Great picture--do we have a Breguet 19 A2 for CFS2?

[jinx]

I found the attached pictures.
If we have the plane, I would love to do the repaint with this face on the side.
The second is a Breguet XIV B2 of escadrille BR 127. I think we have that for CFS2 on some site.

Nick

[gaucho_59]

I found the attached picture.
If we have the plane, I would love to do the repaint with this face on the side.

Nick

I could do a repaint if you get the plane and know the colors...
G.

[gaucho_59]

I could do a repaint if you get the plane and know the colors...
G.

I am going to look in simviation and other sites to see if there is a model made....

[Captain Kurt]

Breguet XIX (FARE)
http://simviation.com/1/download?file=SCW_Br19-R.zip&fileId=31512


Spanish Civil War Breguet BR.19 nationalist
http://simviation.com/1/download?file=SCW_Br19-N.zip&fileId=31513

[jinx]

Gaucho,

Will look tomorrow and get back to you. It is 4 a.m. here and time for bed...

I think I have profiles in books and can scan them also.


Nick

PS: Your trick with Gaussian Blur in a post for Gius is great. I will try it and see how I can manage.


Capatain Kurt got there before me! Great...

[gaucho_59]

Gaucho,

Will look tomorrow and get back to you. It is 4 a.m. here and time for bed...

I think I have profiles in books and can scan them also.


Nick

PS: Your trick with Gaussian Blur in a post for Gius is great. I will try it and see how I can manage.


Capatain Kurt got there before me! Great...

To both...
I've already got part of the livery...
all I need is the actual colors...
It is in layers, so I can do all kinds of things with it...

[gaucho_59]

I have started doing the wings... all in layers... need to know basic color or
camouflage... and figure out where the roundels go...
It is really shaping up fast... if you get me a profile or some pics with color
indicated... I should have it done in no time at all...

Here is the work so far:

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2808/13837655875_9e0a137544_o.jpg

[jinx]

Gaucho,

I am emailing a friend in France who will find us, I hope, the information of the camo colors and the head insignia.

I am also emailing you through FILE SEND a zip with information and French profiles of the a/c.

Meanwhile, see for yourself here:

http://www.wwiaviation.com/gallery-breguet.html


There are many Bregeut 14 profiles, click on the images of the profiles and you get a larger profile you can save.

I include an image that shows the position of the roundels. but it is not certain the camo colors are the same.
The hardest thing will be find the fat man's head insignia, but on the link above you can find many more profiles wtih different insignias.

Also, what is the page where I can find your repaint images so I can ask for some through pm?

I also believe you had done panel bmp's that were the best ever seen--what is the link?
I could do the panel.cfg's for those and we could upload them with credit to both of us.

Let me know how you do with the link above,


Nick


Nick

[gaucho_59]

Gaucho,

I am emailing a friend in France who will find us, I hope, the information of the camo colors and the head insignia.

I am also emailing you through FILE SEND a zip with information and French profiles of the a/c.

Meanwhile, see for yourself here:

http://www.wwiaviation.com/gallery-breguet.html


There are many Bregeut 14 profiles, click on the images of the profiles and you get a larger profile you can save.

I include an image that shows the position of the roundels. but it is not certain the camo colors are the same.
The hardest thing will be find the fat man's head insignia, but on the link above you can find many more profiles wtih different insignias.

Also, what is the page where I can find your repaint images so I can ask for some through pm?

I also believe you had done panel bmp's that were the best ever seen--what is the link?
I could do the panel.cfg's for those and we could upload them with credit to both of us.

Let me know how you do with the link above,


Nick


Nick

The profiles are pretty good... but remember what I told you about profile art?
If you compare those profiles to the fine pic you posted on the Breguet with the fat face
insignia... Notice how subdued the doped fabric shades over the ribs are in the photo (which
although black & white better describes the real thing) and how overdone they are in
the painted profiles... So like I said... profiles are an excellent source of information... but
one cannot use them as only source... same for the colors... sun, uv radiation, etc. DO
change them... profiles are really an artist's conception (like my work...lol)... photos are
the ONLY way... and even at that... it depends on what film was used... the blues, reds, etc.
are different between brands (Kodak, Fuji, Ansco, etc.)... and even within a brand like Kodak,
Kodakchrome slides are different from Kodak color... one for slides the other for paper photos...
I used them both in the old days... and rendered different hues for the same aircraft at an airshow...

Pardon the length and going off topic... I sent you a PM about FILE SEND... I really don't know what
it is or how to use it....

G.

[jinx]

Gaucho,

You are right of course. And modellers like me know well the different shades we get from various film types. I also used all those you mentioned in the old days.
You have a sharp eye with b&w photos. Habit I guess.

I shall install 2 other Breguets I found and see what they give re repainting them, and let you know.

More soon.

Off to send you zip through filesend.

Nick

[gaucho_59]

Gaucho,

You are right of course. And modellers like me know well the different shades we get from various film types. I also used all those you mentioned in the old days.
You have a sharp eye with b&w photos. Habit I guess.

I shall install 2 other Breguets I found and see what they give re repainting them, and let you know.

More soon.

Off to send you zip through filesend.

Nick

I responded to your PM... Here is more of the work I started on for the Breguet...
It surely is a lot better suited to mods and improvements than the LeO 45... (so much wasted effort unless I can get Baldy to revamp the model)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3769/13848324194_ddc4fffa9b_o.jpg

Of course.. the colors are tentative until I get the info from you and your French friend...
Let me know what you think...

[jinx]

Gaucho,

It looks very nice. I hope to have the colors in about an hour, straight from France...

Nick

[Captain Kurt]

Is that Emmanuel Geffroy's FS2004 Breguet XIV?

[gaucho_59]

Gaucho,

It looks very nice. I hope to have the colors in about an hour, straight from France...

Nick

Excellent! However... I just noticed... the typical tail markings on the tricolor..
(Bre 15 A or whatever...) are not going to be possible... unless someone like the
2B-4 guy can de-mirror the textures... the tail plane is also mirrored... (mirrored
camo schemes are just not right... )
quel domage people never think about doing more than one version... to
save time... mirror some important surfaces... like the LeO 45... or some P-38s
that have mirrored tail fins... [fortunately people like the B-24 guy come to the
rescue... I would like to learn to demirror textures... I mean what entries you need
in the DP file or wherever... [the painting of the de-mirrored surfaces is no big deal)

I have just finished a camouflage test:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3824/13852900933_70039705a5_o.jpg

and it is coming along so fine... pity

[gaucho_59]

here is the wings camouflage test:

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2834/13853781624_3fc14ce5ff_o.jpg

Cheers,
G.

[jinx]

Gauccho,

It looks great--the ribs on the wings look fantastic.
Can you explain how one does those ribs in Photoshop?

I telephone Roger in France, he says he knows the fat guy insignia but will let know tomorrow or the day after as he is busy at the moment. We wait then, but we shall get the information you need.

Too bad the textures are mirrored. Maybe we should ask the b-24 Guy to do it for us?

I applied your Gaussian blend layers to the Delage skin and it looks better already. I am learning fast...


More soon,

Nick

[gaucho_59]

Gauccho,

It looks great--the ribs on the wings look fantastic.
Can you explain how one does those ribs in Photoshop?

I telephone Roger in France, he says he knows the fat guy insignia but will let know tomorrow or the day after as he is busy at the moment. We wait then, but we shall get the information you need.

Too bad the textures are mirrored. Maybe we should ask the b-24 Guy to do it for us?

I applied your Gaussian blend layers to the Delage skin and it looks better already. I am learning fast...


More soon,

Nick

Excellent... that's the basic purpose of this tutorial... to get folks to experiment and be happy with results....
I don't know the B-24 guy... I think it would be worth a try... especially the texture of the fin... the stabilizers
are not that important... Acutally if he shows us how it is done... ie: the mechanism to call the de-mirrored
textures in the DP or wherever the changes are made... I know how to prepare the textures... but it only
works on a plane that has had the B-24 guy treatment... I just want to know what the input data must be and
where... the rest Kelticheart (Stefano) showed me how... but I tried to demirror another plane not treated and
just the addition of a R side is not enough... so it didn't work.... there are some changes in aircraft config file or
the DP....


I will do a quickie about fabric covered ribs... and post it...
G.

[gaucho_59]

As promised, I cooked this tutorial for you Nick... if you have any need
for clarifications... always at my thread... available... The synthetic instructions
might not be as explanatory as I think..... lol Enjoy the experience

Cheers,
G.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3793/13860399133_2eaa44128d_o.jpg

[Captain Kurt]

Guys I wish it was easy to demirror a plane, but the textures are mapped as part of the model itself. It''s more than I know how to do with my meager skills but as I understand it the model has to be de-compiled and then split down the center and the mirrored side textures re-mapped to a new bitmap. The modified file then needs to be recompiled into a new model.

Allen or the B-24 guy can tell us how it works, but I think it's a fair amount of work and not that easy to do. :sorrow:

[gaucho_59]

Guys I wish it was easy to demirror a plane, but the textures are mapped as part of the model itself. It''s more than I know how to do with my meager skills but as I understand it the model has to be de-compiled and then split down the center and the mirrored side textures re-mapped to a new bitmap. The modified file then needs to be recompiled into a new model.

Allen or the B-24 guy can tell us how it works, but I think it's a fair amount of work and not that easy to do. :sorrow:

Way out of my league.... I hope Father Time (the B-24 guy) hears my prayers...
or his only begotten son... (Allen)...

I'll keep looking on my prayer bowl....

G.

[jinx]

Gaucho,

Thanks for the tutorial. I will practice it now...

Nick

[gaucho_59]

Gaucho,

Thanks for the tutorial. I will practice it now...

Nick

Dear Nick, re: your email of this morning....

I think I used the word "clone" wrongly... what I meant was simply "copy and paste"
in other words... you create the shaded portion between two ribs... vary the transparency to suit you, and then paste it successively
to cover the wing area needed... Also, though I have Photoshop (latest, courtesy of my son)... I very seldom use it... so
your email explanation of your difficutlties sizing the clone tool... I can't really help...
copy and paste... is far easier... again, you can make the transparency with the first shade... or put them all together ... and then vary
the transparency... In PSP.. at least... there is one thing to be wary off...
To wit: if you merge a tenuous light layer to one below that is more luminous... it changes to match the lower one... so I usually place a more transparent layer
under the less translucent layer... and merge the latter onto the lighter one...
And the composite layer has both characteristics preserved... otherwise the lighter become heavier again (i.e. darker) and the effect of the two layer is lost...
sometimes I forget... and have to backtrack... I have set PSP to 500 undo operations... so it isn't a big deal to go back...

[jinx]

Gaucho,



Ok-- I will try using your explanations. Thank you.

What is the difference between 'translucent' and
transparent'?

I have PSP on disc but I am using Photoshop as I am more used to that.


Cheers


Nick

[gaucho_59]

Gaucho,



Ok-- I will try using your explanations. Thank you.

What is the difference between 'translucent' and
transparent'?

I have PSP on disc but I am using Photoshop as I am more used to that.


Cheers


Nick

What PSP do you have ... if it is less than PSP x3 it probably does not do a lot...
The terms are practically synonymous.... trans through or across
plus either appear trans-apparent or luscent bright or light transluscent...
the former speaks to more of physical appearance (like almost invisible) and the latter
to how relative luminosity... not really important... for our purposes are more or less
the same...
A lot of folks in our community use PSP 7 or 10.... Jasc... and quite primitive by present
standards... After PSP10... when Corel bought Jasc out... PSP became more in line
with the then prime mover Photoshop.... concentrating more and more in Photographic
Design applications...
PSP X4 is at the level of Photoshop and IMHO... far more user friendly...
a lot of procedures in Photoshop that require a bunch of technical steps... are very easy
to follow in PSP in a more simplified environment... of course it depends on your background..
my son Alessandro, who used Photoshop for 4 year in college at the Art Institute of Fr. Lauderdale
thinks it is extremely easy to use...
for myself.. who now barely scratch the surface when it comes to using CAD, etc. I find Photoshop
hard to master...
I sent a request to have you as a contact in Skype... so we can discuss things like I do wth Gius...
face-to-face so to speak... with quick questions and answers... here it is somewhat cumbersome
because we make fatal omissions.... LIKE MY USE OF THE WORD CLONE instead of COPY AND PASTE...
that made my explanation misleading to you...

Cheers,
G.

[jinx]

Gaucho,

Over the years I have used and installed the following in various PC setups:

Corel Painter v8.0
Photoshop 7
Adobe\Photoshop CS
Photoshop CS 8.0 and Image Ready

Broderbund The Print Shop Deluxe V20 (This one is the one used by Evan G. Butterbrodt, who has done hundreds if not over a thousand of CFS2 skins, aka Rev Evans, a friend of mine. If you type his name in the flightsim.search window, you will see his repaints..He lives in Arkansas half of the year, Texas and Florida at other times.)

Paint Shop Pro 7
Photoshop CS2 v.9.0 and Image Ready CS2 and Adobe Bridge
Photoshop CS3 Extended
At the moment I ma running:Adobe Photoshop CS5
DXTBmp (always there, in all previous PC setups and now also)


Rev's program Broderbund The Print Shop Deluxe V20 is a weird one to use, and he had said book printers use it...


By the way I managed to do the ribs--it is very easy.
I am used to Photoshop and find it easy. I had not liked the floating winodws of PSP, as I now recall.
More soon...I shall check you out on Skype.
Nick

[jinx]

Gaucho.

I have used all these over the years:

Corel Painter v8.0
Photoshop 7
Adobe\Photoshop CS
Photoshop CS 8.0 and Image Ready
Broderbund The Print Shop Deluxe V20

Paint Shop Pro 7
Photoshop CS2 v.9.0 and Image Ready CS2 and Adobe Bridge
Photoshop CS3 Extended


Adobe Photoshop CS5 (current)
DXTBmp (always there)


The last 2 is what I have now.
The program Broderbund The Print Shop Deluxe V20 is what Butterbrodt has used to make close to one thousan CFS2 skins. It is used by printers he said, I tried it, it is weird. If you use his name at flightsim.com's search window you will see all his skins....Just type "Butterbrodt".

I do not like PSP as I cannot get used to its floating windows in the workspace. I find Photoshop much easier.


I managed the ribs tutorial. It was very easy....


I will check you out on Skype...

Nick

[The B24 Guy]

Way out of my league.... I hope Father Time (the B-24 guy) hears my prayers...
or his only begotten son... (Allen)...

I'll keep looking on my prayer bowl....

G.

Hi Guys,

I took a look, but it is an FSDS1 model and I am unable to do much with them.

Regards,
B24Guy

[gaucho_59]

Hi Guys,

I took a look, but it is an FSDS1 model and I am unable to do much with them.

Regards,
B24Guy

So you don't think there is any way to "add" just a couple of inboards to that
single outboard texture... I mean the elevators...
Thanks so much for answering.... I always says.... The Lord hears one's prayers
but sometimes there is no answer... it is not because he does not listen....lol
Pitty... for it is an intriguing and quaint aircraft ... with great possibilities for
"lively" liveries... I guess still is... provided there are no numbers or letters
on the fins....

Thanks again,
G.

[gaucho_59]

So you don't think there is any way to "add" just a couple of inboards to that
single outboard texture... I mean the elevators...
Thanks so much for answering.... I always says.... The Lord hears one's prayers
but sometimes there is no answer... it is not because he does not listen....lol
Pitty... for it is an intriguing and quaint aircraft ... with great possibilities for
"lively" liveries... I guess still is... provided there are no numbers or letters
on the fins....

Thanks again,
G.

Would you be amenable to explain the procedure for "de-mirroring" beyond what textures to add...
when the model is amenable to such a change -I mean the technical part for those of us less fortunate
in technical knowledge"... like the stock CFS2 models...
thanks in advance...

G.

[jinx]

Gaucho.

Roger found the unit and the insignia colors.
I am sending you a whole folder with stuff you can use for the repaint-via email or filesend--will depend on the size.

Meanwhile see attached images.

The insignia is a head of a "bougnat"
Bougnat (pronounced [boonia] with the stress on the last syllable --a-- means:

bougnat
nom masculin (masculine)
(de charbougna, mot pseudo-auvergnat) ---from charbogna, a pseudo-Auvergnat word)
Définitions
Difficultés

Familier. Débitant de boissons et marchand de charbon, souvent d'origine auvergnate. (slang term: selller of drinks and charcoal merchant).
==========

bougnat
[buɲa]
nom masculin
in Paris, owner of a small café who also sold coal


The fellow certainly looks the part, doesn't he? A COAL MERCHANT of old times...

Nick

[jinx]

Gaucho.

Roger found the unit and the insignia colors.
I am sending you a whole folder with stuff you can use for the repaint-via email or filesend--will depend on the size.

Meanwhile see attached images.

The insignia is a head of a "bougnat"
Bougnat (pronounced [boonia] with the stress on the last syllable --a-- means:

bougnat
nom masculin (masculine)
(de charbougna, mot pseudo-auvergnat) ---from charbogna, a pseudo-Auvergnat word)
Définitions
Difficultés

Familier. Débitant de boissons et marchand de charbon, souvent d'origine auvergnate. (slang term: selller of drinks and charcoal merchant).
==========

bougnat
[buɲa]
nom masculin
in Paris, owner of a small café who also sold coal


The fellow certainly looks the part, doesn't he? A COAL MERCHANT of old times...

I also discovered that modern French aircraft still fly with this unit... Some four-engine jobs....

Nick

[Blood_Hawk23]

to do that, we would either need permission to alter the model or get the source file. if either can be done then we could de-mirror them. but its ALOT of work.

without the source file the model has to be extracted. which means all of the LODs as well (if it had them) then each model has to be cut, re mapped and then all of the animations have to be fixed. as well as the breaking parts. once that is done then it can be re assembled and tested.

its not impossible to do. Its just not easy either.

[gaucho_59]

to do that, we would either need permission to alter the model or get the source file. if either can be done then we could de-mirror them. but its ALOT of work.

without the source file the model has to be extracted. which means all of the LODs as well (if it had them) then each model has to be cut, re mapped and then all of the animations have to be fixed. as well as the breaking parts. once that is done then it can be re assembled and tested.

its not impossible to do. Its just not easy either.

I wish I had the know-how to do this... unfortunately... I am ZERO on CAD -type work...
as is... the only repaint possible is a natural metal overall... with no writing whatsoever...
or a numbe like 8... that is the same mirrored... it is really a pity because this
plane would merit a righteous repaint....

[Blood_Hawk23]

If you can get the permission from the auther to do it. I'd give it a go. but it will take time. I haven't worked less then 48 hours a week since I've gone back to work. It could be done in a few weeks if someone has the time. Allen might beable to do it in a week. If he has the time.

[gaucho_59]

to do that, we would either need permission to alter the model or get the source file. if either can be done then we could de-mirror them. but its ALOT of work.

without the source file the model has to be extracted. which means all of the LODs as well (if it had them) then each model has to be cut, re mapped and then all of the animations have to be fixed. as well as the breaking parts. once that is done then it can be re assembled and tested.

its not impossible to do. Its just not easy either.

Am I to understand that you know how to do this type of work? Because getting permission probably would not
be a problem... I think Baldy is the one who made the model... I may be wrong... but perhaps he might not have the time to
do it... but certainly would give his permission as it would make the model more popular...
we'll see....maye Jynx might come out with some idea...

Ciao for now...

PS... I can see the vogue with all these payware models... most of them are "repainter friendly" because they are done right...
However... if one has to look to that... it could be prohibitive in terms of "sheckles".... lol

[Blood_Hawk23]

if you can get the perms and the model can be extrated into Gmax then yes I'd be willing. If the model can't be extracted then we'd need the source files to work from.

Do you have a link to the download?

I could test it and see what would be needed.

[beepee]

I founded informations on the net about the Breguet BR A2 with the insigna "tête de bougnat" (see http://www.traditions-air.fr/texte/Saga_des_bougnats.htm)
7089
7090
Cheers

bepee

[Blood_Hawk23]

I have a WIP of a CFS1 BR 14 A2. I've been working on it for sometime now. but if we could get a better model then I could use it for the LODs. Eventhough the BR 19 was a little different, Smoother lines. It would save a few steps.

gaucho_59,

If you can get the Perms and help me get a model to work from then this could be a reality. I can't promise a master piece but it would work nicely. I'll grab Allen if it gets too big. (Oooh Allen, I need to talk to you. Now where is my club...)

I'll PM you my email.

[jinx]

Beepee,


Well done! Thanks...


Blood Hawk,

Bon courage and good luck--I hope Allen helps... Very nice of you to offer to improve this thing.W
What is a WPI?
I can do repaints also.

Nick

[Blood_Hawk23]

Well I may have to Shanghai him. Hence the club. Until we have a model to work with, its just an Idea.

[gaucho_59]

Beepee,


Well done! Thanks...


Blood Hawk,

Bon courage and good luck--I hope Allen helps... Very nice of you to offer to improve this thing.W
What is a WPI?
I can do repaints also.

Nick

I think it is WIP... work in progress...

[Blood_Hawk23]

gaucho_59,

which model is it that you want to do? Can you pass me the link. I have 3 versions of the BR XIV and 2 of the BR 19.

Ok if you are using the SCW BR 19 n then the model will export fine. looking at that one, it looks like it is de mirrored. The SCW BR 19 r is a corrupt model. all i get is a Level 1 LOD. Not sure what the difference is in the two models. try the MR_1 texture. I'll export it and realy look at how its mapped. I could use some shine fix but it looks good otherwise.

I'll get back to you.

Update...

The body and rudder are mapped to be De-mirrored and is textured in that way. but they are not split. so it is all mapped as one part. hence the mirrored textures. If i could get a good screen shot i'd show you what i'm talking about.

The MR texture is for the LODs and other parts. to me its a waste of a texture.

It can be fixed. It will take some time for me to do it. Allen could do it faster if he has time.

There is where it stands. If we get perms then we can move forward.

[Blood_Hawk23]

After looking at all of Carlson's models , He has different requirements for each. the BR 19's are not specific. It just stats that it must remain freeware. I don't think we can get perms from him. So this leaves us in a spot.

I'm open to suggestions. Should I proceed or not?

[jinx]

Blood Hawk,

I think you should proceed. The man has retired from FS activities, as I have sent 4-5 emails asking permission for my Delage repaints and got no answer. So I uploaded all those to two sites==8 uploads...

Go ahead.

If ever he sees the work, he will be thrilled, I think.

That is my opinion.

My repaints and all work you may do give him a few more breaths of life. in the world of fs, a few more pople to download his work....


Nick