I want to make a DX10 Lake Renegade for FSX..

...the question is, can I? And am I being realistic?


I've been flying MS Flight Simulators since I had a 486DX2-50 computer. Out of all of those years of virtual flying, my favorite plane by far has been the Lake Renegade. I've flown more miles than I can count in John Woodward's good ole FS2002 plane. I then flew her in FS2004, and even FSX.

Until now that is. I recently did the DX10 dance following the Avsim doc to the letter, and my FSX has taken on a whole new life. It's so nice that I don't want to ever go back to FSX DX9. However, the one largest problem with DX10 is that lots of my planes no longer work, their models and textures just aren't compatible. And I'm honestly OKAY with this.

Except for the loss of my Lake Renegade. It astonishes me that even today there isn't a DX10 compatible version of this awesome amphibian. And I'm not willing to give her up. I've considered simply buying Addon Converter X so I can fly John's faithful aircraft yet again, but honestly she is starting to really show her age. That's to be expected for a ten year old model I guess. It's really time for an update to the old girl.

So, I've made a decision. Since no one else seems like they are going to do it, I've decided to try my best to make a DX10 ready Lake Renegade for FSX.

I've never so much as repainted an aircraft for any flight sim, let alone modeled one from the ground up. I have a 3-way plan view of the Renegade (admittedly not a great one), I have a directory full of photos (again, not good enough IMHO but they will have to do), I've installed the SDK and gotten Gmax installed and configured. I've been going through a few Gmax tutorials but honestly I'm still having difficulty getting my plan box set up correctly. And I don't even want to do this for a living, or for money, I fully plan to just put it up for free if I ever get it done so that everyone (especially me!) can enjoy a good looking Lake Renegade in FSX with DX10. But this is harder than I expected it to be. I'm beginning to wonder how much time invested I'm looking at here to get her done.


Is it even feasible for a newbie like me to teach themselves how to model aircraft and make a flyable workable plane of decent to excellent quality? Or have I bitten off more than I can chew?

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Originally Posted by Mengy

Is it even feasible for a newbie like me to teach themselves how to model aircraft and make a flyable workable plane of decent to excellent quality? Or have I bitten off more than I can chew?

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Welcome to the Outhouse! :wavey:

That is a question that only you can answer. If you want it bad enough you will find a way to make it happen. Many years ago I wanted to be able to fly the planes I grew up with in the sim. I knew that the only way that would happen was if I did it on my own. I devoted years of trial and error in the process, but in the end I got what I wanted, and with the knowledge I acquired along the way I have gone on to make many other planes that interested me. Back when I was getting going I was in the group that was figuring out the specifics of modeling for FSX. Much of what we learned along the way can be found at the FreeFlightDesign forums.

Be sure to look through the design forum here, and for the most active forum currently go visit FSDeveloper.

No matter what, at least take a shot at it. You have nothing to lose but some spare time. :icon_lol:

Anyone can learn to model using GMax, Max or even FSDS, given enough time and effort is given over to the process. It is after all primarily a mechanical process. There is a tremendous amount of learning involved.

There is no such thing as a Staples "EASY" button to press... :pop4:

What no amount of wishing or desire will ever deliver however is the actual artistic talent that differentiates a "good" model from an "excellent" model. Even after nearly two decades of effort I remain at most an accomplished mechanic, so have resigned myself to the "fit and finish" and "gauge/panel/systems" developement department.

That said, please do consider the venerable Lake Renegade! It was one of my favorite models as was the Berev BE-103.

Thanks guys. Yeah I never thought it was going to be a simple thing to do, but Gmax is more obtuse than I expected. I've used Solidworks for a living for 14 years now, I imagined it would be similar but man was I wrong. I had hoped I could do this in a few months, but I'm starting to realize this is going to be a LONG term project. I've done a lot of reading at quite a few other sites, including FSDeveloper and Avsim, but honestly the tutorials here at SOH have helped me the most so far with Gmax. Seems like this is a good place to learn from.


Bill, I'm not only "considering" the Lake Renegade 270, it is the one and only reason why I am doing this at all. In fact at this point I have no interest in doing any other plane. So if I succeed in this you will get the chance to fly her again with a brand new and updated look!


Speaking of choices, these are (for now) the goals I have for this project:


Primary:
- create a new hi-def model with DX10 compatibility in mind
- all control surfaces will animate, plus gear and all doors
- fully functional and detailed VC (no 2D panel at all)
- using default FSX gauges, for now I'm not going to get into gauge design
- I want to get the sounds and flight model as accurate as I can
- I will make it publically available for free when done, I don't care about any money


Secondary:
- I'd like to include models for the Lake 250, Seawolf, and military versions
- I'd like to include a few repaints for variety's sake




It's a tall order I know, but I love this plane dearly. I figured for the amount of freeware aircraft I've downloaded and flown over the years it was time I learned to contribute something to the community, lol.

An invaluable tool for learning about gmax is the 'gmax Bible', available at Amazon. It comes with a PDF version on CD, so you can keep it on your computer for quick reference. It sure helped me. When (not if) you get stuck, FSDeveloper is the place to go. The Wiki and the forums are your best source of information, and almost everyone who makes planes, scenery and missions for FSX/Prepar3d hangs out there and are more than willing to give you helpful hints and advice.

Sorry to add to an old thread, but have you finished it yet Mengy? Where will we be able to find it?

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Originally Posted by RyanJZ

Sorry to add to an old thread, but have you finished it yet Mengy? Where will we be able to find it?

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After all this time and no follow up. . .it's possible other RW forces took over and he set it aside. . .or it turned out to be a tougher learning curve than expected and he's reconsidered even tackling it. It's not unusual to go this long without any update, but normally if someone dives into a project like this and makes any significant headway at all they are anxious to show the progress even if it's just a minor part or a portion of the fuselage or VC. After 9 months, my money's on the fact that he set it aside or dropped it altogether.

Ah I see... that's too bad :/
I've been toying with the idea of getting into FSDS, but I've always been put off by the steep learning curve that comes with it. I would love to see a payware quality Lake or Be-103. It seems like amphibians are rare in FSX. Only ones I've found are a FS9 Lake 250 (regrettably part of the panel is invisible) and a Be-103 that actually works pretty well in FSX (its adapted from a FS9 model). Doesn't fly too realistically though! Goes about 20 knots faster than real life :P There's probably more freeware amphibians I don't know about though! I'm pretty sure Carenado published a C206 Amphibian, which I had the privilege of flying in the RW at Lake Winnipesaukee just 2 months ago!:biggrin-new:

It's mostly information.... there aren't many good three view plans of these types around, and their manufacturers don't want to open up it seems... Like Lake, who responded to contact when LDR approached them, then vanished. Sad really. Was looking forward to us having a go at this one... (not related to the OP's project)


It seems like a lot of people want to get into modeling but don't quite realize the size of the task. If you really want to do this, persevere folks. It is worth it... it really is. But its not a repaint... its an extensive project requiring lot of learning and hard work. But the reward when it pays off and you release your first aircraft? indescribable.

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Originally Posted by RyanJZ

Ah I see... that's too bad :/
I've been toying with the idea of getting into FSDS, but I've always been put off by the steep learning curve that comes with it. I would love to see a payware quality Lake or Be-103. It seems like amphibians are rare in FSX. Only ones I've found are a FS9 Lake 250 (regrettably part of the panel is invisible) and a Be-103 that actually works pretty well in FSX (its adapted from a FS9 model). Doesn't fly too realistically though! Goes about 20 knots faster than real life :P There's probably more freeware amphibians I don't know about though! I'm pretty sure Carenado published a C206 Amphibian, which I had the privilege of flying in the RW at Lake Winnipesaukee just 2 months ago!:biggrin-new:

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I am strictly P3D_V2.4 now. . .all the others have been uninstalled and I have, what I figure is probably the same Lake Renegade you describe (by John L Woodward). I fly that airplane in P3D and although the VC isn't clickable (common on most aircraft from FS9) it's otherwise perfect in the sim. I retextured the VC (I don't have the invisibility problem you describe) and did a few new repaints for it and it's a kick to fly. I'll post some screens of what I've done to it a bit later.

Here are some shots of the Renegade interior and additional liveries:

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Originally Posted by falcon409

I am strictly P3D_V2.4 now. . .all the others have been uninstalled and I have, what I figure is probably the same Lake Renegade you describe (by John L Woodward). I fly that airplane in P3D and although the VC isn't clickable (common on most aircraft from FS9) it's otherwise perfect in the sim. I retextured the VC (I don't have the invisibility problem you describe) and did a few new repaints for it and it's a kick to fly. I'll post some screens of what I've done to it a bit later.

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Yeah that's the same one I have for FSX. In the VC, all the instruments show and work properly, only the light switches, the fuel pump, and the heading bug work in the vc. I have to bring up the 2D panel for everything else. Also, is it just me or does it seem like the sim is a lot faster than in real life? Its seems like I'm doing 140 knots before I know it when I take off. BTW nice work on those new textures!:applause:

Hello all, saw my old thread in a Google search and figured I should at least post an update.

I did end up gathering lots of pictures and schematics for the Renegade, and I started both learning and modeling it in FSDS, but I also discovered that making a plane from scratch for FSX-DX10 is much, MUCH harder than I anticipated! Wow, I garnered an entire new appreciation for the payware & freeware plane modelers out there. Suddenly all of the planes I'd bought over the years felt more worth the money, lol.

But then something happened that made my entire project seem less worthwhile: I bought Prepar3D v2. And like a few of you in this thread I discovered that John's good old Lake Renegade version actually works pretty well in P3D, my only real problem was both unclickable buttons and a slight black box just barely peeking over top of the VC. And yeah the VC looks very angular and right out of FS2004, but it's flyable, and it's so great to not only be able to fly my favorite plane again but to do so in a fantastic simulator the runs like a dream with graphics and performance that I could only dream of in FSX.

I tolerate the black box because it's pretty minimal but I'd still like to make a modern Renegade model. It's going to be for P3D now because I've honestly uninstalled FSX and I only fly P3D anymore, I just don't see any reason to go back. From what I've read I'm going to need 3DS Max to do aircraft for P3D. I can actually get an old version of it from the drafting department where I work but I'm unsure yet if it will be good enough to make P3D compatible models, I'll find out this Fall.


So yeah, sorry pilots no new Renegade model yet, but this winter I plan to devote time to it, we'll see if I can actually pull it off....

:banghead:

Keep the FSX SDK and use Blender. No need to invest in 3ds Max and the exported model will work in FSX and P3D, which in turn makes more people happy.