OH_B-24J_Liberator by The B24 Guy and Allen!

[Rami]

The B24 Guy,

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I am having real problems using your Overhauled Liberator in formations for the 20th Fighter Group. The lead bomber had a bad habit of oscillating several hundred feet at bombing altitude, and this then gets the other bombers to follow. I've separated the bombers by 1,000 feet altitude, but this doesn't cure the problem. AI escort flights and bomber formations are ramming into these bombers at an unsustainable rate.

This was also a problem with the FDG B-17 a while back, but I believe that Captain Kurt and Pen32Win traced these problems to FS9 elements which were left in the .air file. Now she files steady as a rock.

Here are those modified B-17 files if you need something to compare it to: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=47&id=2391

How can this problem be corrected?

Thanks in advance,

[Rami]

Hey,

Oglivie suggested trying to adjust the 1101 Primary Aerodynamics section for pitch oscillation, suggesting it was set to "0." The number listed was 3,583, near the "target" Oglivie suggested of 3,800.

Interestingly, when Pen32Win did the fix for the B-17s, that number is now listed as "0." :dizzy::kilroy:

[Oglivie]

Oh well...Sorry for the confusion, that's my middle name most of time though, 'Confusion' .

I did change that value though in some of my air files to correct oscilation, but also just found other changes were made including Pitch Stability, Pitch Trim, and more in the pitch section.

[Oglivie]

Here's some data I have, it's for a B-24 though but same principle for all sim aircraft:

If my memory serves me the data in the lower window corrected the oscilation. However not sure now if the
Pitch Momement due to AoA rate changed had much to do with the oscilation.

[Oglivie]

The Pitch Stability of -52301 does not look right in your B-17 airs. Heck, the A6M2 Zero is at -39000 and the P-38 around -60000.

[Rami]

Oglivie,

Pen32Win corrected the airfiles in the FDG B-17 mod package...they fly nice and stable. :saturn:

[bearcat241]

Would using the stable stock B-24's air file provide a solution? It's practically the foundation of the overhauled model, so dimensions are identical. The Malinowski/McDaniel B-24 and PB4Y models are pretty stable also.

[The B24 Guy]

Hi All,

I thought the airfile was fairley stable. I will have to check it out.
Are the bombers under attack?

Oglivie's idea is the place to look.
Or you could use the B-17 airfile that pen32win moded and see if that fixes them.

Regards,
B24Guy

[Rami]

Hi All,

I thought the airfile was fairley stable. I will have to check it out.
Are the bombers under attack?

Oglivie's idea is the place to look.
Or you could use the B-17 airfile that pen32win moded and see if that fixes them.

Regards,
B24Guy

The B24 Guy,

No, they do it in general flight. I use diamond and box formations.

[Ettico]

Rami,

Do not use the stock B-24 airfile. The stocker has the same problem.

I fixed the problem in the OH version, but I don't recall how I did it. It's likely that I substituted the KM B-24 airfile, but I'm not sure.

I do notice that I have the empty weight cg at 0,0,0 (same as KM) in the aircraft.cfg file. It's something like -6.5,0,0 in the stocker.

[Allen]

Stock B-24D has empty_weight_CG_position = 6.5, 0, 0 // (feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from specified datum

[Blood_Hawk23]

a word of caution when trying to correct stability issues.

If you do to much you could stop the AI from engaging targets. unless this isn't important.

[Allen]

Give this one a try.

I put the aircraft.cfg back to stock but for the empty_weight_CG_position has been set to all "0"s since with the stock settings the aircraft wants to dive down badly with a player flying. I added needed things like [exits] [flaps.0] [LIGHTS] and set the [Views] to the right spot.

In the .air under 1011 Primary Aerodynamic I changed the *Cm_adot Pitch Moment - AoA Rate from 0 to 20000, *Cm_de Pitch Moment - Elevator (Control) from -2800 to -1800 and *Cm_q Pitch Moment - Pitch Rate (Damping) from -33000 to -63000


In my quick test set up I set the B-24s to box formation. One formation of 8 B-24s at 24,000 feet and the other formation of 8 B-24s at 24,500 feet. I followed for 20 miles and saw no movement.

1644

[Rami]

Allen,

Thank you! I'll try to test this later tonight, but I am going to have a tough time getting to a computer today.

[Allen]

I'm not 100% sure it will work but it did for me.

[Rami]

Allen,

I'm still having the same problem. I adjusted the weight slightly to 36,500 lbs (the dry weight of the B-24 "J" model) and it's still affecting the lead aircraft. Once that aircraft starts moving, they all eventually follow in kind.

[The B24 Guy]

Hi Rami,

Finally got a chance to test the B24.

I set up a mission to attack an airfield with 48 planes.

They flew in nice and level droped there bombs made a turn.

I checked the airfile and its the same one included in the upload.

Try changing the CFG file and increase elevator_effectiveness to 1.5 or 2 and the pitch_stability to 1.5 or 2.

Regards,

B24Guy

[Rami]

Hi Rami,

Finally got a chance to test the B24.

I set up a mission to attack an airfield with 48 planes.

They flew in nice and level droped there bombs made a turn.

I checked the airfile and its the same one included in the upload.

Try changing the CFG file and increase elevator_effectiveness to 1.5 or 2 and the pitch_stability to 1.5 or 2.

Regards,

B24Guy

The B24 Guy,

Here is a video of the B-24 in formation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fObVqRTGuoQ&feature=youtu.be

I have also attached the files I'm using. Maybe I screwed something up.

Please excuse the audio...I was listening to Bill Maher's "New Rules," and didn't realize the audio got picked up. Oops!

[Allen]

Can you attach a mission to test with (and neeed weapons)? Also maybe it has to do with the bomb load?

[Rami]

Allen,

Here is the mission I'm testing it with...and I'm just using the standard AI bombs, which The B24 Guy used in his .dp file...payloads one and two.

http://dev.simviation.com/download-file?file=b24d_bombs.zip&fileId=32750

You don't want to use other bomb loads because the AI only drops one. That's why the AI bombs were invented in the first place...so you get the full effect of a full load drop, getting around the limitations of the sim.

[The B24 Guy]

Hi Rami,

Your confg and airfile are different than mine.
Try this set.

Regards,
B24Guy

[Allen]

The B24 Guy did not use AI bombs in the OH B-24D. I re-downloaded it to make sure since I use stock weapons for the most part. The OH B-24D uses Guns Only, Bombs Heavy *8 1000lbs*, Bombs Medium *16 500lbs*, Bombs Light *16 250lbs) and Bombs 250lb (2 Salvos) *each Salvo is 16 250lb bombs when droped by the player*

So the DP you have is not the OH B-24D DP. Also the airfile and aircraft.cfg you sent me dose have the lead aircraft oscillate. Even if I fly it and use the auto pilot with Alt Hold it will oscillate at first than smooth out.

I'm attaching my whole OH B-24 that is not oscillating with a new name (B24D_LIBERATOR_TEST folder name and B-24D Liberator TEST in-game. I added the AI bombs (2X_HAL_AI_Bombs) to the OH B-24D DP as a 6th payload. Try using this aircraft since maybe something about yours is messing things up.

1800

[Rami]

Allen and The B24 Guy,

Okay, wait a minute here. Scratching head. Someone did this mod to the .dp file, but I can't remember who. Is it the payload that is messing things up?

[Rami]

Hey guys,

This is really frustrating me. Let's come back to it after Christmas, before this turns me into a Grinch. Thanks for all the help!

[Blood_Hawk23]

Rami,

Is this a player aircraft or an AI?

I thought we were talking about an AI. but everything that seems to be going on is for a Player. changing the Aircraft.cfg wont help the AI.

sorry I'm just a little confused is all.

[Milton Shupe]

Interesting discussion.

I downloaded the aircraft package and found generally it is a pretty well handling flight model.

Looking at AFSD, I noticed CoG is at the wing's leading edge reading a -1.xx where it should be 25% MAC.

Also the fuel tanks are placed well behind CoG, cruise attitude was very positive, and htail incidence a bit negative.

Flying straight and level seemed easy enough though.

So, I set about adjust CoG, Fuel weight, and adjusted slightly the htail incidence.

This moved CoG back to ~25%, give a more correct looking cruise attitude, and improved in-flight stability.

I will finish up tweaks and testing later today.

If anyone would like to try the flight model to see if it responds any better, I will attach it here.

The only thing I cannot test is the effect of the added DP weight (if that gets added), but I did not change anything that would affect offsets for the dp file.

[Rami]

Blood_Hawk23,

Okay, that's a fair question. The problem may not be with the aircraft, it may be with my tweaking abilities. What I am essentially trying to do is use The B24 Guy's Liberator and modify her to specifications for the "J" model. This includes correcting engine and fuel data, as well as the aircraft weight.

The dry weight for the B-24D is 32,000 lbs. For the B-24j, It is 36,500 lbs. I made the adjustment in both the aircraft.cfg, and the 1101 (Primary aerodynamics) section of the airfile.

I verified and/or modified the engine data, including manifold pressure maximums, compression ratios, RPM, displacement, and number of cylinders.

I used the altered .dp file to ensure that you can use AI bombs to get maximum destructive power.

The trouble is, every time I get the numbers right, the video happens. It's something I'm doing, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what.

And to answer your question, it's being used as AI. For the Battle for Europe mission / Tidal Wave mission / Operation Juggler mission, I use the K. Malinowski B-24D or J, manually editing the mission so that the only one using it is the player aircraft, all other aircraft in your flight and the other formations use The B24 Guy's OH model.

The D version performs flawlessly. :encouragement:

[Oglivie]

Rami,

Perhaps these may work okay for you.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?49151-B-24-amp-PB4Y-Air-Files-for-CFS2

I'm not sure if the engine manifold pressure, RPM and compresson are accurate for the J in this DL. However, the files were tuned for max airspeed at altitude and service ceiling for the various Malinowski B-24/PB4Y aircraft and my testing did not show pitch oscilation. Maybe they may work for your campaign?

Added Edit:

I forgot to mention that the fuel is also adjusted for the individual versions based on the publications I have. I don't recall the difference between the B-24J and H versions, but the performance and fuel specs I have for both versions are the same.

[Rami]

Rami,

Perhaps these may work okay for you.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?49151-B-24-amp-PB4Y-Air-Files-for-CFS2

I'm not sure if the engine manifold pressure, RPM and compresson are accurate for the J in this DL. However, the files were tuned for max airspeed at altitude and service ceiling for the various Malinowski B-24/PB4Y aircraft and my testing did not show pitch oscilation. Maybe they may work for your campaign?

Added Edit:

I forgot to mention that the fuel is also adjusted for the individual versions based on the publications of have.

Oglivie,

They can, but I'm trying to see if I can get the OH model working to my liking, because it is more FPS friendly.

I'll sure look at them, though. Thanks! :triumphant:

[Oglivie]

Rami,

I have a few suggestions for the DL that may work for the OH. Just maybe it may work if you want to check it out.

For the OH, The Air file maybe okay as is from the DownLoad, but the air cfg of course would not work for the OH without some modification.

For the OH air cfg; the [flight_tuning], [piston_engine], [propeller] and Moments of Inertia in the [WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE] sections (seems I maybe forgetting something else though) should be changed to the same specs as in the DL air cfg sections. Those air cfg sections are of course tuned to the DL Air file.

Best Regards

[Allen]

Okay so the B-24D I posted is working fine but when you try to change it into a B-24J thing go to hell in a hand basket?

[Blood_Hawk23]

if you have all of the info correct in the .air file, we can make a new cfg from the airfile.

all i have to do is open it up in FSedit and it will make the cfg from the airfile data. once that is done all i'll have to do is copy it to the cfg. FS2002 like to add too much info to the CFGs. hence the copy and paste.

from that we can see the difference between the original and the modified versions.

have you checked the MOI at all. there will be differences if the dry weight is increased.

I'll play with it tonite and see what i get.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Here is the CFG strait from the airfile that Rami posted. I've done nothing to it. but maybe we can see if there is a difference in it. the MOIs will be low but thats fine. its the other dynamics that are of interest.

I'll post it for someone else to look at and figure out. 1823

let me know what you find.

[Oglivie]

a word of caution when trying to correct stability issues.

If you do to much you could stop the AI from engaging targets. unless this isn't important.

I do not know if it may effect level bombing or glide bombing as much, but it may. I had stability settings fairly stiff in the DL B-24/PB4Y files. I tested them in MB for the formation's flight chacteristics and did not test them in a bomb run attack. I know for dive bombing the stability becomes much more of an issue, but I'm not entirely sure about level and glide bombing.

I think Milton has an air setup that will work perhaps in his post.

Here's some info I collected from previous threads. It's mostly posts by Talon I think. Some probably already have this info, but for those that don't I'll repost it here:

Quote

MOI settings that are true to life can cause an AI to auger in because the sim cannot pull it out a dive. It's also the single largest reason that AIs will refuse to deliver bombs or weapons on a target.....because the sim knows it cannot pull the aircraft out of the dive.

Experienced the same thing....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon
I've found that the Nell,Betty and B-25 won't drop bombs doing anti ship attacks but the Avenger and Kate will.If a ship is an infrastucture they all attack with full bomb loads.

Talon

...playing with the B-26B and the TU-2. If I got them to drop torpedoes and bombs on anti-ship missions, they would not fire rockets....until I changed the category. Then they would fire rockets, but would not deliver torpedoes.
When the category is setup for a level bomber, they will drop bombs on an anti-ship mission, but not on the moving ship.....only on the point the ship occupied at the beginning of the mission. As in your experience, they would accurately bomb infrastructure ships.
Still the mystery remains as to why aircraft of the same family and category fail to react uniformly to a change in category....i.e. having to also change the AIR file in some to get the desired results, while not in others. There is something we are missing in the AIR or CFG files with respect to this.

Family=2, Category=2 on B-24 & B-25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon
If you set category to 10 and family to 2 and come in at a low alt.(1500ft or less)they will drop all bombs and glide attack even with enemy aircraft around.

Talon
Looking at the list of Families and Categories in my earlier post, changing Family to 2 and Category to 2 or 10 might be all that is necessary to fix the bombers.


I've tried category 2 with no success but 10 worked fine for me.

Talon

[Blood_Hawk23]

MOIs - My observations.
The MOIs play a large part in the AIs handling abilities. If you think of it in terms of weight when pulled in a direction then the less you have the easier it is. Simple...

What I have found is, if you lower the MOI, then the AI will start to exceed the limits of the flight dynamics. They will stall in a climb. They will roll and side slip (of sorts). However if you go too low they will hang in the air. Almost like there is no gravity. Or they won't make a tight turn. I've also seen them having trouble climbing or maintaining altitude. Which is wierd. It probably has to do with physics. Who knows.

Normally they can handle 1/2 to 1/4 less of the players MOI values. Below 1/4 is where things get wierd. At some point you can't go any lower. If you were to enter 0's for the values then it may not act any different then the lowest value that it started. I have not entered 0's but i've gone to less then 100 for the MOI.

These are only my observations from changing the MOIs.

Ok I'll get back on topic now...

[Allen]

I did quick look over of the airfile Rami has back on page 2. I'm not sure if it was based on the CFS2 B-24D or the old CFS1 B-24J but it is missing a number of data lines (20 or more).

I'm attahing a new B-24 set up as J model. I fixed the manifold pressure that was lower from what I could find in B-24 manuals, added WEP that will boost manifold pressure up to 53 and HP up to 1350. The only fuel data I could find was 2364 gals in the main tanks and 425 gals in the wings. (AI dosn't use any fuel data as I did test by shifting the fuel way forward and way left so it can change it if needed)

1830

[The B24 Guy]

Hi Rami and All,

The airfiles I included in the upload were made to try to be the best for both player and AI.

The AI will both takeoff and land. They are not as "real" as they could be, but they feel ok for me when flying.


Regards,
B24Guy

[Rami]

Allen,

Many thanks, my friend. The "test" version is quite suitable. There is ever so slight oscillation, but it's less than fifty feet either way and not enough to cause any problems, even in close quarters. This will be the version I will use for my late Europe works.

Now, to both you and The B24 Guy....can I either include this with my campaigns, or can Allen upload this modification / variant to SOH for general use?

I am forever in your debts for assisting me with this, I know I can be a bit fastidious at times. :ernaehrung004: :medals: :smiley_simmons:

[Allen]

I saw no oscillation but I wasn't using auto pilot or any thing like that so if they are moving it is not a lot of movement. Test Repot: I used the Auto Pilot with Alt Hold and still no movement with the the attached Test B-24J as I tucked my self right behind and under the lead aircraft (Robin Hood).

I know both still have the OH parts but you can use the Airacraft.cfg and airfile from both as you need. The other parts you will need to ask The B24 Guy about.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Allen, Rami,

What realism settings are you flying under? if either of you have different settings then you won't see the same thing. You probably already knew that.

[Allen]

Realism setting won't effect the AI flying.

[Oglivie]

I'm glad to read that the AI are flying better! I checked Allen's test zip last night and the formation appeared to do very well from my own observations. I really haven't had enough time to check everyone's solutions, but whatever is working satisfactory is good news.

:applause:

Best Regards,
O

[Rami]

Allen,

As I thanked you for, the AI are now stable and not crashing into themselves or the escort fighters. That's good enough for me. Hopefully, getting full permissions is the next step for an upload.

[Allen]

Part of the oscillation looks like the crew added by use of station_load.# I re-did the B-24D with the empty weight from the 1% (34187 lbs) added the crew and a extra station_load.# so the GoG of the aircraft didn't change. After all of that the B-24D was still 1000 lbs lighter than the one I posted but when I take off and Slew up to them and the lead aircraft it now has an oscillation.

The oscillation I don't think is too bad and quickly stops before it effects the other. The much heaver B-24J the oscillation effect is much more. Drop of 18 to 36 feet, maybe more soon as as I drop out of Slew mode. It dose seem to effect the others slightly and the oscillation effect dose stop.

I don't think the AI can quickly calculate how to keep the plane level with all of the station_load.#'s. None of the stock aircraft use more than one station_load.#. (yes I know ther may be 2 station_load.# shown in some aircraft but they both use station_load.0= so I don't think the 2nd is used)

[Allen]

Here is a small revise of both. I added *Cm_de(q) Elevator Deflection (Moment) Factor vs q and Cl_da(q) Ailerons Deflection (Moment) Factor vs q in both airfiles. Made my own DP for both. The payload is the same as before. I also set the ceiling to 30,000 feet for the B-24J in the airfile and DP.

[Rami]

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/soh_ftp/uploads/imageuploads/955913882813288867.jpg
A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 2 Aircraft - American

Description: This is a conversion of The B24 Guy's overhauled B-24 model to a "J" series configuration. The modifications have been done by Allen and The B24 Guy, and is being uploaded with their full permission. This overhauled MS-model file also includes:

A new propeller and spinner. A modified interior with virtual cockpit and working gauges. New gunners and cowl flaps.
De-mirrored Textures. There are also lots of small fixes and add-ons.

A revised .dp which includes numerous loadouts, including AI bombs.

Enjoy,

The B24Guy

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit OH_B-24J_Liberator.zip (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?linkid=17896&catid=52)
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

[Rami]

Allen and The B24 Guy,

Many thanks for your work helping me with this when my original effort failed, I really appreciate this!

[gius]

Hi guys,

Beautiful file, but i've a question: the real B-24J didn't have an hydraulic defensive turret on forward instead of glassed nose?? Or I'm wrong? Can you explain me this question? What version of the B-24 is reproduced?

Thank you,

Gius

[Allen]

It does but there is no B-24J made that has a multi LOD model. So right now the only thing you can do is use the stock/OH model B-24D as place holder.

[Rami]

Allen,

What about your gun turrets and a paint job?

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=17&id=17461

[Allen]

Little more work than that to make it work. Idea taken from the 2 B-25 hard nose .bgl add-ons.

1997

[Allen]

Some more work. It looks like I'm going to need to see if some one can scasm edit off the old nose so I can attach the new one by DP and BGL or add my new one in place by scasm edit after the old one is cut off.


20122013

[gius]

GREAT WORK!!!!
All my encouragement.
Gius

[beepee]

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/soh_ftp/uploads/imageuploads/955913882813288867.jpg
A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 2 Aircraft - American

Description: This is a conversion of The B24 Guy's overhauled B-24 model to a "J" series configuration. The modifications have been done by Allen and The B24 Guy, and is being uploaded with their full permission. This overhauled MS-model file also includes:

A new propeller and spinner. A modified interior with virtual cockpit and working gauges. New gunners and cowl flaps.
De-mirrored Textures. There are also lots of small fixes and add-ons.

A revised .dp which includes numerous loadouts, including AI bombs.

Enjoy,

The B24Guy

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit OH_B-24J_Liberator.zip (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?linkid=17896&catid=52)
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.


Thank you Allen and the B24 Guy for this super revised and tunned model.
This bird flies perfectly and the loadouts are fine.
Spécial exhaust effects made by KH for the OH B-24D Liberator fits her perfectly

A happy new year to all of you

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Grabbed it... great work guys!

[Allen]

Alright Rami this has be so close you can taste it.

205920582057

I cut the nose in by use of alpha to cut out all of the old B-24D nose but for the pilots, guns and some parts of the interior and glass. It works okay in game but for some small flickering but the privew window things go badly.

2060

I'm not super happy with the polygoun count. The 1500 count is much more than I would like but I may be able to get the number down some than LODs could take care of the rest.

[Rami]

Allen,

My apologies for not responding for a couple of days. This really looks great! How close to completion, do you think? If you need extra time, take it!

[Worthless]

And "WOW" again. I never cease to be amazed at the talent in this group. SOH forever, Indeed.

[Allen]

Allen,

My apologies for not responding for a couple of days. This really looks great! How close to completion, do you think? If you need extra time, take it!

I abandoned the nose idea and it is now a full blown gMax project. I already have asked and gotten permission to liberate the virtual cockpit and related panel as well as the more detailed turrets. The main exterior is done and interior the same as the OH but I may try to do some more details later on.

I'm working on the first LOD now.

[kelticheart]

Isn't it amazing how wonderful projects can shape up from simple tuneup requests as this one? SOH forever!

Great job you guys, especially you Allen! :jump: :applause:

A STOCK B-24J: think of all the repaint opportunities and all of the fps improvements, together with historically correct looks for all of those ETO missions!

WOW! WOW! WOW! :triumphant:

Thank you!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[gius]

GREAT WORK Allen,
you are filling a big gap in Cfs2!!!
Regards and thanks,
Gius

[Allen]

Well I just about got the full B-24J model done. I've had to spend the last 2 days ironing out some sloppy textue maping I did.

2445
2446
2447

[Rami]

Hey guys,

I sent Allen a message saying that the oscillation problems are now fixed. I want to thank him publically as well for his work, as well as The B24 Guy's selflessness, in allowing this project to go forward.

So thank you Allen, for all of your efforts on this! :medals: :triumphant:

[bub]

I'll second that, Rami. Here, here.
Bub

[Worthless]

Met too. Great work Allen. I am continuously astounded at the superb additions that keep appearing for CFS2. It takes a lot of dedication and talent. I congratulate you all.

[misson]

Thank you Allen for your hard work!

Cheers!
Mario

[The B24 Guy]

Hi All,

Allen was kind enough to send me one to test. You all are going to love it.
I think I will have to ask Allen if I can use some of his parts and do an upgrade on the D model.

Regards,
B24Guy

[Allen]

Your welcome to take any thing you wish.

[Allen]

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/soh_ftp/uploads/imageuploads/869713895018869096.jpg
A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 2 Aircraft - American

Description: This rebuild of the stock B-24D Liberator converts the Liberator to Model "J". The B24 Guy was kind enough to let me use the OverHauled B-24D turrets and Virtual Cockpit. Come with most of the bells and whistles like animated parts and breaking parts. Model is Multi LOD use damage texture logics as well.

Comes with 3 textures (Olive drab, Desert and Bare metal) Skin templates are included in the textue folders for your painting pleasure. You will need a program that can read .PSD to use them.

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit B-24J Liberator.zip (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?linkid=17947&catid=52)
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

[Shadow Wolf 07]

A new addition to my hangar... thank you! :applause:

[Sarg Willy]

A harty Thankyou Allen and B-24 guy ,

[arfyhun]

Nice one fellows,

Graham.

[Allen]

Sorry about not doing skins that have any markings but at least I got every theater of war covered and I'm sure some one can do some with markings.

[Worthless]

First Class, Allen and B24Guy. This is a superb addition to CFS2. Looks great, flies great....and in a short little test from 15,000 ft. it plastered an oil refinery. You guys get and A+.

[kelticheart]

Sorry about not doing skins that have any markings but at least I got every theater of war covered and I'm sure some one can do some with markings.


JUST WHAT WAS MISSING FROM CFS2 TO COVER LATE-WAR OPS!!!

A zillion thanks, Allen and The B-24Guy for breathing yet more life in the senior sim!!!

:applause: :encouragement: :applause:


Fine choice Allen for the skins, no worries, I am sure several repaint veterans around here will take their spray paint equipment out of storage!

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[stuart277]

To the B24Guy and Allen
Very nice work. Thanks for your efforts on this one.:applause:
Cheers
Stuart

[beepee]

To the B24Guy and Allen
Very nice work. Thanks for your efforts on this one.:applause:
Cheers
Stuart
Very nice work. Thanks for your work on this AC
Wonderfull job
Thanks a lot.:applause:
Cheers

[Captain Kurt]

Nice job guys. :encouragement:

[kelticheart]

Hi Allen,

may I respectfully ask a question about the B-24J?

I installed it yesterday and I thought it derived from The B24Guy's overhaul effort on the stock D variant. Apparently, it comes directly from the stock model. :apologetic:
I don't understand why, after all the pain The B24Guy went through to turn the stock AI Liberator into something more acceptable and pleasing from the pilot's point of view, we returned with this new J variant to:



ugly stock propeller blades
different prop disc than the overhauled models (probably stock, I haven't investigated about it yet)
cowl flap animation lost, as in the stock AI model


Overhauling the stock B-24D took The B24Guy a very long time, this model was the last he released and he did release it almost three years after the last overhaul job he did, completing the stock aircraft collection. The attached shows the new handsome prop blades in the B-24D and the working cowl flaps, compared to the J. I could live without the cowl flaps, but....

...The stock prop blades look really bad, besides, as shown in the attached shots, the J blurred prop discs do not fit my alternative B-24D prop textures I uploaded here twice, once in the stock prop discs update last year and once only last week, included with my "Hail Columbia" B-24D repaint. It means the J has a different disc size than the standard overhauled models done by The B24Guy.
In fact, the J disc outline is polygonal instead of round. It demonstrates the disc I painted is too wide and my alpha texture overlaps the disc contained in this plane *.mdl. The stock prop discs are indeed smaller than the better ones designed by The B24Guy.

The below shots are posted overhauled D first, followed by the overhauled J.

Please, let's not take this as "rivet counting", because it is not. Let's say instead that, for the time CFS2 came out, 1999 average computer technology did not allow anything better than the rough looking AI models. It was a deliberate, and correct for that purpose, MS' commercial choice to ensure the application would have run even on older, low-end machines.
Now, 15 years later, to me it's only slightly disappointing having to step back instead of forward, accepting again old visual compromises thus losing improvements already done previously.

With all of the above said, I did not mean any destructive criticism, I sincerely hope it will not be taken a such, and I renew my deepest thanks for Allen's volunteer hard work, freely and generously shared with the rest of the community. :medals: :adoration:

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[Allen]

I made the model from the stock B-24D model in gMax. I only used the OverHauled B-24 turrets and Virtual Cockpit.

So yes it has the stock stock propeller blades. No the OH and stock use the same prop disc but the OH texture changes the look of the prop disc. You can copy the prop_US_b24.bmp into the B-24J texture folder name it prop_US.bmp than the prop disc will look the same.

Cowl flaps are not likely to happen... They have to be done by key animation. Key animations means I have to set Closed and Open points by hand and because of MS is unable to make any thing the same I would likely have to do Cowl flaps animations for at lest 2 engines by hand and if the cloning dosn't mirror the animations I would have to do the Cowl flaps animations for at all 4 engines by hand.

[kelticheart]

.... I would likely have to do Cowl flaps animations for at lest 2 engines by hand and if the cloning dosn't mirror the animations I would have to do the Cowl flaps animations for at all 4 engines by hand...

Absolutely not worth the time to do such a petty detail by hand! Forget about it, please.

After all, this model will be employed by most more as an AI plane than a player's aircraft. I would have liked to see The B24Guy/Dbolt's propellers on your creation, it's not just a matter of sheer texture, which I tried out already and it shows in the above shots. It's only that I found the stock prop blades utterly ugly since the very beginning of CFS2 life.

I remember returning home after buying CFS2 with such an anticipation that took me back to when I was a kid, when I was bringing home a new model kit and my heart was racing with emotion. Both for the economic effort I had to endure and for imagining how beautiful the finished model would have looked like. The Corsair picture on the box promised the same Jane's simulator unprecedented visual quality, unequalled up to that point, and the raising quality of CFS1 free addons on the web made me expect a lot.

When I installed it, at the time under Win98SE, and saw the Free Flight selection window, on one hand I was very pleased of the liveries, albeit generic, and the realistic weathering applied to them, but I was appalled at the roughness of the model details. Stock sceneries were just great, a quantum leap from CFS1 visual display.
Sure, as I said before, the stock design ensures great animation rate devoting more processor power to better sceneries and large displays of flying aircrafts, but the prop blades were the ugliest thing I had seen in various flight sims of the era, combat and civilian.

The B24Guy surely had to sweat a lot to replace them, but it was one of the primary things he did. The overhauled stockers almost look as different models equipped with realistic props, so I rest my case.

Then again, who cares how propeller blades look like when busy "watching one's six" and only a blurred, transparent disc to look through?

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[Allen]

It took an few hours of work but I got the cowl flaps added and made my own more detailed still prop and new alpha for the prop disks. I will have to ask The B24 Guy for permission to use the cowl flaps.


2726

[Blood_Hawk23]

That looks Great Allen.

[kelticheart]

It took an few hours of work but I got the cowl flaps added and made my own more detailed still prop and new alpha for the prop disks. I will have to ask The B24 Guy for permission to use the cowl flaps.

Allen, sincerely, you shouldn't have gone through this extra effort after all the work you did already!

But, since you were so kind to do it....



THANK YOU!!!!
:loyal: :applause: :medals:



I am in debt with you, I'll start today working a gauge-controlled exh effect for your B-24J. BTW: the shot you posted looks wonderful, a 100% improvement from CFS2 stock looks! Your prop blades design is simply great, if you have in mind future projects you should not leave them out and always include your new propeller.

Given the results of your update, I am also sure The B24Guy won't have any problem with using his cowl flaps animation!

Cheers!
KH :ernaehrung004:

[Allen]

Okay kelticheart I updated the download with the new things.

[TARPSBird]

Allen, you've done a super job with the B-24J. I couldn't get the plane airborne flying from Midway with a full bomb load so I substituted the .air file from The B-24 Guy's OH B-24D and that fixed it. Might have just been my flying skills, or lack there of. :untroubled:

[Allen]

At 100 MPH pull back and by 120-125MPH you should be off the runway.

[TARPSBird]

Thanks Allen, will try again with the original .air file.

[gius]

Thank you Allen,
excellent work!!:applause::applause: