Xtreme Prototypes Lear 20 Series Questions

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July 19th, 2019, 08:56
PilatusTurbo

Xtreme Prototypes Lear 20 Series Questions

I'm looking for a light jet, like a Lear 23-25. I know Xtreme has discontinued the 20 series, but PC Aviator still has it. I want the old retro steam gauges, and the Franz Lear 23 just uses the default 45 cockpit.

Anyone have these ships, the Lear 20 series? How are they optimized and on frames and what not? I'm about to purchase them, I just hate when ya buy something that runs like garbage and can't refund.

I have looked through threads here and online, but I'm looking for a contemporary, today's hardware, opinion.

Thanks guys!
July 19th, 2019, 10:05
Daube

What do you mean they "discontinued" it ?
Their Lear 25 is still on sale on their website: http://xtremeprototypes.com/en/produ...25_se_v2r1.asp

The only other option I know about is the Lear 35 by Flysimware, which also got very good reviews.
July 19th, 2019, 10:24
Josh Patterson

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilatusTurbo

I'm looking for a light jet, like a Lear 23-25. I know Xtreme has discontinued the 20 series, but PC Aviator still has it. I want the old retro steam gauges, and the Franz Lear 23 just uses the default 45 cockpit.

Anyone have these ships, the Lear 20 series? How are they optimized and on frames and what not? I'm about to purchase them, I just hate when ya buy something that runs like garbage and can't refund.

I have looked through threads here and online, but I'm looking for a contemporary, today's hardware, opinion.

Thanks guys!

Try the Lear 24 from Lionheart Creations. I have it and it is quite nice. (I too am a fan of round dials, and their panel is full of 'em!!) If you're not looking for a Lear specifically, you could try the DH125 from Rob's Aero Files or the Piaggio/Douglas PD808. (The 808 is a bit of an odd bird, but I like it. A Douglas project that was sold to Piaggio.) The author's name escapes me right at the moment though but a Google search should find it for you.)
July 19th, 2019, 11:01
Bjoern

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Patterson

Piaggio/Douglas PD808. (The 808 is a bit of an odd bird, but I like it. A Douglas project that was sold to Piaggio.) The author's name escapes me right at the moment though but a Google search should find it for you.)

http://www.mariopilot.heliohost.org/...mid=53&lang=en

A great and pretty complex aircraft.
July 19th, 2019, 13:11
PilatusTurbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daube

What do you mean they "discontinued" it ?
Their Lear 25 is still on sale on their website: http://xtremeprototypes.com/en/produ...25_se_v2r1.asp

The only other option I know about is the Lear 35 by Flysimware, which also got very good reviews.

Yes, I know their 25, specifically is still available. I was asking about their Lear 20 Series package, which is no longer available from them, directly. Not intersted in just the 25, nor for $50 (Yes, I get it, that's now a 'reasonable' price for payware these days-not doing it :) ). I also really have my heart set on a 23 or 24.

I'll check out Lionheart's again. How is it on performance and optimization?

That's the main question I want from your guys' experiences; which of these are frame rate friendly, more so than another.

I'll check it out, Bjoern. :) Thanks guys :)
July 20th, 2019, 01:49
Josh Patterson

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilatusTurbo

Yes, I know their 25, specifically is still available. I was asking about their Lear 20 Series package, which is no longer available from them, directly. Not intersted in just the 25, nor for $50 (Yes, I get it, that's now a 'reasonable' price for payware these days-not doing it :) ). I also really have my heart set on a 23 or 24.

I'll check out Lionheart's again. How is it on performance and optimization?

That's the main question I want from your guys' experiences; which of these are frame rate friendly, more so than another.

I'll check it out, Bjoern. :) Thanks guys :)

Lionheart's performance of the plane, or its impact on the sim? The aircraft performance is what I would expect from an older jet. Spirited, but not blistering and you have the option for full manual operation as just about every switch in the VC works. As for how it is on the sim, I have an extremely modest setup and I don't get any FPS issues with my most of my sliders set at 50%. For $35 I don't think you would be disappointed.:jump:
July 20th, 2019, 05:40
Daube

I don't own any of these planes, then I cannot speak about their performance.
I have read a lot of feedbacks regarding the XTrem Prototypes Lear 25 and the FlySimWare Lear 35, and both were excellent on the feature and realism point of view, but I don't know anything about their impact on the FPS.

Regarding Lionheart Lear 24, I would be cautious. If I remember correctly, this plane is the reason why the creator of this plane left this forum. People made some comments regarding the exterior model, more specifically the front/cockpit/nose sections which looked nothing like the real Lear 24 (proportions were totally wrong, front windows were too big etc...), and instead of acknowledging the problem, he got upset and left. I don't know if he has rectified the 3D model yet, but I personally excluded him from my possible payware choices at that moment.
That was a long time ago though. Maybe, in the meanwhile he has rectified everything and his model is now a very nice one, I don't know. I didn't check at all.
July 20th, 2019, 07:31
fallenphoenix1986

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilatusTurbo

I'm looking for a light jet, like a Lear 23-25. I know Xtreme has discontinued the 20 series, but PC Aviator still has it. I want the old retro steam gauges, and the Franz Lear 23 just uses the default 45 cockpit.

I've got both the Xtreme Prototypes pack and the Franz Luftfahrt packages, haven't flow either in a couple of years though... no reflection on the models I just don't really fire up FSX that often these days. I may or may not have swapped the default L45 cockpit of the FL for the EP L24's cockpit, can't remember really, certainly planned to though. Much like yourself I prefer the older steam driven Lears to the glass cockpit variants.

I don't recall any particular performance issues with either model and I'm running on what can now only be described as an antique. I built this machine when I started university, and graduated 5 years ago... bit of a beast in its day but that was 9 years ago :dizzy:.

I'll try and do a test flight of both either tonight or tomorrow and report back, as I said though I'm pretty sure they were both fine performance wise.
July 20th, 2019, 08:43
Motormouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daube

I don't own any of these planes, then I cannot speak about their performance.
I have read a lot of feedbacks regarding the XTrem Prototypes Lear 25 and the FlySimWare Lear 35, and both were excellent on the feature and realism point of view, but I don't know anything about their impact on the FPS.

Regarding Lionheart Lear 24, I would be cautious. If I remember correctly, this plane is the reason why the creator of this plane left this forum. People made some comments regarding the exterior model, more specifically the front/cockpit/nose sections which looked nothing like the real Lear 24 (proportions were totally wrong, front windows were too big etc...), and instead of acknowledging the problem, he got upset and left. I don't know if he has rectified the 3D model yet, but I personally excluded him from my possible payware choices at that moment.
That was a long time ago though. Maybe, in the meanwhile he has rectified everything and his model is now a very nice one, I don't know. I didn't check at all.

A lot of those who criticised Bill's Learjet had never been up close to one in their life.

just my 2 cents

Ttfn

Pete
July 20th, 2019, 09:40
Bjoern

As far as I know, Bill modified the nose section of his Learjet for an update.
July 20th, 2019, 11:41
PilatusTurbo

1 Attachment(s)

Ended up buying the Xtreme Lear 20 Series. The textures were a bit wonky, just to me, not bad (their repaint kit had the fuselage DDS upside down; couldn't get it to map correctly until I figured out I had to invert it). It's actually quite frame rate friendly, and the panel textures are a little fuzzy, but legible. I'm gonna actually get the manual out and learn to start a jet. Never did the serious stuff outside of piston and turbocharged piston planes.

I also can't stand non N tail numbers, so I'm in the process of learning to repaint. Got DXTBmp, and Paint.net... I created my FIRST EVER repaint last night. Not too much to write home about, but I was quite proud of the small work. I've never gone beyond simple panel and aircraft cfg modifications; I tried learning repainting years and years ago and couldn't figure Gimp out. All I did was lighten their dark dark lines and rivets and make one stripe yellow, and add my tail number. xD

I wish Xtreme's repaint kit was a bit more blank, and had the option for the super dark or regular panel lines with rivets, but it's nothing a hue modification to the base layer can't fix. They also included the body stripes as a base layer paint. Not sure why...

I'm not sure how far I'll get into repainting, as it would be super fun, but HOLY learning curve to it. I can barely add a layer or two and move them around, let alone mess with bump mapping layers or whatever. I've googled the tutorials to death, but now I'm gonna focus on Paint.net and learning its interface. I'm just happy I can add a custom tail number... Don't know how to remove the old one, yet, but I'll get there. :dizzy: :p87:
July 20th, 2019, 14:15
Daube

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motormouse

A lot of those who criticised Bill's Learjet had never been up close to one in their life.

just my 2 cents

Ttfn

Pete

You are right, a lot of them never ever got close to a real Lear24.
However, 100% of these guys compared his model to real life pictures of Lear 24 planes, and it was very obvious to everybody that the model didn't look right AT ALL.
It doesn't matter if you get to see a plane in real. I never saw a real Tomcat in my life, but if somebody makes a Tomcat model that looks completely wrong, I'll notice it anyways.
July 20th, 2019, 14:16
Daube

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilatusTurbo

Ended up buying the Xtreme Lear 20 Series. The textures were a bit wonky, just to me, not bad (their repaint kit had the fuselage DDS upside down; couldn't get it to map correctly until I figured out I had to invert it). It's actually quite frame rate friendly, and the panel textures are a little fuzzy, but legible. I'm gonna actually get the manual out and learn to start a jet. Never did the serious stuff outside of piston and turbocharged piston planes.

I also can't stand non N tail numbers, so I'm in the process of learning to repaint. Got DXTBmp, and Paint.net... I created my FIRST EVER repaint last night. Not too much to write home about, but I was quite proud of the small work. I've never gone beyond simple panel and aircraft cfg modifications; I tried learning repainting years and years ago and couldn't figure Gimp out. All I did was lighten their dark dark lines and rivets and make one stripe yellow, and add my tail number. xD

I wish Xtreme's repaint kit was a bit more blank, and had the option for the super dark or regular panel lines with rivets, but it's nothing a hue modification to the base layer can't fix. They also included the body stripes as a base layer paint. Not sure why...

I'm not sure how far I'll get into repainting, as it would be super fun, but HOLY learning curve to it. I can barely add a layer or two and move them around, let alone mess with bump mapping layers or whatever. I've googled the tutorials to death, but now I'm gonna focus on Paint.net and learning its interface. I'm just happy I can add a custom tail number... Don't know how to remove the old one, yet, but I'll get there. :dizzy: :p87:

Have you checked the FlySimWare forums (at avsim) where the new textures for the Lear35 are being worked on, with PBR and all ? It looks very good, honnestly.
July 20th, 2019, 15:01
PilatusTurbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daube

Have you checked the FlySimWare forums (at avsim) where the new textures for the Lear35 are being worked on, with PBR and all ? It looks very good, honnestly.

Lear 35? I saw their model, and although nice, I'm just not into any bigger than the 25. I want the smaller small of corporate jets. Was looking at VLJs but anything from Carenado, jet wise, kills my FPS. I really wanted their Citation 550, but I've seen frame rates on their complex, glass cockpit aircraft. Not good even on my modestly powerful rig.

I know there are freeware and my old Eaglesoft Citation, which I still have, but it's no longer up to modern snuff, sadly.

This Xtreme Lear 20 series is just above those in terms of quality, where I can use my imagination for the rest. I didn't realize the private jet market for FS was so small. Figured it would be enormous.
July 20th, 2019, 21:59
ryanbatc

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilatusTurbo

I'm looking for a light jet, like a Lear 23-25. I know Xtreme has discontinued the 20 series, but PC Aviator still has it. I want the old retro steam gauges, and the Franz Lear 23 just uses the default 45 cockpit.

Anyone have these ships, the Lear 20 series? How are they optimized and on frames and what not? I'm about to purchase them, I just hate when ya buy something that runs like garbage and can't refund.

I have looked through threads here and online, but I'm looking for a contemporary, today's hardware, opinion.

Thanks guys!

I know you're looking for baby Lears but I'd seriously consider the LJ35 from Flysimware. They are nearly wrapping up a massive visual update to the aircraft. It looks incredible. Follow this thread: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/5...exture-update/
Sometimes you can find the Lear on sale too...
July 20th, 2019, 23:53
PilatusTurbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanbatc

I know you're looking for baby Lears but I'd seriously consider the LJ35 from Flysimware. They are nearly wrapping up a massive visual update to the aircraft. It looks incredible. Follow this thread: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/5...exture-update/
Sometimes you can find the Lear on sale too...

WOW. I didn't know 35's had the iconic tip tanks. Major reason I was after these 'baby lears' as you say. I am going to have to consider this seriously, now. I've actually taken the time, another first, to read and understand the checklists for a jet in FS. I can actually start this ship from cold and dark; always used to use the good ol' CTRL+E for anything without propellers and pistons. Very very cool. It's also nice that the cockpit layout is almost identical.

However, how is the Flysimware 35 on FPS? I know it may be hard to speculate about this update, but man that does look nice. If it performs like the Xtreme 20 series, I'm in. :)
July 21st, 2019, 06:03
Daube

I love FlySimWare, they put a lot of attention and small details/features in their planes.
However, you are right to be careful about the performance. I have only their Mu-2, which I love, but it was a bit heavy on the FPS on my previous computer. I cannot tell about the Lear 35, because I don't own it, but maybe somebody else will reply.
What is your current hardware ?

In any case, I strongly advise you to wait for some sales if you want to buy that plane. FlySimWare sometimes does some very nice price reduction, ranging from 30% to 50% if I remember correctly. Since you have already got the Lear 20 series, you have something to help you waiting anyways :)
July 21st, 2019, 06:42
PilatusTurbo

12 Attachment(s)

I agree, Daube. I'll get better at fine tuning my paint for this ship, and make it my own. :) I found that you can't change the ATC ID or tailnumber in this aircraft's config. Some models have it coded in, and this seems to be one of them. I don't mind manually changing it before flying, now that I know that's the only way to do it.

As far as having something nice while I wait, I'm quite happy with it. I'm learning to do new stuff in FS I never have before. I've never seriously attempted to realistically fly a turbine aircraft. I'm now attempting to do it, with this, and it's SUPER fun. I'm gonna move onto the ILS lessons in the sim, and begin reading up on Turbine engine management, so I understand more than just what the gauges show me.

I flew her back from Telluride, to my hometown of Phoenix, last night. Stopped in Winslow for fuel and a real bathroom break. :D I didn't really need to, but getting below 2,000 lbs fuel made me a little edgy. Started her back up after fuel services took care of it, and taxied out during sunset, and made way back to Phoenix. Landing is more challenging, but I'm learning a more precision, trimmed approach; let the plane do the work. Sorry for my 87,000 screenshots. I wanted to share the maiden voyage and first flights, it was super fun and memorable. Not a bad little ship, at all.

This aircraft is teaching me to refine, and slow down my flying, and be more proactive and planned. It's quite fun. I'm beginning to see the other side of what all the tubeliner guys like so much. Still gonna fly my GA Piston fleet mostly, but this is a great intermediate range jumper.
July 21st, 2019, 09:51
Bjoern

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilatusTurbo

Lear 35? I saw their model, and although nice, I'm just not into any bigger than the 25.

A 35 is basically a re-engined 25.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilatusTurbo

However, how is the Flysimware 35 on FPS? I know it may be hard to speculate about this update, but man that does look nice. If it performs like the Xtreme 20 series, I'm in. :)

I was very sensitive about FPS in FSX and the LJ35 performed well. It's no default 172, but FPS required no slider reduction BS.

VAS consumption was a bit of an issue with all the 3D stuff in the cockpit, but texture resolution reductions and/or conversion into DXT1 format improved matters.