HW Question - Do I need a new power supply

[gavinc]

Hi,
Following on from my previous questions about upgrading my system.

I am now wondering if I have a power supply issue or just need a bigger one.

My current system is now
Gigabyte GA-P55-UD3 motherboard
Intel I5-750 processor 2.88 GHz native overclocked to 3.2 Ghz
8 GB RAM overclocked to 160 MHz
NVidia GTX 970
Seagate Barracude 1 TB System drive
Seagate Barracuda 500 GB Flightsim drive
Corsair 750W power supply

Very occasionally my system will just power down for no apparent reason (usually when I am running FSX but that is what the box does most of the time).

I used the Gigabyte Smart6 tool to overclock
I recently downloaded a new version of the motherboard bios. With the older version the tool would only overclock the CPU to 3.2 GHz and the ram to 160 MHz. The new bios allows overclocking the CPU to 3.8 GHz and the RAM to 200 MHz.

I reset the speeds to default and installed the new bios. The system booted fine and Windows ran ok. I then overclocked to 3.8 GHz and rebooted. The system starts to come up and then will lose power (as if the power supply has tripped). If I wait a few minutes and reboot then the system will come back up but the bios will be back to default.

Is my power supply faulty or do I need more than 750W to drive the CPU that hard?

thanks
Gavin

[jetstreamsky]

I had a similar situation where trying to run anything more than word or a browser would cause my machine to give up, the draw from the video system couldn't be supported. After changing many other components, replacing the power supply with a Corsair 950W solved all my issues.

[stansdds]

To me it sounds more like an unstable overclock.

[Butcherbird17]

To me it sounds more like an unstable overclock.

+1 on the overclock. To me it sounds like you need to up the voltage on the cpu. I don't remember if the smart utility allows for that are not. It might be better to OC thru BIOS, and then stress test the overclock to make sure its stable.

Joe

[stansdds]

+1 on the overclock. To me it sounds like you need to up the voltage on the cpu. I don't remember if the smart utility allows for that are not. It might be better to OC thru BIOS, and then stress test the overclock to make sure its stable.

Joe

That is what I found to be the best way to overclock.

[gavinc]

Thanks for the insights,

I am pretty sure that the CPU is over heating, I got it up and stable long enough to get a CPU monitor running and even sitting idle the CPU temp gradually climbed up and up and up. Then the system shut down.

I guess that 3.8 is too aggressive for my rig.

Gavin

[Browncoat]

+2 to the overclock. +1 to increasing your voltages. When I upgraded from 6gb to 12gb of RAM, the new modules failed to boot because I had kept the voltage at stock. That worked fine for my 6gb modules, but for my 12gb modules a slight increase is all I needed to do to get my system back to stable. Your current PSU should be more that enough for your system.

Gavnic, what cooler are you using for your CPU?


+1 on the overclock. To me it sounds like you need to up the voltage on the cpu. I don't remember if the smart utility allows for that are not. It might be better to OC thru BIOS, and then stress test the overclock to make sure its stable.

Joe

[txnetcop]

best way to determine your power supply needs: http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
Watch this OC of your board: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iYAmHliwqc Make sure you have adequate cooling. I have easily run your processor and board at 4.2 GHz but voltage regulation on those cheaper boards is tough. It really is wiser to step up to a better board sometime in the future. Your problem does sound like overheating and a bad OC.

Ted

[PHo17]

750 W power supply is more than enough for your system Gavin. I have more power consuming parts than you and 600 W power supply. Everything works fine for me.

[vortex]

What sort of CPU cooler do you have? Have you checked that the CPU cooler fan(s) are running properly? What maximum CPU temperature are you getting when overclocked? Does FSX run OK when not overclocked? I agree with txnetcop, it sounds as if the system is shutting down as a result of the CPU over-temping. However, increasing the CPU voltage will only make it run hotter. As PHo17 said, 750W should be more than enough for you system (unless the power supply is faulty). My money is on the CPU temperature. If the CPU cooler is running OK, try re-seating it and use a decent thermal paste - 3.8 GHz should be achievable for your processor with decent cooling.

[gavinc]

Thanks Folks,

I have set the clock back to 3.2 GHz and it is running fine again. I will have to investigate replacing/upgrading the cooler. The cooler is whatever came standard with the system when I bought it 5 years ago and is obviously inadequate for the task I am now asking it to do.

The CPU is at 42 degrees C. sitting idle as I write this reply

thanks
Gavin

[Bjoern]

The CPU is at 42 degrees C. sitting idle as I write this reply


That's much too high.

I have a 212EVO for my i5-4670K, which is quite a bit oversized for such an efficient CPU. It can also be used for old socket 1156 CPUs, so it should be perfect for your 750. Not too expensive either.
http://eu.coolermaster.com/uk/cooling/cpu-air-cooler/hyper-212-evo/

Also make sure to order good thermal compound while you're at it. I'm not sure how good or bad the one is that comes with the cooler, but a good, well used compound can make quite a bit of a difference.

[Dumonceau]

That's much too high.

I have a 212EVO for my i5-4670K, which is quite a bit oversized for such an efficient CPU. It can also be used for old socket 1156 CPUs, so it should be perfect for your 750. Not too expensive either.
http://eu.coolermaster.com/uk/cooling/cpu-air-cooler/hyper-212-evo/

Also make sure to order good thermal compound while you're at it. I'm not sure how good or bad the one is that comes with the cooler, but a good, well used compound can make quite a bit of a difference.

It could be worse, just read this at Tom's Hardware.

My core i 7 CPU with stock heat sink and AZZA Solano 1000 Black case runs idle at 64 C and hits 84 C when Im gaming any ideas if that is ok? :biggrin-new:

Bjoern is right though. Overclocking needs more than a stock cooler, a good thermal compound and judicious settings of the voltage and so forth.

Cheers,

Johan

[gavinc]

Thanks folks,

I hadn't really planned on over-clocking the system when I bought it 5 years ago :-)

The next question is of course how to know what cooler to buy.

thanks for the recommendation Bjoern, I was also looking at this ARCTI Freezer 7 Pro (http://www.amazon.co.uk/ARCTIC-Freezer-Pro-Rev-Multicompatible/dp/B002G392ZI/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1426425881&sr=1-1&keywords=i5+cpu+cooler)

Plus I guess I need a good quality Thermal paste. Guess I get to explain to the financial controller that I need another 40 odd Pounds for my flight sim addiction.

Gavin

[gavinc]

Should also note that I moved my PC out from the wall a bit so there is better airflow.
Now it is running at about 65 C when I am in FSX

Gavin

[Dumonceau]

Should also note that I moved my PC out from the wall a bit so there is better airflow.
Now it is running at about 65 C when I am in FSX

Gavin

That is still hot, but not really critical. That cooler looks really nice. I have the Scythen Mugen 4, which does about the same job as your future one.

When mounting it, make sure you have someone to help you. That extra pair of hands is no luxury!!

Oh, and the first 2-3 days you have the new cooler installed, clock the CPU down again to stock speed so the paste can settle, after that, you can overclock again, but monitor those voltages and temps!

Keep us posted if you will!!

Johan

[Bjoern]

My core i 7 CPU with stock heat sink and AZZA Solano 1000 Black case runs idle at 64 C and hits 84 C when Im gaming any ideas if that is ok? :biggrin-new:


Some people...

But then again, I ran my previous RAM at ludicrous settings (better timings at a much higher frequency and higher voltage than stock) and the manufacturer was entirely cool with it.
("Yeah, sure, our guarantee still covers that!")





thanks for the recommendation Bjoern, I was also looking at this ARCTI Freezer 7 Pro (http://www.amazon.co.uk/ARCTIC-Freezer-Pro-Rev-Multicompatible/dp/B002G392ZI/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1426425881&sr=1-1&keywords=i5+cpu+cooler)


Used to have that one for my old E6600. It was okay, but if you can, go for a cooler with a 120 mm fan. They move more air and tend to run quieter.

What's your budget for a cooler?

[vortex]

It could be worse, just read this at Tom's Hardware.

My core i 7 CPU with stock heat sink and AZZA Solano 1000 Black case runs idle at 64 C and hits 84 C when Im gaming any ideas if that is ok? :biggrin-new:


The example you quoted is very warm for idle and load but not dangerously so. To quote directly from Intel themselves, using the i7-975 as an example:


"The thermal specification (also known as TCase) for the Intel® Core™ i7 processor i7-975 is 67.9°C. The TCase is a number established by Intel® as a point of reference in order to understand what could be expected as per normal processor temperature.

Anything from the Tcase and below will be the expected temperature of the processor in normal use, anything that doesn't stress out the processor (watching movies, burning CDs, browsing the internet, creating documents, etc.) When the processor is stressed out meaning that you are running heavy processor applications that take control of the CPU or use it at 100% the temperature will go beyond the Tcase. It can perfectly reach 90 to 95 degrees and the processor will still be OK. The cooling fan is in charge to keep that temperature there.

If the processor temperature reaches 100°C or more it will send a signal to the motherboard to shut down to prevent major damage and most likely it won't be possible to turn the computer back on until it cools down".


gavinc, the Tcase for your processor (i5-750) is even higher at 72.7°C - see http://ark.intel.com/products/42915/Intel-Core-i5-750-Processor-8M-Cache-2_66-GHz. The Tcase for the newer i7-4790 is higher still at 74.04°C. Whilst it's always best to get the CPU temperature as low as possible, particularly if you're overclocking, it's worth remembering that there's plenty of flexibility built into the CPU as far as temperaures go.

[gavinc]

What's your budget for a cooler?

What ever I can get away with, just because I make the money in this house that doesn't mean I get to spend it.

[Bjoern]

What ever I can get away with, just because I make the money in this house that doesn't mean I get to spend it.

Go for the 212EVO then. Not much point in spending more on a mere CPU cooler if you consequently end up on the living room sofa for a week.

[Hdguy]

Agree. The 750 watt should be fine. Is it a 12V single rail ? How many amps to the rail?

That Freezer Pro cooler is a good one btw.

Agreed, to get an OC that high thru software is not going to do it.. You do need to boost the voltages on the cpu.. Just one notch at a time.. A chip that old needs to be taken up slowly and tested.

Maybe upgrade your front and rear fans when you add your new cooler. get some that are 3-4 pin and run them off the motherboard. Most case fans only run 1,200 or so RPM,s... Buy replacements that will run to , say 2.500 and control them in the BIOS.. maybe you also have an ambient temperature case issue too going on... best to check the little things out too.

[gavinc]

Hi,
Just an FYI (if anyone is interested )

Finally got around to purchasing an Arctic Freezer 13 (I had to cancel one order as they seemed unable to deliver) and installed it this afternoon. Not as harrowing as I thought it would be. I powered up the PC after the upgrade and it didn't go bang (which is a good thing).

Reset the CPU to it's default clock speed of 2.66 GHz and will leave it like that for a week to allow the thermal paste to cure.
Just fired up FSX and the CPU is ticking along at 24- 28 C. Of course frame rates aren't super but flying in FSX.SE I am still managing mid 20s.

Gavin

[Hdguy]

Good to know... Me thinks you were HOT and unstable...

[Bjoern]

Good quality thermal paste will not really need time to cure. So crank 'er up (slowly) and see how cool overclocking can be.