New Model - USS Wasp (CV-7) released by Allen!

[Rami]

Hey guys,

Working on some Mediterranean missions, the texture of the USS Wasp just looked "off" or incomplete to me. Can someone confirm that this is what it is supposed to look like?

Thanks in advance,

[Allen]

It looks too bright...

[Shadow Wolf 07]

The 5" gun turrets seem to be missing, nor are the other AA guns visible. And from what I saw when Rami shared screens with me on skype, there was no deck number.

[TheBookie]

CV-7 USS Wasp did not have 5" gun turrets and was basically a smaller version of the Yorktown class and was between 14000 and 15000 tons.Since it was smaller it had 2 elevators on the deck and 1 on the side which folded up.It was the first US carrier to have an elevator on the side. The numbers of the deck were usually painted over.If you look at the hull from the side you will see it has a 2 tone camo which is how it was painted.

[Wayland]

Wasp didn't have turrets. she had 2 5" single unshielded mounts on each quarter. Also 16 1.1 quad mounts and 24 .5in watercooled MG mounts. See general plan booklet at HNSA.org. http://www.hnsa.org/resources/manuals-documents/booklets-of-general-plans-online/

Steve

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Rami, I got home and took these:

Kinda bare next to Collin's or Usio's beauties, but then, much better than stock. :applause:

[Allen]

The VN model is missing alot. I did look at it as I thought it look bright. It also looks to be a polygon hog as Model Converter X shows a small Yorktown class carrer hidden inside the model.

I had a ton of free time to try to make a CV-7 of my own. I've wanted to slam my head into the keyboard so many times. I really have no idea what I'm doing when it come to ships.

29352

I'm not sure if I can get it done but if not I will see if stuart277 could take it and finish it up.

[Allen]

After way too much work and head hitting things are looking good...

2946929470

Now for the fun of messing with platform.0 and DPs... Oh and LODs... :banghead:

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Fine work Allen. Lookin good! :applause:

[Rami]

Allen,

Holy cow! :jawdrop: She's looking fantastic! Thank you so much for working on this! :applouse:

[dasuto247]

After way too much work and head hitting things are looking good...

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29469&stc=1http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29470&stc=1

Now for the fun of messing with platform.0 and DPs... Oh and LODs... :banghead:

The work you do is impressive and really helps the sim along Allen.My CVE campaign(starring your CVE's) is coming along great, especially with the FM 2.Thanks again:applause:

[Worthless]

Ahhh, another great boat builder. First Class Allen.

[Devildog73]

WOW :jump: Allen!

That deck actually looks wide enough to handle some static a/c to make it look more realistic.
Is it also long enough to actually take off from mid-ship?

[Allen]

It should be close to the right size. I used the length and width from wiki. It is 741 ft 3 in (225.93 m) by 109 ft (33 m). Flight deck is runs the full length so it is 741 ft+ long. Not sure if mid-ship take off could be done with the stock aircraft as they don't have flaps that generate lift.

I'm attaching the ship for you or any one else to try out. DP is a hit box edit of the stock Enterprise. I don't think any one knows how CFS2 ship DP works so this will have to do.

29488

[Shadow Wolf 07]

She works fine so far...

I landed okay;;; When you finish, I wil use it in at least one of my campaigns that I am redoing. Thanks!

[Devildog73]

She works fine so far...

I landed okay;;; When you finish, I wil use it in at least one of my campaigns that I am redoing. Thanks!

:applause::ernaehrung004:

[Rami]

Allen,

She now has a proud place in Operation Bowery. Thanks for taking the ball and running with it, I owe you one! :very_drunk:

[crashaz]

Fantastic work!! Our Wasp version was done around 12 years ago... imagine what a pain it was back then with the knowledge not all out there ... that there is now. LOL! Anyways very nice version. I am in the beginning stages of rebuilding all the BB's to take advantages of sim enhancements.... more polys.... LODs ... more details. Things look promising in P3D. ;)

[Allen]

Fantastic work!! Our Wasp version was done around 12 years ago... imagine what a pain it was back then with the knowledge not all out there ... that there is now. LOL! Anyways very nice version. I am in the beginning stages of rebuilding all the BB's to take advantages of sim enhancements.... more polys.... LODs ... more details. Things look promising in P3D. ;)

I did think about trying to update the your Wasp model but with the tower all wrong so I made the choice to start from next to scrach. I used the stock CV-6 hull as a base in hopes that I could make use of the stock textures for the whole model but that quickly failed.

Model of the model was done from the 3 view that I used for the texture. I did have to use Wayland link to find the plans so I could find out how the columns at the bow and sten where done.

All other that have tested the ship

Is the ship working right for you?

[Rami]

Allen,

So far, she is without flaws. I've yet to have any issues. :very_drunk:

[dombral]

excellent modèle la peinture est très réussie
voici quelques nouvelles peintures pour US ships anciens

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29528&stc=1http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29524&stc=1http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29526&stc=1http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29525&stc=1

[Allen]

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/soh_ftp/uploads/imageuploads/687114435831161242.jpg
A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 2 Ships Add-Ons

Description: USS Wasp (CV-7) as she was in 1942. The Wasp would spend most of World War II in the Atlantic but after the losses at Coral Sea and Midway she was sent to the Pacific and in September 1942 she was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine.

Uncontrollable fires forced the crew to abandon ship and she was scuttled.

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit USS Wasp (CV-7).zip (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?linkid=20261&catid=42)
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

[dasuto247]

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/soh_ftp/uploads/imageuploads/687114435831161242.jpg
A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 2 Ships Add-Ons

Description: USS Wasp (CV-7) as she was in 1942. The Wasp would spend most of World War II in the Atlantic but after the losses at Coral Sea and Midway she was sent to the Pacific and in September 1942 she was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine.

Uncontrollable fires forced the crew to abandon ship and she was scuttled.

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit USS Wasp (CV-7).zip (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?linkid=20261&catid=42)
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.


Is this any different that the version you posted in a thread the other day?

[Rami]

Allen,

Thank you for addressing my question with this unexpected and most appreciated gift. I love this new model! :very_drunk: :applause: :medals: :applouse:

[dombral]

suite



http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29549&stc=1http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29551&stc=1http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29552&stc=1http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29553&stc=1

[kelticheart]

Allen, you are something else! You have no limits!


Thank you!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[dasuto247]

Allen, Any chance you could fix this Lexington up? Definitely missing an up to date Lex for Coral Sea. I may not be aware of some others out there but you did a great job with the Wasp.

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Well, if favors are being asked: I am redoing my "USS Saratoga CV 3" campaign and the VN Saratoga could use a new face too... Please? :wiggle: Again, fantastic work!

[Allen]

I think Rami messed up as the model is not a re-build. Most of the model is all new. I used the Hull and Boat Crane from the SHA_ENTERPRISE_CV-6 model. Not sure how that would work as a re-build. I tried to the SHA_ENTERPRISE_CV-6 model but it couldn't be made to work so everthing from the aft main deck up was delated but for Boat Crane.

[Rami]

I think Rami messed up as the model is not a re-build.

Allen,

Point taken, but a thanks for the sticky and a polite PM request would have been just ducky. :p87:

[Allen]

I'm not saying you did any thing wrong. Just a mistake/misunderstanig.

[Rami]

Allen,

Sorry, just a REALLY bad day. I deleted my original post and softened it before I posted that one. My apologies...:very_drunk:

[Allen]

The bad day bug must be going around. Not have a good one my self.

[dasuto247]

Allen, Any chance you could fix VN Lex up? Definitely missing an up to date Lex for Coral Sea. I may not be aware of some others out there but you did a great job with the Wasp.

The ship itself seems okay, the texture is issue, its painted in the later war gray scheme , lex was sunk before.

[Allen]

I found the VN Lex and VN_Sara. Both are not texture for the most part. Only the flight deck is texture for both model. The rest is done by material color.

[dasuto247]

I found the VN Lex and VN_Sara. Both are not texture for the most part. Only the flight deck is texture for both model. The rest is done by material color.


Ah, the deck color is the major issue if I remember.The color is fine for Saratoga after early part of war.

[Allen]

The Lex was just un-stained wood wasn't? If yes you can go to the stock SHA_ENTERPRISE_CV-6 and copy the ent_deck.bmp and paste it into the VN Lex Texture folder. Delet the saradeck.bmp and re-name the just copied ent_deck.bmp to saradeck.bmp

[TheBookie]

At Coral Sea Lexington was painted Sea Blue on all vertical surfaces and Deck Blue on all horizontal surfaces including the deck.I just looked it up to make sure.Most USN ships at the time had either a blue or grey deck

[dasuto247]

At Coral Sea Lexington was painted Sea Blue on all vertical surfaces and Deck Blue on all horizontal surfaces including the deck.I just looked it up to make sure.Most USN ships at the time had either a blue or grey deck


Interesting

[dasuto247]

The Lex was just un-stained wood wasn't? If yes you can go to the stock SHA_ENTERPRISE_CV-6 and copy the ent_deck.bmp and paste it into the VN Lex Texture folder. Delet the saradeck.bmp and re-name the just copied ent_deck.bmp to saradeck.bmp

Worked well, thanks.The hull and island stick out a bit but it works.I modified the DP so could take damage, just played through the may 8 air attack I built in MB(releasing soon), lots of fun.

[stuart277]

The VN model is missing alot. I did look at it as I thought it look bright. It also looks to be a polygon hog as Model Converter X shows a small Yorktown class carrer hidden inside the model.

I had a ton of free time to try to make a CV-7 of my own. I've wanted to slam my head into the keyboard so many times. I really have no idea what I'm doing when it come to ships.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29352&stc=1

I'm not sure if I can get it done but if not I will see if stuart277 could take it and finish it up.


Hi Allen
I checked out the VN Wasp.
I does indeeed have a baby Yorktown in the pouch. It could be an Alien??
How interesting.
PS I like your new ship.:applause::applause::applause:
I will whip up a dp file this evening.
Cheers
Stuart

[Captain Kurt]

Very nice Allen. She had a stained deck in 1942. See the pic. Regardless of how she is painted it's a nice model. :mixed-smiley-010:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29644&stc=1

[Allen]

The Wasp has the blue deck. I was wondering if the Lex was still wood at coral sea. It also looks like the Wasp at the time of the pic is missing the quad 40s on the port side.

[TheBookie]

The Wasp has the blue deck. I was wondering if the Lex was still wood at coral sea. It also looks like the Wasp at the time of the pic is missing the quad 40s on the port side.

Allen,

I already answered the question of the colors of the Lexington at the Coral Sea in an earlier post in this thread.

[Allen]

I saw that too.

[dasuto247]

Allen,

I already answered the question of the colors of the Lexington at the Coral Sea in an earlier post in this thread.


Thanks for confirming that.Any idea when it went "gray". Painted differently in Feb 42 during O Hare's famous encounter off Rabaul.What about the Lae missions?

[TheBookie]

Thanks for confirming that.Any idea when it went "gray". Painted differently in Feb 42 during O Hare's famous encounter off Rabaul.What about the Lae missions?

From what I read Lexington was Sea Blue before Coral Sea but a different shade of it and the deck was Deck Blue.This scheme called ms 11 started September 1941.

[stuart277]

Hi Allen
I have re-done the DP for the CV-7 Wasp.
I have used a different technique.
Let me know what you think.
Cheers
Stuart

29700

[Allen]

I'm not sure what to think about ship DPs. The way they take damge is quite confusing to me. I'm looking at the DP now. I do hope you where able to get the model into gMax to do the guns and boxes. Another thing is that I see you added all of the 20mm and this may become over kill in game.

[stuart277]

Hi Allen
I do not really understand how ships take damage either.
There are a few things that I use as a guide:
I look at the damage points and try to relate them to the ships displacement.
Wasp is about 15000t, so main systems are about 15000, as shown in red.
Hull systems are more vulnerable to torpedo damage so I make them a little more, as shown in green.
system.0=%system_name.0%,15000,-1
system.1=%system_name.1%,15000,-2
system.2=%system_name.2%,15000,-3
system.3=%system_name.3%,15000,-4
system.4=%system_name.4%,15000,-5
system.5=%system_name.5%,15000,-6
system.6=%system_name.6%,15000,-7
system.7=%system_name.7%,15000,-8
system.8=%system_name.8%,15000,-9
system.9=%system_name.9%,15000,-10
system.10=%system_name.10%,15000,-11
system.11=%system_name.11%,15000,-12
system.12=%system_name.12%,15000,-13
system.13=%system_name.13%,15000,-14
system.14=%system_name.14%,15000,-15
system.15=%system_name.15%,15000,-16
system.16=%system_name.16%,20000,-17
system.17=%system_name.17%,20000,-18
system.18=%system_name.18%,20000,-19
system.19=%system_name.19%,20000,-20
system.20=%system_name.20%,20000,-21
system.21=%system_name.21%,20000,-22
system.22=%system_name.22%,20000,-23
system.23=%system_name.23%,20000,-24
system.24=%system_name.24%,10000,-25
system.25=%system_name.25%,10000,-26
system.26=%system_name.26%,10000,-27
system.27=%system_name.27%,10000,-28
system.28=%system_name.28%,10000,-29
system.29=%system_name.29%,10000,-30
system.30=%system_name.30%,100,-31
system.31=%system_name.31%,100,-32
system.32=%system_name.32%,100,-33
system.33=%system_name.33%,100,-34
system.34=%system_name.34%,100,-35
system.35=%system_name.35%,100,-36
system.36=%system_name.36%,100,-37
system.37=%system_name.37%,100,-38
system.38=%system_name.38%,100,-39
system.39=%system_name.39%,100,-40
system.40=%system_name.40%,100,-41
system.41=%system_name.41%,10000,-42
system.42=%system_name.42%,10000,-43
system.43=%system_name.43%,10000,-44
system.44=%system_name.44%,10000,-45
system.45=%system_name.45%,10000,-46
system.46=%system_name.46%,10000,-47
system.47=%system_name.47%,10000,-48
system.48=%system_name.48%,10000,-49
system.49=%system_name.49%,10000,-50
system.50=%system_name.50%,10000,-51
system.51=%system_name.51%,10000,-52
system.52=%system_name.52%,10000,-53
system.53=%system_name.53%,10000,-54
system.54=%system_name.54%,10000,-55
system.55=%system_name.55%,100,-56
system.56=%system_name.56%,100,-57
system.57=%system_name.57%,100,-58

I do not know what 'sinker' means.
I am also unclear on how the 'damage ratio' works when using DPEdit.

With regard to the Wasp AA, I have opened it in GMAx and the gun positioning is pretty accurate.
I reduced the range of the 20mm guns to 1500m as they were deadly at 3500m.
The 20mm guns are set as 'blocks' of 5, 7 and 11, reflecting their position on the ship. I did this to reduce the size of the DP file (which may be a problem if it is too large).
Cheers
Stuart

[dasuto247]

Hi Allen
I do not really understand how ships take damage either.
There are a few things that I use as a guide:
I look at the damage points and try to relate them to the ships displacement.
Wasp is about 15000t, so main systems are about 15000, as shown in red.
Hull systems are more vulnerable to torpedo damage so I make them a little more, as shown in green.
system.0=%system_name.0%,15000,-1
system.1=%system_name.1%,15000,-2
system.2=%system_name.2%,15000,-3
system.3=%system_name.3%,15000,-4
system.4=%system_name.4%,15000,-5
system.5=%system_name.5%,15000,-6
system.6=%system_name.6%,15000,-7
system.7=%system_name.7%,15000,-8
system.8=%system_name.8%,15000,-9
system.9=%system_name.9%,15000,-10
system.10=%system_name.10%,15000,-11
system.11=%system_name.11%,15000,-12
system.12=%system_name.12%,15000,-13
system.13=%system_name.13%,15000,-14
system.14=%system_name.14%,15000,-15
system.15=%system_name.15%,15000,-16
system.16=%system_name.16%,20000,-17
system.17=%system_name.17%,20000,-18
system.18=%system_name.18%,20000,-19
system.19=%system_name.19%,20000,-20
system.20=%system_name.20%,20000,-21
system.21=%system_name.21%,20000,-22
system.22=%system_name.22%,20000,-23
system.23=%system_name.23%,20000,-24
system.24=%system_name.24%,10000,-25
system.25=%system_name.25%,10000,-26
system.26=%system_name.26%,10000,-27
system.27=%system_name.27%,10000,-28
system.28=%system_name.28%,10000,-29
system.29=%system_name.29%,10000,-30
system.30=%system_name.30%,100,-31
system.31=%system_name.31%,100,-32
system.32=%system_name.32%,100,-33
system.33=%system_name.33%,100,-34
system.34=%system_name.34%,100,-35
system.35=%system_name.35%,100,-36
system.36=%system_name.36%,100,-37
system.37=%system_name.37%,100,-38
system.38=%system_name.38%,100,-39
system.39=%system_name.39%,100,-40
system.40=%system_name.40%,100,-41
system.41=%system_name.41%,10000,-42
system.42=%system_name.42%,10000,-43
system.43=%system_name.43%,10000,-44
system.44=%system_name.44%,10000,-45
system.45=%system_name.45%,10000,-46
system.46=%system_name.46%,10000,-47
system.47=%system_name.47%,10000,-48
system.48=%system_name.48%,10000,-49
system.49=%system_name.49%,10000,-50
system.50=%system_name.50%,10000,-51
system.51=%system_name.51%,10000,-52
system.52=%system_name.52%,10000,-53
system.53=%system_name.53%,10000,-54
system.54=%system_name.54%,10000,-55
system.55=%system_name.55%,100,-56
system.56=%system_name.56%,100,-57
system.57=%system_name.57%,100,-58

I do not know what 'sinker' means.
I am also unclear on how the 'damage ratio' works when using DPEdit.

With regard to the Wasp AA, I have opened it in GMAx and the gun positioning is pretty accurate.
I reduced the range of the 20mm guns to 1500m as they were deadly at 3500m.
The 20mm guns are set as 'blocks' of 5, 7 and 11, reflecting their position on the ship. I did this to reduce the size of the DP file (which may be a problem if it is too large).
Cheers
Stuart

I'm not expert, still learning but was told had to change the hit points on the sinker as well.I did with for the IJN Shoho as well as others, can take a lot of damage now.Just testing to get it from being practically invincible.

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Have you compared the dps in Pen32Win's afshipdp0307 and AF_Ship_Upgrade_II to what you already have? I've found them to be very good. They are especially a good adjutment for the extremly rated JMK ships (Usio's). Many others have been "hardened" or made to take heavier damage, where necessary.

[Allen]

I think you have the hull the wrong way. The hulls should have a lower nummber. This will give it less life points/hit points and make it sink with fewer hits.

'damage ratio' is just the probability that each part has of being hit by bullets/other weapons. Say for airplanes it is vary likely that you will hit the Port Wing Structure with bullets VS the Port Wing Guns. So Port Wing Structure may have something like 50% chance of being hit while the Port Wing Guns may only have a 10% chance of being it.

One thing about range. Range is only for when they open fire. They will keep firing at targes that move out of range and be just as deadly.

[bearcat241]

'damage ratio' is just the probability that each part has of being hit by bullets/other weapons. Say for airplanes it is vary likely that you will hit the Port Wing Structure with bullets VS the Port Wing Guns. So Port Wing Structure may have something like 50% chance of being hit while the Port Wing Guns may only have a 10% chance of being it.

That's the basic premise behind the damage ratio thinking. I'm sure that must have been in the minds of the designers when they concocted this damage system, but the actual algorithm within the damage.dll module that manages real time damage seems to work that premise by simply distributing the dice of a weapon throughout a damage box according to these ratios.

Let's say that multiple bullets or shells strikes an inner wing box. The box includes a wing structure system part that has a 60% ratio, a gun that has 10%, aileron cable with 5%, landing gear with 15% and flaps at 10% for a total of 100%. Since each part has not been given an actual location within the box (unless the modder does this deliberately, like a fuel tank or engine), the damage dice of each bullet or shell, let's say 1d1*25 for example, will be distributed to the life points allocation of each part according to their respective ratios, with the wing structure part absorbing most of the damage at 60%. So, of the points value of 25 in each and every round, the wing structure system part gets 60%, the gun gets 10%, the aileron cable gets 5%, the landing gear gets 15% and the flaps get 10%. As the compounded dices of multiple rounds striking the box accumulate, the parts experience failure as they reach their life point allocations.

Ever wondered why you might have your plane spinning out of control or flying with a severe wing dip after taking a lot of fire to a wing without the wing actually breaking off, even though it was designed with breaking parts? Its likely because the life points allocations of the aileron and/or aileron cable was reached 100% before the allocation of the wing structure, which is set to visually separate at 100% damage. These minor parts usually have very low life point allowances, so they break sooner than parts with larger allowances.

[UncleTgt]

Something I once read on Caleb's guide stuck with me, although I've not tried it for effect in any dp file I've hacked.

He mentions that the BOXMAPS total can be less than 100%, the inference being that the missing portion of ALL hits are discarded (& cause no reduction in lifepoints). This suggests a possible way of introducing robustness or armouring into some parts of a dp file, in that it will automatically discard this missing %age from ALL ordnance hitting that particular box.

as BC indicates above, it's the EFFECTS of losing those small lifepoint items that creates the trouble in many cases. For aircraft it can be control cables, Engine power, Pilot wounds etc., but unfortunately we don't seem to have the same options with ships (rudder would've been a good one, Fire Control, Propulsion etc.)

The dp file structure MS created was an immensely flexible way of modelling target damage, but who has the time to try all these potential variables out these days?

[Allen]

bearcat241
Never read or seen that before. I will have to test that my self.

As for the "plane spinning out of control or flying with a severe wing dip" bit. My testing say it has to do with Port/Starboard Wing Tip Structure. A single bullet for the smallest guns ( 30 Cal, 303 Cal and 7.7 mm) will cause the wing to dip and a few will become fatal.

Because of this most of the aircraft I have made I don't have the Port/Starboard Wing Tip Structure listed in any of the Port/Starboard Wing boxes. Wing Tips have there own vary small box and just Port/Starboard Wing Tip Structure listed.