Improve wheel/ground friction

[Roger]

Just loaded up Hama's great Fs9 ambulance and enjoyed a drive around Dishforth but it's more drifting than driving. Is there a way to increase wheel friction?

Looks great for a file under 1meg...

http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2014/07/22/9ymD3.jpg

[Dev One]

Drive more slowly? How fast were you trying to go?
Keith

[Bradburger]

Roger,

This might help.

If you have FSUIPC (free or registered version), you can add the line PatchSIM1friction=Yes in the [General] section of the ini file.

Saves having to use the modded sim1.dll that improves ground friction.

Cheers

Paul

[Roger]

Thanks Paul, I'll give it a try:ernaehrung004:

Keith, the top speed is only about 40 mph and cornering was at 10-20mph on a wide bend.

[napamule]

Roger,
The cnt pts needed tweaking. I did some mods. Added floats, so you can cross rivers. And the cfg did not have a (flight_tuning) section so added that. Plus, I souped it up to where it will climb a hill, if needed. Beefed up the brakes. Gave it spoiler for 'braking' (add drag). I did not 'work out' the 'fish tailing' that it has. Will do that later tonight. But for turning (in the Sim, not the 'real' world) it is best to use braking and rudder (which amounts to 'differential braking'). Try that and you will have more control on curves. You can use diff braking as you make turn and use to counter the fish tail after you finish your turn. Does 100 kts+ (best handling at 70 kts or below!!!). Copy/Paste to cfg (BACK UP Aircraft.cfg FIRST - warning-). Enjoy.

//FSX Mods to cfg for Hamaguchi Austin K2 Ambulance (Orig for FS9-circa 2006).

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight=5600.000 //o=2600
empty_weight= 2100.000 //o=1700
//Useful Load= 3500 Lbs (Fuel=140 Gals/925 Lbs)(Bal=2575 Lbs)
////Useful Load= 900 Lbs (Fuel=140 Gals/925 Lbs)(Bal= OVERWEIGHT
reference_datum_position=0.000000,0.000000,0.00000 0
empty_weight_CG_position=0.00000,0.000000,-3.0000
max_number_of_stations=50
station_load.0=0.000000,10.000000,0.000000,0.00000 0
//MOI's
empty_weight_roll_MOI= 4830.000 //o=2837
empty_weight_pitch_MOI= 2410.000 //o=3311
empty_weight_yaw_MOI= 8400.000 //o=4000
empty_weight_coupled_MOI=0.0
CG_forward_limit = 0.000
CG_aft_limit = 1.000

[contact_points]
//Wheels
point.0=1, 8.000, -3.200, -3.390, 19500.0, 0, 2.0, 45.0, 0.400, 12.5, 0.800, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0
point.1=1, 8.000, 3.200, -3.390, 19500.0, 0, 2.0, 45.0, 0.400, 12.5, 0.800, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=1, -5.000, -3.400, -3.380, 19500.0, 1, 2.0, 0.0, 0.400, 12.5, 0.800, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0.0, 0.0
point.3=1, -5.000, 3.400, -3.380, 19500.0, 2, 2.0, 0.0, 0.400, 12.5, 0.800, 0.0, 0.0, 3, 0.0, 0.0
//Floats
point.4=4, 7.800, -3.000, -2.890, 29500.0, 0, 0.6, 0.0, 0.100, 4.5, 1.000, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.5=4, 7.800, 3.000, -2.890, 29500.0, 0, 0.6, 0.0, 0.100, 4.5, 1.000, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.6=4, -4.800, -3.200, -2.880, 29500.0, 0, 0.6, 30.0, 0.100, 4.5, 1.000, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.7=4, -4.800, 3.200, -2.880, 29500.0, 0, 0.6, 30.0, 0.100, 4.5, 1.000, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
//Scrapes -- NOT NEEDED FOR VEHICLES ---------------
//point.4=2, 8.50, -2.8, 2.50 , 9800.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 5
//point.5=2, 8.50 2.8, 2.50, 9800.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 6
//point.6=2, -6.50, -2.8, 3.00, 9800.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 8
//point.7=2, -6.50, 2.8, 3.00, 9800.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 4
static_pitch=0.000000
static_cg_height= 3.450 //o=3.017
gear_system_type=0


[brakes]
toe_brakes_scale= 2.500 //o=1.00
parking_brake=1
differential_braking_scale= 1.200

[Flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar= 0.100
parasite_drag_scalar= 4.0
induced_drag_scalar= 3.0
elevator_effectiveness= -0.1
aileron_effectiveness= 1.0
rudder_effectiveness= 0.5
elevator_trim_effectiveness= 0.1
aileron_trim_effectiveness= 1.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness= 0.8
pitch_stability= 4.3
roll_stability= 2.3
yaw_stability= 2.3


[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type=0
Engine.0=-2.400000,0.000000,0.000000
fuel_flow_scalar=1.000000
min_throttle_limit=0.000000
//
[piston_engine] //This is 'Souped-up' version ('H2').03May03.cb
power_scalar=1.5 //o=1.0 //Piston power scalar
cylinder_displacement=110.0 //cb=90.3 //cb=126.0 //o=90.3 //Cubic inches per cylinder
compression_ratio=8.5 //o=10.1 //Compression ratio
number_of_cylinders=8 //o=6 //Number of cylinders
max_rated_rpm=2800.000 //cb=3400 //o=2400 //Max rated RPM
max_rated_hp=351 //o=230 //Max rated HP
fuel_metering_type=1 //0=Fuel Injected, 1=Gravity Carbureter, 2=Aerobatic Carbureter
cooling_type=0 //0=Cooling type Air, 1=Cooling type Liquid
normalized_starter_torque=0.100 //preAutoStart=0.300 //Starter torque factor
turbocharged=0 //Is it turbocharged? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
max_design_mp=0 //Max design manifold pressure, (inHg)
min_design_mp=0 //Min design manifold pressure, (inHg)
critical_altitude=0 //Altitude to which the turbocharger will provide max design manifold pressure (feet)
emergency_boost_type=0 //0=None, 1=Water Injection, 2=Methanol/Water injection, 3=War Emergency Power
emergency_boost_mp_offset=0 //Additional manifold pressure supplied by emergency boost
emergency_boost_gain_offset=0 //Multiplier on manifold pressure due to emergency boost
fuel_air_auto_mixture=1 //Automixture available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
auto_ignition=1 //o=0 //Auto-Ignition available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
max_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.0 //Scalar on maximum RPM mechanical efficiency
idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.0 //Scalar on idle RPM mechanical efficiency
max_rpm_friction_scalar=1.0 //Scalar on maximum RPM friction
idle_rpm_friction_scalar=1.0 //Scalar on idle RPM friction
//
[propeller]
thrust_scalar=1.3 //cb=1.50 //Propeller thrust scalar
propeller_type=0 //0=Constant Speed, 1=Fixed Pitch
propeller_diameter=6.8 //Propeller Diameter, (feet)
propeller_blades=3 //Number of propeller blades
propeller_moi=8.7 /Propeller moment of inertia
beta_max=31.8 //Maximum blade pitch angle for constant speed prop, (degrees)
beta_min=17.0 //Minimum blade pitch angle for constant speed prop, (degrees)
min_gov_rpm=1400 //Min gov'd RPM
prop_tc=0.1 //Prop time-constant
gear_reduction_ratio=1.0 //Propeller gear reduction ratio
fixed_pitch_beta=20 //Fixed pitch angle of fixed pitch prop, (degrees)
low_speed_theory_limit=80.000000 //(54 mph) //Speed at which low speed theory becomes blended in (feet/second)
prop_sync_available=0 //Prop synchronization available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_deice_available=0 //Prop de-icing available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_feathering_available=0 //Prop feathering available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_auto_feathering_available=0 //Prop auto-feathering available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
min_rpm_for_feather=0 //Minimum RPM for prop feathering
beta_feather=0 //Feathering pitch angle (degrees)
power_absorbed_cf=0 //Coefficient of friction for power absorbed by propeller
defeathering_accumulators_available=0 //Defeathering accumulators available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_reverse_available=0 //Prop reverse available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
minimum_on_ground_beta=0 //Miminum pitch angle on ground, (degrees)
minimum_reverse_beta=0 //Minimum pitch angle in reverse, (degrees)
//
[airplane_geometry]
wing_area=100.000000
wing_span=56.000000
wing_root_chord=4.916667
wing_dihedral=1.735840
wing_incidence=0.785522
wing_twist=-3.614502
oswald_efficiency_factor= 0.680 //o=0.899632
wing_winglets_flag=0
wing_sweep=0.000000
wing_pos_apex_lon=0.000000
wing_pos_apex_vert=0.000000
htail_area=39.000000
htail_span=11.666667
htail_pos_lon= -11.000 //o=-14.666667
htail_pos_vert=0.000000
htail_incidence=3.246460
htail_sweep=0.000000
vtail_area=18.000000
vtail_span=4.837355
vtail_sweep=0.000000
vtail_pos_lon= -11.250 //o=-12.583333
vtail_pos_vert=1.500000
elevator_area=16.610000
aileron_area=18.300000
rudder_area=0000
elevator_up_limit=28.000447
elevator_down_limit=20.998903
aileron_up_limit=19.996227
aileron_down_limit=15.000035
rudder_limit=35.995472
elevator_trim_limit=19.497754
spoiler_limit= 59.989 //for braking //o=0.000000
spoilerons_available=0
aileron_to_spoileron_gain=0.000000
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons=0.000000
min_flaps_for_spoilerons=0.000000
auto_spoiler_available=0
positive_g_limit_flaps_up=4.000000
positive_g_limit_flaps_down=2.000000
negative_g_limit_flaps_up=-1.500000
negative_g_limit_flaps_down=-1.500000
spoiler_extension_time=1.000
//

[SeanTK]

Roger,

This might help.

If you have FSUIPC (free or registered version), you can add the line PatchSIM1friction=Yes in the [General] section of the ini file.

Saves having to use the modded sim1.dll that improves ground friction.

Cheers

Paul

Seconded. This adjustment is highly recommended for use in the simulator, doesn't require extensive modification of individual addon files, and I believe will precisely solve your problem, or at least greatly reduce it's severity.

[napamule]

But, it won't improve how it TURNS, or handles BUMPS in the road, etc. The mods I posted improve the handling, the braking, the turning (differential braking), how the wheels compress and thus whether they go down the road bouncing (rough ride) or smooth, even on bumpy roads. FSUIPC mod doesn't add floats. FSUIPC may help. But that FSUIPC mod MIGHT work for heavy 747's and such, probably by damping the tendency of ac to yaw when on the ground. But maybe not not a light (5600 lb) vehicle. Will the FSUIPC mod hurt anything? Maybe not. But improve the ride and handling (on curves)? I doubt it. Only cnt pt adjustments will do that. Which is what this vehicles has (had?) problems with. Correct me if I am wrong.
Chuck B
Napamule
PS: I DO have FSUIPC and the line 'PatchSIM1friction=Yes' in the ini.

[Dev One]

Roger, Sorry about being flippant, I didn't realise that a road vehicle had to have a .cfg & obviously it then must have a .air file. Assuming this, have a look in block 1101 & you will find some values that affect turning - I think its to do whether one needs rudder to assist or resist turns, could also be ailerons..... sorry can't remember which ones exactly.
HTH
Keith

P.S. Have you tried moving the C of G fore/aft to see the effect change - just a thought?

[napamule]

Section 1101 of air file is flight dynamics. You can make adjustments to how much each element is effective, but since the ambulance won't be 'flying' in the air, there won't be much that can be adjusted there. In other words, if the only thing you do is hack the air file then you won't improve the handling. So, you STILL have to tweak the cnt pts because it's a vehicle. On airplanes the cnt pts are almost irrelevant or not so critical.
Chuck B
Napamule

[Roger]

Many thanks Paul, Sean, Keith and Chuck:ernaehrung004: Great and informed community we have here! I'll check out all these suggestions.

[alehead]

If you have the payware version of FSUIPC, you can use the LUA file and edit the ground friction values and increase the sidewall friction, which would in my mind massively reduce the in-turn drifting. I remember the first time I used the mod via LUA and the massive improvement in taxi turns in every aircraft...


May be worth a try?


Andrew Entwistle

[napamule]

Well I went and made a video to show the handling (I COULD claim I used FSUIPC but I didn't). It takes tweaking various aspects of cfg and air file to achieve POSITIVE results with the vehicles. What works for vehicles probably won't work for any flying machine. It's oranges and apples. If you still believe the FSUIPC tweak will achieve these result, then you don't know squat about FDE's. Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule
YouTube Link: http://youtu.be/ELAaTK8UfwI . I'm out.

[PRB]

Chuck, I don't think anyone here claimed that applying the tweaks via the FSUIPC would achieve precisely the same results that your more extensive tweaks would. They're putting out an alternative solution. More ideas is better, no? Why not let Roger decide which solution is best for him..?

[napamule]

I repeat. The FSUIPC is NOT 'an alternative solution' of any kind when it comes to vehicles and/or their 'handling'. For the Cessna or the 747 maybe yes, but not at all 'sufficient' when it comes to any/all vehicles. Roger can decide (with or without) my video or the new FDE's, if I am argueing or just stating facts. I know those that profess that the FSUIPC will 'help' are not aware of what is required and are simply 'trying to help' but in reality are meerly grasping at straws (what else can anyone call it). I am just pointing out what is required. So sue me.

The OP asked for ideas, or advice, as to how to 'improve wheel friction'. Were the Austin an 875,000 Lb vehicle, then there might be a need for wheel 'friction'. Otherwise he also did not know what the REAL problem was. Just saying.

And in most cases, in the forums, and even on YouTube (comments), when it comes to discussing 'vehicles' in the Sim we have that 'element' that want to 'shoot the messenger' as they believe that vehicles have no place in the sim. They subscribe to 'it's not real' to flight simulator. FLIGHT simulator (not AUTO simulator). Humph.
Chuck B
Napamule
PS: And what happens if you enter 'PatchSIM1friction=NO' ? It floats off the side of the runway on turns? What? Cheesh.