Malaysia Airlines B777 contact lost

[Navtech]

The authorities have begun a search and rescue for Malaysia Airlines (MAS) flight MH370 after the Beijing-bound plane lost contact with air traffic controllers this morning, the airline said today.
MAS said flight MH370 lost contact with Subang Air Traffic Control at 2.40am.
The B777-200 aircraft left the Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 12.41am and was expected to land in Beijing at 6.30am.

"The flight was carrying 227 passengers (including two infants), 12 crew members," the airline said in a statement.
"Malaysia Airlines is currently working with the authorities who have activated their search and rescue team to locate the aircraft," it added. – March 8, 2014.

[Blackbird686]

Sounds like a possible hijacking... the thugs make their way onto the flight deck and the first thing they do is tell the pilot to turn the transponder and the radios off. The other thing might be a complete electrical and hydraulic failure... but the odds of BOTH of those things happening together are somewhat rare.

At any rate... I hope they find the jet, and all who were on board to be OK.

BB686

[Terry]

The Vietnamese air force spotted a couple oil slicks which they think may be the spot it went down.

[ViperPilot2]

Until more concrete evidence (wreckage, etc.) is found and/ or identified, personally I would take any media reports with a grain of salt. The local media in Malaysia, Vietnam and China are basically stepping on top of themselves, releasing erroneous information. One Malaysian outlet initially reported that the airplane landed in China, which was quickly redacted. Another one reported that a USAF unit in Thailand picked up a radio transmission from the airplane, declaring an emergency due to "disintegration of the fuselage", also unconfirmed. All Chinese authorities are saying is that the airplane is "missing", and that it did not land in China. Vietnamese officials say they have discovered an 'oil slick' off the SW Coast, then moved the location much closer to the Malaysian coastline.

All we can do is wait, and keep the pax and crew in our thoughts.

5166

[StormILM]

Austria's Foreign Ministry has reported that someone who boarded the plane was using a passport stolen from an Austrian citizen(tourist) in Thailand two years ago. Whether that person was a possible terrorist or not remains to be seen but it's certainly suspicious.

[Tim-HH]

The captain of that flight was also an avid flightsimmer: http://www.sharelor.net/1/post/2014/03/tribute-who-exactly-is-malaysia-airlines-captain-zaharie-shah-of-mh370.html

Really a sad story.

Greetings
Tim

[mrogers]

Austria's Foreign Ministry has reported that someone who boarded the plane was using a passport stolen from an Austrian citizen(tourist) in Thailand two years ago. Whether that person was a possible terrorist or not remains to be seen but it's certainly suspicious.


There was not one but two stolen passports on that plane. The owners were at home. It certainly does sounds suspicious along with the plane's sudden disappearance.
I flew home on a 777-200 from London last year, also have been on a 777-300 as well. These planes have had a very good safety record for many years.

[StormILM]

There was not one but two stolen passports on that plane. The owners were at home. It certainly does sounds suspicious along with the plane's sudden disappearance.
I flew home on a 777-200 from London last year, also have been on a 777-300 as well. These planes have had a very good safety record for many years.

I heard that not long after I made my previous post. That's very indicative of a coordinated effort of some sorts but until the exact crash site is located and FDR/CVR's are recovered, we won't know what went on in the flight deck or with the aircraft in general. If I had to guess, I'd say the infiltrators were bomb-laden and set them off. The aircraft did change direction as if they were reversing course but the lack of MAYDAY radio call and no 7500/7600/7700 Squawk means whatever it was, it was sudden. Scary!

[Blackbird686]

The latest I heard is that there were 2 stolen passports. I still smell a rat here... and INTERPOL states that not one country ran any kind of verification check on any of those three passports in question, thus allowing those particular individuals to board the jet without incident. If it is in fact a hijacking... there is a possibility that the hijackers could have forced the plane to crash in the ocean. But even so, there would be some kind of debris floating about at the location determined as to have had an "oil slick" as earlier reported by the Vietnamese Air Force. JMO...

Latest info here: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/09/malaysia-airlines-loses-contact-with-plane-carrying-23-people/

BB686

[aeromed202]

So as of today, there are two passengers of interest, no debris yet, the oil slick was apparently from normal shipping, and now the plane might have continued flying hundreds of miles from last contact. Makes me think back to fighter pilots defecting, dropping low and heading for another country to call home. It's far fetched but one might hold out hope for a better than tragic closure to this missing plane story.

[mirage3]

So, i think that the B777 is exploded on the air :banghead: because its impossible lost radar-contact with an aircraft if it not explode. The US-Navy has expedioned (i m not sure of the model) a destroyer of the Arleigh Burke class? :confused: or a Oliver Hazard Perry frigate. I m very sad for all the parents of the flight attendants and passengers and i hope that all are alive!

[Ferry_vO]

Although ATC lost the aircraft, military radar detected it heading in a different direction; http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/11/major-updates-in-malaysia-airlines-mystery-new-information-could-change-everything/

[lefty]

Can't work this one out at all. The two 'harmless' Iranians with the stolen passports apparently only wanted to get to Europe to find a better life.

So they pick a flight to Beijing ???

[Dev One]

Shades of the Cyprus accident - loss of cabin pressure/hypoxia?
Keith

[PRB]

This is so bizarre. And trying to learn anything by watching the news is actually counter productive, because the “news readers” can't translate what they get from “experts” into coherent sentences. So, this ACARS data. Do all 777s transmit this data, regardless of the carrier? IOW can, say, Malaysia Air Lines buy a 777 from Boeing with the stipulation that ACARS reporting not be included? Where, exactly, does ACARS data go? The airline? The engine manufacturer? Both? Anyone else? Can somebody call them and ask them? Now we hear that “US sources suspect the plane could have flown for hours after it lost contact with ATC”. Well, duh, of course. But we get insinuations that this tidbit is “somehow related” to the ACARS system. Ok, CNN, Fox News, etc., are you saying that “somebody” has ACARS data to support this? Who? No answer. We do know that the USN is sending ships to the Indian Ocean to look. That's interesting, after all the back and forth about “it turned west”, “no, it didn't”, “yes, it did”. Now CNN is reporting that somebody has determined that “communications” and “data” systems were turned off separately. How do we know this? And what “data” system? IFF? We already knew that. Radios? Can you tell when the radios were turned off? I suspect not. The guy on CNN trying to explain this bit of info spent half his time talking about the cockpit voice recording system. Good grief. I shouldn't be surprised, I guess. I do hope they find this plane. It's a big ocean out there, even in 2014....

[StormILM]

I agree, each day the story gets more & more bizarre. The ACARS is totally autonomous so the crew cannot switch it off even by a breaker pull. It doesn't transmit/receive constantly, only events/checkpoints during the flight being normal or abnormal. The transmission/reception of the ACARS is not seamless throughout the globe, there are many deadspots but the data will save and then transmit its log when a coms link becomes active. I think there's more to this than is being said in that our Military and Intelligence apparatus having capability that it does has evidence that wasn't tracked by routine means used by ATC and other tracking technologies. I am certain there was a deliberate hand involved at turning this aircraft off course and to wherever it is now.

[Great Ozzie]

Ok, CNN, Fox News, etc., are you saying that “somebody” has ACARS data to support this? Who? No answer.

Hi Paul,

I believe this came from a report in the Wall Street Journal.

[Great Ozzie]

Ok, CNN, Fox News, etc., are you saying that “somebody” has ACARS data to support this? Who? No answer.

Hi Paul,

I believe this came from a report in the Wall Street Journal.

Edit:

Yeah, check this out:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282

[Great Ozzie]

Ok, CNN, Fox News, etc., are you saying that “somebody” has ACARS data to support this? Who? No answer.

Hi Paul,

I believe this came from (based on) a report in the Wall Street Journal.

Edit:

Yeah, check this out:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282

[Great Ozzie]

Ok, CNN, Fox News, etc., are you saying that “somebody” has ACARS data to support this? Who? No answer.

Hi Paul,

I believe this came from (based on) a report in the Wall Street Journal.

Edit:

Yeah, check this out:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282

also this one:

http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702304185104579437573396580350-lMyQjAxMTA0MDEwMzExNDMyWj

[Great Ozzie]

double post???

Dang... I need a mod to clean this up... dunno what happened (besides being a noob).

Sry btw.

[Blackbird686]

Now there is speculation that the plane was stolen... to be used as a bomb later. It's just speculation on the part of some investigators, but it confirms my suspicion all along that the plane was hijacked (stolen), and diverted away from its intended course. Also the theory that the plane ascended to 45,000 feet, then descended to about 27,000 feet seems to me that the intent was to eliminate all on board, (de-compression)... but still, NO ONE KNOWS. How the bloody hell does one loose an aircraft as big as a Boeing 777? Well Malaysia Airlines did, so I reckon it's possible to do.

Full Story Here: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/17/lawmaker-missing-airliner-may-have-landed-in-southeast-asia-for-use-as-weapon/

BB686

[stansdds]

I never bought into the story of the aircraft turning south or southwest and flying for 7 hours so the aircraft could be crashed into the ocean, that simply makes no sense. It is far more logical and the body of the evidence, at least what little is available and being released by the government of Malaysia, that the aircraft was turned northwest and flow over land. Maybe it is somewhere in China, but it might be in Iran. The purpose? Could be someone wanted the electronics geniuses who were on the aircraft. These guys were working on systems that would make aircraft pretty much disappear from tracking systems. Converting the aircraft into a flying bomb is also a distinct possibility.

[stiz]

How the bloody hell does one loose an aircraft as big as a Boeing 777?


planes are only big when on the ground, put them into the sky and they suddenly get VERY small

[SSI01]

If you want to make a statement by hijacking a jet and finally crashing it with pax aboard, why do it anonymously? It's been over a week now and no serious or reputable public statement or claim has been made about who did it.

Malaysia has for years said they do not tolerate Muslim extremism in their country - this incident may nullify that position. These pilots were employees of a state-owned airline - IOW state employees - which legally speaking makes the state responsible for the deaths. Interesting position.

If you remove the baggage and pax from the aircraft and fully fuel it - or at least fuel it so it can reach, on a one-way flight, the target of your choice - this aircraft should be able to operate from a rather remote location with a runway shorter than normally required to launch it. What is the fuel tankage for a B777-200, and how many fuel tank trucks would be required to fill it?

Damage to landing gear on takeoff is of no real importance if you're not planning on landing it again - so there is another reason why it could be operated from a more remote, less-prepared airstrip.

If this thing has been coverted into the world's largest cruise missile, there is one logical target well within range - Israel. The IAF can not conduct an intercept over Jordanian or Saudi Arabian airspace, so visual identification would happen so shortly before impact on an Israeli target as to be superfluous. Why would you completely circle Israel to come in from the sea? A low-level approach over Jordan or Saudi Arabia, or a masked approach using ID from a legitimate airline is a likelihood. AA missile defenses would bear the brunt of the defense for Israel. They will have commercial air traffic ID veritifcation procedures in place and published through NOTAMs. To not follow them to the letter could have very serious consequences.

The thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is - what cargo would this aircraft be carrying if it were to be used again?

[von Bek]

I have a theory of my own.

I think whoever stole the plane was after something on it and they had to land it to retrieve the goods. My thought is Banda Aceh which is an odd and remote place but has a runway big enough. Once you've touched down and removed the goods, the plane and everything else is just evidence you need to dispose of.

Very logical to take off and let the plane proceed out into the southern ocean at low level until it runs out of fuel.

[Curtis P40]

5633
Maybe they flew here...

[Tim-HH]

For me this is the most believable theory: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Greetings
Tim

[mike_cyul]

For me this is the most believable theory: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Greetings
Tim

As a firm believer in Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor), I think a scenario something like this is also the most likely.


Mike

[Navtech]

Maybe something hot .....



<code>http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-20/raaf-en-route-to-possible-debris-from-mh370-in-indian-ocean/5334314</code>
http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/5334826-4x3-940x705.jpg

Prime Minister Tony Abbott told Parliament this afternoon that he had spoken with his Malaysian counterpart but warned the objects might not be related to the search.
However, Mr Young says the satellite images are the most promising lead authorities have.

[n4gix]

Much to do has been made about how "hard" it is to disable the ACARS. According to the T7's FCOM, it is so difficult that it actually takes six keystrokes on the FMC to turn off ACARS... :pop4:

[fliger747]

Even easier, pull the satcom circuit breaker on the overhead panel. Other comments about the need to program the FMC to turn the plane. Actually easy as any flight simmer would know.... Heading select and turn the knob!

a lot of info not being released, for instance how much fuel was on the plane? The flight planned fuel would be known, even if tank wring, and he fuel vendor receipts and log would be available. Fuel is expensive in China, so tankering might be a likely scenario. I would be surprised if the plane at its weight could get to FL450, a loss of control there would be likely and result in a great altitude loss. Having flown at this altitude numerous times, even at lighter weights, you really are close to coffin corner.

T

[robert41]

A question for Tom (fliger747). Is it possible for the transponder to go off, mechanical/electrical failure, and the flight crew does not realise that it is off?

[skyhawka4m]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhSmYAvugU

[n4gix]

Sheesh! What a waste of five minutes. Just another crackpot conspiracy theorist. :banghead:

[Naismith]

Sheesh! What a waste of five minutes. Just another crackpot conspiracy theorist. :banghead:

You saved me suffering it though, Tx1 :applause:

[Blackbird686]

Unless they recover the black box (Flight Data Recorder)... folks will theorize about what happened. My thing... stay away from the Network News, as these reports are often inaccurate and incomplete.

BB686

[Warhawk1130]

Something to consider that no one has mentioned...the plane was only loaded with enough fuel to fly a few thousand miles. How far can you fly it below 10,000 feet? At lower altitudes, aircraft burn fuel very rapidly. Especially very heavy ones.