Microsoft losses? [Archive]

Sascha66

January 24th, 2009, 03:05

"Microsoft says it will lay off 5,000 workers over the next 18 months, nearly five percent of its total workforce, as the tech giant's total profits for the fourth quarter of 2008 declined to $4.17 billion from $4.71 billion in the same period last year."

(from http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21971)

Everybody thinks that MS is cutting because of losses but they are still making billions in profit, my god! So why chuck people out overnight who are working on a product that has sold well for almost a quarter of a century?

This world has gone crazy, companies like MS don't care about us (their customers) or their employees (the people who generate their profits) any more.

Some guys somewhere do not want to give up the extra millions, 4 billion dollars profit is not enough!

So they throw dedicated people out overnight, some of them just having a couple of days to clear out! Here on Monday gone on Friday!

"But we believe these job eliminations are crucial to our ability to adjust the company’s cost structure so that we have the resources to drive future profitable growth," he added. Add some shillyshally about how sorry they are and presto, your profits are up again!

Don't they care about the people and their families who will suffer in these difficult times? NO! They don't!

We can't even stop buying MS products cause they'll just throw out a couple of thousand people more on the street!

I hope the guys making the big money off their employees and discard them for more money go to hell for all eternity!

:karate:

gajit

January 24th, 2009, 03:17

Yep - that is the way it is - always has been - always will be. I bet everyone everywhere wishes it could be different.

wombat666

January 24th, 2009, 03:26

Sascha66

January 24th, 2009, 03:33

Point of order here, we have no idea how much of the 'profit' is paying for current projects and/or future developments.
Any business venture must plan well ahead and invest well into the future, otherwise no business.
Sad for the casualties, but it is happening all over and things will get far worse before they get better.
:hand:

While that is true to a point, the profit is usually what remains after expenses on research etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/18/technology/18soft.html

LCBORDEN

January 24th, 2009, 05:53

YEP!! Profit is whats left after all extraneous expenses are removed. heheheheh, I had a long winded rant against corporate greed typed in, but decided pphhhbbtttt, it does no good, Maybe I'll go out and by a MAC.

ol'Jarhead :faint:

SkippyBing

January 24th, 2009, 06:27

jmig

January 24th, 2009, 06:36

It is ALL about the stock market my friends. You and I all want to see our 401s, nest eggs, and other investments grow. The stock brokers want to point to large gains every year, so you will invest more with him/her.

The stock market has helped give the industrial world the greatest life style in the history of the world. A style of living well beyond what the kings and queens of old commanded.

Yet, I sometimes feel like it is like the little kitten who grew into the Bengal tiger. The stock market is eating the very people it is supposed to help.

JMO

Boomer

January 24th, 2009, 07:37

Interesting piece here about the lay-offs in a broader context http://www.cringely.com/
To summarise MS is making the move to meet market expectations, to whit if they forecast earnings of $4.71Bn but only made $4.1Bn investors want to see action being taken to meet those expectations in the future. If they don't do anything they'll be seen as a less attractive investment opportunity, after all why invest in a company that's happy to let profits slide?
If the company is less attractive to investors the share price will fall which can end up being a threat to the existence of the company. Ask the Royal Bank of Scotland....

Skippy,

In generalities I would agree with you... However, name one company who is as solid & as attractive as MS?

This move is being spun but the real truth has yet to come to light IMO.

Being one who is heavily invested in the market that tiger has taken a HUGE chunk outta my butt!

bkeske

January 24th, 2009, 07:55

Maybe I'll go out and by a MAC.

ol'Jarhead :faint:

You don't think Mac makes a profit?

You either make a profit, or you close-up shop. Unless of course you are the govern......

Kiwikat

January 24th, 2009, 07:59

You don't think Mac makes a profit?

LOL. http://forum.football-wallpapers.com/Smileys/fw/rofl3.gif

CodyValkyrie

January 24th, 2009, 08:15

I hope the guys making the big money off their employees and discard them for more money go to hell for all eternity!

:karate:
I'm sorry, but I have to pick this out and run with it. If you are not in business to make money, you will never be successful. Everyone wants to make a good buck, and everyone wants to make riches off of their work. Sometimes you gotta be stiff nosed for that to happen, and inevitebly any company that wants to sustain a market downfall and still continue making a profit has to make such choices.

Wishing them to be sent to hell is like condemning anyone that wants to be successful. It is unfair, not tact and certainly shows immaturity in what it takes to successfully run a business.

That said, to all those affected I truly am sorry. I hope that those affected take this loss and build from it. When life gives you lemons, make lemonade!

Sascha66

January 24th, 2009, 08:18

You either make a profit, or you close-up shop. Unless of course you are the govern......Profit is ok by me, the point being that MS feels it is not making enough profit. So they avoid future cuts in profit by firing people.

If you think about it, constant growth can't work in a closed system (which we have essentially arrived in, considering we have a global economy). So if you make profits in times where there is no natural growth, somebody else is probably making a loss and you are taking the bit of cake that they used to have.

In MS case they are transferring their potential losses to their employees - they are firing 'em - so they are not earning money - so they are making losses. MS doesn't have to spend - they save money! (Of course MS risk earning less money because we won't be able to buy FS any longer..lol)

As long as people are willing to work for MS when they are hiring and paying, the system will work. They will always find new people which they can go on to dump if the need arises.

What pisses me off especially is the nasty way they went about it.

SkippyBing

January 24th, 2009, 08:22

Being one who is heavily invested in the market that tiger has taken a HUGE chunk outta my butt!

Tell me about it, my retirement fund is looking more like a joke every day!

You don't think Mac makes a profit?

Interestingly not only do Mac make a profit, but they're blocking moves for artists to get a greater cut of the profits from selling songs as it'd eat into their profits from the iTunes store.

fliger747

January 24th, 2009, 09:10

The only corporate morality these days appears to be money. Executive bonuses are often tied to certain performance statistics or stock options. The game of expectations plays a lot into the stock price. Sadly upper management and boards (usually wimps) do not look at the long term.

What this speaks to? Bigger profit margin and lower customer expectations in the kiddie black box market. I have expected such a move for a long time.

FS9 being key disk based may outlast FSX which is activated only through the auspices of a company which may or may not continue to support it.

T.

Sascha66

January 24th, 2009, 15:24

I'm sorry, but I have to pick this out and run with it. If you are not in business to make money, you will never be successful. Everyone wants to make a good buck, and everyone wants to make riches off of their work. Sometimes you gotta be stiff nosed for that to happen, and inevitebly any company that wants to sustain a market downfall and still continue making a profit has to make such choices.

Wishing them to be sent to hell is like condemning anyone that wants to be successful. It is unfair, not tact and certainly shows immaturity in what it takes to successfully run a business.

That said, to all those affected I truly am sorry. I hope that those affected take this loss and build from it. When life gives you lemons, make lemonade!

Like I said I don't mind making people making profit, what i don't like is companies like MS laying off (in a small way considering how large MS is) people to satisfy the finance market. That is the only reason they are laying off people - they didn't meet the projected numbers.
Why shouldn't 4 billion profits be enough?

Their loss is real, not on paper. They are not losing a margin of their profits but their livelihood!

Of course you can't expect a company making real losses not to lay off people. They have to protect the substance of the company. But MS is a long way from being at risk or poor. I call their behaviour greedy and irresponsible. As an employer you have some responsibility for your employees.

More's the pity that laying off people to improve your shareholder value has become accepted business practice!

Maturity is about responsibility. I have been running a small company for 10 years now and we have never laid off anyone without finding a solution to help them and never at short notice!. MS just chucked people out overnight!

I don't condemn people for wanting to be successful- I condemn MS for not thinking that 4 billion (for the last quarter)is enough profit. Oh dear, profit may even drop to 3.8 billion for the next quarter - we gotta save money. Let's realign our work force with our key business interests. Hey you, your email won't work tomorrow and you won't get into the building anymore - better take your stuff out right now!

Don't call me immature when I wish hell on these callous people - what else can I do? At least this calls up a vision of sizzling corporate butts. In reality the guys responsible for the losses at MS and in the stock market are sitting on nice, comfortable, money-stuffed chairs.

:wavey:

Sascha66

January 24th, 2009, 15:44

Nice editorial comment on flightsim here:

http://www.flightsim.com/main/op-ed/ed420.htm

icarus

January 24th, 2009, 16:12

Sascha66

January 25th, 2009, 02:41

perhaps i am wrong but i'm seeing another point,.....imagine products as real exstreme enviroment and fspassengerx, they went out after years since fsx started, if we will have fsxI after another 2 years imagine how many new products as those will come. Also after sp1 sp2 and acceleration now developers know how product a really stable and compatible product.

I think us simmers have good reason not to despair - addon producers will continue to supply us with stuff to tide us over until MS revives the series.

Unless some MS copyright lawyers clamp down on the addon market because they are not making money out of it...

Francois

January 25th, 2009, 04:06

I think us simmers have good reason not to despair - addon producers will continue to supply us with stuff to tide us over until MS revives the series.

Unless some MS copyright lawyers clamp down on the addon market because they are not making money out of it...

MS is not making money out of it now either, and never has. I am more concerned about idiots like Textron who hire outside companies to hunt developers to pay for the Cessna signs and name on things.... instead of recognizing we're doing them a huge favor by making free publicity :kilroy:

Sascha66

January 25th, 2009, 04:13

MS is not making money out of it now either, and never has. I am more concerned about idiots like Textron who hire outside companies to hunt developers to pay for the Cessna signs and name on things.... instead of recognizing we're doing them a huge favor by making free publicity :kilroy:

That is so stupid.
:monkies:

IanP

January 25th, 2009, 04:41

Rather like oil and gas companies, which have been the easy target until recently, you have to remember that Microsoft's massive profits come from millions and millions of small transactions. It's easy to say "they should knock $1 off the price!" or "they should keep these people employed because they make money" but that profit can be gone in a heartbeat if you lose $1 off the price of millions of sales.

In this instance, I think the beancounters have made a mistake - or, more likely, have been told to trim around the edges rather than hit what is seen as the core of the company. MS can shed jobs in entertainment titles, but if they were seen to be sacking people in XBox, OS or Office development, their share price would tank immediately.

The company I work for is one of those big monoliths that like to stick their finger into every pie on the planet and, until very recently, they were raking in nice profits from property management and design. The floor has now dropped out of that and we - as a steady income, long term projects, part of the business, are being expected to carry them. When job losses come, they won't only be in the property arms, they'll come across the board. So which way is better - hitting a sector that management want to get out of anyway (they make no secret of wanting the XBox to be the centre of your every day life, replacing your PC, TV, radio and everything else) or cutting jobs across the board at a later date, like our lot will?