Carenado Dornier DO228

[Firekitten]

Carenado announce Dornier DO228...

Winning.

https://www.facebook.com/Carenado

[Naismith]

Now that is a pleasant surprise.

[b747]

Great choice. Gonna pick that up hope it comes this year

[SeanTK]

Cool! Hopefully the paint kit will be friendlier than their others have been lately.
They also seem more responsive to customer support inquiries now too.

[Christoph_T]

Now that's music to my ears:applause:
Looking forward to it.
Hopefully not to expensive...

[Bushpounder]

Cool! Hopefully the paint kit will be friendlier than their others have been lately.
They also seem more responsive to customer support inquiries now too.

Agree!!! They need to work on the repaint issue.

Don

[Timbohobo]

At last someone does the Do228! my second fav bush plane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Azye_3Ijg

[donnybalonny]

Interesting.
The DO228 has Garreth turbines. I think its the first time Carenado does a Garreth. I hope they simulate it well and not just another default FSX turboprop.
The AC is clearly different as most things from Dornier. Here you have the Polar expedition version standing outside at the Dornier Museum in Friedrichshafen. Small but nice museum and as far as I remember, relatively cheap entrance.

http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah224/donnybalonny/DSCN0461_zpstjulr6rh.jpg

[IanP]

Just a tiny correction, but it's a (Honeywell) Garrett, no "h". ;)

This is the other aircraft that's licensed to use Lukla, so Aerosoft's Twotter might finally be about to get some company in the Himalayan peaks...

Me likey. :)

Ian P.

[hairyspin]

This is the other aircraft that's licensed to use Lukla...

Yes...

http://aviation-safety.net/photodata/78673_4cc7188c05552DSC00391.JPG

[Daveroo]

ouch....no breaks?......thats a big rock wall there..................

[SeanTK]

ouch....no breaks?......thats a big rock wall there..................

Respectfully, you mean "brakes" as the aircraft is very much broken. :)

Yes, a brake failure occurred. See the following:

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=78673

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAKlKv153WU

[Daveroo]

Respectfully, you mean "brakes" as the aircraft is very much broken. :)

Yes, a brake failure occurred. See the following:

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=78673

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAKlKv153WU

lol..yes..i meant brakes......ps i typed breaks again...lol

[Jafo]

Not as STOL as they thought ...;)

[jeansy]

I cant see the "issue" with repainting

Thats the way they have done in the past and thats the way the will continue to do in the future

Repeated posts about no paintkit or lack of is rubbish, people just have to change their painting style

[mgr]

Hello Jeansy,


I cant see the "issue" with repainting
Thats the way they have done in the past and thats the way the will continue to do in the future
Repeated posts about no paintkit or lack of is rubbish, people just have to change their painting style

LOL, seems you never tried to repaint a aircraft of theres? I've so i know what i'm talking about. :wavey:

The problem is not a lack of repaintkit, the problem is the way the textures on average are mapped onto the model. Drawing simple lines across the fuselage, esspecially doors/panels etc, is a nightmare, due to different scaling and streching.

This is not Carenado bashing, just pointing out, that there is a reason why there are relatively few or none repaints of there models available on the normal sites.

Regards,

Macel

[Bushpounder]

110% correct, Macel. This is one of their weaknesses. As I wrote somewhere else, these planes have more parts for the fuselage than TWA #800. Some folks are changing the colors of existing paints and changing registrations, but that is not repainting in my book. That is a mild version of it. Also as you said, the scaling and stretching varies from port to starboard. Not a good way to do things in my book. It is so easy for them to change this.

Don

[IanP]

One of the tricks I really like about Blender is that on the UV sheet, you can just hit ctrl-a and it will average out the scale (it's actually called "average normals") on every selected component. I use it a lot, when I'm modelling, to avoid exactly issues like this.

Cheers,

Ian P.

[Firekitten]

Carenado use a pelt unwrap to create their UV map. I suspect with that techniquem they're texturing in zbrush or substance painter, not photoshop. Both are 3d rendered painting programs, so the map doesn't matter to them. Most games use similar techniques these days, flightsim is one of the last, but by its nature, needs to be repaintable.... its the community/personal side. It matters. Carenado used to care... recently its just gotten awful. Their mapping sucks now.

[hairyspin]

Carenado use a pelt unwrap to create their UV map. I suspect with that techniquem they're texturing in zbrush or substance painter, not photoshop. Both are 3d rendered painting programs, so the map doesn't matter to them.

Exactly. It's the pelt unwrap that's the problem.

[jeansy]

Hello Jeansy,



LOL, seems you never tried to repaint a aircraft of theres? I've so i know what i'm talking about. :wavey:

The problem is not a lack of repaintkit, the problem is the way the textures on average are mapped onto the model. Drawing simple lines across the fuselage, esspecially doors/panels etc, is a nightmare, due to different scaling and streching.

This is not Carenado bashing, just pointing out, that there is a reason why there are relatively few or none repaints of there models available on the normal sites.

Regards,

Macel


Your right ive never painted a model of their sister company or any other in recent years................

Most paint kits and mapping these days have become more complex compared the more simplistic pks like virtavia. A paint kit is a paint kit just be greatful you have permissions to repaint it and have a paintkit.

I personally dont like the layout of justflight /aeroplane heaven paintkits but i do t repeatedly bitch and moan on each of thier threads. Bitching and moaning about something thats not going to change every thread is becoming boring, my suggestion instead of wasting time repeating posts use that time to learn the paint kit or surf the internet for the large number of paints that have been done for them just because theyre not uploaded to SOH doesnt mean they dont exist i know of several painters here who do upload elsewhere

[Firekitten]

incorrect.

Mapping CAN be more complex... in fact you can map the crap out of it doing any little bit you like, when you're texturing in a live 3d program and don't give a toss about it being repaintable, sure, fine. They can get more more complex.


Pelt Maps for aircraft is somewhat lazy. Doing 'simple' mapping isn't worse, in fact, it can be better for both texture artist and repainters.

A2A do VERY well laid out mapping, because their work is done by artists still, not simply burning baking and photo texturing a model like Carenado.

Logical and well laid out is the sign of a development team that care about the community getting involved and knowing simmers will want to paint their aircraft. If anything, it can sell more copies.

Carenado have historically never done paint kits... its kinda hard to have a paint kit from color corrected photo texture... ;) And historically have never given a toss about the community anyway releasing whatever they want without even a hint of listening to anyone.

Great models, great great great models... I love flying their aircraft, but they certainly only care about pumping aircraft out fast. Honestly, I've been put off recently... their prices have skyrocketed, and the systems and quality isn't that high for the dollar value.

meh.


As a developer, the 'oh maps will have to be complex for high detail' argument is so utterly bull this post will be steaming for a week.

[jeansy]

incorrect.

Mapping CAN be more complex... in fact you can map the crap out of it doing any little bit you like, when you're texturing in a live 3d program and don't give a toss about it being repaintable, sure, fine. They can get more more complex.


Pelt Maps for aircraft is somewhat lazy. Doing 'simple' mapping isn't worse, in fact, it can be better for both texture artist and repainters.

A2A do VERY well laid out mapping, because their work is done by artists still, not simply burning baking and photo texturing a model like Carenado.

Logical and well laid out is the sign of a development team that care about the community getting involved and knowing simmers will want to paint their aircraft. If anything, it can sell more copies.

Carenado have historically never done paint kits... its kinda hard to have a paint kit from color corrected photo texture... ;) And historically have never given a toss about the community anyway releasing whatever they want without even a hint of listening to anyone.

Great models, great great great models... I love flying their aircraft, but they certainly only care about pumping aircraft out fast. Honestly, I've been put off recently... their prices have skyrocketed, and the systems and quality isn't that high for the dollar value.

meh.


As a developer, the 'oh maps will have to be complex for high detail' argument is so utterly bull this post will be steaming for a week.

And?

Like i said if you dont like it dont worry about it and move on

for the several developers ive painted for release paints and post releases ive seen all sorts of mapping quailties for the several hundred paints ive done in recent years ive had to learn and adopt new styles and techniques

When it come down to painting, its up to the painter to work with what they have

just be greatful you have a template in some form or another

[Firekitten]

That argument would hold water, but with pelt mapping parts at different scales and angles, if a developer handed me that to work with, I'd tell them to redo it... its overly complex and extending the amount of time required for you to do your job. Its also a waste of time.

If you feel proud of doing carenado repaints, good job. I take a look at their recent maps and just walk off laughing.

[jeansy]

That argument would hold water, but with pelt mapping parts at different scales and angles, if a developer handed me that to work with, I'd tell them to redo it... its overly complex and extending the amount of time required for you to do your job. Its also a waste of time.

If you feel proud of doing carenado repaints, good job. I take a look at their recent maps and just walk off laughing.


Yep for sure its time consuming but to say its unpaintable or theres next to no 3rd party paints is rubbish

Several hours and several cups of coffee can result in anything as long as you have a template in any form

[Firekitten]

I never said there weren't any 3rd party paints, but there are hardly any since the switch to pelt mapping on carenado planes, which is a sign of how unfriendly it is.

Possible? sure, anything is. But its far more time consuming to work with pelt mapped parts than anything else. The fact its flat textures with no paint kit isn't an issue, but different scaled parts and weird rotations and UV unwraps is unnecessary and simply lazy.

[jeansy]

Everyone does things differently,

However you missed my point again

[Bushpounder]

Firekitten, you are on target with your assessment. Jeansy - I disagree with one statement - the worst thing to do is to stay quiet and move on. If one wants something changed, one has to voice it - a lot! Maybe when they notice sales dropping, they may listen. Maybe not. They have a following of many strata. I believe some would buy their products if they flew backwards! Don't get me wrong - I do own many, many, many of their planes. They are some of the nicest (less a few bugs here and there) ever made. However, they need to listen to the consumers. A good business is customer driven, not the other way around.

Don

[jeansy]

People have been complaining about their paintkits for over 10yrs and nothing has changed

We all know what the templates or paintkits are like but Every single careando or alabeo thread there is always people whinging about paintkits and its getting long in the tooth to read

How about instead of complaining here, email directly if you think complaining will fix it

[hairyspin]

I suspect Alabeo's modelling team doesn't know much about mapping the traditional way or hasn't the time to spend on it. Using automatic unwrappers like Pelt together with directly painting the model in Substance Painter or suchlike gives a quick and very dirty solution for FS textures: save as .dds and thank you ma'am. The result is a texture or textures, not what most repainters would call a paintkit.

Other developers produce a layered, labelled Photoshop file with lettering, dirt, livery lines etc on separate layers so repainters can edit as much or as little as they please. Unlike the pelt-unwrapped method the individual parts and areas are easily identified and the whole thing can look like a 3-view drawing of the aircraft. That's worthy of the name paintkit.

Maybe the Dornier will be different. We can only hope.

[Firekitten]

People have been complaining about their paintkits for over 10yrs and nothing has changed

We all know what the templates or paintkits are like but Every single careando or alabeo thread there is always people whinging about paintkits and its getting long in the tooth to read

How about instead of complaining here, email directly if you think complaining will fix it

What you insist on ignoring is the point we're all making in the CHANGE of their mapping from simply flat white aircraft textures mapped in the usual way (pre 337) to post 337 mapping, which is shrunk, rotated, twisted, and opened up like an apple skin (pelt mapping technique)

Their technique changed, I suspect due to a shift from regular texture techniques to an automated system to allow them to increase output.

Great, but it simply means the one redeeming feature, regular mapping on the flat white aircraft is now gone. A flat aircraft can be painted merrily.

One that is twisted and warped you yourself must admit is a sodding pig to work with.


Feel free to sit here and support them all you wish, nonchalantly dismissing anything anyone here says to make yourself feel like a superior repainter, but As someone that works in this crap, it is LAZY, and unnecessary. With their prices going up and quality of product staying fairly plateaued, in fact, the texture mapping quality has taken a nose dive as they switched production technique.

I like their aircraft, I really do. I think they make some awesome ones, this one is the same... can't wait for a decent DO228.

It's still going to have an utterly f***ed up set of base texture mapping making custom paints take hours longer than it should.