Malaysia Airlines 777 down in Ukraine

[SabreAce]

295 on board...reports are suggesting it was shot down.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

http://news.yahoo.com/malaysian-airliner-crashes-east-ukraine-reports-153345081.html

Pictures are starting to come out claiming to be debris from the crash. The colors certainly look right for Malaysia Airlines.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bswi_mLCYAAq_xd.jpg

Picture source: https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/489804938470375425/photo/1

Some of the reports I'm reading are saying both sides in the dispute in that area are blaming each other for the aircraft going down. Given how tense things got in the aftermath of the Korean Air 007 shootdown, one can only imagine what this may lead to, particularly with what's going on in Ukraine.

RIP to the victims of this terrible tragedy.

[stuartcox]

Apparently there is ultra-violet satellite imagery available for the region, showing if any missiles have been fired, and from where...

[huub vink]

Its a daily flight between Amsterdam (the Netherlands) and Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) my daughter and son-in-law were on this flight last Monday. As it is one of the cheapest flights from the Netherlands when you want to travel to Indonesia, Australia and New Zealand I expect there were a lot of Dutch people on this flight.

In time there will be an official version, but I have serious doubts whether we will ever hear the complete truth.

My thoughts are with those who had friends or relatives on this flight.

Huub

[yeppers]

Truly a terrible event. Prayers for the victims and their families.

[Dumonceau]

It gets worse: a separatist leader boasted on some russian "facetwit" that they shot down an An-26 at exactly the same time the plane was shot. He later said that was a mistake.

And now, the separatists are already looting the airplane. Black boxes included.

I wonder if there were AWACS airborne in the vincinity...

Dumonceau

[huub vink]

Obviously the mud slinging has already begun.

I have heard the news about this tweet as well, but I also heard that the twitter account, didn't belong to the person who's name was attached to it. As far as I know there is no proof the aircraft was really shot by a ground to air missile. Options like an intercept by a fighter or even an incident inside the plane are still not looked at.
I just saw a message in a blog that somebody suspected the Israeli as it was a perfect action to distract the attention of the ground attack the started in the Gaza strip.

I'm not in a position to judge whether somebody tells the thruth or not and I don't expect anyone at this forum is. Therefore appreciate it when people posting in this thread could stick to the fact and avoid being led by their imagination.

Thanks,
Huub

[StormILM]

It appears that it may have been an SA-17 BUK that brought down the 777. On top of it all, the crash site is reported to be inundated by rebels who are reportedly sanitizing the site.

[ce_zeta]

Another strange disaster with a Malasian 777.

Rest in peace all victims of this tragedy.

[huub vink]

I wonder who can be so sure at this moment that it is was a missile from this particular type and I wonder which reporter is present at the crash site in an area which is hardly accessible (definitely for Western journalists) in the middle of the Ukrainian night.....

Reasons for me to be a bit reserved.

Huub

[StormILM]

From the available photos, the debris field indicates the aircraft had at least partially broken up before hitting the ground and there's solid evidence that the event that brought down the plane happened at 33,000ft and it was sudden. The fact that other aircraft have been shot down recently by that same local SA-17 batteries and the rebels openly bragging about it leaves plenty of room for it being a prime suspect other than speculation. I can say this, there are plenty of surveillance technologies in the region which can detect a launch of a Surface to Air Missile or Ballistic Missile. So if this was the case, the evidence will be forthcoming.

[Dutcheeseblend]

Better we think of them who lost their loved ones in this tragedy and dedicate them in our prayers.

[huub vink]

Better we think of them who lost their loved ones in this tragedy and dedicate them in our prayers.

I fully agree. There were 154 Dutch passengers on board.

Huub

[Blackbird686]

Fox News is now reporting that the Malaysian airliner was shot down by a Russian SAM. Now... I'm not holding this to be the real truth, as stated above... we may NEVER learn that. But if this is true, then we still don't know who did it. It was also reported that there was a Russian An-26 in the same vicinity. Could the Ukrainians have used the SA-17 with the intent to bring down the Russian An-26, and hit the Malaysian Boeing 777 by mistake? Or was it some terrorist who pulled off this stunt and brought down the Malaysian jet... on the anniversary of the Pan-Am 747 tragedy over Lockerbie, Scotland?

Still... 295 innocent souls never knew what hit them, what a terrible, tragic waste. They all need our thoughts and prayers now.

BB686:US-flag:

[StormILM]

Video is now pouring in of the actual impact of the 777. Two things I noticed were that there was a thin vertical trail of smoke above the impact area but more importantly, rebel forces where cued up filming the incident well before impact which is indicative they knew it was going to happen. I'm certain more such evidence will surface soon.

The loss of life is horrendous(especially back to back with the previous 777 loss) and a sad day for many. If indeed this ends confirmed as suspected, there should be hell to pay over it.

[Dutcheeseblend]

Agree to StormILM

[ce_zeta]

Video is now pouring in of the actual impact of the 777. Two things I noticed were that there was a thin vertical trail of smoke above the impact area but more importantly, rebel forces where cued up filming the incident well before impact which is indicative they knew it was going to happen. I'm certain more such evidence will surface soon.

The loss of life is horrendous(especially back to back with the previous 777 loss) and a sad day for many. If indeed this ends confirmed as suspected, there should be hell to pay over it.
Sadly to write the following lines, I think that is neccesary. 295 deaths need more respect.
I think that it's not time for speculations, "evidences" (affirmations only based in non-inertial opinions aren't evidences) and other info not supported by facts, proofs and evidences.

It's time for pray and find evidences, proofs and facts in order to find the criminals who shot down the 777. For propaganda, read the newspaper (Pravda, Times....)

[StormILM]

A part of the aircraft fuselage found miles from the impact. The damage is clearly from explosive decompression/catastrophic structural failure while airborne.
10252

[wombat666]

"Sadly to write the following lines, I think that is neccesary. 295 deaths need more respect.
I think that it's not time for speculations, "evidences" (affirmations only based in non-inertial opinions aren't evidences) and other info not supported by facts, proofs and evidences."

Could not agree more.
The victims and their families come first.

[StormILM]

Sadly to write the following lines, I think that is neccesary. 295 deaths need more respect.
I think that it's not time for speculations, "evidences" (affirmations only based in non-inertial opinions aren't evidences) and other info not supported by facts, proofs and evidences.

It's time for pray and find evidences, proofs and facts in order to find the criminals who shot down the 777. For propaganda, read the newspaper (Pravda, Times....)

Of course which was part of my previous points which the loss of life and the surviving families are of the utmost importance as is the investigation which in the early golden hours are crucial to helping determine what or who is responsible. Immediately, a new International NOTAM for the airspace surrounding the crash site(which has been officially called a shootdown by multiple authorities) has been activated until further notice in hopes of avoiding more loss of life.

That being noted, I have read the transcripts of and heard the cell phone intercept audio of the forces behind the shootdown admitting they mistakenly identified the 777 on radar for a Western Spy Aircraft(one would assume an RC-135W) and fired on it bringing it down. The intercepted conversation was between field command and high command officers of the Cossack Separatist group.

Here's a copy of the NOTAM:

NOTAM - POTENTIALLY HAZARDOUS SITUATION UKRAINE AIRSPACE, PARTICULARLY OVER CRIMEA, THE BLACK SEA, AND THE SEA OF AZOV. DUE TO THE POTENTIAL FOR CONFLICTING AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL (ATC) INSTRUCTIONS FROM UKRAINIAN AND RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES AND FOR THE RELATED POTENTIAL MISIDENTIFICATION OF CIVIL AIRCRAFT, AIRCRAFT OPERATORS ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID, UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, THE AIRSPACE OVER CRIMEA, THE BLACK SEA, AND THE SEA OF AZOV, WITHIN THE FOLLOWING LATERAL LIMITS: 454500N 0345800E-460900N 0360000E-460000N 0370000E-452700N 0364100E452242N 0364100E-451824N 0363524E-451442N 0363542E-451218N 0363200E450418N 0363418E-445600N 0363700E-443100N 0364000E-424400N 0361600E424700N 0340000E-424800N 0304500E-434100N 0303200E-441500N 0302400E444600N 0300900E-455400N 0322500E-454900N 0324700E-455400N 0330600E455600N 0332700E-455900N 0332900E-THEN ALONG THE CRIMEA BORDER TO 454500N 0345800E. UNILATERAL ACTION TO ESTABLISH A NEW SIMFEROPOL (URFV) FIR THAT INCLUDES BOTH UKRAINIAN SOVEREIGN AIRSPACE OVER THE CRIMEAN PENINSULA AND INTERNATIONAL HIGH SEAS AIRSPACE MANAGED BY UKRAINE CONTRADICTS INTERNATIONAL LAW AND ICAO ANNEX 11 STANDARDS. UKRAINE NOTAM A0528/14, PUBLISHED 28 MAR 20:14 2014, REJECTS NOTAM A0907/14 PUBLISHED BY THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION. UKRAINE CONTINUES TO PROVIDE AIR TRAFFIC SERVICES (ATS) IN THE AIRSPACE DESCRIBED IN THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE AND RUSSIA IS ALSO PROVIDING ATS IN THAT AIRSPACE. FURTHERMORE, UKRAINE NOTAM A0520/14, PUBLISHED 28 MAR 16:59 2014, CREATES A PROHIBITED AREA OVER THE CRIMEAN PENINSULA FOR OPERATIONS BELOW FL290, AND UKRAINE NOTAMS A0524/14 AND A0569/14 CLOSE VARIOUS ATS ROUTE SEGMENTS. RUSSIAN FEDERATION NOTAM A0912/14 REJECTS AND DIRECTLY CONFLICTS WITH UKRAINE NOTAMS A0520/14 AND A0524/14. CONSEQUENTLY, THE POTENTIAL EXISTS FOR CIVIL AIRCRAFT TO RECEIVE CONFUSING AND CONFLICTING ATC INSTRUCTIONS WHILE OPERATING IN THE DISPUTED AIRSPACE. OPERATIONS ARE NORMAL IN ALL OTHER UKRAINE FIRS. HOWEVER, UK OPERATORS FLYING INTO, OUT OF, OR WITHIN LVOV (UKLV), KYIV (UKBV), DNEPTROPETROVSK (UKDV), AND ODESSA (UKOV) FIRS, AS WELL AS AIRSPACE IN THE SIMFEROPOL (UKFV) FIR THAT IS OUTSIDE THE LATERAL LIMITS OF THE AIRSPACE OVER CRIMEA, THE BLACK SEA, AND THE SEA OF AZOV DESCRIBED IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THIS NOTAM, SHOULD REVIEW CURRENT SECURITY/THREAT INFORMATION AND NOTAMS THE CONTENT OF THIS NOTAM SAFETY WILL BE RE-EVALUATED BY 01 AUG 2014.

[Dumonceau]

Surely with all the Nato activity in the neighbouring countries, there must have been an AWACS or SIGINT plane airbourne? Shouldn't NATO be analyzing and revealing that info?

The sadest thing (except for the 298 deaths of course) is that none of the fighting sides are to be trusted, so any "information" coming from them is suspect to start with.

Also, the possible escalation of this conflict into a larger one is scary.

But our first thoughts and prayers should be with the 298 deceased. Holland took a particularly large loss here... So my most positive thoughts go out to the victims and the families...

Dumonceau

[Dumonceau]

Interesting info:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RMgIpC-bCfQ

Dumonceau

[ViperPilot2]

Surely with all the Nato activity in the neighbouring countries, there must have been an AWACS or SIGINT plane airbourne? Shouldn't NATO be analyzing and revealing that info?

The saddest thing (except for the 298 deaths of course) is that none of the fighting sides are to be trusted, so any "information" coming from them is suspect to start with.

Also, the possible escalation of this conflict into a larger one is scary.

But our first thoughts and prayers should be with the 298 deceased. Holland took a particularly large loss here... So my most positive thoughts go out to the victims and the families...

Dumonceau

The sides involved are too buried in the conflict to act rationally. Allowing International SAR and Crash Investigation teams into the area, but not authorizing a Cease Fire in the area itself, is a prime example.

I agree with Dumoncenau... unless either side takes drastic action to end the conflict due to this tragedy, all the World will see is increased finger pointing between the parties involved, and an escalation of hostilities
in the region.

[Maarten -]

To put things on a smaller yet just as heartbreaking scale: 192 or 193 out of the 298 people on board MH17 had the Dutch nationality. My best friend for 47 years is totally devestated as, till the moment of the downing of the airplane, he was a teacher of two of them (boys 15 and 16 years of age). They perished together with their parents. Of course I'm shattered too.
That's all I have to say.
My thoughts go out to all victims, their families and their loved ones.

Maarten

[SPman]

The whole thing is tragic, Maarten. Here in Perth, one of our motorcycling mates lost his partner on the plane - he's totally devastated as well. (35 Australians on board)
I'm afraid amongst the meddling political maschinations of large powers, we are all grist to the mill in their pathetic games - always have been and, it seems, always will be.
It needs to stop!

[n4gix]

To put things on a smaller yet just as heartbreaking scale: 192 or 193 out of the 298 people on board MH17 had the Dutch nationality. My best friend for 47 years is totally devestated as, till the moment of the downing of the airplane, he was a teacher of two of them (boys 15 and 16 years of age). They perished together with their parents. Of course I'm shattered too.
That's all I have to say.
My thoughts go out to all victims, their families and their loved ones.

Maarten

Maarten, I have a young Dutch friend who sent this link to an article mentioning one of the two students:

http://www.ksg-apeldoorn.nl/nieuws/303