guns and armor on planes...

[dasuto247]

what part of DP deals with armor? Also, on the G4M1 Betty. What values should I use for the tail gun(cannon) ? Default is too accurate, the shoot down every plane that happens to cross tail, but I tried some values and it just nerfed the gun, would not even fire, just trying to find that balance. Armor question has to deal with F4F, esp the -3, that thing, engine esp catches on fire like a Zero sometimes.

[Allen]

Saddly CFS2 dosen't have an armor setting. All you can do is add more hitpoints to parts to make them stronger.

The accurately of guns is quite a mystery with CFS2....

[bearcat241]

I've never modified the Betty's stinger. Consider changing your tactics. A high-side pass, overhead pass, belly attack or head-on will do the trick every time (remember your CFS2 training modules). As much as possible, aim for the engines or the cockpit for a quick kill. If you have to approach from the rear, aim specifically for the tail cone first as if it were "pay dirt" and hose it good. That'll kill the gun to allow you to work over the rest of the target. This only applies when you're attacking a single, a pair or a small element of four or so.

For attacking a large formation from the rear you have to play it safe and come in hot from below or above for quick, accurate passes that take you through the formation with lots of energy to come around for another pass. You can't linger on the tails or they will collectively put you down. When chasing a large, retreating formation, dive well below their altitude and gain plenty of airspeed, then climb suddenly, pick a target, hit it where it hurts and lower your nose again to repeat on another. Let your wingmen be the punching bag that sits on the tails and takes all the punishment since this is all they know as programmed AI.

As for the armoring system parts, refer back to the tips i gave you on armoring ship parts in your recent VN Shoho thread. The same principles and methods apply to aircraft dp's as well. Increase the life points for the engine and setup the nose box (which houses the engine in the dp) to absorb 60%-75% of hits, with the engine absorbing 15-20 and the reservoirs taking the rest of the damage

[Wayland]

IIRC, there is a fix available to cut down the deadliness of the Betty gunner, but I can't remember it right off the top of my head. I'll go poke around in my archives and see if I can find it.

Steve

Edit: This is what I was looking for, specifically.

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?do=copyright&fid=48258

If that link doesn't work, try searching FlightSim library for CFS2 Betty DP

[Worthless]

Is this what you want?

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?15864-quot-Dumbing-Down-quot-the-Betty-Gunners&highlight=Betty

[Wayland]

Worthless, that looks like it would work too. The other file is from 2002.

[dasuto247]

I've never modified the Betty's stinger. Consider changing your tactics. A high-side pass, overhead pass, belly attack or head-on will do the trick every time (remember your CFS2 training modules). As much as possible, aim for the engines or the cockpit for a quick kill. If you have to approach from the rear, aim specifically for the tail cone first as if it were "pay dirt" and hose it good. That'll kill the gun to allow you to work over the rest of the target. This only applies when you're attacking a single, a pair or a small element of four or so.

For attacking a large formation from the rear you have to play it safe and come in hot from below or above for quick, accurate passes that take you through the formation with lots of energy to come around for another pass. You can't linger on the tails or they will collectively put you down. When chasing a large, retreating formation, dive well below their altitude and gain plenty of airspeed, then climb suddenly, pick a target, hit it where it hurts and lower your nose again to repeat on another. Let your wingmen be the punching bag that sits on the tails and takes all the punishment since this is all they know as programmed AI.

As for the armoring system parts, refer back to the tips i gave you on armoring ship parts in your recent VN Shoho thread. The same principles and methods apply to aircraft dp's as well. Increase the life points for the engine and setup the nose box (which houses the engine in the dp) to absorb 60%-75% of hits, with the engine absorbing 15-20 and the reservoirs taking the rest of the damage



I do use high side attacks etc, learned long ago not to run up on the Betty's tail.Problem is when in formation, they are sniper like.Example, I dove from 6500 feet in full power dive in F4F 3 from port side, ahead, in the dive scored hits exploded a betty, I pulled up 200 feet off water and went into power climb since had plenty of speed.I leveled off and dove in again set another on fire but had to make a hard turn to avoid collision which put me behind formation and one of the Betty's shot me to hell with sniper like effect from a distance.This happened a few times, so was not a fluke.Also, downed 8 of my fellow fighters.Now that can vary. Just trying to get it where its a threat but not a sniper like. Balance you know, gunners on bettys were good at times but not that good lol.

[dasuto247]

Is this what you want?

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?15864-quot-Dumbing-Down-quot-the-Betty-Gunners&highlight=Betty


I think so, wonder how those numbers will work with the G4M1 Betty.I'm using the Allen G4M1, which seems share most of its numbers with stock OH G4M2

[Allen]

I think all the Betty fix DPs do is cut the range that the AI will open fire down. The stock DP will have the AI open fire at 1000 meters. Give it is fired by a person the range should be around 500 or 600 meters.

[dasuto247]

I think all the Betty fix DPs do is cut the range that the AI will open fire down. The stock DP will have the AI open fire at 1000 meters. Give it is fired by a person the range should be around 500 or 600 meters.

Ah, I was wondering what the unit of measurement used was .I just changed it to 600, will see how that helps.Btw, want to compliment you on your G4M1, love the plane both as an opponent and to fly missions with.

[The B24 Guy]

Hi All,

Check the tailgun with DP edit.
change the spec. entry from cannon to gun.
Works like a charm.

Regards
B24Guy

[Wayland]

I've never actually used either, it only took one experience of approaching a formation of Betties from their 6... Have you ever tried to bite a porcupine on the butt? I never again came at them from behind.

Steve

[Oglivie]

If desired use notepad or similar text editor, open DP and edit the tail gunstation: slowing down rate of fire, decrease start-fire AI range, and /or reducing dice.

Sample tail gunstation:

; Tail Gun
gunstation.4=1,57,2,0.15,555,2,0.01,500,4,40,1d1*2 0,0,0.001,-13.873001,0,0,180,-25,25,25,-25,5

Rate of Fire: 0.15
AI start fire range: 500
Dice: 20

These settings could be modified further if results are not satisfactory.

Or with DPED utility adjust these fields:

[Allen]

Hi All,

Check the tailgun with DP edit.
change the spec. entry from cannon to gun.
Works like a charm.

Regards
B24Guy

The Trigger or Spec?

[dasuto247]

If desired use notepad or similar text editor, open DP and edit the tail gunstation: slowing down rate of fire, decrease start-fire AI range, and /or reducing dice.

Sample tail gunstation:

; Tail Gun
gunstation.4=1,57,2,0.15,555,2,0.01,500,4,40,1d1*2 0,0,0.001,-13.873001,0,0,180,-25,25,25,-25,5

Rate of Fire: 0.15
AI start fire range: 500
Dice: 20

These settings could be modified further if results are not satisfactory.

Or with DPED utility adjust these fields:

I'll give this a try.What is "dice" ? I assume you tested these settings? tail cannon still effective with these settings? I've made few changes but it seems to nerf the gun, where dont fire at all.

[Allen]

damage dice. This parameter determines the "hitting power" of each bullet fired from this weapon. The bullet's damage potential is measured by how many points will be subtracted from an aircraft's system strength each time it is hit by a bullet. The more points subtracted, the more powerful the projectile.

The damage dice is comprised of two parts: a random factor generator and an initial damage level. From the above entry, "14" is the number of points subtracted from an aircraft's system strength when hit by this bullet (when weapon strength is set to medium), and "4d4" is the random factor generator.

The "4d4" can be interpreted to mean that the initial damage level is multiplied by 4 random numbers between 1 and 4. A random factor generator of "1d6" would multiply the initial damage level by 1 random number between 1 and 6. A random factor generator of "1d1" would generate no random factor (it will always be "1") and simply uses the initial damage value.

The damage dice can be any number, so it's conceivable you could take out practically anything with a single shot by creating a weapon with a damage dice parameter set to 1d1*100000.


Sauce
http://www.cfgse.calebflerk.com/DP_Guns.htm

[The B24 Guy]

Hi Allen,

I got the box reversed. You need to change the box marked "Trigger" to "0 gun".
I think DPED has the boxes mis-labeled.

Regards,
B24Guy

[Allen]

Confirms The B24 Guy thought that Triger and Spec are reversed.

On a side note I as able to hex edit the DPED.exe and mostly fix the Triger and Spec box.

31749

I think this error came from Yusaku Homma during the tranlsation. If it is cool with Rami I could attach a fixed DPED.exe and he could update the DPED download here as well.

[Wayland]

I did a little checking and the US catalog of enemy ordnance lists the type 99-1 flexible cannon as having an effective range of 600-700 yards. ROF was 400-500 RPM. I've found other references to a ROF of up to 650 RPM. It used the short 20X82MM cartridge case, so looks like 1000 yards is reaching quite a bit. This was the stock Betty tail gun and the upper blister gun on the G3M2 Nell.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31754&stc=1
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31755&stc=1

Steve

[dasuto247]

Thanks for all the help everyone, figuring it out.

Now on the armor or hit points for planes.Which areas in dP deals with it.Say I want to bring the SBD 2 up to SBD3 specs , which was less vulnerable as had self sealing tanks and some armor.

[dasuto247]

Confirms The B24 Guy thought that Triger and Spec are reversed.

On a side note I as able to hex edit the DPED.exe and mostly fix the Triger and Spec box.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31749&stc=1

I think this error came from Yusaku Homma during the tranlsation. If it is cool with Rami I could attach a fixed DPED.exe and he could update the DPED download here as well.


Have you been able to attach it yet?

[Oglivie]

Link to a tutorial for CFS DP files, it may be usefull for CFS2 also.

http://www.hans-egebo.dk/Tutorial/damtut.htm

[Allen]

Was hoping Rami would pop in here but the read me seem to say that it is okay.

From Readme_E.txt
Please do not include this archive in any commercial or non commercial
packages without my permission.

Since my fix is not package it seem that it would be fine to upload. The attached DPED.exe is from the DPED Version 1.2 as it says in the Readme_E.txt. make sure to back up your current DPED.exe just to be safe.

31785

[The B24 Guy]

Thanks Allen

[Allen]

Your welcome.


Rami
If you alright with the fix could you put it into the DPED download and if not feel free to nuke my attachment.

[Rami]

Hey guys,

I'm sorry I came into this late...

[dasuto247]

Was hoping Rami would pop in here but the read me seem to say that it is okay.

From Readme_E.txt
Please do not include this archive in any commercial or non commercial
packages without my permission.

Since my fix is not package it seem that it would be fine to upload. The attached DPED.exe is from the DPED Version 1.2 as it says in the Readme_E.txt. make sure to back up your current DPED.exe just to be safe.

31785


Thanks Allen

[Rami]

http://www.sim-outhouse.comhttp://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/no_image.png
A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 2 Utilities Add-ons

Description: What is DPED ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is an editor for DP files. DP(Damage Point) files are used by Combat Flight Simulator(CFS) released by Microsoft. DP files
contain definitions of armaments and damage points of each planes in CFS.

This version of DPED can handle CFS2's DP files.

What is DPED's special feature ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DPED can handle not only armaments. It can also handle all other DP parameters.

You may select armaments from a list or you may add NEW armament settings to the list.

You may handle related sections like [SYSTEMS] and [STRINGS] in one window.

The hit boxes defined in [BOXMAPS], the armaments defined in [GUNS] and the payloads points defined in [HARDPOINT] are shown in the blue print window so that you can check and move those positions visually.

"CUT", "COPY", "PASTE" functions are available in each windows.

You can see the visual model of add-on planes in 'Blue-Print' screen not only CFS addons but also FS2K or FS98 addons!

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit CFS2 .dp editor.zip (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?linkid=20511&catid=49)
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.