The Day the FlightSim Died? [Archive]

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N2056

January 22nd, 2009, 15:28

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21981

luckydog

January 22nd, 2009, 15:36

:eek::faint:

Wulf190

January 22nd, 2009, 15:39

I hope its not so, but if there is one thing we as a community has always had to deal with is the fact that we (the flight simulator community) are a niche community.

Flight simulators don't appeal to the general masses. FPS, and strategy games get more of a mass appeal then flight simulators do.

Boomer

January 22nd, 2009, 15:40

Oh boy..... :faint:

Willy

January 22nd, 2009, 15:50

If the reports are true and Microsoft is giving Aces and FS the axe, I don't see it as being the end of Flight Simulator. Just the end for newer releases.

Right now the best thing to do is to sit back and see what comes out in the near future. We survived the "death" of CFS and it's still going strong here.

Wulf190

January 22nd, 2009, 15:57

Right now the best thing to do is to sit back and see what comes out in the near future. We survived the "death" of CFS and it's still going strong here.

Ain't that the truth. :woot:

Wiens

January 22nd, 2009, 16:00

The ACES team will most likely be "rehired" when the economy looks like it is picking up.

Kevin

stiz

January 22nd, 2009, 16:01

if i rember rightly though, the team that built it didnt :kilroy:

I really hope they didnt axe everybody at ACES, would truly be a shame :frown:

Willy

January 22nd, 2009, 16:05

if i rember rightly though, the team that built it didnt

Best as I remember very few if any of the CFS team stayed on with MS after CFS 4 was cancelled

Lionheart

January 22nd, 2009, 16:53

If I were Austyn at X-Plane, I would be scrambling to hire them on. Put them on the team and get them working on XP10...

Bill

fliger747

January 22nd, 2009, 17:04

Just a guess that the Legal Beagles at MS weren't axed. The stability might be good for some long term developments, however it is hard to say what the future holds for the folks that try to make a living off of developing addons.

I am sure the "campus" work environment was quite stimulating, but perhaps was not to last in an ever increasingly competetive world, certainly not bearing (up to this point) much resemblence to what the rest of us experience in the workplace.

Will the "call centers" "This is floyd (in Dehli)" continue to support the often necessary re-installations?

T.

GT182

January 22nd, 2009, 17:11

gary20

January 22nd, 2009, 17:43

The title was "the day the flight sim died?"

Written as a question.
Well I point to the longevity of CFS2, the etrnal Combat flight Sim, still going strong after how many years?

FSX was really built for the next generation of computers and in terms of FPS was a strain on most modern computers so as computer technology improves in terms of performance, FSX will perform better and I think this will ensure the longevity of the Sim just as long as CFS2 has.

If MS abandons future Flight Simulator development, perhaps they should release some more of it's secrets so the simming community can design ever better addons for it ..... wouldnt hold my breath though.
Flight simulator will certainly be on my computer for the forseeable future ..............

I dont think it's the day flight simming died - far from it.

Gary

Willy

January 22nd, 2009, 17:53

CFS 2 was released in late 2000. So it's been around for 8 years. We've still got a CFS 1 community here and it's been out for 10.

I firmly believe that the FS community will survive much as the CFS community has. And Sim Outhouse will be here to continue providing support for FS just like we have been for CFS.

N2056

January 22nd, 2009, 18:03

The title was "the day the flight sim died?"

My title was meant to refer to the product line itself ;)

azflyboy

January 22nd, 2009, 18:33

If this does end up putting development of FS11 on hold, it's not all bad.

FSX is just getting to the point where it's been out long enough that a decent number of people can run it well, and as PC hardware gets faster and cheaper, that number is going to gradually increase.

Also, it seems like developers have finally figured out how to take advantage of what FSX is capable of, and I think we're just starting to see the beginnings of addons (Accusim and the Aerosoft F-16 HUD) that do really amazing things with FSX no one has seen before.

Having a hiatus between FSX and FS11 may end up being a good thing, since we'll probably see people doing things with FSX that no one would have thought possible when it first come out.

Plus, if there is a wait, CaptainSim might actually release some of the FSX addons and conversions they've been promising, although I shudder at what the prices might be...

FelixFFDS

January 22nd, 2009, 18:41

Lionheart

January 22nd, 2009, 20:18

No mention of "cutting" ESP?
ACES may have been cut, but I would be willing to bet that Microsoft, having launched ESP to a government.commercial base, is continuing development on the core platform and ESP, with the "entertainment" releases (MSTS2 and FSx) to follow (delayed) when things pick up.

I hope.

Felix,

I might venture to say you are right. If ESP is seperate from Aces...

They will have 4 people in office, which should be enough to run/manage ESP.

Bill

grunau_baby

January 22nd, 2009, 22:37

This will mean we have o wait longer for any new FS-version! I guess they only kept the core-crew to (hopefully) emerge again when the market is more stable again.

And then I fully second azflyboy´s thoughts on the chances we now have to catch up on FSX technology and given more time to developers for creating addons. Maybe the same breakthrough we had for fs9 in the end! And then again - hopefully!

Alex

deathfromafar

January 22nd, 2009, 23:03

I think everything will work out in due time. If you want MS to hear how you feel, make it so. The more voices they here the more likely they are to rethink things. Afterall it is public demand that drives the production of things. Also just like FS9, FSX will be able to mature more with addons and maybe even more versions/updates before a new sim does come about. For the time being, we have two excellent and fairly current sims, a bunch of great developers and a community of fine people using MSFS who here like so many other places love to share a lot in our hobby.

wombat666

January 22nd, 2009, 23:48

Just another sign of the times.
But why should we worry that much?
As already mentioned, CFS2 is going strong thank's to the efforts of talented enthusiasts, CFS3 in the form of OFF is finally approaching its potential, FS9 is going from strength to strength, and despite the best efforts of MS it looks as if I may one day find FSX worthy of my attention. (NB:'One Day').
:173go1:
This year we should expect more of the same ......... we are in the midst of a Global Recession.

RickN

January 23rd, 2009, 00:43

Guys, if MS does stop making flightsims there is always Flight Gear, and if the talent here was working on a true open source sim, who can say what it is capable of?

txnetcop

January 23rd, 2009, 02:14

Heck X-Plane is no slouch and this could be an opportunity to get people in place to help it get where it needs to be-still lots of issues but a very good sim, even if they don't see their faults over there.
Ted

hewman100

January 23rd, 2009, 02:26

Well if they don't want to do it anymore, would they it turn over someone else?

Several very knowledgeable people over in our forum have said in the past that with full access to things a great deal of further potential can be got out of CFS2 relatively easily.

Snuffy

January 23rd, 2009, 03:17

I hope they, or someone can keep these guys together and they give the community what they really want ... a new combat flight sim!

I'd love to see one that would encompass the whole earth as MSFX series does, however have it so that the player can pick his/her era to fly in!

The player can then, relive history, or make history.

stiz

January 23rd, 2009, 03:31

Well if they don't want to do it anymore, would they it turn over someone else?

i'll reply when i get back from hell, Mr.Devil wants me to shovel the snow from his drive ....

:engel016:

krazycolin

January 23rd, 2009, 04:10

michael davies

January 23rd, 2009, 05:14

Actually, for us devs, it might not be that bad at all. What I mean is, now that the only viable alternative is X-plane, i think that, in the end, FSX will become the standard... as peoples machines become more and more powerful....

Besides, as a dev, all it really means is that, seeing as MS won't be making planes, we will have to.

Just my thoughts on this...

Have to agree here, having posted at length on why in the Fsx forum, I'll keep it short here.

The loss of a new sim on the horizon should allow developers to take stock of there current posistion, take more time to develope things in much greater depth, without looking over their shoulders all the time waiting for the 'new' sim to be announced.

Sure as eggs are eggs, once that announcment is made developers back off current projects and wait for the new sim, instead of ploughing on and releasing with perhaps a minimal return before the new sim arrived.

Best

Michael

Drake

January 23rd, 2009, 09:38

Not smart. With Windows 7 and DirectX 11 on the horizon you think they'de want an inhouse project to really show them off.

Odie

January 23rd, 2009, 10:13

Well, I hate to hear that anyone has lost their job.....very sad news indeed ! My best wishes go out to the Aces folks, they did good work that I've enjoyed for many, many hours on all levels!

We may not see another new version of FS for awhile, but for my part, I'm still finding things to do in FS9. I'm only just now getting a PC that will run FSX to my satisfaction so more adventure awaits in discovering FSX.

Our FS user/developer community is one of the most inventive, innovative, and downright clever group of people it has been my pleasure to encounter amongst the various hobbies that I participate in, and I have no doubt, they will continue to give us content for both FS9 & FSX that will bridge the gap between versions and/or keep the current releases chugging along !

Microsoft may have given us the base product, but it's our fellow simmers/developers that have contributed mightily to bring it to life.

Again, thank you to the Aces team for their work and best wishes that they land soon on their feet!

Lionheart

January 23rd, 2009, 10:22

Again, thank you to the Aces team for their work and best wishes that they land soon on their feet!

Odie

Amen. :amen:

Some amazing work they have done. I still cant believe I have ground traffic now! Incredible... :d

Bill

Corsair 14F

January 23rd, 2009, 10:29

I might just be forced eventually to purchase FSX... after all.

Lionheart

January 23rd, 2009, 11:06

Here is an idea for Aces........

(This is two concepts, bare with me here).

IDEA ONE:
* Come out with a modernised FS9.
* Use the FS9 game engine, improve the terrain resolution (I would think the terrain originals are still existent). Use the same tiles though and increase the resolution setting.
* Upgrade the Autogen, houses and things only, trees, etc. Leave the city buildings alone.
* Expand the limitations of textures to 2048 or 4096 or unlimited.
* Add 3 to 5 more planes, jobbing them out. Obtain 2 new General Aiviation planes, a biz jet, and a tube liner, and maybe one classic GA or close to it. A Diamond Katanna, Cirrus, etc are good prospectives. Bring the ERJ (for FSX) into FS9 (convert to FS9 materials, etc).

Voila.. A new Sim, can run on XP equipment and run at high frames, call it FS9 Platinum Edition or something similar. Call it the ultimate upgrade for FS9.

The cool thing is that it has very very little work put into it.

Also, you could make it run on OpenGL, and create a sister pack that can run on Apple/Mac. Also, open negotiations for devs to be able to lease the game engine, for groups such as WWI sims, etc. Start using FS9 as a base package (below FSX) for smaller new Dev groups wishing to do sims. Perhaps the gaming industry could be much bigger then ESP, working with gaming groups with the two sim engines at hand... :d

IDEA TWO:
* Take FSX and make a new one called FSX Terrain or FSX World.
* Job out an excellent group that do terrain mesh, terrain mapping, and tile making and create a AWESOME terrain of the world for FSX.
* Add animals to the scenery (existing) to work automatically (scenery complexity slider) and have them show up in key locations without having to do Missions (over and over) to see them.

With FSX Terrain, you would now have a complete Sim, fully finished, that would really capture the eye. X-Plane did this and did very well, though its a hefty 60 Gigs. I think FSX could have far less room required and end up with an eye-dazzling, awesome sim.... And, it would be based on the FSX platform, so no worries about a new platform for devs and sales are continued to be stimulated. This could be purchased as a stand alone as well, like a secondary 'optional' FSX so that people wouldnt have to purchase both versions, (FSX and FSX Terrain).

There is so much that could be done......... and with existing platforms..

Bill

Kiwikat

January 23rd, 2009, 11:13

IDEA ONE:
* Come out with a modernised FS9.
* Use the FS9 game engine, improve the terrain resolution (I would think the terrain originals are still existent). Use the same tiles though and increase the resolution setting.
* Upgrade the Autogen, houses and things only, trees, etc. Leave the city buildings alone.
* Expand the limitations of textures to 2048 or 4096 or unlimited.
* Add 3 to 5 more planes, jobbing them out. Obtain 2 new General Aiviation planes, a biz jet, and a tube liner, and maybe one classic GA or close to it. A Diamond Katanna, Cirrus, etc are good prospectives. Bring the ERJ (for FSX) into FS9 (convert to FS9 materials, etc).

So like FSX then?

IDEA THREE: Start a brand new flight simulator from the bottom up. Enjoy FSX and or FS9 in the meantime.

OBIO

January 23rd, 2009, 14:31

Just found this while logging in to Yahoo to check my e-mail:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/116923

Vista to blame for Microsoft's earning drop and lay offs?

OBIO

Lionheart

January 23rd, 2009, 15:33

Just found this while logging in to Yahoo to check my e-mail:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/116923

Vista to blame for Microsoft's earning drop and lay offs?

OBIO

The CEO says its a 'wild success'... lol..

I like Wozza's signature.

Bill

Buddha13

January 24th, 2009, 07:29

Hi all,
Here's another idea.Convert the FS9 world to be used as a new CFS.Call it CFS2 Upgrade or something.it would be as moddable as CFS2 is now but look and fly much better.
Pkus it would already have the advantage of already being world wide theater area.

Buddha13

wombat666

January 24th, 2009, 09:18

i'll reply when i get back from hell, Mr.Devil wants me to shovel the snow from his drive ....:engel016:
Too bloody true stitz ......... :faint:

Francois

January 24th, 2009, 09:35

No mention of "cutting" ESP?
ACES may have been cut, but I would be willing to bet that Microsoft, having launched ESP to a government.commercial base, is continuing development on the core platform and ESP, with the "entertainment" releases (MSTS2 and FSx) to follow (delayed) when things pick up.

I hope.

Fogeddaboudit.

ESP is nothing but an empty idea without developers. I think we'll soon learn that it has gone belly-up too.. especially since I think that (the failure of) ESP was the main reason FS was axed after all these years.

I'll be watching the 'news' closely in the coming weeks to see this confirmed :whistle:

GT182

January 24th, 2009, 10:05

Ballmer says, "Vista is nothing short of a wild success, an operating system sold to millions of adoring fans world wide".

Horse hockey! When did he become a comedian? I bet 2/3s of those that bought it wish they hadn't. Watch now and see how soon the ones working on Windows 7 will get the axe. If 7 does get finshed and out on the market, how will the bad taste from Vista settle with buyers of Windows 7 and affect sales? Not very well IMO.

Thoe6969

January 24th, 2009, 10:16

Just found this while logging in to Yahoo to check my e-mail:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/116923

Vista to blame for Microsoft's earning drop and lay offs?

OBIO I could have told them that,vista is why computer sales are down,nobody wants to buy a computer with vista on it,it's the biggest peice of crap they ever made.

n4gix

January 24th, 2009, 10:19

ESP is nothing but an empty idea without developers. I think we'll soon learn that it has gone belly-up too.. especially since I think that (the failure of) ESP was the main reason FS was axed after all these years.

Really? Francois, this is one time I'm going to have to disagree. Having been in on the development/deployment of ESP since it's inception, I have a completely different impression... :wave:

Francois

January 24th, 2009, 10:42

Really? Francois, this is one time I'm going to have to disagree. Having been in on the development/deployment of ESP since it's inception, I have a completely different impression... :wave:

Impressions may deceive.... ;-) My information is that ESP was not making the amounts of money for MS that it was promised to do, even though it opened new venues for 3rd party developers. But I'm sure we'll hear what really happened one of these days....

Gdavis101

January 25th, 2009, 10:15

Does anyone know the fate of Train Simulator 2?

Francois

January 25th, 2009, 11:36

Yup, same as FS11.

Lionheart

January 25th, 2009, 12:49

So....

Who is actually running MS?

I think they need Bill Gates back.. Since he has retired, things have really become a bit messed up....

Willy

January 25th, 2009, 12:54

Bill, I always thought they were a bit messed up to begin with :d.