stuff

[aleatorylamp]

Hello lads!
How entertaining, apart from being a busy beehive!
So there´s a bomb view?! It´s Slim Pickens all the way!! Somebody had a sense of humour when they wrote CFS1.
I like it more every day!

Relax Smilo, the panel will be done one day and the Do-17Z will be uploaded. The more I think about it, the less I feel like uploading it quickly and only provisionally equipped.

Here´s the screenshot of the VCockpit now, with a texture "dashboard" on a front panel of the flight deck.
I´ve kept the older model without this just in case it were to be better, but I think this one looks better.

Ivan, I gather that any calls entered into the transformcall thing that corrects the pilot´s viewpoint and calls the Cockpit, affects only the VCockpit, and this looks like it´s working: (I had a good teacher!!!) - I think I quite like it too!

Update: 2 new extra lines for Dashboard and gun in the COCKPIT section.

:COCKPIT
CALL ( :L006564 ); Nose cover
CALL ( :L00351E ); Dashboard
CALL ( :L00696E ); Gun
CALL32 ( :L0113AC ); Canopy frame
CALL ( :L002EFE ); Cabin main floor
CALL32 ( :L00E35A ); Bombardier body
CALL32 ( :L00D79C ); Bombardier head
CALL ( :L0026FE ); Cabin rear floor
CALL32 ( :L00D154 ); Rear Gunner head
Return

"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" - I had to look up Horace´s quote too! Someone had it sussed out how to brainwash people already in those times...

Update: I´ve corrected the Gunbutt bit and updated the attached screenshot as I´m running out of attachment quote...

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

You probably have the right idea if it is working. If you are not correct, you would have probably noticed pretty quickly.
Just to reiterate:

Interior View?
Yes: Call MAINSTR
No: Call MAINIVC

:MAINIVC ; Main Interior Virtual Cockpit
TransformCall (MAINSTR) ; This part is really optional. You don't need if enough stuff is called from "Cockpit"
TransformCall (COCKPIT)
Return

:COCKPIT ; Either Cockpit Bleeds or the entire V-Cockpit
<Direct Calls to pieces as you have done>
Return

:MAINSTR ; Main Start
<Code for the entire exterior model>
Return


Hello Smilo,

How about this for "Riding the Bomb"?

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
My daughter was intrigued looking at the SCASM listing and actually understood what the general structure was doing, calling functions and so forth! Lucky girl...

OK, confirmed that it´s working OK, and that I understand what´s going on.
I just updated my previous post and changed the screenshot. I´m slowly maxing out on attachments...
So: Shall I just delete the first TransformCall instruction to MAINSTR as it could be superfluous because of all the pieces called in the COCKPIT Call ?
There are 9 Parts. The thing is I didn´t make anything as "Interior View", because it has to be seen from outside too. The inside only had to be sequenced properly from the pilot´s view.
:MAINIVC
TransformCall( :MAINSTR 91 -390 -1560
0.00000 00 0.00000 00 0.00000 00 )
TransformCall( :COCKPIT 91 -390 -1560
0.00000 00 0.00000 00 0.00000 00 )
Return
:COCKPIT
9 CALLS sequenced here (see previous post) - no use repeating everything, to save space...
Return
;*** Start of Main Aircraft Code ***
:MAINSTR
etc...

I always thought the BAKA or OHKA had a rather nice design, despite its rather gory concept... The V1 looked much more sinister, with the pulse-jet tail pipe mounted on it looking much like a huge cannon!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

well, it's tough to do,
but, i have to admit
i've made a mistake.
yes, folks...it's true.
in my defense,
it's been a very long time
since i actually watched
a bomb fall all the way
to impact with the ground.

all kidding aside, keying bomb view
does not put you on or in the bomb
as i inferred in the post above.
what you will really see is the bomb
from what would be described as
spot or chase view.
my apologies for the misinformation.

now, about the gnats ass bombing gauge.
i've tested it today and have proven to myself
that, yes indeed, it is extremely accurate.
especially, when used in conjunction
with the bomb trainer entry added to the aircraft.cfg

first, the bomb trainer puts a multi colored X
on the ground (or water) under the aircraft.
and then, adds a red bulls eye where the released bomb
will impact the ground.

when a switch is toggled on the ga bomb sight,
the view automatically looks down at the multi colored X.
your job is to align the flight path of the aircraft,
so the X marks the spot, at which point,
you release the bomb...no small task,
but, with practice, one can become
a quite deadly cfs bomb aimer.

of course, it's another story altogether,
when fighters are buzzing about
trying to shoot you down
and flak is exploding all around.

now, for my minor dilemma.
as i may have stated before,
i have many useful gauges,
but, most are not of the period.
many are digital readouts
and some are also mousable.

my question to you is,
do you want a bomb aimer panel
with these "updated" gauges,
which make the bomb run easier,
or, do you want a panel with "period" gauges,
which are few and far between?
and frankly, make an accurate bomb run
next to impossible?
or, should i say, the heck with it,
and do what i damn well please.

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

You really CAN'T delete the TransformCall to MAINSTR because if you did, the Engines, Propellers, Wings, Tail, and all the other pieces that are NOT called in :COCKPIT would vanish.

....Unless you put all the pieces you want into :COCKPIT first.

Your call as to how to handle it.


Regarding Ohka,

You should watch some of the Japanese animated films related to WW2 equipment and see if you come to the same conclusion as I have.
There are so many fantasy versions it is amazing. Ohka have become interceptors, the Shinden flies operationally and even the battleship Yamato has been revived to defend the Earth against space aliens.

- Ivan.

[Ivan]

Hello Smilo,

Is it possible to use the G.A$$ WITHOUT a Bomb Trainer setting?

I don't ever recall using the Bomb Trainer but it sounds like a very good way to test out the "Norden" Bombsight idea.
My version would be mostly analog.

What kinds of Gauges do you need for a bomb aimer panel that exist only in modern digital form?

- Ivan.

[smilo]

yes, you can use the bomb site gauge
without the bomb trainer entry.
all it really does, is look down
to the area where the bomb
will impact the ground,
no matter what altitude or air speed.
the problem is, without it,
there is no indicator as to when
and where to release the bomb.
i believe the bomb trainer calculates
the air speed and altitude deflection.

add this to the bottom of the combatfs.cfg
[CHEATS]
bomb_trainer=1

as for gauges,
a usable auto pilot is essential.
one with adjustable altitude and heading.
not just alt and hdg hold buttons.
heading adjust is especially important.
i have several, but, most, if not all,
have digital readouts with old looking bitmaps.

the advantage to digital readouts is,
obviously, accuracy, readability,
and ease of adjustment.

the bendix king adf slave
and the bendix king radio ap gauges are handy,
but, the bitmaps are modern.
i also like the digital real alt
and have several trim gauges.
it's also nice to have a bomb counter.

granted, i can get by without
most of these gauges, but, as i said,
many are handy to have.

we've also used a programable gps gauge
which was used as a beacon
to direct us to the mission target.

[Ivan]

Hello Smilo,

What you just told me then is that the Gnats A$$ Bombsight only is a "Look Down" gauge and doesn't really do anything else.
The real function is from the Bomb Trainer Cheat.

My idea was to program a gauge which would do the following:
1. Display a Line of Flight on the screen which indicates with a point showing where you currently are
2. Display where a Bomb dropped at the current time would impact the ground
3. Give 5, 10, and 20 or 30 second projected impact points which can be used to line up on the target.
4. Alter the scale depending on Altitude, Speed.
5. Move the scale depending on sideslip or yaw.

Now I just need to figure out what a "Look Down" keyboard command actually is.

Regarding other stuff, I need to figure out what an autopilot of the period really looked like and what would be a logical way to control it.

Now do you think I am being a bit ambitious?

Getting Late. Need to get to bed.

- Ivan.

P.S. Do send the GnAss Gauge when you get a chance.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan, Hello Smilo,

I can´t say much towards the bomber´s panel and instruments, so I´ll leave that up to you!
It sounds very interesting and ambitious - very good!

The FW 200 Condor Panel has a German AP behind the yoke. Here´s a screenshot for the looks.
For you to see how it works I´d have to upload the plane as it is with its FS98 .air file and current gauges, as I haven´t had time to change anything yet.

A small glitch in the SCASM correction - the Animated Bombardier´s head duplicates over the SCASMed fixed head, so the easiest is of course would be to eliminate the animation. I´ll see...

Update: I can only find one instance of the Bombardier´s head in the listing, so I gather the animation to be called is found elsewhere in the listing, and would have to be done in a different way. If it´s too complicated to explain I´ll leave out the head-turning-with-rudder animation gimmick.

Re: TransformCall MAINSTR - OK, I´ll keep it in where it is now, as one of the 2 TransformCall instructions. I was trying to figure out how to call MAINSTR from COCKPIT, but it´s too complicated for my brain.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

hello Ivan,
on my keyboard, look down is Shift+number pad 5.
(look in settings, customize controls to assign)

you can also look down in increments with Shift+Enter.
Shift+Enter is used in the clicks bombing system.
the number of clicks depends on altitude.

the ga bomb site gauge does that for you
with one toggle of the switch
and goes back to level view with one toggle.

it would be cool if the drop point X
could be toggled off and on,
instead of being always there
when entered into the combatfs.cfg.

as for the line of attack,
i would suggest a dotted line,
so as not to obscure the view
of the approaching target.

all in all, to answer your question,
"Now do you think I am being a bit ambitious?"
maybe, but, if you're interested in the project,
why not give it a try? who knows?
i think i could find time to beta test.

hello Stephan,
i am curious about the fw200 gauges.
would it be possible to zip them up
and email them to me?
the auto pilot, radio, adf and the beige gauge
at the top of the panel are of particular interest.
also, please include a copy of the panel.cfg
thanks in advance.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Yes, will do!
For the moment, here is V9 Version of the Schnellbomber attached, as an updated platform for all the testing you need to do.
It has my provisional panel, and Ivan´s new gauges.
The Virtual Cockpit view and contained elements are corrected but for the moment will not move the Bombardier´s head with the rudder. I couldn´t find the solution to it, but it´isn´t important, at least not for now anyway.
Hello Ivan,
Yes, definitely I´d ecourage your plan. What if it works?
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

Thanks for the email. Am still feeling pretty poor this morning so I will hold off on looking for a while.

Regarding the SCASMing of the Bombardier's Head:
You obviously found the actual code that generates the head.
Don't call it directly.
Figure out where else in your SCASM code it is being called.
If you trace back far enough, you will hit a Rudder Control comment of some kind along with something (probably IfVarRange) that is also doing a TransformCall to the code you found for the Bombardier Head.

THAT is the label you want to set a call to from your COCKPIT routine.

It may sound complicated but it really is as easy as a direct call to the B. Head.

Hello Smilo,

Last night, I found a C-1 Autopilot as typically used in US Bombers, but need to understand what it does and how to use it.
As I see it, Digital Readouts like the old Automotive Odometers are fine. LED digital readouts are not.
This really is kind of ambitious for someone who has not ever programmed more than a simple dial gauge and just modified the SDK code to do it.

- Ivan.

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
Thanks a lot! OK, I found the Rudder reference to the Bombardier´s head - it´s the only Rudder one in the model.
So I´ll call that routine instead of the fixed head one. Should be easy - what fun!
I still have the AFX and the aircraft model of the animated-head version, only the hinge is on the side of the neck, but that´s easily corrected and re-SCASmed. I expect it won´t alter any of the Call Labels as it usually does if you add or take away something.

Your explanation once again is very good: This is the Routine I have to call, so I can´t go wrong.

:L00D70E
IfVarRange( :L00DD54 7A 0 32000 )
; Skips to :L00DD54 if Airspeed (in Knots) not in range 0 to 32000
IfVarRange( :L00D792 7A 0 31999 )
; Skips to :L00D792 if Airspeed (in Knots) not in range 0 to 31999
IfVarRange( :L00DD54 4C -32768 32767 )
; Skips to :L00DD54 if Rudder Position (-16384 to 16383) not in range -32768 to 32767
TransformCall( :L00D746 68 367 1600
0.00000 00 162.40936 00 0.00000 00 )
Jump( :L00DD54 )
:L00D746
TransformCall( :L00D75E 0 0 0
0.00000 00 0.00000 00 0.00000 00 )
Return

Just now I also looked into the AT9-Jeep, and it´s also in there.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

thank you, Stephan, i've got it,
along with the emailed fw200 panel.
now, if i can just steal a few hours.

by the way, while playing with bomb drop,
i noticed something a little odd.
load her up with bombs
and take her up to altitude.
jump into chase mode
and look at her from the side.
now, release a few bombs.
do you see anything odd?

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
OK, I´ll look.
I got the animated head working, though! Das ist gut!

Update: I threw some bombs looking from the outside side-view but
noticed nothing strange except that there are no bomb bay doors.
Give us a clue?

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

[smilo]

maybe, it's something with my rig.
the bombs seem to be squirting
out of the tail section,
instead of out of the main fuselage
where i would think the bomb bay is.