About guns punch...

A couple of days ago I was playing a series of Quick Combats, and I was a bit of amazed about the hitting power of some of the guns in the aircraft I was using, but then, when I flew a combat in a different plane with the same weapons, I didn't get similar results.

I decided to have a look at the dp files of many of the aircraft and ,following instructions of the readme in DPED by Yusaku Homma, specifically the guns section.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Homma

[Dice] is a damage dice. "1d1*" means unit of a dice. If a value following the "1d1*" is larger, the damage will occur to a larger area. Ordinary values are followings.
7.7mm = 8
12.7mm = 13
20 mm = 20
30 mm = 30
90LB Rocket=3000
110LB Bomb =6000

An explosion warhead value may 1.4 to 3 times as big.

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If I understand it right, the hitting power of a gun is stablished mainly by this dice field. Well, in most dp files this numbers were absolutely diferent for the same weapons: a Hispano Suiza 20mm gun in the 1% Hurricane MkIIc has a dice value of 1d1*71.9 (a real killer :icon_eek:), while a 20mm gun in the YAS Spitfire MkVb has a value of 1d1*26. Other values like Rate of Fire, Range or Muzzle Velocity are very often also different.

Any comments anyone?. I am just arrived, so I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has so I'd be happy to read anything the experts have to say about that matter :jump:.

Yeah, we've covered this quite a bit. But here's the skinny again: there's no single hard rule used by EVERY designer. And you're talking about two different designers.

One builder uses his best guess and another uses different guesstimates. In the end, its a user call - use whatever you want as the dice, ROF, range or velocity. If you're the anal type -- LOL - and insist on something resembling a "structured" approach, use the Armaments drop menu in DPEd to apply the so-called "historical" weapons parameters provided by the programmer of DPed. He installed his own guesstimates into the ARMS_WW2.DAT file located in the ARMS_DAT folder. This will give you the ability to inject more uniformity into your dp's.

One other thing is that in the DP file, if you are flying a P-47 it is suppose
to have 8 guns. If you only have 2 gunstations (one right and one left)
You will only be firing Bullets that do damage from 2 guns, the other 6 guns will be firing tracers only and will do NO damage. You have to have
a gunstation for each gun to have the maxamum hitting power.
ckissling

ckissling

I did not know that about the gun stations....I have always given each individual gun its own gun line and gun station simply because I find it easier to work with each gun independently. Now I know another reason to do it my way.

OBIO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckissling

One other thing is that in the DP file, if you are flying a P-47 it is suppose
to have 8 guns. If you only have 2 gunstations (one right and one left)
You will only be firing Bullets that do damage from 2 guns, the other 6 guns will be firing tracers only and will do NO damage. You have to have
a gunstation for each gun to have the maxamum hitting power.
ckissling

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I HATE that though! :banghead: With each gun having it's own station then every gun fires at the same exact time. It sounds and looks horrible.

There was a lot of discussion about this going back ages. Most of us around then ended up using the settings from a published chart of gun parameters from the 1% people. Bit vague about where the parameter list is now (I probably still have it somewhere). Some people didn't like using it because it would "uneven" things out when they were playing online, with different people in the same game with different gun damage parameters.

Corsair
There is a simple way to fix the way your tracers look. In the gunstation
of each gun, change the rounds per minute like this. 0.08-next gun=0.077-next gun=0.086-next gun=0.074-ect-ect-on & on.

This will stagger your tracers like a real aircraft-remember 6 or 8 guns
few fired at the same rate of fire(rounds per minute), out of 100 guns
only about 40% fired at the same rate, the rest were a little higher or lower.ckissling

Found some stuff for you if you are interested....see attachments. Check your PM's, can't upload zip file here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckissling

One other thing is that in the DP file, if you are flying a P-47 it is suppose
to have 8 guns. If you only have 2 gunstations (one right and one left)
You will only be firing Bullets that do damage from 2 guns, the other 6 guns will be firing tracers only and will do NO damage. You have to have
a gunstation for each gun to have the maxamum hitting power.
ckissling

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Sorry old chap, gonna have to disagree here...i've had an entirely different experience. All guns do the job in these types of dp gunstation setups (btw, the stock Hellcat and Corsair have this too). How do i know all the guns work? Well, lets say you have six guns with 100 rounds each, all setup in two gunstations, e.g. Left Cannons (3 guns) and Right Cannons (3 guns). You also have an ammo counter gauge showing a full load of 600 rds at the start of a fight. Using your logic, after i complete 200 rounds, i should see no further damage inflicted by my remaining guns, since the primaries are now out of real ammo. If i continue pressing the fight, the remaining 400 rounds will still continue to count down in the ammo counter gauge and tracers will still fly, but those four remaining guns are just barkin' dogs with no bite. That's not true...

A gunstation is just that - a gun-STATION only...a location containing only half of a gun's parameters. Acording to the sim engine, the rest of the picture is in the Guns section below the Station. That's where the ammo count, heading/pitch harmonics and fine location offsets are completed. And the sim recognizes and uses every gun in a station, according to my victims.

Thank you for your answers, that was the kind of comments I wanted to see :mixedsmi:.

I've spent a few hours changing the fighter gun values in my PTO install, to see how it worked if I used a standard pattern following the mentioned table by Mr Homma as a base and a few rough data available in on the web regarding guns ROF, MV etc. Still have to go through a lot more testing, but it's definitely harder to bring down an enemy plane. I just hope that I don't need to check and change aircraft protection accordingly :banghead::costumes:.

A few years ago I modified all my .DP files to Avhistory 1% gun characteristics and adapted the DPED arms.dat file accordingly. When I modify a DP file I only have to use the built-in weapon database within the program to get the right weapon ballistics and hitting power (by Avhistory - 1% standard that is). I put in attachment the modified arms.dat file I use. I hope I don't breach any copyright or credit rule by doing so. You'll have just to rename the file "arms.dat" to use it with DPED.

Just one quick question about DPEd... I've just found that all .dp files I edited with it have had their hardpoints reseted to 0,0,0. Is it a bug in the program or is it not related to DPEd?

Bearcat 241
I feel that only a gun that has it's OWN gunstation will have impact damage due to the fact that only it has the damage quote and the
bullet weight quote in it's line of discription of actions.
ckissling

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckissling

Bearcat 241
I feel that only a gun that has it's OWN gunstation will have impact damage due to the fact that only it has the damage quote and the
bullet weight quote in it's line of discription of actions.
ckissling

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Rgr that CK.. but we gotta rise above the "feel" here to get to the fact. When dealing with multiple guns on a single station, its like i hinted before - the damage dice, ammo weight and other values in the top half of the equation are equally attributed to each gun in that station, not just the 1st one. They all share this data equally.

Here's another test to prove my point: Set up a six-gun pack exactly like i described above, but this time give the "primary" guns only 100 rds each and give the others 200 rds each. That's 1000 rds total. Using again your theory, when you expend 600 rds (100 for each gun), there should be no more damage done by the "dummy" guns as they fire off the remaining 400 rds, just noise and tracers. Sorry again, but...that dog don't hunt my friend... :mixedsmi:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JapLance

Just one quick question about DPEd... I've just found that all .dp files I edited with it have had their hardpoints reseted to 0,0,0. Is it a bug in the program or is it not related to DPEd?

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No bugs...you're just learning the ropes and likely making a few freshman mistakes somewhere in editing and saving - i did too in my early days. But just in case you're right about bugs, try my install. Its version 1.20. Delete the '.pdf' file extension to make it a *.zip and overwrite your current install with the files.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearcat241

No bugs...you're just learning the ropes and likely making a few freshman mistakes somewhere in editing and saving - i did too in my early days. But just in case you're right about bugs, try my install. Its version 1.20. Delete the '.pdf' file extension to make it a *.zip and overwrite your current install with the files.

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That's what I first thought, but I could make such mistake once, twice and even three times, but not with about forty planes I edited this last days.

My version of DPEd is 1.21 instead of 1.20, I'll give it a try, thanks Bearcat :ernae:.

Problem solved... It was Windows Regional Configuration, here is Spain we use "," as decimal point, and DP files use ".". Stupid mistake on my part :banghead:.

Been away for several days but here you go JL. I think some of this is already posted. Just rename the file to "zip" after downloading. Gun charts are listed per country operator.

demorier ~ I've been looking for this data several YEARS w/o success. Thank you for posting it here.

Now to find some "extra time" to rewrite my DPs.... maybe after my nightly self-taught GMax lesson....

SC
:kilroy:

I'm just doing new CFS install after long time and will greatfully use it, as I put new planes into aircarft folder one by one .
I've already looked in 1% Netwings site for this file but there's none.

:ernae: