Windows 10 and FSX

[rewasiuk]

Windows 10 will be a free upgrade from our friends at Microsoft probably in the fall of 2015. Hard to say how FSX is going to run on this new OS. All we can do is to hope that FSX runs as well on 10 as it did on 7.

[Daveroo]

this prompts me to ask,when this upgrade comes..will 10 just install over what we have?..or do we have to lose everything and reinstall FSX?...i dont want to go through what i just did...took me almost 4 weeks to get it all together..

[Terry]

It comes out in July and there should be no re-installs.

[Paul Domingue]

Is this an upgrade for all supported versions of Windows and since when does Microsoft give something for free? There must be a catch.

[navin johnson]

Is this an upgrade for all supported versions of Windows and since when does Microsoft give something for free? There must be a catch.


this. exactly, was my first thought

[Wayland]

I have heard from a Win10 beta tester that it will not let you go back to your old operating system once it's installed. I don't know if this is true, but it would fit with Microbrain's business model. No dual boot either. If you get Win10, it sounds like you are stuck with it. If, and that's a very BIG if, I install Win10, it will be on a dedicated W10 system and not anywhere near either of my daily use 'puters. Agzin, I have no idea if this is true, but I for one am not going to chance it until the general public starts reporting on it "in service".

Steve

[Bjoern]

From what I know, Windows 10 is going to be the last "real" Windows. Everything beyond that is just going to be an upgradeable core operating system acting as a provider for comprehensive cloud-based services across devices. Think akin to Apple, who provide the same OS for all their devices.

I'm looking forward to 10 - provided I can make BBLean run to avoid any kind of unnecessary UI mumbo jumbo.

[hairyspin]

Chuckle chuckle! Is it Groundhog Day, again?

[ncooper]

I have heard from a Win10 beta tester that it will not let you go back to your old operating system once it's installed. I don't know if this is true, but it would fit with Microbrain's business model. No dual boot either. If you get Win10, it sounds like you are stuck with it. If, and that's a very BIG if, I install Win10, it will be on a dedicated W10 system and not anywhere near either of my daily use 'puters. Agzin, I have no idea if this is true, but I for one am not going to chance it until the general public starts reporting on it "in service".

Steve

I have Windows 10 technical preview installed as dual boot with Windows 8.1.
There is always the option to either update the existing OS, in which case,
with the preview, the process is not reversible, or perform a clean install, in
which case dual boot is perfectly possible.

The offer is Windows 10 for current owners of Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8.
It is not obligatory and is free for the first year after the release of Windows 10.
This does not mean the if you take advantage of the free offer, you will have to
pay after a year, it does mean that if you acquire Windows 10 within a year of its
release, you will not have to pay for it.

This appears to be an extension of the offer of Windows 8 for £24.99 for a limited
period after its release.

I hope this dispels some of the nonsense being posted in various places.

[dhazelgrove]

The issues are going to be within the registry.

It's not just the import of FSX itself, but also the myriad of FSX add-ons that also cram the registry with all sorts of things.

I suppose we won't know about such things until someone actually installs the new OS over their old one and reports here on the outcome.

We're not cynical in any way, are we?

Dave

[ncooper]

No need to be, I have FSX Steam running quite happily under Windows 10,
even though it's the technical preview.
No controller dropouts as there are under Windows 8.1.

Nick

[dhazelgrove]

No need to be, I have FSX Steam running quite happily under Windows 10,
even though it's the technical preview.
No controller dropouts as there are under Windows 8.1.

Nick

Good to hear, but did you install the OS over your previous one after FSX was installed or before?

We need to know what happens to the FSX install if the OS changes.

Dave

[ncooper]

As I said above, a clean install dual booted with Windows 8.1.
I would never upgrade in any case, a clean install gives a clean
start and also as said above, you can't revert from the present
technical preview.

[Paul Domingue]

OK, I've done my homework and I have a laptop that's dedicated to my astrophotography that meets the system requirements so I'm going to try windows 10 preview. If all goes well then I'll wait until the full release, install it and then install FSX and P3D then see how they function. My only other concern would be how it works with my Autodesk software.

[Dumonceau]

OK, I've done my homework and I have a laptop that's dedicated to my astrophotography that meets the system requirements so I'm going to try windows 10 preview. If all goes well then I'll wait until the full release, install it and then install FSX and P3D then see how they function. My only other concern would be how it works with my Autodesk software.

One of my developers at work uses autodesk for his home work (hobby 3D modelling) and is testing Windows 10 with it. I haven't heard a negative complaint yet.

Of course, It all boils down to what version of Autodesk you have. I imagine that if that version works with Windows 7 and 8, it should work with 10.

BTW, forget about the system requirements. I have Windows 10 running happily on a 6 year old Dell Laptop with 6 Gb's of ram. Old thing never ran this good!

Johan

[Lewis-A2A]

Some of our customers and people I've spoken too also have good reports so far from the win10 tech demo. I think personally I'll be moving my laptop across first to 'test the water' and then if all's good move the desktop across. Ive already started double checking the backups etc for the desktop move. All rather exciting, and utterly terrifying at the same time haha :encouragement:

[dharris]

Roy Chaffin has this up on his website........http://www.roychaffin.com/rcs-panels.html I am still using the beta and like it much better than 8.1, but still have 7 64 bit as my main system
" Windows 10 - FREE "
The latest version of 'Windows 10' (Build 9926) has been released for testing, and the good work continues :) So far it is a massive improvement on anything that has gone before, on any version of Windows.
The development team, are certainly listening to the feedback that the testers are giving, which is something of a first :)
The surprising news is, that all proper registered users of Windows 7, Windows 8 or 8,1, will be entitled to a FREE upgrade to Windows 10, for 1 year after the official release date. So you will have time to make up your minds. Furthermore, I understand that all updates from then on, will be automatic and FREE. Which means that everyone on the planet will be using the same version at the same time. As a developer, and user, this will massively simplify things.
The official release of Windows 10 is expected to be Autumn 2015.
There is a raft of new features, never seen in Windows before, and over the next 6 months, we are promised much more.
So the future is bright, if things keep going in the right direction.
" Extra "
Oh, 'FSX' and 'X-Plane 10' run well on Windows 10.
I am yet to test MS Flight.

[Paul Domingue]

One of my developers at work uses autodesk for his home work (hobby 3D modelling) and is testing Windows 10 with it. I haven't heard a negative complaint yet.

Of course, It all boils down to what version of Autodesk you have. I imagine that if that version works with Windows 7 and 8, it should work with 10.

BTW, forget about the system requirements. I have Windows 10 running happily on a 6 year old Dell Laptop with 6 Gb's of ram. Old thing never ran this good!

Johan

While I use my desktop (actually a huge tower that I built and constantly upgrade) for more then Autodesk, 3ds Max Design 2015 is the primary use of the desktop. I would not want anything to cause problems for my modeling projects.
I'm currently in the process of setting up my laptop to receive Windows 10 and will know more in a few hours.

[StormILM]

If Roy Chaffin feels this is a good move, I am very inclined to believe it will be as well. Of course over the coming months we will have a good bit of time to see how well all goes with migration and how well all the addons interface with the new OS. Will be keeping a close eye on these discussions for information and advice.

[Paul Domingue]

I've been running 10 on my laptop all day and can report that I have not run across any problems. All the software that was installed prior to installation works properly and a copy of Autodesk 3ds Max 9 on the laptop is functioning correctly. From what I see so far I do believe I will install 10 on my desktop as soon as the official release is out. The free thing still has me a little spooked though. :a1310:

[dharris]

The only program that does not work with the Win 10 beta is Norton a/v. They do not support beta programs, but their website said as soon as win 10 is released their support will start for the full program. All other programs I had installed, including fsx work fine. Will be upgrading wife's win 8.1 as soon as it is available.

[Jafo]

The only program that does not work with the Win 10 beta is Norton a/v. They do not support beta programs, but their website said as soon as win 10 is released their support will start for the full program. All other programs I had installed, including fsx work fine. Will be upgrading wife's win 8.1 as soon as it is available.

Norton AV is famous for not working even when it's claimed to.
I dumped all things Norton a decade ago [at the beginning of a subscription] when it successfully shut down the BITS service and prevented it from restarting.
If you don't know what that is it's 'slightly' important - ie. without it you're mostly screwed.
The 'cure' was quite a bit more complicated than just thumbing one's nose at NAV.....

[Paul Domingue]

Norton AV is famous for not working even when it's claimed to.
I dumped all things Norton a decade ago [at the beginning of a subscription] when it successfully shut down the BITS service and prevented it from restarting.
If you don't know what that is it's 'slightly' important - ie. without it you're mostly screwed.
The 'cure' was quite a bit more complicated than just thumbing one's nose at NAV.....

I stopped using Norton a long time ago because it was a big system hog. I started using AVG when it first came out and have stuck with it ever since. It has never failed me. It is working fine with Windows 10.

Was there ever a Windows 9? Hey should we start calling it Windows X? :encouragement:

[dharris]

In all the years I have used Norton, never had a problem. I have had problems with other a/v. Each to his own. I worked in the IT dept with a software developer of Credit Union database systems, we used and tested many a/v programs, some better than others, Norton support was always on the ball, did we have problems, sure did, but over the years, Norton was always a good stable system. You had a problem and I understand your feelings, but market share speaks volumns . Tried Vipre systems, Microsoft likes them, screwed my system bad, they felt bad, offered no help. Stories, everyone has them

[Jafo]

I stopped using Norton a long time ago because it was a big system hog. I started using AVG when it first came out and have stuck with it ever since. It has never failed me. It is working fine with Windows 10.

Was there ever a Windows 9? Hey should we start calling it Windows X? :encouragement:

Win 8 was such a dog GUI-wise that no amount of cheap offers or even a little back-pedalling with 8.1 was enough to see an acceptable take-up market share they [MS] needed to distance themselves from it and skipped '9' in favour of something that looked distantly remote '10'.
Stardock made quite a 'handy profit' marketing Start8 and ModernMix - 2 proggies that restored NORMAL win 7 functionality to the OS...and will see more of the same with 10.
8 was a camel of an interface [ a horse designed by a committee]. Heads rolled over it.

Norton has improved its performance [it couldn't get worse] since the days of 2003 but I'll still avoid it like the plague. Still on XP then...I moved on to Bitdefender...which was significantly superior to the current [then] NAV but they were a bit too slow to make it compatible with 7 so at that point I moved to Kaspersky and have stayed there since.
I'd always been an early adopter [via TechNet] using pre RTM vers though neither 8, 8.1 or 10 as a prime machine...relying instead on VM use.
Back in 95/98 days I also was a beta tester for an AV proggy which isn't around anymore [InDefense]...so Kaspersky is it, with free vers of Comodo IS on several others.

The ONLY benefits with 8, 8.1 and 10 are 'under the hood' [the kernel]... the GUIs [shells] are still dogs.

They are capable of running on lesser spec'd machines than 7 [and definitely better than Vista- the Win ME of the modern era].

I'd expect FSX to be quite happy on 10 though am yet to fiddle - I usually chuck on the FSX demo to see how things behave....as if that's OK the full ver typically is too....;)

[JimmyRFR]

provided I can make BBLean run to avoid any kind of unnecessary UI mumbo jumbo.

Wow.... Blackbox for windows... now that is a blast from the past. I used the Blackbox window manager, and then later Fluxbox, extensively on my linux machines... had them tricked out pretty with transparent bash shells and such... back when I had dedicated linux machines.. which was easily ten years ago. Oh my, I feel old, all of a sudden. :)

[Jafo]

Wow.... Blackbox for windows... now that is a blast from the past. I used the Blackbox window manager, and then later Fluxbox, extensively on my linux machines... had them tricked out pretty with transparent bash shells and such... back when I had dedicated linux machines.. which was easily ten years ago. Oh my, I feel old, all of a sudden. :)
I still have that on a VM somewhere....though at the time my main weapon of choice was Litestep...avoiding explorer.exe entirely...;)

[JimmyRFR]

I still have that on a VM somewhere....though at the time my main weapon of choice was Litestep...avoiding explorer.exe entirely...;)

mmmm.. yep, I recall playing with litestep as well, but I do recall I used darkstep more often on my win boxes. Back in those days, I used to be very, very involved in a 'modding' community that tore down and modded as much of the core windows UI as possible, replacing resources, using hex editors to modify strings, etc. The central idea was to make windows as light weight as possible, while making it have absolutely no resemblance to windows. Nowadays I find great enjoyment in modding FSX, but now it's through development tools and coding, without the need to reinstall an operating system every time you push things too far. :)

[hairyspin]

Thanks for that Paul, if Max 9 runs then 2008 should too so I'm looking forward to trying 10 on the old XP drive. Love the gripes about Norton y'all: In 1997 Norton slowed my compost-powered abacus down so there's no way it's going near my hyperclocked quantum rig, moan drone chiz.

[Bjoern]

Wow.... Blackbox for windows... now that is a blast from the past. I used the Blackbox window manager, and then later Fluxbox, extensively on my linux machines... had them tricked out pretty with transparent bash shells and such... back when I had dedicated linux machines.. which was easily ten years ago. Oh my, I feel old, all of a sudden. :)

I've tried the regular Blackbox release a few times. Never got close to BBLean.

And embarassingly enough, I use XFace on Arch Linux. Configured like the classic Windows desktop.




I still have that on a VM somewhere....though at the time my main weapon of choice was Litestep...avoiding explorer.exe entirely...;)

750KB of BBLean are just so much better than 20MB of Explorer.exe.




mmmm.. yep, I recall playing with litestep as well, but I do recall I used darkstep more often on my win boxes. Back in those days, I used to be very, very involved in a 'modding' community that tore down and modded as much of the core windows UI as possible, replacing resources, using hex editors to modify strings, etc. The central idea was to make windows as light weight as possible, while making it have absolutely no resemblance to windows. Nowadays I find great enjoyment in modding FSX, but now it's through development tools and coding, without the need to reinstall an operating system every time you push things too far. :)

Hahahaha, good and bad memories alike! The first step was a Windows XP CD made with nLite, the second was to shut down all services that were deemed not necessary and generally tweak the system to death and the third was wondering why you just can't share stuff when attending any LAN parties.

I love how simple everything got with 7. Up, running and tweaked in three to four hours instead of three days. And a reainstall every 200 years instead of every six months.
Also, thanks to excessive amounts of RAM nowadays, you don't have to kill any services just because they take up 1.5MB of mmemory.

[Jafo]

I've tried the regular Blackbox release a few times. Never got close to BBLean.

And embarassingly enough, I use XFace on Arch Linux. Configured like the classic Windows desktop.





750KB of BBLean are just so much better than 20MB of Explorer.exe.





Hahahaha, good and bad memories alike! The first step was a Windows XP CD made with nLite, the second was to shut down all services that were deemed not necessary and generally tweak the system to death and the third was wondering why you just can't share stuff when attending any LAN parties.

I love how simple everything got with 7. Up, running and tweaked in three to four hours instead of three days. And a reainstall every 200 years instead of every six months.
Also, thanks to excessive amounts of RAM nowadays, you don't have to kill any services just because they take up 1.5MB of mmemory.

Ah....nLite ...yet another blast from the past.

My 'skinning' days started at a time when I even know who first skinned Winamp [Fli7e] ...and LS.com and LS.net were a start... #skinnerz on efnet ... LoneRunnr's Litestep that [still] never got out of a 'beta'....then Customize.org....skinz.org [even Deviantart.com started as a skinning site...but Jark had bigger plans]....then ultimately Wincustomize.com - where I Admin 15 years later.
Messing with shells...designing GUIs....all fun until someone gets hurt. Litestep used to lose track of a dll and cause windows to pop up the error 'You must reinstall Windows' that scared the pants off many.... it was fun times...;)

[Paul Domingue]

Thanks for that Paul, if Max 9 runs then 2008 should too so I'm looking forward to trying 10 on the old XP drive. Love the gripes about Norton y'all: In 1997 Norton slowed my compost-powered abacus down so there's no way it's going near my hyperclocked quantum rig, moan drone chiz.

Yep, 1997 was around the same time I came to the same conclusion about Norton. While they may have improved on the memory hoggishness I'm still very contented with AVG.
Since there were no problems with Max 9 on my laptop with Win X (yes that's what I'm going to call it) I am not to concerned about it working with Max 2015 but that remains to be seen.

[heywooood]

Win X..that's what it is called here too

just upgraded my lappie - took to it without a hitch...so far

[gradyhappyg]

From what I understand the free X upgrade is for only Win7 and up systems. Those with XP and Vista are not included. Is this correct?

[heywooood]

From what I understand the free X upgrade is for only Win7 and up systems. Those with XP and Vista are not included. Is this correct?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about

(http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about)


and from the email they sent me with the Win X link:
What you keep when you upgrade This table shows what you can keep when you upgrade from your current version of Windows. Keep in mind that no matter which operating system you’re upgrading from, you should play it safe and back up everything.
To check your version, see Which Windows operating system am I running? (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/which-operating-system)

<thead>
If you're upgrading from
You can keep

</thead><tbody>
Windows 8.1 or Windows 8


Windows settings, personal files, and most apps




Windows RT 8.1 or Windows RT


Insider Preview doesn’t run on Windows RT systems




Windows 7


Windows settings, personal files, and most apps




Windows Vista


Nothing—you must boot from media and perform a clean install



</tbody>

Important

If you're running Windows 8.1, Windows 8, or Windows 7 and your system language isn't one of the available languages listed on the System requirements (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-faq-system-requirements-pc#wtp-pre-install-languages) tab, you can only keep your personal files when you upgrade. You won't be able to keep your apps or Windows settings.

[Paul Domingue]

The lack of some languages is only with the beta version of Win X. The official release will have that corrected.

[Bjoern]

Ah....nLite ...yet another blast from the past.

My 'skinning' days started at a time when I even know who first skinned Winamp [Fli7e] ...and LS.com and LS.net were a start... #skinnerz on efnet ... LoneRunnr's Litestep that [still] never got out of a 'beta'....then Customize.org....skinz.org [even Deviantart.com started as a skinning site...but Jark had bigger plans]....then ultimately Wincustomize.com - where I Admin 15 years later.
Messing with shells...designing GUIs....all fun until someone gets hurt. Litestep used to lose track of a dll and cause windows to pop up the error 'You must reinstall Windows' that scared the pants off many.... it was fun times...;)

Oh dear, I nostalgia'd hard. Especially at the mention of EFnet. IRC...good days!

[Paul Domingue]

After some new updates in Win X I installed FSXA with the DX10 preview turned on and went for a flight. Everything is still working well.

[dhazelgrove]

Has anyone actually updated to WinX on a system that already has FSXA on it? Does FSXA still work?

These are the $64k questions.

Dave

[Jafo]

Has anyone actually updated to WinX on a system that already has FSXA on it? Does FSXA still work?

These are the $64k questions.

Dave

Not really worth it...as any outcome is meaningless....the OS is definitely not 'RTM' yet...;)

Things WILL change...;)

[res non verba]

Windows 10 is here for install

anyone installed it over W7 with fsx?

:ernaehrung004:

[Dumonceau]

Not yet, But I definitely will!!! And I will report back. It will of course be on the modern sim which is Prepar3D v2.5.

I don't do FSX anymore.

Johan

[res non verba]

I got an icon on taskbar but it seems its only a reserve... I see that only on july 29 it will be available!

:ernaehrung004:

[falcon409]

I got an icon on taskbar but it seems its only a reserve... I see that only on july 29 it will be available!

Yep, same here. I did the "Reserve" thing, but it's not available for download yet.

[Ian Warren]

Just to choke and neck wring an OS .. this PC is still XP , back in its day cost me $600NZ , reason its still here is the hardware did not have updates nor was there software that would work ... all the hardware works fine till it dies I'll stick with it "If it ain't broke don't fix .... or replace it" .

[manfredc3]

What I am wondering is, will hardware drivers be compatible with WIN 10/X?

I have the "reserve" on the toolbar of my laptop, but am having second thoughts about upgrading me FSX rig. Don't want to mess up a fine running sim, specially as I run software in networked setup, which probably will be a p... in the a... to re-create with a new OS.

Will probably use the laptop to get to know WIN X, before even thinking of upgrading me FSX rig,

[heywooood]

What I am wondering is, will hardware drivers be compatible with WIN 10/X?

I have the "reserve" on the toolbar of my laptop, but am having second thoughts about upgrading me FSX rig. Don't want to mess up a fine running sim, specially as I run software in networked setup, which probably will be a p... in the a... to re-create with a new OS.

Will probably use the laptop to get to know WIN X, before even thinking of upgrading me FSX rig,

that's what I did with the WinX beta...because WinX is still being tweaked and updated frequently - I have enough trouble keeping FSX happy

[Hdguy]

Personally to me it looks like just an upgrade..

Think I'll pass on it and purchase a full copy one day...

I do have it set to download when the time comes, just to have it for another machine to see how it goes. BUT not on my FSX rig that's for sure.. It just runs to good to chance borking it now.

[gray eagle]

I wonder if this thing will auto update over the internet or will they provide ISO downloads. If it auto updates, what happens if the hard drive tanks. Do you loose access to reinstall it?
There are some unknowns here that give me pause till its actual release then look at what this is all about.

[zswobbie1]

Personally to me it looks like just an upgrade..

Think I'll pass on it and purchase a full copy one day...

I do have it set to download when the time comes, just to have it for another machine to see how it goes. BUT not on my FSX rig that's for sure.. It just runs to good to chance borking it now.

It's an Update, not an Upgrade. Free to all with legal versions of W7-W8.1
In future, all future OS's will be updates of W10, that will be updated by the PC's operating system's update app.

[falcon409]

I wonder if this thing will auto update over the internet or will they provide ISO downloads. If it auto updates, what happens if the hard drive tanks. Do you loose access to reinstall it?
There are some unknowns here that give me pause till its actual release then look at what this is all about.
Not an "auto-update". You do the installation once it's available (July 29th).

[gray eagle]

Not an "auto-update". You do the installation once it's available (July 29th).

So it is an upgrade? If so, then I could reinstall it in case something happened to my HD...

I was looking for upgrade vs update and this is what I found...


http://www.enfocus.com/en/support/knowledge-base/what-is-the-difference-between-an-upgrade-and-an-update/


If I do the installation then it sounds like maybe this would be done with iso files. Perhaps they would have to be burned and installed from a DVD.
Just my guess.

[ViperPilot2]

I Uninstalled the KB Update yesterday (KB3035533 - GWX), and alas, it re-installed the Update again when I booted up this AM!

I'll have to watch and see if there's a performance hit with this Update, as some have commented on in other FS Forums...

:dizzy:

[Jafo]

I Uninstalled the KB Update yesterday (KB3035533 - GWX), and alas, it re-installed the Update again when I booted up this AM!

I'll have to watch and see if there's a performance hit with this Update, as some have commented on in other FS Forums...

:dizzy:
Change your win update settings to 'ask first' not 'automatic'....
uninstall the problem KBs ....reboot....go to win update and check for new updates. They will be relisted....right click on them and 'hide'.
They will not come back...;)

I know this system well....just done it on 6 machines [so far]....;)

[falcon409]

So it is an upgrade? If so, then I could reinstall it in case something happened to my HD...

I was looking for upgrade vs update and this is what I found...


http://www.enfocus.com/en/support/knowledge-base/what-is-the-difference-between-an-upgrade-and-an-update/


If I do the installation then it sounds like maybe this would be done with iso files. Perhaps they would have to be burned and installed from a DVD.
Just my guess.
No idea, all I know is what I've read on the information pop-ups for win10. I reserved a copy, when it's available it will be downloaded for me, I'll get a notice on my PC that it's ready to install and then I'll follow the instructions from there.

[ViperPilot2]

Thanks for that Tip, falcon! I will give it a try this evening!

Alan :wavey:


Change your win update settings to 'ask first' not 'automatic'....
uninstall the problem KBs ....reboot....go to win update and check for new updates. They will be relisted....right click on them and 'hide'.
They will not come back...;)

I know this system well....just done it on 6 machines [so far]....;)

[Paul Domingue]

I have encountered the first negative aspect of Win X. I have two logons that were setup prior to installing the Win X beta over Win 7, a passworded administrator (backup logon) and my standard logon without a password but full administrative privileges. The system always started on the unpassworded logon and went directly to the desk top. Today I was installing some software which required a restart. After restart it went to the user logon selection screen (this has not happened until today) and requested I enter a password for my unpassworded logon. I found that I had to enter my Windows Live Account password to logon. I tried the backup logon that required a password and it told me it was incorrect but gave the hint that I had set. There was no mistake on my password entry but it was rejected. The software I installed should not have had any affect on my logons so I'm completely discarding that idea. I'm going to post this problem on the Microsoft beta testing site and see what response I get. This is a big concern for me and could be the clincher prohibiting any Win X install on my main system.

[Jafo]

I have encountered the first negative aspect of Win X. I have two logons that were setup prior to installing the Win X beta over Win 7, a passworded administrator (backup logon) and my standard logon without a password but full administrative privileges. The system always started on the unpassworded logon and went directly to the desk top. Today I was installing some software which required a restart. After restart it went to the user logon selection screen (this has not happened until today) and requested I enter a password for my unpassworded logon. I found that I had to enter my Windows Live Account password to logon. I tried the backup logon that required a password and it told me it was incorrect but gave the hint that I had set. There was no mistake on my password entry but it was rejected. The software I installed should not have had any affect on my logons so I'm completely discarding that idea. I'm going to post this problem on the Microsoft beta testing site and see what response I get. This is a big concern for me and could be the clincher prohibiting any Win X install on my main system.

Paul...what you probably also got [without noticing] was a Win update that needed the live login to be used again. It was just 'coincidental' to your other software install and reboot...;)