New CFS2 Messeschmitt Me410A1 Hornisse

[Rami]

Mark,

I tested the Messerschmitt Me-410 you asked me to take into the air. I love it, but you asked me to nitpick.

So, I have some minor critiques.

1) The feature of the rearward-facing machine guns being linked to elevator position is a nice touch, but there are no muzzle flashes. Given that the muzzle flashes will always be different given the position of the elevators at any given moment, this is probably a moot point.

2) The airfile is pretty darn good...I question whether she could truly roll that well. Also, you'll want to swap out the data of the actual Messerschmitt Me-410 with the DeHavilland Mosquito for the aircraft selection screen, that way, people are not confused...
3) The panel and the VC are very good...VERY GOOD! :wavey:

[Shessi]

Rami,

Thanks for that.

Yes, I gave a lot of thought to muzzle flashes for the rear gun barbettes, but at times it would look very odd due to their angle, so left them off the DP.

Airfile is not perfect, not my forte, but good enough for the time being I think.

And thanks for spotting the info, I had been tweaking so much, I had changed it on the Fs9 version but not the CFS2 one!

Cheers

Shessi

[kelticheart]

May I nose in? :kilroy:

This demonstrates synchronicity is a fact of life, I just installed VB's Me410A in my Italian post-armistice install, on account of what I just read about 15th USAAF ops in this theatre.

Crews debriefings report that 15th USAAF B-24s and B-17s on route to Germany were routinely attacked by Me410s on both sides of the Alps. Apparently, Me410A-equipped Luftwaffe units operated from Northern Italian bases as well.

Shessi, I used the flight model you uploaded in the past for VB's Me410A and I agree with Rami the aircraft flies extremely well. I dressed it with your -U1 repaint, I gather the version used must have been the "bomber destroyer" -U1 variant, equipped with the twin 20 mm cannon pack under the nose and AA rocket launchers under the wings.

Being VB's model rather old (I only know of another Me410A model, built by Kazunori Ito for FS8, not multi-res i.e. framerate heavy), it's going to be quite a project trying to animate the tail defence fuselage barbettes in unison with the elevators as Rami would like. I agree, the 2d panel attached above is splendid! :encouragement:

If you need an airfile with Me410 historical info and performance data I can attach it here, I already changed the "Mosquito" stuff in there. Could your -U1 repaint be correct for a Me410 operating from Italy?

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[Rami]

Stefano,

These 410s were also heavily involved in the air battles of 1944 over the Reich. The 20th Fighter Group took them on regularly. I was using the Bf-110g-2 as a substitute. Now, I don't have to! I agree, synchronicity is a wonderful thing!

[CrisGer]

wow great work. yes indeed those planes and units were indeed dedicated to trying to stop the flow of bombers over the alps and they did fierce work in tough conditions. Nice to see that important plane so well modelled.

[kelticheart]

Hi Rami and Shessi,

here's a small contribution to your project: new prop blurred discs for VB's Me410 and the airfile updated with historical tech notes from "Jane's Fighting Aircrafts of WWII".

A preview of the Hornisse props over Achim's Ferrara, which I just completed and attached to the thread where I posted the other scenery reworks.

Shessi, let me correct my yesterday typos, my brain was not working right: I meant the A-1/U-2 repaint you did, included in the 3-skin upload of yours and pictured below.

Enjoy!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[Shessi]

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/soh_ftp/uploads/imageuploads/714413947397801869.jpg
A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 2 Aircraft - German

Description: A CFS2 model of a Messerschmitt Me410A1 Hornisse by Chris Lampard and Shessi.

A brand new multi-LOD model, with many animations including Leading edge slats, bomb bay, dive brakes, gun barbettes of the Luftwaffe Me410A1Hornisse (Hornet) 'schnell-bomber'. Also with a new skin texture by Chris and a new 2D panel texture by gaucho_59.

Included is a dp for two sets of internal bombs and nose armament.

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit CFS2 Messerschmitt Me410A1 Hornisse.zip (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?linkid=18257&catid=54)
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

[Shessi]

Just uploaded a new CFS2 version of an Me410A1 by Chris Lampard and myself.

Chris did a superb job of the external model, he put in some great animations, which really bring it to life, along with an excellent exterior texture set. I added the interior, crew, VC, multi-LODs and panel, with gaucho_59's very nice 2d panel texture.

My first interior and VC, learnt a lot, and took some time to do! As I said over on the Fs2004 forum, those that build and do the whole package are something else!

Cheers

Shessi

[misson]

A big thank u to those peoples working on this , I have a full collection of alied planes but this is lacking in my axis colection. And as it was said before , it was heavy involved in the war as sucesor of the Me210 which had a poor behavior . My wish would be , to count with some missions with that type of rare planes like others. But iis no easy to get truly info , to avoid what if missions. (may u Andrew can surprise us one more time:mixed-smiley-010:)
Thank you again!
Cheers
Mario

[Sarg Willy]

Attention !! All hands on deck ,
Thank you all ,

outstanding quality , supurb detail !

[Roxane-21]

It looks so great !!! :jump:

Too bad I will have to wait 5 more months before trying it... :banghead:

[Rami]

Shessi,

Many thanks for this...this is an important opponent for the 20th Fighter Group, heavily involved in the air battles over the Reich! :adoration:

[kelticheart]

Shessi,

Many thanks for this...this is an important opponent for the 20th Fighter Group, heavily involved in the air battles over the Reich!


:stupid:....I had not realised you were working on a newer model and not the old VB's Hornisse.....my props weren't needed.

What's amazing is that this model is FS9 native and compatible for CFS2 with no need for a conversion procedure!

Shessi, I truly didn't have to wait a lot for another one of your splendid addons!!



THANK YOU!!!

:applause: :applause:

Happy St. Paddy's weekend!

Sláinte!
KH :very_drunk:

[Blood_Hawk23]

That looks outstanding. Ok Shessi, Tell Chris he is hired. We want more. Those FS2004 models do look great in CFS2.

To all my Irish friends, and to all my friends that aren't. Happy St. Patricks Day.

Beware the Green Beer...:guinness:

[kelticheart]

.....Beware the Green Beer...

Yes John, ...YECCHH!!! to that. Waaay much better this :icon29: and this :guinness:...so :ireland: Erin go bragh!

:ernaehrung004:
KH

[ElsnerMarkus]

Nice Plane :)

[dvslats]

Beautiful job Shessi and Chris. :applause:

Thank You!

5446

[ElsnerMarkus]

5449

Very Nice Plane, tested in Pearl Harbour Second Wave Mission :-)

[Shessi]

Kelti,
Mamma-mia!...I do wonder what drugs you are on sometimes!? :dizzy:..ha ha!

I made two models, one for Fs9 and one specifically for CFS2, so THAT's the reason why it's spot-on for CFS2, and you don't have convert it or do anything!...otherwise we'd have all the usual conversion problems of CTD's (g_lightstates, crash-detection), the controls set to one side in the VC. Do you really think I'd forget us ol' boys in the senior sim? ;)

Make sure you have the CFS2 model.

And I wondered what you were talking about VB planes and re-paints???? And by all means if you come up with alternative prop texs, then please, the more the better.

Cheers

Shessi

[miamieagle]

Great job. Thank you very much!:applause:

[dvslats]

For those of you that may have found it difficult to stay on the runway during take off because of no ground steering I have attached a aircraft .cfg file which will cure this.

Dave :very_drunk:

[Captain Kurt]

It's so great to see a new native CFS2 model again. Thank you guys! :encouragement:

[mav]

It's so great to see a new native CFS2 model again. Thank you guys! :encouragement:

you can say that again...

Thx Shessi, job well done!!! :applause:


CheerZ mav

[Captain Kurt]

Just a note on the markings - this aircraft as marked was an A-3 photo-reconnaissance aircraft used by 2.(Fernaufklärung) F/122 flying from Sardinian and other Mediterranian bases. To represent a fighter or fighter bomber it will need a new livery, but I will bet that will not be long in appearing.

[Shessi]

Ha ha! That's just typical, concentrate on the detailed things and miss the bleeding obvious ones!!

I never really gave it a thought as Chris had already done the tex, and being very nice I didn't cross check it.

As you say hopefully there will be a load of new skins forthcoming....and CK....you what to do next?! ;)

Cheers

Shessi

[Captain Kurt]

Yep, it's really easy to look at something so many times that you stop truly seeing it. I'm fully involved in the Deadalus Team Fw190 upgrade projects right now and even after all the time we've been working on the 190's I keep finding little things I've over looked. When we get that done I'll be getting back to finishing the 82nd Fighter Group Campaign I've been working on. So it won't be me doing the new 410 skins, but I'll bet UncleTgt or Morton won't be able to resist for long.

I did paint some new VB Me210 skins which will be part of the 82nd FG Campaign but of course that model is not up to the standard of the new 410.

557055715572

[Shessi]

They look pretty good to me.

Even though I made the new 410 very FR friendly for CFS2, the VB ac, with a wee bit more detail, could be used as AI.

Cheers

Shessi

[Rami]

Shessi,

I may see about trying to see if I can put pylons on the girl for wing rockets, so she can torment the "Dicke Autos." :a1310:

[kelticheart]

Kelti,
Mamma-mia!...I do wonder what drugs you are on sometimes!? .....


Oh my, ......:dejection:..... I oughta stop replying to threads on the fly at the office, while thinking to several other things contemporarily since I'm at work!

In the last three weeks I kept replying quite poorly, but don't worry, no drugs here my friend, only ageing and few glasses of good vino. Both can have their effect too! :very_drunk:

OK, I assumed the first pack you released was good for both simulators because I read quickly the readme and I saw "for FS9 and CFS2". I didn't have the time to try it in CFS2, but I imagine what it would have happened. As soon as I saw your CFS2 version posted I felt, once again, more than a little....:stupid:

Then a quick search here

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/soh_ftp/thumbs/9/4/4/38641341921726.jpg

revealed my last boboo: Watchdog22 did the repaints for VB's model.

If I am correct now, in WD22's repaint pack you and Obio worked on the dp file to add a ventral 20mm twin gun pod and a 50mm cannon, turning VB's model respectively into an A1/U2 and an A1/U4 bomber hunters.
The skin of the three repaint pack, I am using in my Italian front, is of WD22's A1/U2 flown by 1/KG 51, Beauvais, France 1944. It's hardly correct for an Hornisse flying this side of the Alps.

Over the weekend, I did adapt a new set of blurred prop disc textures to your new Me410, I can upload them soon.

Are you planning to make U2-U4 versions of this splendid model as well, via the same dp gun additions? If not I might try to give it a shot, so that I can have a new great looking bomber zerstorer to fly together with VB's model as AI wing mates, as you suggested. It would be necessary to have two aircraft installed, since the muzzle flashes of the additional ventral weapons would look quite bizarre when flying the plane in the original schnell-bomber configuration.

Knowing how accurate you are, I wouldn't be surprised to see a dedicated A1/U2-U4 fighter version soon!

Cheers and thank you again to both you and Chris, for devoting an extra effort to breathe new life into CFS2!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[mav]

Knowing how accurate you are, I wouldn't be surprised to see a dedicated A1/U2-U4 fighter version soon!




or 1 with a cannon. :encouragement:

[Shessi]

Hi Kelti,
That did make me laugh, my friend...:biggrin-new:

Sending emails or comments too quickly can have it's side effects, I know I've been there!

Right, as you say, I'd like to do another couple of versions of the 410, there were so many weapon configurations, that I'm going to have think about what to do. Of course most of that can be added with a DP in CFS2, but a photo recon version with a bulged bomb bay or the BK5 armed A2/U4 may be needed?

Cheers

Shessi

p.s Mav, didn't see your reply, thanks...and I'll get the cannon in the right position!

[mav]

p.s Mav, didn't see your reply, thanks...and I'll get the cannon in the right position!

Don't think i've ever seen one like that... look forward to it!! :biggrin-new:

[kelticheart]

Hi Kelti,
That did make me laugh, my friend...:biggrin-new: :wavey:


.....but a photo recon version with a bulged bomb bay or the BK5 armed A2/U4 may be needed?

Anything that might spark your interest in developing will be more than welcome here! I am sure Rami would love (and yours truly as well!) an A1/U2 or even an A1/U4 bomber Zerstorers to insert in his elaborate campaigns.

Thanks to BeePee and The B24Guy, who both gifted me with the links of some great downloadable books which I greedily grabbed, printed and bound here at the office, I am increasing my knowledge of both 8th and 15th USAAF B-24 units operations from the very beginning of their ETO-MTO deployment. It's an emotional reading, even if I knew already of the great sacrifices suffered by all airmen, I want to stress of all nations involved, during WWII.

What's interesting is the bomber crews' accounts of the type of Luftwaffe fighter planes attacking them, the Me410 Hornisse being mentioned very often from mid-1944 onwards.

It's up to you, depending upon how much work is involved for you. As a suggestion, I would consider building first the most diffused variants, which would cover the widest operation areas. Then, providing the effort to devoted to a hobby doesn't become too much :02.47-tranquillity:, the remaining variants such as the BK5 50mm cannon-armed /U4, which wasn't as diffused as the others.

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[jinx]

Hello,

I can do a repaint if you sent me the images on which you want it based.
Pm me on that.

I have always loved the looks of the 410 and I would like to add more weapons on it, but I do not know how.

Nick

[miamieagle]

Great work.

Thank you:very_drunk:

[miamieagle]

Great work!


Thank you:very_drunk:

[watchdog22]

I love the plane, thanks guys. I am working on textures and modifying DP's that I worked up for the VB 410. WIP screen shot

[Shessi]

Very nice W22,

Here's something to think about as well.....;)

Cheers

Shessi

[jinx]

Shessi,

The new models look great.

Can't wait.


Nick:redfire::very_drunk::untroubled:

[watchdog22]

Hi Shessi, that's great! Saves me the frustration of DP juggling.

[misson]

Very nice W22,

Here's something to think about as well.....;)

Cheers

ShessiThank u Shessi for the effort! and I´m impresed with the efect caused by a new plane.:encouragement:

[kelticheart]

....Here's something to think about as well.....

:applause: :applause: :applause:

WD22:

Great skin!.....:-D

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[beepee]

Thank you again for your superb bird.

I replace your original DP by a one I tweaked from the Alpha Beaufighter Mk VI.
I also
-added guns tube in the front part ...
- made changes in the air file (scrap points and auto pilot) to get the bird flying without "bounces" with the AP.
See my new DP below
5890

If find it is worthwile for your bird, feel free to use the Dp and air files included in the zip files below

5891


Cheers
Beepee

[kelticheart]

Thank you again for your superb bird.

I replace your original DP by a one I tweaked from the Alpha Beaufighter Mk VI.
I also
-added guns tube in the front part ...
- made changes in the air file (scrap points and auto pilot) to get the bird flying without "bounces" with the AP.
See my new DP below


If find it is worthwile for your bird, feel free to use the Dp and air files included in the zip files below

Cheers
Beepee

Thank you, Beepee! :applause:

The dolphining effect flying with the AP was so bad, and unexpected, that I nearly crashed the first time I used it. :hopelessness:

Thank goodness I had enough altitude, because the plane went into a vertical dive and I wasn't able to slow it down at first. The dive brakes do not work on this plane, since the spoiler key activates the bomb bay animation, while the dive brakes are keyed to the arrestor hook, which has no drag. I switched the engines off and lowered the undercarriage to slow her down, until the elevators were freed by the compressibility lock.

Once I regained some control, I noticed something I would have never expected. In my popup engine control window, I inserted trim gauges and the elevator trim was all the way down to the bottom! A quick reset of the elevator trim tab to a normal setting allowed full control of the aircraft again.

I wonder what might have sent the elevator trim to the bottom of the dial, I swear I never saw anything like this before! :cower:

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[bearcat241]

Once I regained some control, I noticed something I would have never expected. In my popup engine control window, I inserted trim gauges and the elevator trim was all the way down to the bottom! A quick reset of the elevator trim tab to a normal setting allowed full control of the aircraft again. I wonder what might have sent the elevator trim to the bottom of the dial, I swear I never saw anything like this before!


You may have also noticed many times after disengaging AP in other models you have to reset trim to some slight degree to get the right "feel" back. That's because, as in real aircraft, autopilot flight controls and the trim systems work in sync to keep an aircraft in a programmed regimen. The AP computer basically uses the flight controls and trim to fly the plane, just as the pilot would. Hence, if the autopilot's internal settings are severely screwed up to produce wild effects, it stands to reason that the trim settings will also be in some odd positions once the AP relinquishes control back to the pilot.

[kelticheart]

You may have also noticed many times after disengaging AP in other models you have to reset trim to some slight degree to get the right "feel" back. That's because, as in real aircraft, autopilot flight controls and the trim systems work in sync to keep an aircraft in a programmed regimen. The AP computer basically uses the flight controls and trim to fly the plane, just as the pilot would. Hence, if the autopilot's internal settings are severely screwed up to produce wild effects, it stands to reason that the trim settings will also be in some odd positions once the AP relinquishes control back to the pilot.

It makes a lot of sense, thanks, Bearcat! Indeed yes, after switching off AP I always have to reset trim adjustments.

Obviously: AP makes fine adjustments to the aircrafts flight attitude via trim tabs. When my Me410 started porpoising (...and not dolphining...:rolleyes:) up and down, increasing the amplitude of the swing each time, it must have sent the AP berserk, trying frantically to compensate.
When I switched AP off, the automatic trim tab adjustments had reached the bottom of the dial. Simple. :stupid:

Let me ask you one more tech question, BC. I had that happening with other aircrafts while flying with the AP, not as dramatic as this time, yet bothersome, because I could not obtain a level flight attitude. I would like to fix it:



is it an incorrect CoG location in the aircraft.cfg that plays against a normal AP operation?
Would small forward/backward adjustments of the CoG location (in the order of 0.5 units each time) help curing the problem?
Did it ever happen to you that an aircraft reached a perfect trimmed "hands off" attitude and then started porpoising under AP control? (I saw this happening, too:dizzy:!)


Thank you!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[jinx]

KC,

I have had weird Autopilots in fs2004 too. In that sim I tried giving them air files from other similar aircraft but it did not work. My conclusion from that was that it is not the airfile toblame but something in the a/c cfg...

In those fs9 instances, some of the a/c flew crazil under AP, turning all the time and losing height. Much wilder than this porpoising with the cfs2 Hornisse, which at least keeps course steady but is only unsteady in pitch.


Nick

[bearcat241]

I've never really thought about fiddling with the CoG before to correct the oscillations. I just change the first entry (*Unknown) in the 1199 record *Autopilot/Secondary Aerodynamics to a higher max speed value from the default. Most air files have a defo of 300. I use something like 400 for props and 800 for jets. Sometimes i just copy/replace the entire 1199 record from a good AP performer into the offending air file.

So KH, you asked, "Did it ever happen to you that an aircraft reached a perfect trimmed "hands off" attitude and then started porpoising under AP control?". Yes, i've seen this too and my common solution is the above. In rare, extreme occasions where this doesn't help, i find that the basic mach effect tables in the records range of 401-519 for the flight controls are either set to simulate extreme degrading performance as mach speed increases or they're just dead wrong. Some minor surgery here may be required, but this area is not for the faint of heart...:dizzy:LOL. Always start this work with a very good AP performer as a comparative baseline.

Another thing is the type of AP gauge being used and the manner in which the player programs them. I find that the old WW2 vintage AP gauges leave something to be desired in smooth control and trim management. They look appropriate for the era aircraft being flown, but cause unpleasant effects at max cruise speeds. I routinely step out of the box of authenticity and use more modern gauges like the Lear 45 AP and a few others. They allow me to set the programming FIRST before actually engaging the "ON" switch, not the reverse, which sometimes leads to the bad behavior. Also, many advanced air files are set by defo to automatically use "Flight Director" in direct conjunction with the AP. This is a major culprit for the weird feel after disengaging AP. So, regardless if you allow this setting as ACTIVE or not, make sure you have an FD switch/button near your AP switch so that when you disengage the AP, you can likewise turn off FD. The FS Concorde gauges, the Mooney Bravo and i believe the King Air have an FD switch in their gauge packages.

[beepee]

I made a new set of air, cfg and dp files for the bird
I test them and everything seems now OK with the AP.
You will have to change the 3 files in your AC folder
It fixes the porpoising and also the rudder shudder visible in the external view that Worthless noticed in the thread "ME 410 Porpoising in autopilot"

Try them and tell me if they solve your problems

5913

Cheers
Beepee

[Worthless]

Many thanks but no success.

Sorry to say, I've still got AP issues. The first fix you provided corrected the vertical (ie: porpoising ) oscillation but the rudder shutter remained. The second fix caused a drift to port before I even engaged the AP. This drift could not be corrected by trimming the aircraft. Engaging the AP had the same rudder shutter effect as before.

[kelticheart]

I've never really thought about fiddling with the CoG before to correct the oscillations. I just change the first entry (*Unknown) in the 1199 record *Autopilot/Secondary Aerodynamics to a higher max speed value from the default. Most air files have a defo of 300. I use something like 400 for props and 800 for jets. Sometimes i just copy/replace the entire 1199 record from a good AP performer into the offending air file.

So KH, you asked, "Did it ever happen to you that an aircraft reached a perfect trimmed "hands off" attitude and then started porpoising under AP control?". Yes, i've seen this too and my common solution is the above. In rare, extreme occasions where this doesn't help, i find that the basic mach effect tables in the records range of 401-519 for the flight controls are either set to simulate extreme degrading performance as mach speed increases or they're just dead wrong. Some minor surgery here may be required, but this area is not for the faint of heart...:dizzy:LOL. Always start this work with a very good AP performer as a comparative baseline.

Another thing is the type of AP gauge being used and the manner in which the player programs them. I find that the old WW2 vintage AP gauges leave something to be desired in smooth control and trim management. They look appropriate for the era aircraft being flown, but cause unpleasant effects at max cruise speeds. I routinely step out of the box of authenticity and use more modern gauges like the Lear 45 AP and a few others. They allow me to set the programming FIRST before actually engaging the "ON" switch, not the reverse, which sometimes leads to the bad behavior. Also, many advanced air files are set by defo to automatically use "Flight Director" in direct conjunction with the AP. This is a major culprit for the weird feel after disengaging AP. So, regardless if you allow this setting as ACTIVE or not, make sure you have an FD switch/button near your AP switch so that when you disengage the AP, you can likewise turn off FD. The FS Concorde gauges, the Mooney Bravo and i believe the King Air have an FD switch in their gauge packages.

Thanks, BC!

I use WWII vintage PBJ_AP.gau in my NDB gauges popup window. There are few of them exactly the same, but with different filenames, included in various addon packs. I use the same gauge translated into German on all of my Lutwaffe birds.

I always try to reach desired course, altitude, cruise speed and trimming before engaging the AP. I only use course, altitude and speed dials as they did in WWII, anytime I need adjustments I switch the AP off, adjust to need and switch it on again.

On the majority of my aircrafts it works fine, both multi-engined and single-engined, on some of them it doesn't. While I find it very useful during bomb runs, I don't use it very often while flying fighters, considering not too many of them had the leisure of AP back then. Mustang pilots would have loved an AP during their long escort missions over ETO and PTO!

I'll experiment with airfile record #1199 as you suggested! :encouragement:

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004: