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Panther_99FS
August 31st, 2014, 15:49
Chase Elliot to replace Kasey Kahne?
All the other Hendrick drivers are supposedly locked in for a few years except Kasey...

EasyEd
August 31st, 2014, 17:54
Hey All,

That would be dumb. I doubt it.

-Ed-

Panther_99FS
August 31st, 2014, 18:12
Whoops false rumor.
Ernie Cope is supposed to be Chase's crew chief for 2015...

Panther_99FS
August 31st, 2014, 19:47
Kasey musta' read this thread! :a1310:

Bushpounder
August 31st, 2014, 20:03
Kasey hung in there! Good to see all four Hendick drivers in the Winner's Circle. And Danica came in sixth! Good race - Jimmy didn't win! :)

BP;)

EasyEd
August 31st, 2014, 20:07
Hey All,

Kasey the man!! His year has been krap but tonight puts him in. When the chips are down some drivers know how to step up! Always bet on those guys. I don't think for a second Rick Hendrick would have given up on Kasey.

Once again Kyle proves what a no talent he is.

And I'll comment on something you said a week or so ago. You like Penske but not his drivers. Well Penske has figured out if you want to win in NASCAR hire stock car drivers not open wheeler stock car wannabes. Look at the comparison open wheelers in NASCAR and Kurt Busch as a rookie does what at Indy? No comparison.

-Ed-

Panther_99FS
August 31st, 2014, 20:24
And I'll comment on something you said a week or so ago. You like Penske but not his drivers. Well Penske has figured out if you want to win in NASCAR hire stock car drivers not open wheeler stock car wannabes. Look at the comparison open wheelers in NASCAR and Kurt Busch as a rookie does what at Indy? No comparison.

-Ed-

And I will comment on your comment....
Generally speaking, in Indycar, I never much liked Penske drivers either....But I still respected the man and what he accomplished.

You are simplifying things too much to try and prove something that only exists in your mind - But I've got you figured out now & thus, you can't rile me up anymore...:smile:

Panther_99FS
August 31st, 2014, 20:29
Once again Kyle proves what a no talent he is.

-Ed-

Kyle has talent - but he has regressed mentally this year.
So far, his brother seems to have learned a thing or two.

If Joe Gibbs were to drop Kyle - IMHO, none of the big/fast teams would pick him up.

Panther_99FS
August 31st, 2014, 20:30
Kasey hung in there! Good to see all four Hendick drivers in the Winner's Circle. And Danica came in sixth! Good race - Jimmy didn't win! :)

BP;)

Yes - overall, The Chase is going to be interesting. "Win you're in" is one of the better rule changes in recent years....

EasyEd
August 31st, 2014, 20:44
Hey All,

It only exists in my mind and in fact. The recent record speaks for itself - I do not need to

Racing has evolved beyond the man (driver) clearly being the dominant factor where a man could race multiple types of cars and still be the dominant factor. This 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s to some extent kind of racing may be what you want but it no longer exists and never will again unless rules bring it back. NASCAR has evolved to where turning left (everybody is skilled a turning left or right) is less important than the ability to communicate and fine tune a car with a CC. I've little doubt the ability to provide the input into an Indy car plus ability got Kurt the success at Indy.

-Ed-

PS Mental problems/regression is not the hallmark of a great race car driver.

stansdds
September 1st, 2014, 04:30
Kyle has talent - but he has regressed mentally this year.
So far, his brother seems to have learned a thing or two.

If Joe Gibbs were to drop Kyle - IMHO, none of the big/fast teams would pick him up.

Kyle seemed to be showing a lack of something last night. :dizzy:

I see that Carl Edwards will be driving the fourth Joe Gibbs car, guess Elliot Sadler needs to either get used to being a permanent full time Nationwide Series driver or look elsewhere.

Panther_99FS
September 1st, 2014, 06:26
Kyle seemed to be showing a lack of something last night. :dizzy:

I see that Carl Edwards will be driving the fourth Joe Gibbs car, guess Elliot Sadler needs to either get used to being a permanent full time Nationwide Series driver or look elsewhere.

Agreed about Kyle! In light of all the Stewart stuff going on, you think he would have learned something.
Also agree about Elliot. I don't see him getting a full time cup ride anymore either - especially with some of the fast young guns in Nationwide....

Daveroo
September 1st, 2014, 07:17
Hey All,

It only exists in my mind and in fact. The recent record speaks for itself - I do not need to

Racing has evolved beyond the man (driver) clearly being the dominant factor where a man could race multiple types of cars and still be the dominant factor. This 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s to some extent kind of racing may be what you want but it no longer exists and never will again unless rules bring it back. NASCAR has evolved to where turning left (everybody is skilled a turning left or right) is less important than the ability to communicate and fine tune a car with a CC. I've little doubt the ability to provide the input into an Indy car plus ability got Kurt the success at Indy.

-Ed-

PS Mental problems/regression is not the hallmark of a great race car driver.

when you speak of "open wheel" are you indicating only "Indy Cars"?,and i dont really see what kurt busch's one off good drive at the 500 is something specail,and needs to be used to say "stock car drivers" havent got it unless they came from,or can drive open wheelers. or maybe im totally missing your point.

bottomline,"open wheelers" come from the sprint car and midget ranks too,....and some are damned good,,Jeff Gordon,Tony Stewart (remember he was a championship winning sprint car driver long before he ran his first indy car race,Jason Leffler,AJ Allmendinger,JJ Yelley ,they may not be big winners in nascar,but theyre competitve,then theres guys like Kyle Larson...oh never mind...

Panther_99FS
September 1st, 2014, 07:26
Dave,
The problem with Indycar these days is that (IMHO) the damage done by Tony George is now virtually beyond repair. At it's peak, the cars had close to 1000 HP with turbo. They were tough to drive & separated the good from the great drivers.

Then came Tony George & his go kart powered IRL cars. Now, an individual who couldn't make it in CART could potentially be an IRL champ!

The turbos are back on the current Indycars but horsepower is still woefully low (around 600-750). IMHO, if Indycar is going to get any respect back, then the horsepower is going to have to get back to the 900+ range which will turn re-separate the good from the great drivers!

Panther_99FS
September 1st, 2014, 07:35
when you speak of "open wheel" are you indicating only "Indy Cars"?,and i dont really see what kurt busch's one off good drive at the 500 is something specail,and needs to be used to say "stock car drivers" havent got it unless they came from,or can drive open wheelers. or maybe im totally missing your point.


Exactly!
Tony George created the all-Oval IRL specifically for American oval racers who came up through the Sprint (USAC) Car ranks!

Problem is, TG got it all wrong when he lowered and IRL car's horsepower to some 300hp LESS than Sprint Cars....:monkies:

EasyEd
September 1st, 2014, 09:17
Hey All,

Why was the horsepower lowered?

-Ed-

joe bob
September 1st, 2014, 09:22
I think TG's problem was to quickly get a car that was inexpensive for team owners but also the series was going to focus on oval racing which presents several issues
By the end of the CART series the technology was such that speeds had reached very dangerous number. There was a collective sigh of relief when you left a track like Michigan without anyone getting seriously hurt.
Now the new series was going to be all about that type of track plus the 1-1.5 mile tracks where packing that many open wheel cars into that small a space was going to ramp up the contact.
Every major league series has struggled with the problem of slowing down fast cars, and I don't think a solution that pleases everyone has been found. TG had to quickly come up with at least a quick and dirty solution.

With that said, he destroyed open wheel racing in the US. I have come to understand some of his reasons for what he did,Roger Penske had much more blame than meets the eye, but Tony George decided to take the nuclear option
Indy car has been a sad back water series ever since.

Panther_99FS
September 1st, 2014, 12:47
I think TG's problem was to quickly get a car that was inexpensive for team owners but also the series was going to focus on oval racing which presents several issues
By the end of the CART series the technology was such that speeds had reached very dangerous number. There was a collective sigh of relief when you left a track like Michigan without anyone getting seriously hurt.
Now the new series was going to be all about that type of track plus the 1-1.5 mile tracks where packing that many open wheel cars into that small a space was going to ramp up the contact.
Every major league series has struggled with the problem of slowing down fast cars, and I don't think a solution that pleases everyone has been found. TG had to quickly come up with at least a quick and dirty solution.

With that said, he destroyed open wheel racing in the US. I have come to understand some of his reasons for what he did,Roger Penske had much more blame than meets the eye, but Tony George decided to take the nuclear option
Indy car has been a sad back water series ever since.

Yes and that IRL car's safety was terrible at best - and bringing down the horsepower did absolutely nothing for safety...that car was simply unsafe.
That being said, I agree that in the big scheme, Roger Penske wasn't innocent...neither was Ganassi....(i.e., the CART owners).

Things should've been worked out but you are correct again - TG took the nuclear option and with the IRL's bad management (remember Andrew Craig?),....Indycar most likely will never recover.

The current cars brought a LITTLE bit of horsepower back (50-100) & the turbos are a welcome addition. Nice to see the current leadership thinking aero reduction first to reduce speed rather than lopping off horsepower...

Current turbocharged Indycars produce from 550-750 HP depending on how they're tuned. In comparison, the IRL cars produced 650-700HP with no turbos.

stansdds
September 2nd, 2014, 03:41
I think TG's problem was to quickly get a car that was inexpensive for team owners but also the series was going to focus on oval racing which presents several issues
By the end of the CART series the technology was such that speeds had reached very dangerous number. There was a collective sigh of relief when you left a track like Michigan without anyone getting seriously hurt.
Now the new series was going to be all about that type of track plus the 1-1.5 mile tracks where packing that many open wheel cars into that small a space was going to ramp up the contact.
Every major league series has struggled with the problem of slowing down fast cars, and I don't think a solution that pleases everyone has been found. TG had to quickly come up with at least a quick and dirty solution.

With that said, he destroyed open wheel racing in the US. I have come to understand some of his reasons for what he did,Roger Penske had much more blame than meets the eye, but Tony George decided to take the nuclear option
Indy car has been a sad back water series ever since.

And NASCAR is looking to do the same thing with horsepower and for the same reasons, expense and safety. The end result might be the same too, a glorified and very expensive go-kart race.

Panther_99FS
September 2nd, 2014, 11:41
Some food for thought about the safety of these reduced horsepower cars:

-Dan Wheldon, Paul Dan, & Tony Renna all died.
-Sam Schmitt is paralyzed from the neck down.
-Dario Franchitti & Kenny Braack can never race again.

Terry
September 2nd, 2014, 13:51
The best way to make them safer is to leave the HP where it is, remove ground effects leaving stock body height, remove the spoiler and splitter, also use a harder tire with less grip. This will force the drivers to slow it down a lot entering the corners. It would be nice to see them have to drive again rather than just aim.

EasyEd
September 2nd, 2014, 17:51
Hey All,


Some food for thought about the safety of these reduced horsepower cars:

-Dan Wheldon, Paul Dan, & Tony Renna all died.
-Sam Schmitt is paralyzed from the neck down.
-Dario Franchitti & Kenny Braack can never race again.

Obviously open wheel need to bring in NASCAR experts on safety to render the cars safer. Look at NASCAR - they can now have horrendous looking crashes and everybody can have a juicebox afterwards. Can you seriously make the argument that any of these drivers would be fine if they crashed in the same way in a higher hp car faster? Of course not.

The point is racing is no longer and probably never again be truly about innovation, speed and pushing the edge of man's control over a car. Never again be about separating men from boys based on courage due to fear of bodily harm.

Racing is all about SAFETY because you must at all costs preserve the financial wealth of track owners and insurance companies. So safety trumps the freedom of driver courage and innovation because of money. Every fan, track worker, pit crew member and driver has a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT to go home safe and sound sucking on a juicebox after every race ------ and then there is the MONEY (see above). Safety ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS trumps freedom - see NSA DHS etc for the country but it applies to racing too. Any strategy that tries to allow increases in hp that tempt a man to do more than possible risking safety CANNOT be allowed. Max speed is what must be controlled/prepared for hence we are where we are. NASCAR, IRL and F1 have ALL slowed down.

Think of it this way - Dale Earnhardt died doing what he loved but maybe everybody looking at that crash understood - he should have lived - the car/track/rules just didn't allow it - there wasn't enough safety. Hence we MUST do everything in our power to enable the next Dale Earnhardt to live through a crash like that and race again. That is the lesson of Dale Earnhardt. Racing MUST inherently be made to be a SAFE sport.

I've said all of this so many times it makes me ill to do it again. I've never said I think it fundamentally right - I'm saying this is how it is. As long as we have societies that can sue for BIG MONEY based on lack of safety - even if lack of safety is what we want (cuz it cant happen to me) this will never change.

The solutions - tort reform, people's education about expectations, spend the money on tracks to handle more speed... Until some combination of these happen - get over it get used to it and enjoy some actually pretty good racing that just empathizes different aspects of racing. Oh an what good is bitking about missing a past that cannot be again.

JMBO! (translated - Just My Blunt Opinion) for whatever it is worth.

-Ed-

Panther_99FS
September 2nd, 2014, 18:53
Actually,
A combination of F1 & NASCAR safety experts would be best.

F1 hasn't had pro death since Senna in 1994 - the same cannot be said for NASCAR
Dario Franchitti's career ending crash on a street course has absolutely nothing in common with NASCAR whereas outside the obvious aero similarities in construct, F1 also races on street courses.

However, NASCAR expertise could be brought in the case of Sam Schmidt's paralysis causing crash on the Walt Disney World Oval...

With Wheldon's crash, a combination of F1 aero expertise and impact energy reduction expertise could be used with NASCAR back injury data.

Due the spring head injury received by F1s Felipe Massa (and argually Senna too), Indycar has now adopted the carbon fiber piece on the helmet for added driver protection. This is something that's not a necessity in NASCAR due to the closed cockpit. However, Sprint car drivers could probably benefit from this helmet mod.

Panther_99FS
September 3rd, 2014, 03:55
And that's the other side of the debate Wombat.

One could also debate that NASCAR vehicles are so safe now that restrictor plates are there only for fan safety & not driver safety.

b52bob
September 3rd, 2014, 04:21
Would very much like to see JJ in a F1 car. Not that we will, there is big $$$$ involved in sponsorship and I doubt JJ has that big of an ego like others.

Still......

Panther_99FS
September 3rd, 2014, 15:56
Would very much like to see JJ in a F1 car. Not that we will, there is big $$$$ involved in sponsorship and I doubt JJ has that big of an ego like others.

Still......

Don't think for a second that when Jimmie looks in the mirror, he doesn't know that he's the shi-te...The difference is that Jimmie doesn't wear his ego on his sleeve....But it's there alright.....:smile:

EasyEd
September 3rd, 2014, 17:06
Hey All,

Yes I think the issue is money and safety. It is both and true in NASCAR, IRL and F1. You can argue motorcycle racing is an exception yet Wombat said riders still get killed - be interesting to see how that goes in the future. There are two points that really matter here.

1) motorcycles are little - cars are big and cars coming apart as a result of a crash even bigger. Even if drivers are safe fans aren't and that is a huge consideration.
2) drivers on motorcycles do respect each other more than cars because of how exposed they are to harm and because they are small and can show more control. A stock car can flip 7 or 8 times and the driver just enjoy the ride and a juicebox.

To compare motorcycles to cars is I think bogus.

There is no good solution in my opinion other than a redesigned track built for more speed if that is what you want racing to be. But that costs big bucks.

I'd like to see Jimmie in an F1 car too with Chad as CC - only then they would need to run a Ford since only Ferrari engines have ever won more F1 races than Ford engines with how many more years of F1 racing? Only stands to reason American engines would rule over european. We got a good Ford F1 engine now?

An yes Jimmie has an ego but it is well controlled cuz he knows his roots - you have to have some ego or you ain't a racer.

-Ed-

Panther_99FS
September 3rd, 2014, 18:05
I'd like to see Jimmie in an F1 car too with Chad as CC - only then they would need to run a Ford since only Ferrari engines have ever won more F1 races than Ford engines with how many more years of F1 racing? Only stands to reason American engines would rule over european. We got a good Ford F1 engine now?

An yes Jimmie has an ego but it is well controlled cuz he knows his roots - you have to have some ego or you ain't a racer.

-Ed-

While I also wouldn't mind seeing Jimmie in F1, the Cosworth's disappeared after 2013 as they were woefully short on HP compared to the other manufacturers...

joe bob
September 3rd, 2014, 18:42
The numbers mentioned for motorcycle fatalities in a year seem larger than the average for most other motor sports.
Any contact in motorcycles is a huge deal so the rubbing is racing types tend to be quickly weeded out :)

The safety culture of NASCAR has very much improved since Dale Earnhardt died. NASCAR's attitude before then was one of relatively moderate rules with
a heavy emphasis on individual team responsibility. You don't like a HANS device, no sweat and so on. Any one entering the infield signed away their rights to NASCAR responsibility.
While CART had their own rescue teams and equipment including doctors, NASCAR had the local volunteer fire department and ambulance service show up on race day.
Then there were a rash of fatal accidents including Earnhardt and it became apparent something was no longer working.
The reason even large Newspapers like the Charlotte Observer were pressing to see Earnhardt's autopsy files was not morbid curiosity but the fact that no one really trusted NASCAR to face the issues involved.
NASCAR exploded in popularity soon after and the drivers became more like national rock stars and the face of the sport. NASCAR's attitude had to change and it has.


As far as the IRL goes, it is hard for me to imagine racing on the super speedways is ever going to be as safe as other types of racing. It is the track that has not been able to keep up with the expectations of safety as much as if not more than the cars.

Panther_99FS
September 3rd, 2014, 19:16
As far as the IRL goes, it is hard for me to imagine racing on the super speedways is ever going to be as safe as other types of racing. It is the track that has not been able to keep up with the expectations of safety as much as if not more than the cars.

JoeBob,
IMHO, it's all about aero and NOT hp...here's why.

In the 70s right up until the IRL, at IMS, the cars were achieving BIG straightaway speed. But there wasn't much grip in the corners so drivers had to LIFT off the throttle.

IMS straightaway speeds now are roughly the same but the difference is that folks are going flat out with virtually no lifting. Corner speeds are quite high.

And where are a huge amount of accidents? In the corners....

EasyEd
September 3rd, 2014, 20:46
Hey All,

So by taking away aero grip most accidents will happen on the straights? You want these guys to have a foot clutch too? Roll back the calendar to the 70s and try chasing hp acceleration down the straights? Screaming big block engines - who can out brake who - good gawd lawsuits for hearing loss. You think that is safer? I doubt it. Changes the character of the racing to a blast from the past which is the memory lane some want to return to - but safer?

-Ed-

joe bob
September 4th, 2014, 04:26
JoeBob,
IMHO, it's all about aero and NOT hp...here's why.

In the 70s right up until the IRL, at IMS, the cars were achieving BIG straightaway speed. But there wasn't much grip in the corners so drivers had to LIFT off the throttle.

IMS straightaway speeds now are roughly the same but the difference is that folks are going flat out with virtually no lifting. Corner speeds are quite high.

And where are a huge amount of accidents? In the corners....

Yes, being a rectangle Indy does have the potential to slow down cars. The last time I paid attention to Indy I think they were lightly braking on entry.

The super speedways I think are best left to the past are ones like Talladega. The wide sweeping turns were great for the 1960s where everyone was impressed by every advance in speed but now it is just dangerous
and the racing is a mockery of what real racing should be. Some fans seem impressed by the close racing but it is all artificial.

The ideal race track to me is one where the driver has plenty of horsepower, in fact enough that he has to modulate it coming out of turns lest he get loose. Seeing a driver on a road course hustling the car is pure racing to me.
One that goes from rain to dry during the race really separates the men from the boys, pure heaven to watch.

b52bob
September 4th, 2014, 13:27
NASCAR should throw in at least 2-3 dirt track races. Replace the Talledaga races with these. Should show us who has the talent!

Bob

Terry
September 4th, 2014, 14:55
Lets keep Talladega but flatten the turns.

Panther_99FS
September 4th, 2014, 16:07
Yes, being a rectangle Indy does have the potential to slow down cars. The last time I paid attention to Indy I think they were lightly braking on entry.

The super speedways I think are best left to the past are ones like Talladega. The wide sweeping turns were great for the 1960s where everyone was impressed by every advance in speed but now it is just dangerous
and the racing is a mockery of what real racing should be. Some fans seem impressed by the close racing but it is all artificial.

The ideal race track to me is one where the driver has plenty of horsepower, in fact enough that he has to modulate it coming out of turns lest he get loose. Seeing a driver on a road course hustling the car is pure racing to me.
One that goes from rain to dry during the race really separates the men from the boys, pure heaven to watch.

Agreed 100% :applause:

Panther_99FS
September 4th, 2014, 16:09
NASCAR should throw in at least 2-3 dirt track races. Replace the Talledaga races with these. Should show us who has the talent!

Bob

Truck race at Eldora was the best race of the season - Sprint & Nationwide series included! :jump:

EasyEd
September 4th, 2014, 18:36
Hey All,


Some fans seem impressed by the close racing but it is all artificial.

The ideal race track to me is one where the driver has plenty of horsepower, in fact enough that he has to modulate it coming out of turns lest he get loose. Seeing a driver on a road course hustling the car is pure racing to me.
One that goes from rain to dry during the race really separates the men from the boys, pure heaven to watch.

Close racing is great! It just takes a different set of skills - co-opetition as DW called it. Adds great variety to short track and road courses in NASCAR. Nothing artificial about it in any way shape or form.

The second sentence is exactly how you justify watching two drivers racing for 2nd a minute or two behind first - particularly in F1. You can call it great racing I don't - just losers battling to see who has the bigger L on their forehead. The point is to win the race - not a man in a car versus a man in a car to see who can get by who - if it isn't for first or working for a real chance to get to first I'll change the channel to golf. I admit sometimes it is amusing if they stroo up. It can also matter in a tight points race but usually does not. To each their own. Me my favorites are basically NASCAR, OffRoad, WRC, and Aussie Utes - Open wheel if it is handy to watch and close - but I never get up early to watch a rigged race - cars should be quasi equal and be about drivers not owners. France got this right even though I have been disgusted at how he has treated my MoPar brands through the years - from the 426 to the wings.

As for Wombat he should look up the history of Cosworth. Ford and Cosworth worked together for decades since like 58. So yes a Ford Cosworth or Ford is an American engine since Ford is American. As soon as you partner with an American company the product is no longer pure European (in this case). I never said or implied that blocks or heads or any such were moved from America to Cosworth to make a Ford Cosworth or Ford - but to think Ford had nothing to do with those engines I think is not real. I bet there were Ford engineers in those shops - be interesting to know to what extent. Now Ferrari is pure European.

I haven't watched Nationwide or Trucks much lately - no time so if there is true talent like a Logano coming up I haven't seen it - maybe time to catch up a bit.

-Ed-

joe bob
September 5th, 2014, 03:53
Ed, when speaking of close racing I was referring to the drafting that goes on at talledega. Spotters negotiating during the race to pick drafting partners, no matter how good the car or driver no one can pull away from a pack, basically it is close proximity racing not close competition. I think it is artificial because it is the restrictions placed on the engines that make for that nose to tail pack of cars not closely matched cars and drivers.
That is artificial close racing to me.
Close competition such as a Darlington race where two guys have spent the whole afternoon dialing in their cars, one has it working best in the short radius turn and the other has it dialed in to the wider radius turn, coming out of turn 4 door to door, that is NASCAR at it's most pure.

EasyEd
September 5th, 2014, 09:53
Hey All,

First Cosworth history at the Cosworth site says early on maybe in 58 when it began developing the Ford 105E engine which won a race in 1960. Jim Clark was the driver. Ford and Cosworth apparently go back to the very first days of Cosworth. Ford UK has always been owned by Ford USA since Henry Ford started it in the 20s (I know of the earlier incarnation from 1909) - Ford UK is not a company independent of it's owner - neither is Ford Europe or any other country. I've no doubt ford USA approved Ford UK working with Cosworth or I bet some portion of those expenditures would have come back to American shareholders. Anyway Ford and Cosworth partnered on engines for decades until 98 when guess who outright bought Cosworth? Ford! And on it goes - what kind of engine goes into an Aston Martin today? Well duh a Ford duratec developed with guess who? Cosworth! To try to separate Ford from Cosworth is I think ridiculous and Ford is American. Now when did Ford engineers first work with Cosworth engineers - I've no idea - the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, when? I'd like to know but if a pure 100% (as pure as Ferrari) Cosworth engine with no ford expertise or cash involvement won all those F1 races call it a cosworth not a ford. Now those books you list are interesting - which one spells out the corporate business side in detail cash and expertise flows - forget the racing history - which one lays out the who met who and talked to who about what and the terms of every deal between ford and cosworth. That is the one that I am interested in. Now it may well be that ford provided cash and took the glory of name association and absolutely nothing else of any kind ever went on whatsoever but I'll need proof of that. Makes no sense that two companies can be so intertwined since apparently day 1 and nothing went on.

Anyway getting back to close racing - I did mean talledega style racing. I see it as completely valid racing just a different form. I would not want it to be on week after week but the 4 races a year we have now are fine with me and I would hate to see them go. I do not ascribe to the idea that the purity of racing means basically 2 drivers 2 cars and a track or road in whatever weather no other limitations trying to beat each other is the only way to define racing. Auto racing is a competition between drivers in cars under whatever conditions artificial or not. But that is my way of looking at it.

-Ed-

Panther_99FS
September 5th, 2014, 14:49
To each their own.
-Ed-

Interesting how on the one hand you say the above...

But then on the other, you take every opportunity that you can to insult or put down other people's choices in motorsports....Yep, I understand you now...:mixed-smiley-010:

Panther_99FS
September 5th, 2014, 14:51
Close competition such as a Darlington race where two guys have spent the whole afternoon dialing in their cars, one has it working best in the short radius turn and the other has it dialed in to the wider radius turn, coming out of turn 4 door to door, that is NASCAR at it's most pure.

Darlington is definitely good racing! :applause:
(Note: I would still love to see Rockingham back on the circuit),,,,

EasyEd
September 5th, 2014, 16:09
Hey All,

I guess P in your mind it is wrong to have an opinion. I never associate what I think of a motorsport with the other people who might like that motor sport - that is I am never insulting another person for liking what they like. As I said to each their own.

-Ed-

Panther_99FS
September 5th, 2014, 23:18
Having an opinion is one thing.
Knowing when and when not to express it during appropriate and inappropriate times is another.

stansdds
September 6th, 2014, 05:09
I make no bones about it. I am not a fan of the super speedway, restrictor plate races. I much prefer racing on short tracks or even road courses. 1.5 miles is plenty long for circle track racing and the NASCAR circuit is full of them. I think some of the absolute best racing is seen at Darlington, Richmond, Bristol, and Martinsville. What these tracks have in common? They are all under 1.5 miles. Drivers race against each other, not racing with drafting partners. They can beat and bang fenders, go full bore down the straights and two-wide (three if you are insane) in the turns. Gas-brake-gas-brake all race long, not just put it in fourth gear and hold the pedal to the floor. Just my dos centavos. By the way, Richmond last night was a good Nationwide race, the Sprint Cup race tonight should be even better as there are four drivers competing for the last two spots in The Chase.

Terry
September 6th, 2014, 05:54
I make no bones about it. I am not a fan of the super speedway, restrictor plate races. I much prefer racing on short tracks or even road courses. 1.5 miles is plenty long for circle track racing and the NASCAR circuit is full of them. I think some of the absolute best racing is seen at Darlington, Richmond, Bristol, and Martinsville. What these tracks have in common? They are all under 1.5 miles. Drivers race against each other, not racing with drafting partners. They can beat and bang fenders, go full bore down the straights and two-wide (three if you are insane) in the turns. Gas-brake-gas-brake all race long, not just put it in fourth gear and hold the pedal to the floor. Just my dos centavos. By the way, Richmond last night was a good Nationwide race, the Sprint Cup race tonight should be even better as there are four drivers competing for the last two spots in The Chase.



Well said, I agree.

EasyEd
September 6th, 2014, 08:36
Hey All,

Wombat I have never doubted your knowledge of racing. What I am interested in is the cross-pollination of ideas and technology between companies. Ford and Cosworth go way back - - was there cross pollination if so when and what. Let me give you a modern example - if you know of maserati then you may know that the new engine in a maserati is a chrysler pentastar block matched to a ferrari head. Now that is cross pollination. If none of those books say then fine I don't have ready access to any of them.

As for racing types - one of the best things about NASCAR is the variety of racing - short tracks, 1.5 milers, road and superspeedways. They all require different skill sets and the cars all have a clutch and a working reverse. I wouldn't want any of this variety to disappear. I don't get the argument against superspeedways - just different skills needed and they are not a luckfest - that idea is I think bogus. On any track you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time - you see that most every week. And the opportunity to go from the back to the front relatively quickly is cool. JMO.

-Ed-

b52bob
September 6th, 2014, 13:16
Talk about a silly season...can we tone it down a bit?

Thanks

Panther_99FS
September 6th, 2014, 13:45
I much prefer racing on short tracks or even road courses. 1.5 miles is plenty long for circle track racing and the NASCAR circuit is full of them.

You know...
I think all 3 NASCAR series could put on a good show at the old Indy Nazareth circuit....:mixed-smiley-010:

stansdds
September 7th, 2014, 06:09
You know... I think all 3 NASCAR series could put on a good show at the old Indy Nazareth circuit....:mixed-smiley-010: Hmmmm, that would be interesting to see.

EasyEd
September 7th, 2014, 10:38
Hey All,

Well I was at the last local county fair in my area and so missed all but the last 125 laps or so at Richmond. As I settled in to watch it I was trying to figure out if Richmond was somehow turned into a mile and a half track. I saw way more 1.5 mile style racing than any short track racing. Now the announcer said it was hard to get the setups right but obviously Brad got it right. I bet the other part is that NASCAR "laid down the law" on anything that could look like a "shenanigan" to favor a driver and so everybody was real careful tippy toeing around each other. Seems karma works too - the "itchy" driver that spun leading to all last years "shenanigans" was first car outside the chase. Karma...

Saw the F1 results too - nothing surprising.

-Ed-

Panther_99FS
September 7th, 2014, 12:24
Hmmmm, that would be interesting to see.

Yeah the only problem is that it will probably never happen :(
-> http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=nazareth+speedway&FORM=HDRSC2

EasyEd
September 7th, 2014, 15:06
Hey All,


Believe it was the late Dan Wheldon who won the last race at the late Nazareth Speedway.

Don't know how many of you know of Mark Knopfler. Here he is with Emmylou.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeBAOC2u_Gw

Speedway at Nazareth.

Only prob with the video is it woulda been nice if Emmy had played a Martin instead a that big moustache Gibson - but it is her trademark guitar. Nazareth is the home of my favorite guitar maker - C F Martin Guitar.

NASCAR owners as part of ISC shut er down to move racing to Watkins Glen IIRC.

-Ed-

stansdds
September 8th, 2014, 01:56
Hey All,

Well I was at the last local county fair in my area and so missed all but the last 125 laps or so at Richmond. As I settled in to watch it I was trying to figure out if Richmond was somehow turned into a mile and a half track. I saw way more 1.5 mile style racing than any short track racing. Now the announcer said it was hard to get the setups right but obviously Brad got it right. I bet the other part is that NASCAR "laid down the law" on anything that could look like a "shenanigan" to favor a driver and so everybody was real careful tippy toeing around each other. Seems karma works too - the "itchy" driver that spun leading to all last years "shenanigans" was first car outside the chase. Karma...

Saw the F1 results too - nothing surprising.

-Ed-

Yes, the Sprint Cup race at Richmond was really tame this time. I'm sure, especially with the media recapping last year's shenanigans, that NASCAR laid down the law and everyone was on their best behavior. As for karma, that could very well be the case.

By the way, I got to see the flyover before any of the fans at RIR saw it. The formation of T6's flew over my house as I was grilling some steaks in preparation for the night's event.


Oh, and then there was this...

http://wtvr.com/2014/09/07/nascar-fan-on-fence-at-rir/

Stupid is as stupid does.

eddie
September 8th, 2014, 13:59
JJ had a tough time standing up after that race was over!

Panther_99FS
September 8th, 2014, 15:36
You know if you look at the video...
It seems like there's a Security Officer everyone 100ft or so.....

So how the heck did that guy get on the fence without one of those Security Officers stopping him? :dizzy:



Yes, the Sprint Cup race at Richmond was really tame this time. I'm sure, especially with the media recapping last year's shenanigans, that NASCAR laid down the law and everyone was on their best behavior. As for karma, that could very well be the case.

By the way, I got to see the flyover before any of the fans at RIR saw it. The formation of T6's flew over my house as I was grilling some steaks in preparation for the night's event.


Oh, and then there was this...

http://wtvr.com/2014/09/07/nascar-fan-on-fence-at-rir/

Stupid is as stupid does.

stansdds
September 9th, 2014, 01:55
You know if you look at the video... It seems like there's a Security Officer everyone 100ft or so..... So how the heck did that guy get on the fence without one of those Security Officers stopping him? :dizzy: He reportedly waited for the patrol officer to pass by, then quickly climbed the fence. He was drunk, it was his birthday and he wanted to be on tv.