AI carrier group formation.

[Seahawk72s]

What would be a realistic formation of ships and helios to use in AICarrier for one of the Nimitz types doing aircraft recovery..?

For a launch evolution..?

[Seahawk72s]

What would be a realistic formation of ships and helios to use in AICarrier for one of the Nimitz types doing aircraft recovery..?

For a launch evolution..?


Ok, so if the formation is based on the "carrier strike group 8" makeup, which is quite a few ships, what might be a typical formation..?

The current group flagship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship) is the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz_class_aircraft_carrier) USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Dwight_D._Eisenhower_(CVN-69)). The other units of the group are USS Hué City (CG-66) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hu%C3%A9_City_(CG-66)), USS Farragut (DDG-99) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Farragut_(DDG-99)), USS Winston S. Churchill (DDG-81) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Winston_S._Churchill_(DDG-81)), Carrier Air Wing Seven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Air_Wing_Seven), and the ships of Destroyer Squadron 28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer_Squadron_28): USS Jason Dunham (DDG-109) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jason_Dunham_(DDG-109)), USS Elrod (FFG-55) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Elrod_(FFG-55)), USS Ramage (DDG-61) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ramage_(DDG-61)), USS Mitscher (DDG-57) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Mitscher_(DDG-57)), USS Cole (DDG-67) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_(DDG-67)), USS Donald Cook (DDG-75) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Donald_Cook_(DDG-75)), and USS Forrest Sherman (DDG-98) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Forrest_Sherman_(DDG-98)).

also would any helos be up standing guard during recovery..?

[Wizard]

In all my years in the Navy, I NEVER saw a helo doing plane guard. It's probably too risky. Almost always it was a destroyer, occasionally a frigate. I don't recall ever seeing a cruiser - as they were kept away for long range air defense. Ships equipped with ASW tails were kept away for anti-sub ops.

As to where to place ships - usually concentrated along the threat axis, so if you are steaming north and you expect a threat from the east, put a couple of cruisers to the east, (ie NE and SE) with an inner ring of destroyers and frigates around the carrier. Most, but certainly not all formations had the carrier in the "bullseye" - which of course makes spotting and targeting it ever so much easier. But certainly keep a FFG or two close aboard for defense. Probably the more random the placement the easier it is to hide the real location of a carrier. Kind of hard to hide air ops, though - so they are particularly vulnerable during that time.

Let me add that ships were always given sectors about which they were free to maneuver - the idea being to randomly change the formation and for self preservation - ie submarines find it very difficult to target a maneuvering ship. So for example one such sector might be - 070-110 degrees at a range of 6,000 - 10,000 yards.

[Navy Chief]

In all my years in the Navy, I NEVER saw a helo doing plane guard. It's probably too risky. Almost always it was a destroyer, occasionally a frigate. I don't recall ever seeing a cruiser - as they were kept away for long range air defense. Ships equipped with ASW tails were kept away for anti-sub ops.

As to where to place ships - usually concentrated along the threat axis, so if you are steaming north and you expect a threat from the east, put a couple of cruisers to the east, (ie NE and SE) with an inner ring of destroyers and frigates around the carrier. Most, but certainly not all formations had the carrier in the "bullseye" - which of course makes spotting and targeting it ever so much easier. But certainly keep a FFG or two close aboard for defense. Probably the more random the placement the easier it is to hide the real location of a carrier. Kind of hard to hide air ops, though - so they are particularly vulnerable during that time.

Let me add that ships were always given sectors about which they were free to maneuver - the idea being to randomly change the formation and for self preservation - ie submarines find it very difficult to target a maneuvering ship. So for example one such sector might be - 070-110 degrees at a range of 6,000 - 10,000 yards.

I could have sworn a helo was launched prior to beginning of all flight ops for recovery? NC

[Victory103]

1st to launch, last to land. Starboard Delta pattern is always active with flights ops, we actually rarely had one of the escort smallboys conduct PG duties, 99% of the time it was the then HS squadron, now HSC. I most of my enlisted career dressed out ready to go, 4hrs of boredom..waiting.

On the formation, typically one would never see the escorts from "mother" as they were out screening, the only time they would be close was for underway replenishment and photo ops.

[Seahawk72s]

In all my years in the Navy, I NEVER saw a helo doing plane guard. It's probably too risky. Almost always it was a destroyer, occasionally a frigate. I don't recall ever seeing a cruiser - as they were kept away for long range air defense. Ships equipped with ASW tails were kept away for anti-sub ops.

As to where to place ships - usually concentrated along the threat axis, so if you are steaming north and you expect a threat from the east, put a couple of cruisers to the east, (ie NE and SE) with an inner ring of destroyers and frigates around the carrier. Most, but certainly not all formations had the carrier in the "bullseye" - which of course makes spotting and targeting it ever so much easier. But certainly keep a FFG or two close aboard for defense. Probably the more random the placement the easier it is to hide the real location of a carrier. Kind of hard to hide air ops, though - so they are particularly vulnerable during that time.

Let me add that ships were always given sectors about which they were free to maneuver - the idea being to randomly change the formation and for self preservation - ie submarines find it very difficult to target a maneuvering ship. So for example one such sector might be - 070-110 degrees at a range of 6,000 - 10,000 yards.

Many thanks, great information..

[Seahawk72s]

1st to launch, last to land. Starboard Delta pattern is always active with flights ops, we actually rarely had one of the escort smallboys conduct PG duties, 99% of the time it was the then HS squadron, now HSC. I most of my enlisted career dressed out ready to go, 4hrs of boredom..waiting.

On the formation, typically one would never see the escorts from "mother" as they were out screening, the only time they would be close was for underway replenishment and photo ops.


Thanks for confirming....

[gray eagle]

I remember my Seaking days and they were first on and last off the carrier prior to and after the cruise. Prior to my aviation career, I can remember to my tin can sailor days
of doing plane guards for the smaller 27C carriers on the south china sea (Viet-Nam) then we would do Independent Steaming Exercises (ISE's); this would allow us to pull into ports that
the carriers could not i.e. Keelung, Taiwan or Kaoshung and some of the smaller ports in Queensland, Australia. That was a hoot.

[expat]

Just to say that having these real life observations from those of you who served and were actually there is hugely valuable and appreciated. :medals:

[jmbiii]

Wish I had a dollar for every hour spent in plane guard position. Intrepid, Wasp, Yorktown . . . we would hover at 100' even with the cables for recovery, a little bit forward of the island for launches and about 500 to 1000 yards aft of the fantail for unreps. It paid off. An A-4 got "cold-catted" off the starboard cat. Just before he hit the water the pilot "punched-out". Landed right in front of us. The Intrepid made a hard port turn. We had to wait for the pilot to clear his chute, I dropped the horse collar to him and hoisted him up. He wasn't in the water five or six minutes. Had him back on the Intrepid in 15 minutes.
Night launches and recoveries were handled by the "tin cans".

Ah, the "good old days" !

11511 11512

[expat]

For launches, on port or starboard side?

[jmbiii]

Starboard side always for both launch and recovery.
Oh, and during the unreps if the ships were headed into the wind the stack gas was really foul. Something the crews on the nuke carriers are missing out on.:biggrin-new:

[gray eagle]

Starboard side always for both launch and recovery.
Oh, and during the unreps if the ships were headed into the wind the stack gas was really foul. Something the crews on the nuke carriers are missing out on.:biggrin-new:

I...(cough..cough)... remember those days of the stack gas and soot. :adoration:

[Helldiver]

During WW II, up to the Korean War, we never used Helicopters. They were much too unreliable. They were falling out of the sky as fast as they were being built. I still don't trust them They feel like there shaking themselves apart.
But Wizard was right, we always had a couple of Destroyer plane guards astern, port and starboard.
I guess nowadays they've learned how to safety wire every nut and bolt on these Helicopters.
But they're not worth a darn during a dogfight.

[SkippyBing]

[QUOTE]But they're not worth a darn during a dogfight [QUOTE]

Oh I don't know, I've done fighter evasion and it's all the zoomies can do to find a helicopter when you're telling them where you are. Hell I've had them overfly me calling no joy. Plus there are at least a couple of Iranian fighters that got shot down by Hinds in the Iran Iraq war.
Back to plane guards and there were definetly S-51s being used in Korea, the RN carriers tended to borrow a USN cab to do theirs.

Still if you can't handle hovering there's always fixed wing...

[Helldiver]

Oh, I mean a real dogfight. Not with a a silly jet. I mean a F6 Hellcat sneaking up on one of these Choppers with his flaps down and hitting that little prop in back with his wing tip.
It makes the helicopter go crazy.

[SkippyBing]

Oh, I mean a real dogfight. Not with a a silly jet. I mean a F6 Hellcat sneaking up on one of these Choppers with his flaps down and hitting that little prop in back with his wing tip.
It makes the helicopter go crazy.

Oh you're talking about a fantasy dogfight, keep taking the meds.