Landing a helicopter?

[rich12545]

I never flew a heli before but found one that I'll be flying a lot. It's been a learning curve but following instructions in the FSX center I have been able to fly pretty well except landing. I slow and decrease altitude but as soon as the speed drops to zero, the heli starts flying in reverse. I have found no help on this and don't have a clue. Any ideas would be appreciated.

[mal998]

What are you flying?

[airattackimages]

Once you've arrested your forward airspeed you need to bring your nose back down to level. Keep an eye on your artificial horizon. Make small control inputs once established in a hover.

[falcon409]

Once you've arrested your forward airspeed you need to bring your nose back down to level. Keep an eye on your artificial horizon. Make small control inputs once established in a hover.
Exactly. . .Rich it's not that the airspeed has decreased. . .it's actually because you're nose high. When you approach your landing spot you decrease power and slowly bring the nose up to slow even more, which is ok except that as the airspeed drops off and the heli begins to settle, it settles in the only direction it can with the nose high attitude. . .backwards. Even as long as I've flown heli's in the sim. . .I still get caught in this every so often. Like Nate says. . . .watch your artificial horizon to be sure you're level and not nose up. Takes practice like anything else, but you'll get it.

[DaveB]

A lot depends on the flight model too. Some helicopters will start to move backwards as you give them a little gas. I tend to confine those to file-13:biggrin-new:

ATB
DaveB:)

[rich12545]

Thank you, guys. Something simple that didn't occur to me at all. I will do that in my next flight.

I'm flying a Pyro. It's a single seat turbo that can cruise 0-300 kts, has a ceiling of 25,000 ft, is modified to float and has great vision to the front and sides. It can do all kinds of acrobatics but I like it because it seems like the perfect VFR/bush aircraft which is all I fly. It's available at simmarket for $20.

[falcon409]

Thank you, guys. Something simple that didn't occur to me at all. I will do that in my next flight.

I'm flying a Pyro. It's a single seat turbo that can cruise 0-300 kts, has a ceiling of 25,000 ft, is modified to float and has great vision to the front and sides. It can do all kinds of acrobatics but I like it because it seems like the perfect VFR/bush aircraft which is all I fly. It's available at simmarket for $20.
I purchased that when it first came out. Purists kinda thumb their noses at this one cause it's "not a real Heli" but that's fine. . .I'm not a real pilot, lol. Mick Posch did an excellent job and it's a blast to fly.

[rich12545]

Yep. lol I'm not a real pilot either and I'm certainly not a purist. I also like the built in digital radalt because I have a hard time judging altitude in a 2D environment and it's definitely stol lol. I'm a whole lot better flying it now than when I first started. It took a bit to understand the collective and cyclic are separate but one can affect the other. It's really different from flying an airplane and will take more practice to unlearn what the joystick does for airplanes. And there's no trim so it's constant checking the pitch and speed to make corrections. I think I like that better instead of just sitting back looking.

[rich12545]

One thing that just occurred to me. You know that little Right Trim Wheel in the upper left corner? Did you ever find out how to assign keystrokes or joystick slots to it instead of having to move it with the mouse?

[ChipShop]

You could try the Virtavia Sea King, available from http://www.flightsimstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=1962

A Big Bird, but nice to fly, and also very forgiving! Comes in about 20 different colour schemes with the package, dead easy to install too !:encouragement:

ChipShop

[rich12545]

Thanks for the suggestion. It's not that I'm interested in flying helicopters in general, it that I like flying the Pyro specifically because it meets my vfr/bush flying needs. Things like 0-300 cruising speed and a couple of other things that aren't generally found with helis.

[rich12545]

YES! I landed the Pyro without crashing. Still need to practice the coordination between the collective and cyclic but it's getting there. Thanks again for all the help.

[Cirrus N210MS]

i will post a Video soon to help you learn to fly helicopters i have been flying them for years in flight simulator:jump:

[griphos]

In landing regime in a helo, as in a fixed-wing aircraft really, the cyclic (stick/yoke) controls airspeed and the collective (throttle on a fixed-wing) controls altitude. The cyclic controls airspeed by controlling attitude. Don't think of the cyclic as doing much else really, and you'll do better flying it. Push forward to speed up and pull backward to slow down, and use your collective to control your flight path.

A stable approach is best, just as in a fixed-wing. In general, set up a glide path by pulling the cyclic back to slow to about 60kts and adjust collective to keep your descent aimed at the runway. Maintain speed with the cyclic. Don't try to do anything else but maintain speed with the cyclic.

As you get to the point where you would flare in an airplane, pull back cyclic to slow to hover speed and adjust collective not to gain altitude. As you translate to hover lift at about 20 kts, you'll need to add some collective and adjust torque pedals to catch rotation. And push forward on cyclic to keep from "slowing" below 0 kts and starting to fly backwards. Keep pushing and pulling the cyclic to keep your speed at or near 0 kts, and use your collective to maintain height above the ground. Then just hover taxi to the landing spot and settle her down.

As as they say, it's kind of like balancing a basketball on top of another basketball, so lots of little corrections. I find it helps to add in a correction and then immediately take it back halfway.

Good luck. As in all flying, landing is the difficult part. The rest is cake.

[rich12545]

This is an excellent explanation.

[Victory103]

Had to look up the model, probably not the best to start off with, but given how far off FS rotary-wing aerodynamics are, it will not matter. Hovercontrol is a good first stop to flying FS helos in general.

[Cirrus N210MS]

once you have been flying as long as i have in FS you will get it down pretty quick on learning to land and hover etc loads of fun


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFEKbrYlzls

[roger-wilco-66]

In landing regime in a helo, as in a fixed-wing aircraft really, the cyclic (stick/yoke) controls airspeed and the collective (throttle on a fixed-wing) controls altitude. The cyclic controls airspeed by controlling attitude. Don't think of the cyclic as doing much else really, and you'll do better flying it. Push forward to speed up and pull backward to slow down, and use your collective to control your flight path.

A stable approach is best, just as in a fixed-wing. In general, set up a glide path by pulling the cyclic back to slow to about 60kts and adjust collective to keep your descent aimed at the runway. Maintain speed with the cyclic. Don't try to do anything else but maintain speed with the cyclic.

As you get to the point where you would flare in an airplane, pull back cyclic to slow to hover speed and adjust collective not to gain altitude. As you translate to hover lift at about 20 kts, you'll need to add some collective and adjust torque pedals to catch rotation. And push forward on cyclic to keep from "slowing" below 0 kts and starting to fly backwards. Keep pushing and pulling the cyclic to keep your speed at or near 0 kts, and use your collective to maintain height above the ground. Then just hover taxi to the landing spot and settle her down.

As as they say, it's kind of like balancing a basketball on top of another basketball, so lots of little corrections. I find it helps to add in a correction and then immediately take it back halfway.

Good luck. As in all flying, landing is the difficult part. The rest is cake.


Great write up!
I'm abyssmally bad at landing helos. I usually fly the Nemeth / Milviz UH-1D and never got that thing to land properly. Let alone hovering. As soon as I go into hover transition, it starts to wobble and becomes instable around the yaw axis. I wish I had a proper collective / throttle control, I (mis-) use the Saitek throttle quadrant for that.

I'll try it again these days, using your explanation above!

Cheers,
Mark

[joe bob]

My personal opinion is if you can hover then landing is easy.
The technique that works for me is to not concentrate on the artificial horizon and only glance at the nearby ground.
Focus out in the distance taking in the whole scene rather than a specific point and you tend to see drift easily yet unlike concentrating in close, you are not prone to over control.

I am always tempted to take off by dumping the nose while pulling on the collective and land like I am making a combat assault in Viet Nam
If I make it a point to start and end each flight in a hover then I stay in practice.
That's what works for me anyway.

[roger-wilco-66]

I am always tempted to take off by dumping the nose while pulling on the collective and land like I am making a combat assault in Viet Nam
[...]

.

ROFL!! Now that sounds familiar!

How do you guys work the collective and the throttle(s) ? I mean physically, controller wise?


Cheers,
Mark

[griphos]

I just use my joystick and one of the levers from my CH Throttle Quadrant for the collective. Rudder pedals are essential for helos, imo. Of course, I think they are essential for airplanes too, but I fly a lot of classic and military aircraft in the sim, and like to slip in landings.

Glad the description of landing has been helpful. I concur with the advice to practice hovering, and particularly with the suggestion to focus on the end of the runway or a point in the middle distance. This is the same for airplanes as well. When landing, everything you need to know is shown down at the other end of the runway. Look there, never right in front of you.

[ChipShop]

Thanks for the suggestion. It's not that I'm interested in flying helicopters in general, it that I like flying the Pyro specifically because it meets my vfr/bush flying needs. Things like 0-300 cruising speed and a couple of other things that aren't generally found with helis.

Ok then rich, no worries!

In case you are interested, and might like to fly something else as well; only smaller than the Sea King......................

I've recently been flying the UKMIL Gazelle, and it's surprisingly responsive in it's controls, will hover quite nicely and is reasonably easy to land !

May be worth a try for you!? https://flyawaysimulation.com/downloads/files/13918/fsx-ukmil-gazelle-ah1-package/

If you do go for it, add this sound pack as well, as the one supplied is from a Bell helo. or something, and sounds quite wrong!


http://simviation.com/1/browse-Flight+Simulator+Sounds-112-4; these are real sounds I believe!

Cheers for now,

ChipShop

[falcon409]

ROFL!! Now that sounds familiar!

How do you guys work the collective and the throttle(s) ? I mean physically, controller wise?

Cheers,
Mark
Mark, I have a single CH Throttle setup (got tired of using the tab on my joystick) and a twist-grip joystick so I have throttle, collective and rudder control at my fingertips, makes Heli flight very easy.

[mal998]

Several years ago when MS was still supporting multiplayer a bunch of us got together quite often for fly-ins. Back then we flew everything under the sun including many of the helicopters which were available at that time. At one point we were doing Viet Nam ops which called for lots of helo time. I was taught to fly helicopters by Graham Viele (former helo mechanic), and Michael Davies (respsonsible for building many AS helicopters) and I remember at some point we came to the conclusion that it was easier and more realistic to fly helicopters in FSX if you pulled the control sliders to the left. As I recall, some of us felt that if the sliders were mid or right it created a problem with over-control in the sim. So for those who are interested in doing a bit of helo flying, it might be worth while to experiement with moving the sliders around. Thinking about it now, I sure do miss those days.

[expat]

Several years ago when MS was still supporting multiplayer a bunch of us got together quite often for fly-ins. Back then we flew everything under the sun including many of the helicopters which were available at that time. At one point we were doing Viet Nam ops which called for lots of helo time. I was taught to fly helicopters by Graham Viele (former helo mechanic), and Michael Davies (respsonsible for building many AS helicopters) and I remember at some point we came to the conclusion that it was easier and more realistic to fly helicopters in FSX if you pulled the control sliders to the left. As I recall, some of us felt that if the sliders were mid or right it created a problem with over-control in the sim. So for those who are interested in doing a bit of helo flying, it might be worth while to experiement with moving the sliders around. Thinking about it now, I sure do miss those days.

Remember my occasional joining you and that MP group with fond memories. Wish I could join one like it again.

Because of this thread, I can now land a helo for the first time in 10 years of FS! The "helitrim" gauge made a huge difference, and moving some sliders left. Also, the tip about using the cyclic for speed and collective for altitude, and the "flare" to level it to avoid the backward drift before set down. Even got that CH-46 I regretted buying out of the hangar and now doing moving carrier landings with no trouble. This is fun. Thanks all!



http://s18.postimg.org/wy68g46i1/ch46.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/q7pr6ojc5/full/)

[fliger747]

Something to remember in a conventional single rotor helicopter is that the aircraft is supported from the motor hub, with the CG significantly below. There is an appreciable pendulum effect as one slows into a hover, which one must compensate for. Think of a yo yo or plumbob on a string, note how it will pitch up (swing fwd) as you bring it into a "hover". This is where the active compensation of an inherently unstable system comes in.

Accurate controls are necessary with zero null zone. From flying FSX choppers I taught myself enough that transferred to real choppers for both my instructors to say I was the best student they ever had. Because of the lack of seat of the pants feel, FS may be harder!

[Bone]

Accurate controls are necessary with zero null zone. From flying FSX choppers I taught myself enough that transferred to real choppers for both my instructors to say I was the best student they ever had. Because of the lack of seat of the pants feel, FS may be harder!

That's funny, Tom, I had the same experience when I went for some chopper lessons. My instructor's comment after a few lessons was 'I really don't see what you need me for, lol'. And I agree with you, flying FS choppers is a touch more tricky than real.

[fliger747]

Steve:

There are however more ways than I could have possibly imagined to kill yourself in a real chopper. So far I haven't found auto rotation to be all that realistic in FSX, at least for low inertia rotor systems. I did map an engine kill switch to the joystick.

Cheers: Tom

[griphos]

Have you tried it in the Dodo? Not that realistic still, but much better than the others I think.