Microsoft Confirms Aces Closure

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

In a statement, Kelda Rericha of Edelman, Microsoft's public relations firm, said that the decision was made within Microsoft's Internal Entertainment Business "to align our people against our highest priorities."

Right.....


http://pc.ign.com/articles/947/947737p1.html

[PhilTaylor]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/947/947737p1.html

http://www.futuregpu.org/2009/01/end-of-era-aces-studio-and-flight-sim.html

[Marlin]

Wow, talk about devastating news. Ouch in every way possible.

So Phil, are you and crew going to get together and continue on with your own company?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[mike_cyul]

"Does this mean the end of the Flight Simulator franchise? According to Rericha, "We are committed to the Flight Simulator franchise which has proven to be a successful PC based game for the last 27 years."

From: http://pc.ign.com/articles/947/947737p1.html


Mike

[PhilTaylor]

Wow, talk about devastating news. Ouch in every way possible.

So Phil, are you and crew going to get together and continue on with your own company?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>


no, I am quite happy at Intel.

[Dangerousdave26]

They probably can not do that for Contractual Reasons.

MS still owns their FS and its code.

[jimjones]

Reircha also speaks of MS's commitment to the Flight Simulator Franchise. Ha!
How can you continue when you fire nearly the whole staff.
She mentions "flying games".
Ha again!
Does that mean a very dumb downed version in the future on X-Box?

[Marlin]

no, I am quite happy at Intel.

Well THAT is what counts and I'm happy that you are happy. Good and congrats :ernae:

[PhilTaylor]

"Does this mean the end of the Flight Simulator franchise? According to Rericha, "We are committed to the Flight Simulator franchise which has proven to be a successful PC based game for the last 27 years."

From: http://pc.ign.com/articles/947/947737p1.html


Mike

see my blog, I talk to the fact some vague future opportunity was mentioned but no details are available at this time.

[Lionheart]

http://www.futuregpu.org/2009/01/end-of-era-aces-studio-and-flight-sim.html

Dang... Department shutdown..


:faint:


I was hoping this was temporary until things improved...

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=239775 Jan10 in a post at Avsim i related the reasons i believed that FSXI would be a console game and that PC gaming was a part of history .

I was kind of suprised at the silence that followed, less so now.

[LCBORDEN]

For those of us that prefer to use the pc for gaming this is a real blow. My thoughts and good wishes go out to those people so abruptly let go. Hopefully that message from Microsofts HR was a condensed version, if not that is one Cold Hearted S.O.B. of an HR manager, who is in need of a long lay off to see how it feels. Man I need a beer....

Ol' Jarhead :friday:

[Dangerousdave26]

http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=239775 Jan10 in a post at Avsim i related the reasons i believed that FSXI would be a console game and that PC gaming was a part of history .

I was kind of suprised at the silence that followed, less so now.

By posting the link to AVSIM forums I think you broke it :icon_lol:

I get this from their forums...

and I think you are right.

[Kiwikat]

How can a console keep up with that much data? You think the loading times of FSX are bad... LOL There would be minimalized addons too. I just don't see it as being possible, not in the same form we've been enjoying. It would have to be less involved somewhere.

[kilo delta]

If anything, computer gaming is getting even more popular than ever. I don't think that consoles will oust the "gaming computer" for many years.....if ever.

[Lionheart]

Consoles do one thing.. Run games... Nothing running in the background. That is why they are ideal for gaming....

[Sascha66]

Consoles do one thing.. Run games... Nothing running in the background. That is why they are ideal for gaming....

Yes, but he controls are so much better on a PC.

"You should expect us to continue to invest in enabling great LIVE experiences on Windows, including flying games, but we have nothing specific to announce at this time."" Quote from Richera. Does this mean that FSXI will never come?

I'm off to find a cliff to jump from :wavey:

[CodyValkyrie]

Guys, it means nothing. That was a typical human resources announcement. Omit as much as possible, stay elusive and vague. Don't read too far into it. To be quite frank, I honestly doubt she even knows what the hell ACES did.

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

In the post at Avsim i related the findings from some market research , aside from a dismal showing in the 2008 sales period for "Gold" not getting into the top 20 pc games , it was really hard to miss the shelf space i saw devoted to PC games in the retail outlets was but the smallest fraction of that devoted to the three console formats.

Expert Systems used to be chipsets that did one job only and were good at it , console games are expert systems , they run games well and need much less programming to compensate for the multiple hardware setups , operating systems and all the "services" , the chip itself in a quad core costs a small fraction of the price of your computer , as well the graphics card is not all that pricy but those two elements are the balls and brains of a system , in a console the same parts are in millions of identical machines and can be as powerful as needed to run any game much cheaper than a pc and all the extra hardware , add to that no monitor to sell with a console and for far less than the cost of a computer capable of running FSX you got yourself a plug and play system .

As far as i was concerned the writing was on the wall , Bean counters count well , shelf space in stores was much reduced from the same period a year earlier and <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
deductive reasoning indicated that PC gaming was becoming part of history , its replacement was there before our eyes already , there is no reason that Saitek wont <o:p></o:p>
have control systems that plug into Xbox or whatever , i tried to find a top quality steering wheel for plugging into a pc , to replace the one i had purchased the year before that was not as easy , but boy was the selection for consoles plentiful ... the writing on the wall was the floor space , pc gaming is part of history .<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
That means i got to get up to speed on designing for Xbox , the MSDN has the toolkits .. my personal preferences are not paying the rent , games are and i need to do what people are buying , people are not buying FS products in droves , there is a further section in the Avsim post on that subject and explains why i started making all FS products available for FS9 and FSX again , there are far more copies of FS9 in circulation than FSX and its still for sale ...


One last point ... FSX did not just DIE , in fact i see that its now the responsibility of the 3PD's to keep adding to the "BASE PLATFORM" , we can do anything we like to the game , it’s our plaything and the future viability of our use of it as a SIMULATION PLATFORM is now assured , it’s no longer going to be reprogrammed into something else as was the case when FS9 became FSX , then SP1 SP2 Accell , it’s no longer a moving target , FSXI if it comes out will be a game title running on a game platform , what WE have now is a SIMULATOR , and a damm fine one at that , Phil , Paul and all the ACES that made it what it is did one fine job ironing out the bugs , MS can’t take it away from us .. it’s OURS .
<o:p></o:p>

[JT8D-9A]

I'm very disappointed about Microsoft.
Treating valued employees like that is just very poor.
I wish i would be able to like Flight Gear as much as i like FSX...

[gera]

I am sure some other "smaller" firm will probably come out with "better" Sim in the future......don´t just look at the bad side, there is an opportunity here!!!!!.......Phil and his crew are history that´s all. Am sure we´ll get a better Sim down the line......:jump:

[Lionheart]

I'm very disappointed about Microsoft.
Treating valued employees like that is just very poor.
I wish i would be able to like Flight Gear as much as i like FSX...



Yep.. Their email notification was a bit cold. Cant believe that.



Bill

[Major_Spittle]

Time for me to embrace X-Plane and throw money and support their way. FS to MS has been just a small hobby project, we need a company that will make it THEIR bussiness.

Why the hell is there no X-Plane forum here?

[heywooood]

One last point ... FSX did not just DIE , in fact i see that its now the responsibility of the 3PD's to keep adding to the "BASE PLATFORM" , we can do anything we like to the game , it’s our plaything and the future viability of our use of it as a SIMULATION PLATFORM is now assured , it’s no longer going to be reprogrammed into something else as was the case when FS9 became FSX , then SP1 SP2 Accell , it’s no longer a moving target , FSXI if it comes out will be a game title running on a game platform , what WE have now is a SIMULATOR , and a damm fine one at that , Phil , Paul and all the ACES that made it what it is did one fine job ironing out the bugs , MS can’t take it away from us .. it’s OURS . - Chuck Jodry

Yes - thats the only thing within this event that could have a positive meaning for us - and it is a very positive notion.

FSX can be opened up and expanded on by the 3PD's without reservation or concern about forward compatability and wasted effort or unrealised gains - Its here for the long haul and at its core is a very high quality program just waiting for the right people to exploit it :ernae:



<o:p></o:p>

[N2056]

FSX can be opened up and expanded on by the 3PD's without reservation or concern about forward compatability and wasted effort or unrealised gains - Its here for the long haul and at its core is a very high quality program just waiting for the right people to exploit it :ernae:<o:p></o:p>

I fully agree...in many ways life just got a lot easier. Time to get to work! :typing:

[Helldiver]

From what I gather, Acers Studio consisted of 1400 employees. Perhaps they can settle an agreement with Microsoft that they allowed to continue Flight Sim development as a independent agency. From what I can see Flight Simulator 11 is pretty far along. As far as ventures in software development is concerned, this is a good bet. They should not want for venture capitol.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Even though they cannot reach an agreement Theres nothing to say that they have enough reputation as Aces studio to produce their own software. Possibly with a tie in to Austin Meyers X-Plane small organization. I look at this as being an interruption and nothing but good will come of it. There are too many die-hard Flight Simmers that will allow this to go away. Microsoft has out lived it usefulness and is slowly, reluctantly, fading away. The weight of Vista around it's neck will cause it to die...<o:p></o:p>

[PhilTaylor]

From what I gather, Acers Studio consisted of 1400 employees. Perhaps they can settle an agreement with Microsoft that they allowed to continue Flight Sim development as a independent agency. From what I can see Flight Simulator 11 is pretty far along. As far as ventures in software development is concerned, this is a good bet. They should not want for venture capitol.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Even though they cannot reach an agreement Theres nothing to say that they have enough reputation as Aces studio to produce their own software. Possibly with a tie in to Austin Meyers X-Plane small organization. I look at this as being an interruption and nothing but good will come of it. There are too many die-hard Flight Simmers that will allow this to go away. Microsoft has out lived it usefulness and is slowly, reluctantly, fading away. The weight of Vista around it's neck will cause it to die...<o:p></o:p>



no.

Aces was 100-120.

1400 total at MS got RIFed yesterday. Aces was roughly 10% of the total.

until there is more data on the currently unknown but hinted at "future opportunity" within MS it is fruitless to speculate on the future of the franchise.

given there is a possibility of a "future opportunity"; it is highly unlikely MS would release the IP and the brand name to any outside entity.

we all will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

[SolarEagle]

From what I can see Flight Simulator 11 is pretty far along.


According to one of the 3rd party devs FS11 was only in planning stages with no pre-alpha code.

[crashaz]

"Regarding the future of Flight Simulator, all we’re announcing at this time is that we are committed to flying games."

flying games my a** :hand:

[RCAF_Gunner]

"Regarding the future of Flight Simulator, all we’re announcing at this time is that we are committed to flying games."

flying games my a** :hand:

Exactly. In addition to taking some serious software (i.e. FSX) and mangling it into a kiddies game, there are also issues to consider with the platform / hardware.

I have an XBox 360... don't know how many others here do but, from my experience, the hardware is terrible. I've replaced it twice under a paid for extended warranty. The first one lasted barely a year, the second one latest less then two weeks and we've had the third one for a few months but it is starting to go.

The "box killer" game on mine seems to be Call of Duty 4. I believe COD4 just heats up the graphics hardware to the point where the chips fail completely. The overheating is a known issue and MS came up with a supposed "fix". The factory mod to deal with the heat that came on the last one I got makes it so loud it sounds like a jet engine very shortly after starting up ~ even when my wife plays a very low intensity game (graphics wise) called Hexic. I have the HD-DVD add-on for it too but the fan noise is so bad I can't stand watching movies using it. We started getting the RROD (red ring of death) on the latest box shortly after trying COD4 again so we immediately stopped using the game. I'm not under warranty any more and not willing to pay again for another "re-up".

It doesn't take much searching on Google to find out many people are having the same issues regardless of the "fixes". It's not just the XBox 360 either. There are similar issues with the PS3. Don't even get me started about the new "Wii ripoff" interface for the XBox 360...

Anyway, once I learned about the experiences of the repeated flakey hardware first hand, then got frustrated by having to do without the console for 3+ weeks at a time because I couldn't fix it myself (like I can with a PC), I decided when it dies this time it won't be replaced. I won't spend any more money on games for the XBox 360 and I won't replace it with an alternate vendors console either.

On a similar train of thought, the only reason I run Windows at home is to support the MSFS series. This is something I think the MS "bean counters" need to think about a little. PC Games DO sell operating systems. That's a double revenue stream they wouldn't necessarily have otherwise and for some us if you kill one you're going to kill the other.

I did buy Vista Ultimate with the new hardware I built for FSX ~ sure I fought with it for nearly a year and then reloaded XP in the end but MS still sold an OS to me because I wanted to run new hardware to support their game (yes, it's more then a game to most of us but you know what I mean). I was going to buy Windows 7 / Vista R2 as soon as it was available. Not now.

If FSX stops working on my PC (can't be validated anymore or what have you) and if there is no FS XI for the PC platform in sight or it's released as a gaming console title I will have absolutely no reason to own a Windows platform in my house ~ it'll be "hello X-Plane" on my iMac.

My rant is not aimed at our friends at Aces Studios ~ far from it. I just see the MS execs killing what is probably their longest running title (next to Windows itself) as extremely narrow minded. Our access to PC based games DO have an influence on other decisions we make regarding our home computing needs. As consumers we DO have more choices then just Windows.

Rick :kilroy:

[glennc]

To me, the real issue is how long MS will continue to sell FSX, and FX9 if its still available. If they will still sell it, there will still be a market for the developers. Even if it does disappear off the shelves, those of us that are still addicted will continue to buy. Personally, I plan to buy a copy of FSX-Gold and just sit on it until I buy a new computer. I'm not planning to replace the box any time soon, but sooner or later, it will happen.

X-Plane - Yeah, I'll consider that.

Glenn

[fliger747]

"I'm sorry but we do not still support activation of any of the flight simulator products" Please press one to repeat this message in Urdu.....

Press two to repeat the menu.....

[N2056]

2 weeks ago I was in a store and found a copy of FS2000 on the shelf. I would not panic just yet ;)

[Prowler1111]

Guys!:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/Prowler1111/dontpanic.jpg


Prowler

[Francois]

We've started a Facebook Group yesterday in support of FS and more specifically in support of the axed developers, many of whom are our friends and fellow sim-enthusiasts.

JOIN NOW !! :welcome:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=59637588200 (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=59637588200)

[dominique]

One last point ... FSX did not just DIE , in fact i see that its now the responsibility of the 3PD's to keep adding to the "BASE PLATFORM" , we can do anything we like to the game , it’s our plaything and the future viability of our use of it as a SIMULATION PLATFORM is now assured , it’s no longer going to be reprogrammed into something else as was the case when FS9 became FSX , then SP1 SP2 Accell , it’s no longer a moving target ,
[/color]<o:p></o:p>

An intelligent remark.

Yes indeed, we have now a stable platform for the years to come that will grow more attracive with the evolution of hardware (hopefully ) and a rejuvenated addon industry.

The two stage FSX (FSX/SP1+SP2) made the life of the cottage industry miserable, to the point of decouraging several payware and freeware developpers who just quit. I find it ironic that some of the survivors are now petitioning MS :engel016:. The reality is that now, developpers can start up 18 months projects knowing that, at release time, FSX will still be here and not replaced by a non compatible FS11. On our side, we can help them live buying addons knowing that we will not have to throw them away in 18 months.

As for Aces sorry for them but whose fault is it ? The beancounters or rather the heads of the studio who killed the golden egg hen. By forsaking any real compatibilty (aircraft and scenery) in order to push the sales of FSX thru our wallet, without the savvy to see that the situation at FS9 end of life was entirely different than the situation of previous installements due to the massive creativity of this community, they gave a new life to the FS9 mature market, reducing the profit for the new sim and endangering, in the long run, future installments. They split the market in two, putting themselves out of half of it.

Playing with the flight simulator since 1981 and no ready to quit anytime soon, I am not particulrlay worried today.

Now lets dream a bit. What about Paul Allen buying back the franchise and hiring Bruce Artwick to drive someting anew :kilroy: ...

[foreigndevil]

Let's take CFS3 as an example: after MS decided not to continue the CFS series some talented people transformed it into OFF (Over Flanders Fields) & MAW (Mediterranean Air War) and both are a lot better than the original! There's still a lot of life in the (not so) old dog yet! Consider also that, if there will be no FS11, we can continue using our present gear instead of having to buy a top notch brand new very expensive rig every other year to find out that it still can't make us max out all those sliders in the new FS product!:amen:

[Major_Spittle]

F-U MicroSoft, you can shove your Monopoly you know where. Making billions and no competition and you whack 5K employees to try to bump a stock ticker 5 cents. Screw you I am selling my stock for your ****ty bussiness decisions.

If it isn't the big corporations buying the politicians off to screw us over, it's the companies doing it themselves.




I see your points completely..but please lets calm down some..This will get us all nowhere.....Thanks.....Harleyman......

Glad my stock is in Harley....LOL

[SkippyBing]

Making billions and no competition and you whack 5K employees to try to bump a stock ticker 5 cents. Screw you I am selling my stock for your ****ty bussiness decisions.

Err.. actually MS do have competition, especially in the mobile market which they've barely dented. PC sales are down which is where they get most of their revenue from and the long term future is certainly less golden than it has been for the boys from Redmond.

Ironically you'll get more for your stocks because of their decision....

[X_eidos2]

It's pure speculation on my part but I wouldn't be surprised to hear in the near future that someone still left at Microsoft would come to the realization that closing down ACES studio was not a good idea. To fix it, they'll outsource future development of the FS franchise to a studio in India or Hungary or Russia. :gossip:

[Major_Spittle]

Err.. actually MS do have competition, especially in the mobile market which they've barely dented. PC sales are down which is where they get most of their revenue from and the long term future is certainly less golden than it has been for the boys from Redmond.

Ironically you'll get more for your stocks because of their decision....

Mobile market, lol. I don't think people were laid of in the " Mobile market " division and yes they make a lot of money off of a popular operating system they sell but I can't remember the name of it off hand with all the competition in that market. :kiss:

[SkippyBing]

No people weren't laid off in the mobile market because that's where they're focusing their efforts. Meanwhile Windows is below 90% market share for the first time in years and falling, Internet Explorer is below 60% and the Xbox 360 is falling way behind the Wii in the console war. Basically MS are looking a lot less like the dominant force in any of their markets and have to do something to maintain the impression of a strong going concern, more here: http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Misses+Earnings+Cuts+5000+Jobs/article14034.htm
Interestingly none of the tech sites I read has picked up on the dropping of ACES and what it means for MS future direction, which may indicate we're more of a niche market than I'd thought.

[Francois]

Interestingly none of the tech sites I read has picked up on the dropping of ACES and what it means for MS future direction, which may indicate we're more of a niche market than I'd thought.

Good morning, I see you woke up :wavey:

But you're right, FS is a total niche market compared to other game companies and game genres, and a total niche market internally at MS. So is ESP.... many MS 'salesmen' didn't know anything about it and we couldn't buy licenses in specific countries..... go figure.

[jfri]

Yes, but he controls are so much better on a PC.

"You should expect us to continue to invest in enabling great LIVE experiences on Windows, including flying games, but we have nothing specific to announce at this time."" Quote from Richera. Does this mean that FSXI will never come?

I'm off to find a cliff to jump from :wavey:

Of course this must mean FS11 is not coming, at least not for a very long time. This reminds me of the first train simulator where first TS 2 was announced and than cancelled. TS2 almost become reality a very long time after first being cancalled. If all people who was working on and supposed to develope FS11 disappears that worl won't be done. If later some flying game title is released that is going to be something different than FS11 was supposed to be.

[MM]

One thing that strikes me about this is that Microsoft's decision-makers eliminated the entire ACES enterprise. The HQ did not postpone or drop Train Simulator...which had stretched beyond deadline. They did not cut the staff in half, put the code development on a slow boil, and push out the Flight Simulator dates into the indefinite future. They did not bore down to the ESP core and let the games follow along. They completely, and rather dramatically, eradicated the ACES program.
<o:p> </o:p>
Given the size of ACES and the size of Microsoft—we are talking three orders of magnitude here—Microsoft HQ's decision will not affect Microsoft's bottom line measurably. This move, even if it were noticed, will not reassure investors.
<o:p> </o:p>

[jeansy]

i have to agree and disagree with many of the comments

1, FS isnt dead, if anything its going to get stronger over the next yrs we will see the numbers increase as people will upgrade hardware and come over from fs9, which means many of the talented developers who still work in fs9 when they upgrade in the near future we all will be on the same level there wont be the case of fs11 vs fs10 like there is today with fsx vs fs9 even after 2.5yrs later. so as a user, the quality and number of addons will be our benefit !

2, i cant see MS cutting away FS completely, it is a trademark name, i can only guess that it will be mothballed for a later date when they have sorted out their OS direction. honestly there is too much money just in the name of it, not to mention the code that goes with it, even if they sell it it wont make as much money as holding on to it for another 30yrs. selling it now will only make a quick buck.

3, i honestly feel sorry for the people that were screwed over by management for something they had no part in, maybe they should clean out the OS department, they are the ones who gave out the new code for vista and promised the world of it and made everyone change to suite and to turn around and produce a flop which so called lost all that money, if vista was a pet it would been put down at birth. shame on you guys you spent all that money and even today you still talk your product up as it costs the jobs of others, piss poor!

sorry guys thats my 2cents, its late in the morning and my dictionary isnt working and im trying to give up smoking :argue:

but then again sometimes i get my days wrong, who knows what is the future for this hobby, one thing is for sure MS have turn their backs on its employees and supporters !!!