Corsair Tailhook

[gray eagle]

Is there anyone else that can not fully deploy the tail hook? What you see is fully extended.


http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17673&stc=1


I have the latest FDE replacements installed fliger747_edited_corsair_fde_12_31_14.zip



Edit: It comes down fully when airborne and wheels are down.

Couldn't delete this so I posted this edit

[ejoiner]

Is there anyone else that can not fully deploy the tail hook? What you see is fully extended.


http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17673&stc=1


I have the latest FDE replacements installed fliger747_edited_corsair_fde_12_31_14.zip



Edit: It comes down fully when airborne and wheels are down.

Couldn't delete this so I posted this edit

I dont have a problem with the tail hook that I know of, other than I cant extend it unless the gear is down. I have noted that when on the carrier deck, the tail wheel does not touch the ground. main gear are ok, tail wheel no.

[Dumonceau]

This thread guys, post #34 by Bomber_12th

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?91713-Aircraft-Factory-Corsairs/page2

[gray eagle]

This thread guys, post #34 by Bomber_12th

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?91713-Aircraft-Factory-Corsairs/page2



My issue is as stated http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?91713-Aircraft-Factory-Corsairs/page2, #42 namely, upon landing, with the tail hook extended (that means full out), it will retract fully (that means raise).
I HAVE made the tail hook entries and I have previously. Don't know why I was referred to another thread as I made the changes to the tail hook.

Normally, when you extend the tail hook and land, the tail hook remains out until you manually raise it. It is not supposed to raise automatically. That is the whole point
of this in case you missed what I was trying to convey.



Using any Razbam aircraft, and on the ground, I can raise and lower the tail hook on any of their products that come with a tail hook.
This one from A2A, the hook will not extend while on the ground; it will extend when airborne (At least this is what I am experiencing).
Then after a landing whether it's on a carrier or shore base runway, the hook will pop in like a turtle's head. While on the ground, the hook will only
partially move out and not come it contact with the ground. That's about as lucid as I can be.

[Bomber_12th]

It's not a problem with the model, Gray Eagle, it is the way the tailhook entry in the Aircraft.cfg file is setup - by default with the original Aircraft Factory product files, the tailhook will extend all the way to the ground (but then again, as it comes, it doesn't have a tailhook entry in it). So no blame is to be made on A2A/Aircraft Factory. The tailhook entry written in the original Tom Falley (Fliger747) FDE was for the original MV model, and thus wasn't properly setup for the Aircraft Factory model, and will cause the nose-overs every time when catching a wire.

On most any taildragger aircraft in FSX, even if the tailhook information is entered accurately to actually match the model correctly, it will almost always still cause the aircraft to flip onto its nose when landing, or very near to it. The tailhook system in FSX was never designed with taildraggers in-mind. As a result, you usually always have to play with the position and length of the tailhook in the Aircraft.cfg file, to a location that is farther back, and usually also with a shorter tailhook arm length, to decrease the nose-over effects. With the tailhook entry I provided for the Aircraft.cfg file, it was simply a quick modification (probably much too far exaggerated) that will allow you to land the aircraft and catch a wire without nosing over, but the side-effect is that the tailhook won't extend all the way down when on the ground.

To accurately match the Aircraft Factory model, allowing the tailhook to drop all the way to the ground when on the ground/carrier, the tailhook entry should look fairly much like this instead:

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 4
tailhook_position = -17.2, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

With that entry, however, expect the nose to dip down more than in my previous tailhook mod, but it shouldn't cause any damage to the aircraft. A way to ensure the littlest-amount of nose over is to make sure you are landing slow enough, with a near-to-full stall landing.

Furthermore, you can experiment with something more like this, which will still allow the tailhook to extend all the way to the ground, and will do a little bit more to dampen the tail from rising as high when catching a wire.

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.52
tailhook_position = -22.5, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

[DaveB]

Thanks for the time and effort you're putting into this John.. it's much appreciated:encouragement: The tail hook (and/or it's setup) is often overlooked on what are to all intents, carrier models.. I've a few I don't use for carrier ops because of this darned nose-over as the wire gets taught which is not only a shame but a waste of money in my opinion.

Tks again:very_drunk:
ATB
DaveB:)

[Bomber_12th]

Not a problem, Dave. I went through all of this trouble when tuning-in the carrier habits of the Navy-modified P-51D "Seahorse" that we did through Warbirdsim, matching the original aircraft. A whole other problem arises when you want to setup these aircraft for catapault launches, as they were also originally configured for and used with during WWII and after. For that, there is a quick FSX.cfg file modification that improves things considerably (together with a required Aircraft.cfg file section, just for cat-launches).

(BTW, I've updated the tailhook entries in my last post, ever-so-slightly.)

[DaveB]

Cheers John:encouragement:

I'm almost embarrassed to say I bought Mustang Tales in the pre-Christmas sales but have yet to install it though to offset this.. I did spend some time whizzing up and around Gibraltar in 'Frankie' this afternoon:biggrin-new: Note to self.. install Mustang Tales!

I tried the first of the two entries above (pre-edit) and found the 1A was still nosing over. After 3 attempts and me thinking I'd got away with it on each occasion.. it 'just' tipped each time:banghead: I'll try the edit above and if all fails.. the second entry above.

I was light too.. sub 100gals. Perhaps I need to be yet lighter?? It wasn't possible to go slower without ditching!
ATB
DaveB:)

[Bomber_12th]

Yeah, I like the second tailhook entry in my post much more - and hopefully it makes everyone happy. ; ) The tail will still lift up, but no where near a nose-tip. I usually try to get over the threshold of the deck at about 95-100 KIAS and then chop the throttle, setting down over/onto the wires.

In order to quickly do some carrier practice, I've been loading up the carrier practice mission, with changes allowed, and switch over to the corsair.

[gray eagle]

It's not a problem with the model, Gray Eagle, it is the way the tailhook entry in the Aircraft.cfg file is setup - by default with the original Aircraft Factory product files, the tailhook will extend all the way to the ground (but then again, as it comes, it doesn't have a tailhook entry in it). So no blame is to be made on A2A/Aircraft Factory. The tailhook entry written in the original Tom Falley (Fliger747) FDE was for the original MV model, and thus wasn't properly setup for the Aircraft Factory model, and will cause the nose-overs every time when catching a wire.

On most any taildragger aircraft in FSX, even if the tailhook information is entered accurately to actually match the model correctly, it will almost always still cause the aircraft to flip onto its nose when landing, or very near to it. The tailhook system in FSX was never designed with taildraggers in-mind. As a result, you usually always have to play with the position and length of the tailhook in the Aircraft.cfg file, to a location that is farther back, and usually also with a shorter tailhook arm length, to decrease the nose-over effects. With the tailhook entry I provided for the Aircraft.cfg file, it was simply a quick modification (probably much too far exaggerated) that will allow you to land the aircraft and catch a wire without nosing over, but the side-effect is that the tailhook won't extend all the way down when on the ground.

To accurately match the Aircraft Factory model, allowing the tailhook to drop all the way to the ground when on the ground/carrier, the tailhook entry should look fairly much like this instead:

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 4
tailhook_position = -17.2, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

With that entry, however, expect the nose to dip down more than in my previous tailhook mod, but it shouldn't cause any damage to the aircraft. A way to ensure the littlest-amount of nose over is to make sure you are landing slow enough, with a near-to-full stall landing.

Furthermore, you can experiment with something more like this, which will still allow the tailhook to extend all the way to the ground, and will do a little bit more to dampen the tail from rising as high when catching a wire.

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.52
tailhook_position = -22.5, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1



John,

All the above is now in the fliger747_edited_corsair_fde_12_31_14.zip ? If so, I seem to of lost the link.

Thanks
Butch


Edit: I used the first set of figures and the hook goes all the way down to the deck. Thanks John:adoration:
Sorry to of been a pain. I had a feeling it was something in that tail hook entry but I didn't have a clue as to the line/line that needed
changing and parameters to use. :encouragement:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17729&stc=1

[DaveB]

I tried the revised first entry with around 70gals onboard and was just about to cartwheel around the front room when the b1oody thing tipped over again just as it stopped:dizzy: Tried once more and finally trapped:jump: I found that rather too close to death mind you so I'll try the second entry now. I already have it in the cfg.. just need to remove the // . Now I know it can be done.. I'm a much happier chappie;)
ATB
DaveB:)

[DaveB]

John,

All the above is now in the fliger747_edited_corsair_fde_12_31_14.zip ? If so, I seem to of lost the link.

Thanks
Butch
Butch.. it's on this link.. http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?91713-Aircraft-Factory-Corsairs

ATB
DaveB:)

[TARPSBird]

Seems like tailhooking in FSX is much more "user-friendly" for postwar tricycle-gear aircraft than the taildraggers of the 1930's and WWII. There are several tailwheel planes that I simply could not get to land without nosing over, no matter how slow I was over the ramp or how I tweaked the tailhook values. I ended up cheating a bit by moving the main gear contact points forward by about 1.0-1.5 ft. This doesn't usually change the aircraft's appearance on deck but it seems to resolve the nose-over problem for me.

[gray eagle]

Seems like tailhooking in FSX is much more "user-friendly" for postwar tricycle-gear aircraft than the taildraggers of the 1930's and WWII. There are several tailwheel planes that I simply could not get to land without nosing over, no matter how slow I was over the ramp or how I tweaked the tailhook values. I ended up cheating a bit by moving the main gear contact points forward by about 1.0-1.5 ft. This doesn't usually change the aircraft's appearance on deck but it seems to resolve the nose-over problem for me.



You got a point. I remember watching those old WW2 Victory at sea movies and those old Navy Prop jobs (Tail draggers) landing on pitching deck of carrier in rough seas, and once in awhile
a plane would nose over. Some would split in half and the cockpit would go toward the island with the pilot still in it and miraculously crawl out of the cockpit unscathed.

[TARPSBird]

I'll be the first to admit that my "getting aboard" technique is not that great and the LSO would always have some nasty comments for me down in the ready room when he made his rounds. Planes do nose over for a variety of reasons (like excessive brakes, landing gear or structural failure), but not usually on a routine trap when you simply out the wire. Kinda takes the fun out of the sim when it happens all the time.

[gray eagle]

Butch.. it's on this link.. http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?91713-Aircraft-Factory-Corsairs

ATB
DaveB:)

Thanks, Dave. :encouragement:

Think I will just add the new tail hook entries to the aircraft.cfg files of the fliger747_edited_corsair_fde_12_31_14.zip
unless John is making a revision to this.

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 4
tailhook_position = -17.2, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

[DaveB]

If you're not happy with those.. try the second entry:encouragement:

@TARPSBird..
Yeah.. and it's so annoying! Some models will catch the wire with consummate ease.. the VS_SBD and Avenger are dead certs every time. The Hellcat on the other hand is a handful and will nose-over like the 'default' cfg Corsair and the JF Martlett/Wildcat for that matter. Tricycle gear models have other problems of course but you don't have to worry about visiting sickbay just as you come to a stop:biggrin-new:

ATB
DaveB:)

[Duckie]

To accurately match the Aircraft Factory model, allowing the tailhook to drop all the way to the ground when on the ground/carrier, the tailhook entry should look fairly much like this instead:

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 4
tailhook_position = -17.2, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

With that entry, however, expect the nose to dip down more than in my previous tailhook mod, but it shouldn't cause any damage to the aircraft. A way to ensure the littlest-amount of nose over is to make sure you are landing slow enough, with a near-to-full stall landing.

Furthermore, you can experiment with something more like this, which will still allow the tailhook to extend all the way to the ground, and will do a little bit more to dampen the tail from rising as high when catching a wire.

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.52
tailhook_position = -22.5, 0, .6
cable_force_adjust = 1

Hey John, thanks for the mod work on fliger747's FDE, and for the tail hook position mods. The second mod above works great for me. Upon catching the wire the tail is snatched up to about parallel with the deck and as the bird is hauled to a stop it teeters for a split second in this attitude then the tail flops down on the deck.

Much appreciated. :encouragement:

[fliger747]

I am not sure what if any modifications A2A made to the Milviz Corsair after they purchased it. The original was tested with perhaps 300-400 arrested carrier landings and was as accurate as I could make it in this flight regime. If you are nosing up on landing you are landing with too much speed over the deck. (1) the ship should be moving 25 knots or so and it is helpful if you have some wind to head into. Ideal wind over the deck would be 35-40 knots. In landing the Corsair make sure you fuel is reduced, landing at max weight is not recommended. Make sure you approach speed is between 87-90 knots, no faster or slower. This will seem really slow, lots of torque and rudder required, at this point you will get the full Corsair experience! About 10 deg rt rudder trim and 1 deg nose up trim will be helpful. A circular approach with a VERY short final and viewpoint moved left to site down the cowl are helpful.

As noted earlier almost any FSX taildragger will nose up if landed with too much relative ground speed. FSX ships vary somewhat in their arresting properties. If you have a specific ship you use you might try adjusting the cable force scalar in the acft.cfg file.

Anyway, have fun with the hose nose-ensign eliminator.

T

[Duckie]

I am not sure what if any modifications A2A made to the Milviz Corsair after they purchased it. The original was tested with perhaps 300-400 arrested carrier landings and was as accurate as I could make it in this flight regime. If you are nosing up on landing you are landing with too much speed over the deck. (1) the ship should be moving 25 knots or so and it is helpful if you have some wind to head into. Ideal wind over the deck would be 35-40 knots. In landing the Corsair make sure you fuel is reduced, landing at max weight is not recommended. Make sure you approach speed is between 87-90 knots, no faster or slower. This will seem really slow, lots of torque and rudder required, at this point you will get the full Corsair experience! About 10 deg rt rudder trim and 1 deg nose up trim will be helpful. A circular approach with a VERY short final and viewpoint moved left to site down the cowl are helpful.

As noted earlier almost any FSX taildragger will nose up if landed with too much relative ground speed. FSX ships vary somewhat in their arresting properties. If you have a specific ship you use you might try adjusting the cable force scalar in the acft.cfg file.

Anyway, have fun with the hose nose-ensign eliminator.

T

Great tutorial Tom. Thank you. :encouragement:

[Stickshaker]

Thanks indeed, Fliger! Until now keeping the speed as steady as you suggest is too much for me, at lease in combination with chasing the moving landing spot…<o:p></o:p>

[Bomber_12th]

Tom, what happened is that after it was taken over by A2A, the model was evidently shifted within the modeling software, as all of the ordinates within your Aircraft.cfg file for the model (contact points, weight and balance/reference points, engine position, tailhook position, fuel tank positions, cockpit viewpoint, etc) were no longer the same as in the A2A/AF model. All of my modifications have been to take your flight dynamics and re-introduce the correct ordinates for the A2A/AF model, while keeping all of your other work the same. For instance, compared to the original MV model and the A2A/AF modified model, because of the model being shifted, the tailhook ordinates/location differs by more than two feet forward/aft (and that seems to be the case with the other ordinates/points as well), so with the original MV tailhook entry, it was too far forward for the modified A2A/AF version, causing a nose-over every time no matter how good your carrier landing is. Another example, because of all of this, is that when someone installs your original MV FDE into the A2A/AF model, the cockpit viewpoint is also located about two feet in front of where it should be with the A2A/AF model, and the model sits with the tires sunk into the ground.

Here is a most recent copy of your FDE, Tom, with all of the necessary modifications to match it to the A2A/AF model. Some of these are newly included:

- Weight and balance reference points to match the A2A/AF model
- Contact points to match the A2A/AF model
- Cockpit viewpoint to match the A2A/AF model
- External viewpoints to match the A2A/AF model
- Fuel tanks are positioned to match the A2A/AF model
- Engine location points to match the A2A/AF model
- Increased normalized starter torque to that of the A2A/AF model, so that when pressing the starter switch the engine will start
- Adjusted tailhook entry to match the A2A/AF model (the exaggerated one I prefer, for more realistic trap results)
- The original lights and effects entries from the original A2A/AF model
- Added a smoke system for airshow flying (the smoke generator is connected to the starboard-side exhaust).

[TARPSBird]

I've been reading the various posts here regarding the tweaks to the AF Corsair tailhook entries in the .cfg file, so I thought I'd check my F4U's out and see what I had. I looked in the .cfg file for the F4U-1D and could not find a tailhook entry. I believe I'm using the default .cfg file that came with the planes. Yet I've been successfully landing aboard the USS Leyte (CV-32) since last night. How am I doing this??? :confusion:

[Adrian Petford]

Thanks for your work John and Tom. This is why I love SOH... so many experts on hand to make great aircraft even better.

The updated FDE is fantastic, so much fun to fly!

[dhasdell]

On most any taildragger aircraft in FSX, even if the tailhook information is entered accurately to actually match the model correctly, it will almost always still cause the aircraft to flip onto its nose when landing, or very near to it.

This is true of the Just Flight Wildcat, too, and there's a similar fix for the aircraft.cfg.

[DaveB]

Indeed.. do you know where the fix is Dave?

ATB
DaveB:)

[fliger747]

There was an excellent tutorial by an online carrier group, not sure if they are still alive and well. The racetrack pattern is the key to repeatable arrested landings. Critical is the distance on downwind from the carrier which will control the turn to final. Depending on the speed of the carrier and wind the final turn, fully configured should be made somewhere abeam the bridge for a strong wind, but more likely abeam the LSO platform. Speed should be stable around 90 knots, full flaps, aircraft trimmed (especially rudder) hook and gear down. I have a second hat on my X52 which I can use to slide my viewpoint around. Having a dogs view down the side of the cowl is quite helpful. Pattern altitude no higher than 600 ft. Steady descending and curving approach important to keep power and speed stable. Having to add power getting slow or too tight a turn to the very short final (< 1 ship length) caused the demise of many inattentive naval aviators. Pay no attention to the water, just judge the relative position between you and the carrier. If everything is on speed, alignment and altitude correct, the cut should come just before the ramp. Ease the stick back to thump the plane on in the landing zone, it should want to quit flying, being behind the power curve. and hook a wire.

Michael Davies Leyte is a great ship!

Regards: Tom

[WarHorse47]

Got one small favor to ask.

I've tried both FDE's and noticed the addition of two VC Camera Definitions. Unfortunately, [CameraDefinition.3] doesn't work for me.

Is it possible to get an adjustment of [CameraDefinition.3] for the VC switches?? When I switch to that definition, it places the view on top of the panel and has a weird angle on the right hand switch panel.

Thanks.

[Bomber_12th]

Here, I thought all of those camera definitions were from the original Aircraft Factory product, but instead they are from Tom's FDE and made for the original MV model.

Try these and let me know what you think regarding the VC views (replace all of the existing definitions). I adjusted them so that you get a full view of both the right and left control consoles, and you can work all of the switches and levers.

[CameraDefinition.0]
Title=Tail
Guid = {5c1df273-034b-4e7f-953a-9d5e26f1646c}
Description = Looking forward from behind the aircraft
Origin = Center
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = FALSE
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = FALSE
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = .75
ShowWeather = Yes
InitialXyz = 0, 5.5, -20.0
InitialPbh = 10, 0, 0
XyzAdjust = TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect=TRUE
ClipMode=Minimum

[CameraDefinition.1]
Title=Right Wing
Guid = {C690EAFD-223A-42d0-99E0-681ADF93BB59}
Description = View from the right wing tip looking at the cockpit
Origin = Center
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = FALSE
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = FALSE
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.5
ShowWeather = Yes
InitialXyz = 15.8, 1.3, 0.0
InitialPbh = 8, 0, 270
XyzAdjust = TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect = FALSE
ClipMode=Minimum

[CameraDefinition.2]
Title=Left Wing
Guid = {f25dfa2e-fd2e-4b89-81e2-0575cbcb60de}
Description = View from the left wing tip looking at the cockpit
Origin = Center
SnapPbhAdjust = Swivel
SnapPbhReturn = FALSE
PanPbhAdjust = Swivel
PanPbhReturn = FALSE
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.5
ShowWeather = Yes
InitialXyz = -15.8, 1.3, 0.0
InitialPbh = 8, 0, 90
XyzAdjust = TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect = No
ClipMode=Minimum

[CameraDefinition.3]
Title=Right Console
Guid = {195EAB58-9E4A-3E2A-A34C-A8D9D948F078}
Origin = Virtual Cockpit
MomentumEffect = No
SnapPbhAdjust = None
SnapPbhReturn = False
PanPbhAdjust = None
PanPbhReturn = False
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.8
SmoothZoomTime = 2.0
ZoomPanScalar = 1.0
ShowWeather = Yes
XyzAdjust = TRUE
InitialXyz= -0.25,0,0.2
InitialPbh= 48,0,90
ShowLensFlare=FALSE
Category = Cockpit
PitchPanRate=20
HeadingPanRate=60

[CameraDefinition.4]
Title=Left Console
Guid = {777EAB58-9E4A-3E2A-A34C-A8D9D948F078}
Origin = Virtual Cockpit
MomentumEffect = No
SnapPbhAdjust = None
SnapPbhReturn = False
PanPbhAdjust = None
PanPbhReturn = False
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.8
SmoothZoomTime = 2.0
ZoomPanScalar = 1.0
ShowWeather = Yes
XyzAdjust = TRUE
InitialXyz= 0.25,0,0.2
InitialPbh= 48,0,-90
ShowLensFlare=FALSE
Category = Cockpit
PitchPanRate=20
HeadingPanRate=60

[gray eagle]

John,

The new camera views are nice but I did notice that a couple of the older views were super ceded (read eliminated) and not included with your latest and greatest.
So, I just selected some of your new views that were not previously included. Bear in mind to replace all the camera defs you would lose following camera views:

[CameraDefinition.4]
Title=Machine Guns <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I kept this one
Guid = {777EAB58-9E4A-3E2A-A34C-A8D9D948F078}
Origin = Virtual Cockpit
MomentumEffect = No
SnapPbhAdjust = None
SnapPbhReturn = False
PanPbhAdjust = None
PanPbhReturn = False
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.8
SmoothZoomTime = 2.0
ZoomPanScalar = 1.0
ShowWeather = Yes
XyzAdjust = TRUE
InitialXyz= -0.00,-0.0,-0.10
InitialPbh= 38.5,00.00,0.00
ShowLensFlare=FALSE
Category = Cockpit
PitchPanRate=20
HeadingPanRate=60

[CameraDefinition.3]
Title=Switches <<<<< Kept this one too
Guid = {195EAB58-9E4A-3E2A-A34C-A8D9D948F078}
Origin = Virtual Cockpit
MomentumEffect = No
SnapPbhAdjust = None
SnapPbhReturn = False
PanPbhAdjust = None
PanPbhReturn = False
Track = None
ShowAxis = FALSE
AllowZoom = TRUE
InitialZoom = 0.8
SmoothZoomTime = 2.0
ZoomPanScalar = 1.0
ShowWeather = Yes
XyzAdjust = TRUE
InitialXyz= -0.30,-0.20,0.50
InitialPbh= 38.5,00.00,90.00
ShowLensFlare=FALSE
Category = Cockpit
PitchPanRate=20
HeadingPanRate=60

[Bomber_12th]

The "switches" view (which was not in the original Aircraft Factory product) is the one I've corrected, and re-named "right console", so that you get the full view of all of the switches and levers on the right-side. The "machine guns" view (also not included in the original product) isn't needed as it doesn't provide anything of value. Instead, I modified that one into the "left console" view, which is just an opposite/companion to the right console view, providing a full view of all of the switches and levers on the left-side.

Here is a most recently updated version of the FDE files, incorporating the camera definition and brakes updates/corrections:

[WarHorse47]

Thanks guys. Much better and very appreciated. :encouragement:

[gray eagle]

Thanks to John for his patience with us all and his time in honing this plane into a much better performer. :encouragement:

I sure do like that 214 Marine repaint, I fly that one a lot as of late :applause:

[roger-wilco-66]

Great tutorial Tom. Thank you. :encouragement:

Ditto! Thanks, Tom!

Hey, and thanks John, for the new FDE!!



Cheers,
Mark

[Bomber_12th]

No problem, guys, and again, all of the credit for these FDE files should go to Tom (Fliger747), having provided the original work in the first place...I've just tried to provide them with the modifications that anyone else would have to do in order to get them to work with the Aircraft Factory model (if anything, I've probably ruined his work...). : )

[gray eagle]

No problem, guys, and again, all of the credit for these FDE files should go to Tom (Fliger747), having provided the original work in the first place...I've just tried to provide them with the modifications that anyone else would have to do in order to get them to work with the Aircraft Factory model (if anything, I've probably ruined his work...). : )

I managed to install the latest FDE files and everything is working very well. No complaints here. I sent Tom (Fliger747) a thank you PM as well.

:encouragement::adoration:

[fliger747]

Most happy to see the Corsair see deserved attention.

Regards: Tom

[dhasdell]

Indeed.. do you know where the fix is Dave?

Ow yiss, DaveB. Here are Rich's original instructions:

Make a copy of your aircraft.cfg as a backup.
Locate this section in the working cfg.
[TailHook]
Delete the whole section = 4 lines.
copy paste this replacement in its place,
[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.50
tailhook_position = -20.100, 0.000, -0.500
cable_force_adjust = 2.0

[DaveB]

Yowm a goodun Dave.. tar;)

ATB
DaveB:)

[expat]

I finally got around to getting the Racers Expansion Pack, which it says has a number of model and FDE improvements and realism features (engine failures?). I have added some of my favourite repaints to the racer model. Not sure the extra shine of the model made a difference and still testing flight handling.

Question: should I use the FDE in the Racers package or the most recent mod's of Tom posted above?

[expat]

. . or to put it differently, has anyone tried to splice the Racer's mods in with the warbird Corsairs? Or is Tom's FDE above superior?

Also, has anyone been able to trap the plane on an escort or light cv? I can land - crash detection on - on an Essex (eg. Michael's Yorktown or Leyte) without too much trouble, and without nosing over. However, because the Casablanca or Cabot deck is that much smaller, that big long nose of the Corsair blocks out any visual reference of the flight deck (moved the vc eye point out to the left - ie "dog view" - but didn't really help) making it VERY tough!! They did fly off of them, e.g. the USS Sicily in Korea. Respect!

[DaveB]

I think for some evolutions.. an essential bit of kit has to be TrackIR.. which I no longer have.. but whether this would help seeing around the Corsairs nose, I don't know.

EDIT: I've just put her down on HMS Ocean a couple of times but that's a bit longer than the Casablanca class. A case of lining up with the island and falling out of the sky at the right time!!

ATB
DaveB:)

[fliger747]

One has to admire the hose nose guys assigned to the smaller decks. I am sure peripheral vision played an important part here, one got used to the shape, texture and position of the ships wake. The most important thing one can do is to judge the turn to final such that one really only gets wings level just before the cut. A little extra (means a lot of right rudder) rudder helps keep the LSO platform in view for the cut. In essence the whole deal starts with making the properly placed turn to final from downwind. The last thing to do is wings level before the cut.

At least the CVL's could make good speed. The poor guys trying to land Seafires aboard CVE's in the Med with no wind had a very high attrition rate just due to deck "landings".

T

[PRB]

Right rudder! Hadn't thought of that. I've been doing CQ around CV-12 in the F4U-1A with Tom's FDE, with John's adjustments for the later A2A release. This beast is a handful in the CQ pattern. I'm 1 knot from being one of those "eliminated ensigns", swimming with the fishies behind the boat, on almost every circuit. I can never get the turn setup correctly. Always end up right behind the ship, too far back, after turning too tight and almost departing. But, the right rudder trick is useful. Crabs the nose over a bit. I set 16 knots of wind, with the ship going 25 knots (ish). Haven't nosed over yet. I setup a formation with a couple DDs acting as visual turn points. Not sure it's helping yet... Good stuff.

[expat]

Yeah, gets you sweating in the CQ pattern PRB for sure! Managed a trap - just - this time on the CVL USS Cabot. Stopped with one wheel a foot from deck edge. Still, I could walk away . . Then my immersion bubble went POP! when I decided to press slew to move her back for a relaunch - the plane then went shooting out a mile off to starboard like a hockey puck - LOL! :banghead:

Second trap on the Cabot was clean, no nose over, followed by a good cat shot. Success! Satisfaction!

Ruined the momentary elation by getting cocky and trying to trap on the larger CV-45 Valley Forge (here in the library and a great looking cv). Saw I was too high 30 ft out due to the vc magnification set wrong (this happens to me all too often), fussed then with moving the eye point down and out to the left BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SEE FOR SH***T (like trying to drive a tank with no outside views), and then blew it big time. Augured-in - yes, not a ramp strike but a real nose first, stalling cork screw - at about the second wire. Really very ugly. Why? Embarrassingly, of all things, simply by letting my AS fall too low. DOH!!! Back to work!

http://41.media.tumblr.com/cfc81e5bb42f2b090f90293286494a38/tumblr_n9uttaxXNp1sjqxemo1_1280.jpg

[expat]

A relevant read:

http://www.aviationclassics.co.uk/news/issue-12-f4u-corsair-carrier-crash

[Stickshaker]

Thanks for all the interesting information here!
I read somewhere that Corsair pilots often did not see the deck in the last seconds before landing, just (part of) the LSO. That happens to me quite a lot, but it is not really a problem. If you know where the LSO is, you know where the ship is.
But how anybody would want to do this at night.....?
Btw; here is the tailhook entry for the Flying Stations Seafury that I modified, based on John's suggestions. It seems to cure the tipping-over problem, but at a price. The short hook gives a lot of yaw if you don't land in exactly the right place (and perhaps even if you land in the right place, but I have not been able to find that out).

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2
tailhook_position = -35, 0, 0
cable_force_adjust = 1

[DaveB]

Yes.. it's been a great thread thus far and long may it continue:very_drunk:

Hmm.. the Sea Fury is another model I need to reload. Without wanting to drag this thread OT.. does the model fly level for you Stickshaker? I've not flown it for a while but the fact it wandered to the right (if I remember right) stopped my using it. Will try that mod once I've re-installed it again;)

EDIT: That TH entry works just fine mate. The Sea Fury handles like a drunk on ice at close to stall speed but I didn't notice any adverse effects on catching the wire. The aircraft straightened up (levelled on it's fore/aft axis) then settled back on it's tail wheel. I tried a couple of times before adding the edit and while I admit I'm out of practise on the Sea Fury.. she nosed over at the same weight and speed. Tried 2 traps with the edit.. both fine;)
ATB
DaveB:)

[bentwing]

Hello:

I am really enjoying this thread; seeing how older models are being reborn and the discussions that follow about their real world counterparts. Thanks to all!

One question: is anyone else experiencing the cowl flaps being activated with the brakes on the Corsair with the latest FDE update? I can't seem to get that sorted...

Thanks,

[PRB]

Tom mentioned right rudder, and I thought it was used to kick the nose over a bit, allowing you to see better on final approach. Then I read the article that expat posted (great story), and it seems you really needed a lot of right rudder. I don't understand why. Are we not just in a coordinated left turn during the approach? Why is so much right rudder needed?

[Bomber_12th]

Regarding the use of right rudder, when you're dealing with airspeeds as low as they are for carrier approaches and landings in these types, near stalling speed and just a smidge above, you're getting into the area where torque and p-factor take-over, wanting to pull/swing you to the left, and you need to put in more and more right rudder to keep the ball centered - with carrier-landing these types, it's not your standard land-based landing speeds in the approach, and you're fluttering closer to the edge of the envelope - speed low, nose high. When we were recreating the Navy-modified P-51D that was put through carrier trials, I came across a great article written by Bob Elder, who was the pilot throughout those trials and was one of the Navy's most accomplished carrier/test pilots during WWII. As just an example, Elder mentions that when the Mustang was configured for landing, full-right rudder was required to keep the ball centered when stabilized at 82 mph - meaning, you really didn't want to get as slow as that, and the challenge with the Mustang was you couldn't land it on the carrier at speeds higher than 89-90 mph, otherwise you'd risk structural damage when the tailhook would trap a wire, so Elder had to stick it right at 85-86 mph every time. As Elder also stated, by the time of the Mustang carrier trials (November 1944), the turning-approach to the carrier deck, which was necessary for landing the Mustang aboard deck so as to maintain visibility of the LSO, was already common-practice, but as he also mentioned, visibility around the Mustang nose was no problem compared to an F4U or F6F with cowl flaps open.

[Bomber_12th]

I thought these photos were pretty comparable - note the similarity to FSX in attitude of the aircraft when at the full tension of the wire:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/Bomber_12th001/VoughtF4U-1CorsairofVF-12_zps922cabeb.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/Bomber_12th/media/Bomber_12th001/VoughtF4U-1CorsairofVF-12_zps922cabeb.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17onthedeckofUSSBunkerHillCV-17_zps49017412.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/Bomber_12th/media/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17onthedeckofUSSBunkerHillCV-17_zps49017412.jpg.html)

In these shots, you can see the aircraft connected to the catapult:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1no9ofVMF-213CAVG-9iswarmingupforfightfromtheflightdeckofUSSCopaheeC HVE-12_zps9f1af0bb.jpg~original (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/Bomber_12th/media/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1no9ofVMF-213CAVG-9iswarmingupforfightfromtheflightdeckofUSSCopaheeC HVE-12_zps9f1af0bb.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17isonthedeckofUSSBunkerHillCV-17_zps6cc166e0.jpg~original (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/Bomber_12th/media/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17isonthedeckofUSSBunkerHillCV-17_zps6cc166e0.jpg.html)

[Bomber_12th]

And results from when those early landings went bad:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17iscrashingontheflightdeckofUSSBunkerHillCV-19_zps47250184.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/Bomber_12th/media/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17iscrashingontheflightdeckofUSSBunkerHillCV-19_zps47250184.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17iscrashingontheflightdeckofUSSBunkerHillCV-19_zps9c76a0eb.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/Bomber_12th/media/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17iscrashingontheflightdeckofUSSBunkerHillCV-19_zps9c76a0eb.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17isupsetinlandingonthedeckofUSSBunkerHillCV-17_zps8ba42308.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/Bomber_12th/media/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17isupsetinlandingonthedeckofUSSBunkerHillCV-17_zps8ba42308.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17islandingonthenoseontheflightdeckofUSSBunkerHill CV-19_zpsa4a633cd.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/Bomber_12th/media/Bomber_12th001/F4U-1CorsairaircraftofVF-17islandingonthenoseontheflightdeckofUSSBunkerHill CV-19_zpsa4a633cd.jpg.html)

[PRB]

Regarding the use of right rudder, when you're dealing with airspeeds as low as they are for carrier approaches and landings in these types, near stalling speed and just a smidge above, you're getting into the area where torque and p-factor take-over, wanting to pull/swing you to the left, and you need to put in more and more right rudder to keep the ball centered - with carrier-landing these types, it's not your standard land-based landing speeds in the approach, and you're fluttering closer to the edge of the envelope - speed low, nose high. When we were recreating the Navy-modified P-51D that was put through carrier trials, I came across a great article written by Bob Elder, who was the pilot throughout those trials and was one of the Navy's most accomplished carrier/test pilots during WWII. As just an example, Elder mentions that when the Mustang was configured for landing, full-right rudder was required to keep the ball centered when stabilized at 82 mph - meaning, you really didn't want to get as slow as that, and the challenge with the Mustang was you couldn't land it on the carrier at speeds higher than 89-90 mph, otherwise you'd risk structural damage when the tailhook would trap a wire, so Elder had to stick it right at 85-86 mph every time. As Elder also stated, by the time of the Mustang carrier trials (November 1944), the turning-approach to the carrier deck, which was necessary for landing the Mustang aboard deck so as to maintain visibility of the LSO, was already common-practice, but as he also mentioned, visibility around the Mustang nose was no problem compared to an F4U or F6F with cowl flaps open.

Thanks John. Did some circuits around the base trying carrier approach speeds with various amounts of right rudder trimmed in. It works! Of course, Tom did tell us that... :) It's amazing how we can hear, but not listen. Or is that listen, but not hear? Anyhow, the beast is a bit easier to fly slow with the rudder trimmed right. Off to the boat. They're taking cover already... :)

[fliger747]

The last couple of photos the plane caught the barrier! Bounced over the wires or some such.

Rather amazing the best landing trim settings also work perfectly for takeoff.

T

[PRB]

... Rather amazing the best landing trim settings also work perfectly for takeoff. ...

Imagine that... My "light bulb going off over my head" moment for today... :)

[Katoun]

Hi,

We are wondering if anyone has tried the AF Corsair in P3D. Does it work properly? How many of you are using it there?

Thank you.

Kat.

[PRB]

Just tried it. Seems to work great with no issues (p3d v2)

[roger-wilco-66]

Kat, ditto here, works great in P3D V 2.4! One of my favs, I fly it frequently!

Cheers,
Mark