Question: Computers and speaker magnets.

[gman5250]

This is not my area of expertise so I thought I'd ask about it.

I have a number of anomalies with my computers. The anomalies have persisted across three computers and four operating systems.

I use JBL Studio Monitors for audio in the sim and for my Motif synthesizer. I have a second set of towers, a couple of feet to the outside of the JBL's.
The amp makes 650 watts and I run it all through a mixing board. Everything is piped through professional quality shielded cables.

Typically the JBL's are on either side of my work station, about six feet apart. The computers are in proximity, within two feet of the speakers. The JBLs use 15 inch woofers, six inch mids and some horns.

The question...do the magnets for the big woofers generate enough field to cause mayhem in the computers? I have no hard drive memory issues or screen monitor problems, just a lot of program crashing and bizarre OS related bugs.

I've read up on this question but still don't have a definitive answer.

Thanks in advance.

[roger-wilco-66]

My 2ct.

I don't think that a strong magnetic field does have such an effect on a computer. If the computer has a metal case, it is shielded from external (electro-) magnetic fields anyhow, remember Faraday. The other aspect is that magnetic fields loose their strength very fast with growing distance. I forgot the formula, but it is very significant, we're talking about like half the strength at a distance of 2cm or so if I remember right.
Did you ever take a hard drive apart? There are super strong magnets right inside the hdd casing that probably rival the speaker magnets in strength!

If you want to make sure you could move the speakers away for a session, switch off the amp, and see what happens - but I would suspect that the culprit for the app crashes is within the computer system.


Cheers,
Mark

[p14u2nv]

Sounds like a possible vibration issue affecting the hard drives perhaps by making the drives themselves absorb the vibrations too.

Do you experience this when the towers/amp(s) are turned off too Gman?

[Jafo]

First answer...a magnet will have exactly zero effect on a HD. If it's part of the Hadron Collider it just might.
Accessible magnetic fields can affect a CRT...but most humans have moved beyond them in this millennium...;)

[gman5250]

Sounds like a possible vibration issue affecting the hard drives perhaps by making the drives themselves absorb the vibrations too.

Do you experience this when the towers/amp(s) are turned off too Gman?

I spend a lot of time in the headphones...no speakers/amp powered up. I still get the anomalies w/o any external vibrations.

[gman5250]

My 2ct.

I don't think that a strong magnetic field does have such an effect on a computer. If the computer has a metal case, it is shielded from external (electro-) magnetic fields anyhow, remember Faraday. The other aspect is that magnetic fields loose their strength very fast with growing distance. I forgot the formula, but it is very significant, we're talking about like half the strength at a distance of 2cm or so if I remember right.
Did you ever take a hard drive apart? There are super strong magnets right inside the hdd casing that probably rival the speaker magnets in strength!

If you want to make sure you could move the speakers away for a session, switch off the amp, and see what happens - but I would suspect that the culprit for the app crashes is within the computer system.


Cheers,
Mark

I actually use a Faraday wallet...hadn't considered the metal case for the computer does the same, but that makes complete sense. At one point I did have the speakers and synth across the room and it seems to have had no impact on the issue.

[txnetcop]

Like Mark I strongly doubt that your speaker magnets could cause the anomaly. I would open your case and check to see that board and RAM is secure. In fact remove your ram and carefully clean the contacts with a clean pencil eraser. Usually it is something very simple. Vibration, oxidation, and time of use can render a good computer ineffective until properly cleaned. Sometimes one addon software or malware can cause the same anomaly to occur. I use a program called SIW to see if anything is amiss. http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/siw_(system_info).html
Ted

[gman5250]

Like Mark I strongly doubt that your speaker magnets could cause the anomaly. I would open your case and check to see that board and RAM is secure. In fact remove your ram and carefully clean the contacts with a clean pencil eraser. Usually it is something very simple. Vibration, oxidation, and time of use can render a good computer ineffective until properly cleaned. Sometimes one addon software or malware can cause the same anomaly to occur. I use a program called SIW to see if anything is amiss. http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/siw_(system_info).html
Ted

Thanks for that link Ted. I downloaded the package and had a look at my system and OS. Everything seems to be 5x5 with the hardware. The box gets good maintenance and is always clean too. It could just be down to static electricity, which we have an abundance of here. My wife and I are always arcing each other with enough juice to light a small town. I have to be really careful about grounding myself every time I set down to the computer.

Thanks for your tip :encouragement:

[PHo17]

Earth's magnetic field is very weak. However it turns the needle of a compass. So even a cheap compass detects very weak magnetic fields. If you have a compass available you can test with it the "efective magnetic field distance" of speakers with it. My computer's speakers are shielded model. I can move a compass about 5 cm (2 inches) from them until the needle moves. The same test with my (bigger and unshielded) loud speakers make the needle move about 1 m (3 yards) from the speakers.

I don't think that even nearer of that there is any harm for the computer. In the earlier times of tube monitors too near the monitor situated unshielded speakers might magnetize the monitor (temporarily or permanently). This caused color faults on the edge of the monitor. This once happened to me too. Even then I didn't find any harm for the other parts of computer. With modern flat monitors magnetism isn't a problem anymore.

Pekka

[hairyspin]

You have no HD problems, but these write their data on disk with an electromagnet. Time to rule out the speaker magnets I think.

When did you last run Checkdsk?

[huub vink]

In Europe we have the EMC-directive, which is there to make sure that electric/electronic equipment doesn't interfere which each other due to to the electric-magnetic field they generate. This is applicable for all electric equipement. In common language: I can't switch on my TV with my blender.

I assume you have similar regulations in the US, due to which it should be impossible that your speakers interfere with your computer.

When your speakers are also sold within the European Economic Community, they should have a CE marking, which shows that they are Electromagnetic compatible.

Cheers,
Huub

[JAllen]

I think you hit upon the problem in your comment about static electricity and having to ground yourself. My son had some anomalies that he thought was static related. So, we connected all the cases of his rig to a common point and connected that point to the grounding screw on an electrical outlet. We used 18ga wire and used a small screw for the common point. All peripheral cases, plastic and metal, and the PC case as well were connected. His issues seem to have left the building. The idea is to give static a discharge path away from sensitive equipment with the belief that static will follow the surfaces to the "static drain".

[macismatix]

Hi ********. I saw your post some time back but only recently had my forum registration sorted out. Now, how did you go? I agree with the several suggestions that the magnetic fields generated by your JBLs (etc.) are unlikely to have any impact on your PC or its software. As was also suggested, you should be able to prove or disprove any causal influence by careful experimentation, as I think you know. But don't trust the notion of magnetic shielding: Faraday shields are effective for ELECTROmagnetic fields, rather than magnetic. Mu-metal alloys offer effective magnetic shielding, but (a) I doubt very much whether you'd benefit from such a shield, and (b) it probably wouldn't be feasible anyway - LOTS of trouble doing it in the real world. Far simpler to just power down the audio gear, disconnect and remove the speakers from the room. I doubt there'll be any change.

On the other hand, given that several different systems you've had have suffered similar problems, there could be other factors. RF (Radio Frequency) interference is (IMHO) far more likely to cause problems, if it is at a high enough level - although here, the typical metal PC case should provide a useful degree of EMF shielding - although I/O leads, possibly including speaker cables, can easily pick up RF from nearby transmitters, and this could be investigated readily enough. Do you live in an area where high powered, or nearby transmitters - radio comms, radar or whatever - could be hitting you with high levels of RF?

Another possibility is unstable AC line power at your place; or mains-borne pulse interference. But I still feel all these possibilities are a bit unlikely.
I run VHF and HF transmitters quite close to my PC and don't have any problems - but under some circumstances, I guess it's possible.

As a general test to see whether your PC's environment is hazardous to happy flying, why not take your system to, say, a quiet rural location and see whether the erratic computer behaviour persists - with and without your audio amps and speakers? If the problems do persist in this isolation, then logically something common to your various system builds or software is a likely culprit. For instance, have you re-used the same PC power supply (ATX type, or whatever) in different systems? Partly faulty power supplies are often enough the cause of apparently random glitches.

Okay, I have more thoughts, but enough for now. If anything in what I've written seems worth following up, good. If not, I wish you eventual success in resolving the mystery.

Cheers - macismatix.

[txnetcop]

Hi ********. I saw your post some time back but only recently had my forum registration sorted out. Now, how did you go? I agree with the several suggestions that the magnetic fields generated by your JBLs (etc.) are unlikely to have any impact on your PC or its software. As was also suggested, you should be able to prove or disprove any causal influence by careful experimentation, as I think you know. But don't trust the notion of magnetic shielding: Faraday shields are effective for ELECTROmagnetic fields, rather than magnetic. Mu-metal alloys offer effective magnetic shielding, but (a) I doubt very much whether you'd benefit from such a shield, and (b) it probably wouldn't be feasible anyway - LOTS of trouble doing it in the real world. Far simpler to just power down the audio gear, disconnect and remove the speakers from the room. I doubt there'll be any change.

On the other hand, given that several different systems you've had have suffered similar problems, there could be other factors. RF (Radio Frequency) interference is (IMHO) far more likely to cause problems, if it is at a high enough level - although here, the typical metal PC case should provide a useful degree of EMF shielding - although I/O leads, possibly including speaker cables, can easily pick up RF from nearby transmitters, and this could be investigated readily enough. Do you live in an area where high powered, or nearby transmitters - radio comms, radar or whatever - could be hitting you with high levels of RF?

Another possibility is unstable AC line power at your place; or mains-borne pulse interference. But I still feel all these possibilities are a bit unlikely.
I run VHF and HF transmitters quite close to my PC and don't have any problems - but under some circumstances, I guess it's possible.

As a general test to see whether your PC's environment is hazardous to happy flying, why not take your system to, say, a quiet rural location and see whether the erratic computer behaviour persists - with and without your audio amps and speakers? If the problems do persist in this isolation, then logically something common to your various system builds or software is a likely culprit. For instance, have you re-used the same PC power supply (ATX type, or whatever) in different systems? Partly faulty power supplies are often enough the cause of apparently random glitches.

Okay, I have more thoughts, but enough for now. If anything in what I've written seems worth following up, good. If not, I wish you eventual success in resolving the mystery.

Cheers - macismatix.

Good word Macismatix...I've been doing computers since 1978 (mainframes to building IBM type mini-mainframes and desktop computers). You could definitely be onto something here. We assume our computers are basically free of RF interference but in some areas that is not the case, even some areas of the house. It would have a similar effect to static electricity.
Ted

[Wayland]

Another thing is dirty power. I worked a operator job once in the early 80's that we had continuous problems with. The IBM field engineers hung a recording Voltmeter on the incoming power finally, and BINGO, there it was. Stuck a massive UPS into the incoming line as a filter and no more problems. Sadly, dirty power is becoming a more widespread problem now with increased power usage.


Steve

[macismatix]

Thanks, both Ted and Steve, for your input re ********'s problems. In both cases your experience suggests that it should be worth looking at his PC's operating environment - RF and mains power at least, that is. I guess it might not be easy, though, for him to run proper checks, either for problematic RF levels and / or frequencies, or dirty power. Maybe for the latter he could borrow or buy a good filter or UPS unit; I don't recommend direct line tests (i.e. with meters, etc.) for anyone unless they have experience and suitable equipment. Maybe someone who has a scanning radio with band view, (or even a spectrum analyzer) could help with the RF angle. Do you guys have any suggested checking / testing approaches ******** could try? Regards to all, Macismatix.​

[Jafo]

First thing to do would be to get a decent UPS....then the mains power can be 'eliminated' [other than its potential inherent RF issues].
About the only thing any HI FI magnets could affect computer-wise is those old 5.25 low density floppies.....and if you're still using those you have bigger problems than RF ....;)

[gman5250]

Thanks guys for all of the input above.

Here's the funny thing about RF. I live in an area that is nearly RF free. I'm in a very remote part of Northern California at the eastern base of the Sierra's. I can actually see the PAPI at KMMY from my front deck, (no ILS or radar). My house literally sits at the extreme eastern edge of civilization in CA. Out my front door is cattle range, Lake Crowley and three states of desert to the east.

We are blessed with a pronounced lack of RF. There are no RF sources i.e. repeaters, GWEN, HT lines, for many miles. Two years ago they put in a "Monopole Tower" about two miles down the road, but my anomalies preceded that by a few years.

I also live in a metal skinned house, siding and roof, so I should be fairly inulated.

No smart meters.
No microwave.
No "Smart" appliances.
No high speed cable.
No cell phone service.

The only significant "local" energy sources are the scalar from the computer...and me, which are inherently at odds if I understand the quantum correctly.

I've run the Checkdsk scans that Hairy Spin suggested...thanks HS. Nothing remarkable stood out.

The only other thing that may be a factor is the huge lava lake directly beneath my butt, about 12 miles down, but I've never heard of any research done with regard to volcanos and RF. This area is know as the Long Valley Caldera and is still rated as a potential super volcano.

I'll look into UPS, there may be something to that theory. It would have to be a macro issue though, as I had the same anomalies at two different houses over the last few years.

OR Maybeeee.........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dar2HKImK-0

[TuFun]

Something akin to "Captain Kirk" seeing #2 engine problem! :biggrin-new:

http://blog.techquility.net/do-human-energy-fields-affect-computers-electronics/

[gman5250]

Something akin to "Captain Kirk" seeing #2 engine problem! :biggrin-new:

http://blog.techquility.net/do-human-energy-fields-affect-computers-electronics/

The way I understand it, the scalar of electronic devices and the scalar energy of the human body are incompatible, or at least present conflicting wave forms. Possibly two scalar wave forms could have a similar behavior as light in the classic "Double Split" experiment? That would be interesting...

The anomalies I experience certainly would seem to fall into the "unexplained, almost supernatural" categories described in your article TF. :very_drunk:
I get bitmaps that revert to earlier iterations which had been overwritten many times, or blocks of .xml code that simply drop out of saved documents. Even the backup copy of the same doc, on an external and unplugged HD will change with the live doc. Also, GMAX and 3DStudio Max models will revert to earlier models...along with associated animation codes.

I actually installed the external HD as a safeguard device to isolate my docs from uninvited intrusions. I leave it disconnected and unplugged at all times, except to transfer data.

I remember a few years ago on my old WinXP box I had a huge code string for a website I was designing, change...while the doc remained open. The code string was about six hundred lines long and blocks of code through the entire string changed as though a word search had been done and replaced specific segments.
The code string was a driver that controlled an online color selector chart for my former company.

I'm not kidding. lol

Good article, especially the part about seeing a Reiki specialist. My wife is an extremely gifted Reiki worker for many years now.


BTW Ted:
If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, look into Harald Kautz-Vella.

[Wayland]

Hmmm... That pretty much narrows it down to Gremlins. Try waving a dead chicken over the tower, then light a small oil candle filled with machine oil and move it around the tower case 3 times clockwise. Chant "go pester someone else!" as you do this.


Steve

[paiken]

Hmmm... That pretty much narrows it down to Gremlins. Try waving a dead chicken over the tower, then light a small oil candle filled with machine oil and move it around the tower case 3 times clockwise. Chant "go pester someone else!" as you do this.


Steve
Dang it, now I have to clean off my keyboard. I did a spit take on that one!
:biggrin-new:

[gman5250]

Hmmm... That pretty much narrows it down to Gremlins. Try waving a dead chicken over the tower, then light a small oil candle filled with machine oil and move it around the tower case 3 times clockwise. Chant "go pester someone else!" as you do this.


Steve


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=bWdfDsLvm9I

[gman5250]

Dang it, now I have to clean off my keyboard. I did a spit take on that one!
:biggrin-new:

I blew my root beer out my nose........:biggrin-new:

[gman5250]

Hmmm... That pretty much narrows it down to Gremlins. Steve

I'm pretty much going with the guy in the monkey suit. The theoretical math is over my head.

And another thing...can someone explain to me exactly how Kirk made his rank with Star Fleet after shooting out the window of a DC-6 with a stolen .38?????

[macismatix]

Sorry, ********, can't help with Kirk. Probably with nothing much else, either. And good luck with that lava lake; maybe I'd better get over to see Yosemite before your problems really develop! But seriously: have you a friend with a nice, ultra smooth-running FS system who would care to pop on over to your place with it, and see whether the gremlins strike his machine without mercy, too? I guess he'd really have to owe you something, given your exasperating experiences to date. Still, such an investigation should be quite revealing. Best of luck with it all; we'll all be watching.
Bye for now. (Ian / macismatix)

[txnetcop]

I know a Cherokee Medicine Man that might be of some use in figuring this thing out GMAN. He is hell on wheels for ghost stories! As for Captain Kirk, well look what happened to him...Spock wouldn't even talk to him before he died. He must've found out that Kirk cheated to get rank!
Ted

[gman5250]

Funny thing, the bike I'm sitting in my Avatar belongs to a good friend who is a Paiute Indian. He's been through all of the initiations into the ancient ways...but he doesn't do computer work. lol

OK...serious.

Here is example of an ongoing glitch. Autogen Annotator.

I have three different SDKs installed...FSX, P3D2.5 and P3D3.2. I get the same glitch in all three.

High Definition Satellite Imagery Tile

In the example, I have selected a single autogen square to edit. In the attached photo you see that many autogen polys were selected at the same time, which makes it impossible for me to edit, change or delete only one item. I can add squares or polys, but if I want to delete or change anything I can't select only a single. Also using the select button, I only get multiselect and not the selected autogen type. I get the anomaly regardless when using either a mouse or the Wacom Pen.

Right now I'm dead in the water with any autogen annotation do to the glitch.

The anomaly persists in all of my SDK annotators and only showed up about three weeks ago. I had made no changes to any of my settings prior to the bug showing up.


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1639/25764116131_fba61a6ab9_o.jpg

[vortex]

gman, are there any single components which have been common to all of your systems (for example PSU, keyboard, mouse, etc.)? Also, do you have a powerline network in your home?

[gman5250]

gman, are there any single components which have been common to all of your systems (for example PSU, keyboard, mouse, etc.)? Also, do you have a powerline network in your home?

That's the quandary, I've gone through multiple keyboards/mouse sets, moved over to the Wacom about a year ago and no networks. The only common denominator left is my IPS, whom I've had for 15 years. My wife runs a MacBook out of the same house and has no issues. The issue with the autogen cropped up well after I had made any keyboard/mouse/tablet changes.

The really weird thing is that the autogen behavior persists across three different SDKs, and appeared in all of them on the same day. I use the Wacom tablet for my autogen work and have not updated any drivers since I installed the pad. One interesting thing is that I have had repeated occasions where all of my preferences in the Wacom tablet software change, not to default, but to other settings without my input. I've had to reset my settings quite a few times.

The only other significant factor is that the frequency of the anomalies increased dramatically after I went to Windows 10 with all of it's proprietary "security" features.

[macismatix]

Hi again, ********. Thanks for the illustrative graphic; I don't know a lot about scenery design, but the nature of this particular (autogen selection) problem seems clear enough. Now, looked at logically (as I think will be the key to your whole extended story) the simultaneous appearance of similar anomalies in three SDK packages must suggest something to, say, a professional software designer or hardware engineer. RAM adddressing? CPU registers? Virus? I don't know, but there has to be a serious clue there. Still - you said earlier that you have been experiencing weird anomalies over several different physical systems and OS versions. Now, 'Vortex' has reiterated the question I asked some days back: are there any hardware components which have been repeatedly incorporated in some or all of these builds? You mention trying a variety of mice, keyboards etc. - but have you made a complete, exhaustive check of all the hardware, including any external HDDs or other storage devices you might have used over time?

If you are satisfied that you have done so religiously, what about the software itself? Have you, for instance, been installing any applications, OS components etc. from a common storage source? Could there be a common source of corruption? Has everything been scrupulously scanned for malware using perhaps several serious A-V programs? Was any new software installed on the day the triple SDK problems arose? Does Windows 10 have any issues with any of the software (or hardware) you rely on?

Again we come back to the need to assess all that's been happening to you in a logical, painstaking systematic way. Magnetics aside, you seem assured that the problems aren't caused by your PC's operating environment (I've looked closely at your locality on Google Earth, and I see the relative isolation) - and the fact that your wife's Mac is untroubled lends weight to that assessment. Okay, then; if it's not the JBL's, your area is RF clean, the mains power is OK and the lava is still miles beneath you, then there's some factor common to either the hardware, OS versions and / or applications, or the way you like to configure your systems - IF the problems across time and different systems fit an observable pattern.

So, I reckon you would still benefit from sitting down to a thorough revision of all the weirdities, noting the circumstances for each, and examining all current and previous hardware and software you have relied on. Great if you could get a tech friend to join in the exercise, someone to whom the whole mess is new. Beyond that, if nothing shows up, I still think it could be revealing to try someone else's system in your place - or even swap systems! (With and without the JBLs, high power audio etc., naturally.)

Okay, I'd better clam up. Best wishes with all this, ********!